So, I'm in a departmental meeting today when the Director whips out this really neat printed document that shows how the new health insurance stuff is going to work. It's essentially this series of lines connecting a ton of tiny little boxes to one huge box in the center of the page. The huge box is labeled The Hub.
Inside The Hub is a list of 50 entities who are required by federal law now to submit ALL of their information to a central database for collection, including, but not limited to, IRS, SSN, Insurance companies, Employers, Banks, etc. By all, I mean your payment receipts from work, your insurance coverage (life, health, auto, etc), any income from other entities other than your employment, where you live, what you drive, etc.
This was all part of the Obamacare legislation in order to better facilitate the application process for subsidized health insurance. Basically, the application is filled out online, it's sent through The Hub to verify the information, and then forwarded on - with a Yeah or Nay response - to the insurance company. Pretty snazzy, right? Well, yes and no.
The Hub will also be used to verify your tax returns, your legal status in the US, where you are living at any given time (it's required to be updated by the states through drivers' licenses and state IDs), whether or not you have car insurance, etc.
It is, effectively, Big Brother come to life.
Was this mentioned anywhere at all when the whole Obamacare thing came out? :unsure:
What is the justification for even gathering some of that information in the context of health insurance?
Apparently in December both WSJ and USA Today were all about that. I also found this infographic.
http://www.cchfreedom.org/files/files/TheObamacareHub.pdf
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324478304578173753228248438.html
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2012/12/06/column-potential-obamacare-privacy-nightmare/1752211/
USA Today talks about how no one really knows about this.
Yep. "Private"information like marital status and legal address can no longer be kept from the Evol Gubmint and the pernicious US Postal Service! :ph34r:
This is all so the One World Government can use their Black Drones more efficiently to promote Big Brother.
Quote from: dps on February 26, 2013, 01:41:45 PM
What is the justification for even gathering some of that information in the context of health insurance?
Well, in order to qualify for the subsidized insurance, the government feels that it has to verify your income, residency, whether or not you smoke, etc. To do so, they've stated that we must go through The Hub with each applicant. Given that every applicant - whether they're applying for subsidizing their premiums or not - are ELIGIBLE to apply, they must all go through the system.
This is also a convenient way to make sure that those applying for Medicaid benefits aren't lying (since employers are required to submit their information), those filing their taxes aren't lying (W-2s and paycheck stubs must be submitted), etc.
Quote from: grumbler on February 26, 2013, 01:58:22 PM
Yep. "Private"information like marital status and legal address can no longer be kept from the Evol Gubmint and the pernicious US Postal Service! :ph34r:
This is all so the One World Government can use their Black Drones more efficiently to promote Big Brother.
Not really any of their business, is it?
Quote from: grumbler on February 26, 2013, 01:58:22 PM
This is all so the One World Government can use their Black Drones more efficiently to promote Big Brother.
Why does black always have to be used to connote evil? <_<
Quote from: grumbler on February 26, 2013, 01:58:22 PM
Yep. "Private"information like marital status and legal address can no longer be kept from the Evol Gubmint and the pernicious US Postal Service! :ph34r:
This is all so the One World Government can use their Black Drones more efficiently to promote Big Brother.
Actually, since when is marital status and legal address not private? One doesn't have to claim either if they don't choose to, but now, with so many different entities submitting their information, those things can be sussed out whether you want them to be or not.
I don't have to have a state ID, which means that I don't have to have a legal address on file. Yet now, even having a job will mean that the feds will have that information in a central place that other government - and private - entities have access to.
Meri, you have to provide your address and marital status when you file your taxes. Hell, you have to file your "marital status" with the state when you get married - after all it is the state which determines whether you are married or not!
"Privacy" has an entirely different connotation when it comes to government. The government will automatically have access to all kinds of private information about people. The response is not to limit the government's access to that information, but rather to ensure that there are suitable institutional controls to make sure that private information is not released to anyone who should not get access to it.
Quote from: Barrister on February 26, 2013, 02:21:54 PM
Meri, you have to provide your address and marital status when you file your taxes. Hell, you have to file your "marital status" with the state when you get married - after all it is the state which determines whether you are married or not!
"Privacy" has an entirely different connotation when it comes to government. The government will automatically have access to all kinds of private information about people. The response is not to limit the government's access to that information, but rather to ensure that there are suitable institutional controls to make sure that private information is not released to anyone who should not get access to it.
You don't haveto file txes if you meet the minimum requirements. And marital status is a state thing, not a fed thing, so no, you don't HAVE to supply that info.
But you're right, it's more about making sure there are controls in place. However, if no one knows about this Hub, how are we supposed to guarantee that there are controls in place? That is my point, more than anything.
Quote from: merithyn on February 26, 2013, 01:36:19 PM
Inside The Hub is a list of 50 entities who are required by federal law now to submit ALL of their information to a central database for collection, including, but not limited to, IRS, SSN, Insurance companies, Employers, Banks, etc. By all, I mean your payment receipts from work, your insurance coverage (life, health, auto, etc), any income from other entities other than your employment, where you live, what you drive, etc.
None of which, at first glance, were ever prohibited from having it--or already having it--in the first place.
Quote from: merithyn on February 26, 2013, 02:25:13 PM
But you're right, it's more about making sure there are controls in place. However, if no one knows about this Hub, how are we supposed to guarantee that there are controls in place? That is my point, more than anything.
Well it is a much better point than "but the government has no right to this info".
Quote from: Barrister on February 26, 2013, 02:29:05 PM
Quote from: merithyn on February 26, 2013, 02:25:13 PM
But you're right, it's more about making sure there are controls in place. However, if no one knows about this Hub, how are we supposed to guarantee that there are controls in place? That is my point, more than anything.
Well it is a much better point than "but the government has no right to this info".
I'm sorry. Did I say that? I don't remember it if I did.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 26, 2013, 02:27:34 PM
Quote from: merithyn on February 26, 2013, 01:36:19 PM
Inside The Hub is a list of 50 entities who are required by federal law now to submit ALL of their information to a central database for collection, including, but not limited to, IRS, SSN, Insurance companies, Employers, Banks, etc. By all, I mean your payment receipts from work, your insurance coverage (life, health, auto, etc), any income from other entities other than your employment, where you live, what you drive, etc.
None of which, at first glance, were ever prohibited from having it--or already having it--in the first place.
Insurance coverage - life included - is regularly shared with the fed government? That seems odd.
Quote from: garbon on February 26, 2013, 02:00:52 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 26, 2013, 01:58:22 PM
This is all so the One World Government can use their Black Drones more efficiently to promote Big Brother.
Why does black always have to be used to connote evil? <_<
Back boxes help to save lives by improving aircraft safety and the little black dress has a lot of fans. :)
Don't governments need a certain amount of information about us, in the general and the specific so it can determine what services are needed where, when and the how via tax ?
Quote from: mongers on February 26, 2013, 02:44:30 PM
Back boxes help to save lives by improving aircraft safety and the little black dress has a lot of fans. :)
Black boxes <= why don't they build planes out of them then?
Little black dresses <= worn by sluts
Quote from: garbon on February 26, 2013, 02:00:52 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 26, 2013, 01:58:22 PM
This is all so the One World Government can use their Black Drones more efficiently to promote Big Brother.
Why does black always have to be used to connote evil? <_<
because you are wicked, well in your case half-wicked, wicked lite, etc....
Quote from: garbon on February 26, 2013, 02:00:52 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 26, 2013, 01:58:22 PM
This is all so the One World Government can use their Black Drones more efficiently to promote Big Brother.
Why does black always have to be used to connote evil? <_<
Because the night is dark and full of terrors.
Patriot Act, Echelon ... isn't it a bit late to start worrying about Big Brother?
Not to mention credit cards, Google, Facebook ...
Quote from: Iormlund on February 26, 2013, 02:58:09 PM
Patriot Act, Echelon ... isn't it a bit late to start worrying about Big Brother?
Not to mention credit cards, Google, Facebook ...
Yeah they have been collecting info on us for awhile. The government seem to have a strange addiction to information gathering and secrecy when neither are required in the vast majority of circumstances. My only concern is it requires me to have faith that the government is compromised of good people with good intentions, and I have no reason to suspect it is not so on the whole, but this is the sort of situation our constitution and laws were supposed to protect us from...relying on the goodness of people.
Quote from: Barrister on February 26, 2013, 02:29:05 PM
Well it is a much better point than "but the government has no right to this info".
Bingo. I don't worry about Big Brother nearly so much as I worry about Little Brother.
Quote from: Valmy on February 26, 2013, 03:03:49 PM
Yeah they have been collecting info on us for awhile. The government seem to have a strange addiction to information gathering and secrecy when neither are required in the vast majority of circumstances. My only concern is it requires me to have faith that the government is compromised of good people with good intentions, and I have no reason to suspect it is not so on the whole, but this is the sort of situation our constitution and laws were supposed to protect us from...relying on the goodness of people.
As you note, governments are made up of people, and the solution to problems with "government" access to information is to punish individuals who misuse any access they may have to individuals' information, rather than moaning about "big brother."
If you punish individuals who misuse any access they may have to individuals' information, you also can punish those not in government who do so. This is a much better solution than trying to prevent misuse of individuals' information by trying to put blinders on "the government."
Quote from: katmai on February 26, 2013, 02:52:18 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 26, 2013, 02:00:52 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 26, 2013, 01:58:22 PM
This is all so the One World Government can use their Black Drones more efficiently to promote Big Brother.
Why does black always have to be used to connote evil? <_<
because you are wicked, well in your case half-wicked, wicked lite, etc....
Caramel wicked.
Quote from: Barrister on February 26, 2013, 02:29:05 PM
Well it is a much better point than "but the government has no right to this info".
Indeed. Governments do not have rights, they have powers.
Quote from: merithyn on February 26, 2013, 01:36:19 PM
Was this mentioned anywhere at all when the whole Obamacare thing came out? :unsure:
Ms. Pelosi told us it had to be passed before it could be read.
Quote from: derspiess on February 26, 2013, 03:35:27 PM
Quote from: merithyn on February 26, 2013, 01:36:19 PM
Was this mentioned anywhere at all when the whole Obamacare thing came out? :unsure:
Ms. Pelosi told us it had to be passed before it could be read.
Ah democracy.
Quote from: grumbler on February 26, 2013, 03:23:14 PM
Bingo. I don't worry about Big Brother nearly so much as I worry about Little Brother.
It's going to be so much fun in a few years when everyone starts transmitting and storing on the cloud everything around them ...
Meri, I think it was fairly predictable that a health care overall that imposed penalties for not owning insurance was going to have some intrusive aspects.