http://gma.yahoo.com/alabama-kidnapper-threatened-kill-schoolchildren-082408276--abc-news-topstories.html
QuoteJimmy Lee Dykes, the retired Alabama trucker who allegedly shot a school bus driver last week and has held a 5-year-old boy hostage in his underground bunker for seven days, had threatened to kill all the children on the bus before taking the boy, one of the students on the bus said.
"He said he was going to kill us, going to kill us all," Tarrica Singletary, 14, told ABC News.
"The bus driver kept saying, 'Just please get off the bus,' and [Dykes] said, 'Ah, all right, I'll get off the bus," Tarrica said. "He just tried to back up and reverse and [Dykes] pulled out the gun and he just shot him, and he just took Ethan."
Drones are flying over the homemade underground bunker this morning near Midland City, Ala., where police say Dykes is holding Ethan hostage. Officials have not released the boy's last name.
Despite days of negotiations, police say they have little to go on. Dykes, 65, has made few demands, and they still have no motive for his actions, or any sense of when the standoff might end.
"It gives them more time to study this bunker," former FBI profiler and ABC News consultant Brad Garrett said. "Does Mr. Dykes have any explosives? Has he booby trapped the doors if ever they tried to get in?"
Negotiators have been communicating with Dykes through a ventilation pipe that leads to the bunker, and have used it to send the child comfort items, including a red Hot Wheels car, coloring books, cheese crackers, potato chips and medicine.
Dykes is a decorated Vietnam vet who grew up in the area. He lived in Florida until two years ago, the AP reported, and has an adult daughter, but the two lost touch years ago, neighbor Michael Creel said. When he returned to Alabama, neighbors say he once beat a dog with a lead pipe and had threatened to shoot children who set foot on his property.
At a news conference this weekend, Dale County Sheriff Wally Olson surprised many when he thanked Dykes.
"I want to thank him for taking care of our child, that is very important," Olson said Saturday.
On Sunday, the tight-knit Midland City community buried bus driver Chuck Poland, who died protecting the children from Dykes. Hundreds came out to the funeral as they prayed for Ethan.
Cindy Steiner, who lives next door to Ethan, said his mother is worried and just wants her "loving little boy" home safe.
"Because Ethan being autistic, he has behavior problems, and she doesn't want him to get in one of those moods where he's uncontrollable," Steiner told ABC News. "She's scared what would happen."
Steiner said she had a message for Ethan.
"Hang tough, little man," she said. "We love you. We are praying for you."
I hadn't realized this was still ongoing. -_-
Talking to him through a ventilation pipe. Not much else they can do at this point.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2013, 11:22:15 AM
Talking to him through a ventilation pipe. Not much else they can do at this point.
What about borrowing some of that KGB/Alpha gas and having the antidote on hand as well ?
Quote from: mongers on February 04, 2013, 11:47:38 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2013, 11:22:15 AM
Talking to him through a ventilation pipe. Not much else they can do at this point.
What about borrowing some of that KGB/Alpha gas and having the antidote on hand as well ?
Because that would be stupid?
Quote from: mongers on February 04, 2013, 11:47:38 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2013, 11:22:15 AM
Talking to him through a ventilation pipe. Not much else they can do at this point.
What about borrowing some of that KGB/Alpha gas and having the antidote on hand as well ?
Kid's five Mongers, way too risky.
Quote from: mongers on February 04, 2013, 11:47:38 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2013, 11:22:15 AM
Talking to him through a ventilation pipe. Not much else they can do at this point.
What about borrowing some of that KGB/Alpha gas and having the antidote on hand as well ?
That was my thought as well. Pretty much the only option for a forceful end, I would think. An obvious problem would be finding a balance between pumping enough gas to quickly knock him out, but not so much that you would OD the much lighter boy.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2013, 11:51:52 AM
Quote from: mongers on February 04, 2013, 11:47:38 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2013, 11:22:15 AM
Talking to him through a ventilation pipe. Not much else they can do at this point.
What about borrowing some of that KGB/Alpha gas and having the antidote on hand as well ?
Because that would be stupid?
What else can you do for a contingency? It seems like the nut holed himself up in such a way that a lightning fast strike is impossible.
Quote from: DGuller on February 04, 2013, 12:02:46 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2013, 11:51:52 AM
Quote from: mongers on February 04, 2013, 11:47:38 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2013, 11:22:15 AM
Talking to him through a ventilation pipe. Not much else they can do at this point.
What about borrowing some of that KGB/Alpha gas and having the antidote on hand as well ?
Because that would be stupid?
What else can you do for a contingency? It seems like the nut holed himself up in such a way that a lightning fast strike is impossible.
Then you talk him out. It's what we in the West do: attempt to preserve life.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2013, 12:03:52 PM
Then you talk him out. It's what we in the West do: attempt to preserve life.
Of course you try to talk him out, that's done in every situation like that. However, what you also have in every situation is a contingency plan to end the standoff forcefully if talking it out doesn't work.
I have a feeling that sleeping gas is an option once they determine if the entrance is booby-trapped.
Quote from: DGuller on February 04, 2013, 12:29:35 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2013, 12:03:52 PM
Then you talk him out. It's what we in the West do: attempt to preserve life.
Of course you try to talk him out, that's done in every situation like that. However, what you also have in every situation is a contingency plan to end the standoff forcefully if talking it out doesn't work.
Uh, no, you don't always have a contingency plan in every situation, particularly when there is no contingency readily available, such as dealing with a hostage negotiation in a reinforced underground bunker.
Stop watching so much fucking TV, goddammit.
Second Amendment and all that.
Quote from: merithyn on February 04, 2013, 12:30:33 PM
I have a feeling that sleeping gas is an option once they determine if the entrance is booby-trapped.
That is not a viable option. You do not want to gas people into unconsciousness when you're not sure how long it would take to get in there.
Would look real nice on the front page if they gassed a 6 year old kid who suffocates to death by the way he collapses when it takes 3 hours to disarm a device, particularly from the outside, now wouldn't it?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2013, 12:45:03 PM
Quote from: merithyn on February 04, 2013, 12:30:33 PM
I have a feeling that sleeping gas is an option once they determine if the entrance is booby-trapped.
That is not a viable option. You do not want to gas people into unconsciousness when you're not sure how long it would take to get in there.
Would look real nice on the front page if they gassed a 6 year old kid who suffocates to death by the way he collapses when it takes 3 hours to disarm a device, particularly from the outside, now wouldn't it?
That's why I said once they determine if the entrance is booby-trapped. I couldn't imagine the authorities trying anything like that unless they know that they can get in quickly and easily. Since it may be impossible for them to figure out if it's possible, then like you say, it's probably not an option.
Quote from: merithyn on February 04, 2013, 12:50:38 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2013, 12:45:03 PM
Quote from: merithyn on February 04, 2013, 12:30:33 PM
I have a feeling that sleeping gas is an option once they determine if the entrance is booby-trapped.
That is not a viable option. You do not want to gas people into unconsciousness when you're not sure how long it would take to get in there.
Would look real nice on the front page if they gassed a 6 year old kid who suffocates to death by the way he collapses when it takes 3 hours to disarm a device, particularly from the outside, now wouldn't it?
That's why I said once they determine if the entrance is booby-trapped. I couldn't imagine the authorities trying anything like that unless they know that they can get in quickly and easily. Since it may be impossible for them to figure out if it's possible, then like you say, it's probably not an option.
I wonder if they sneaked in a hidden camera inside the toy car they gave the kid. :hmm: :ph34r:
Quote from: merithyn on February 04, 2013, 12:50:38 PM
That's why I said once they determine if the entrance is booby-trapped. I couldn't imagine the authorities trying anything like that unless they know that they can get in quickly and easily. Since it may be impossible for them to figure out if it's possible, then like you say, it's probably not an option.
You don't know how long it will take to get through a barricade until you get through it.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2013, 01:07:27 PM
Quote from: merithyn on February 04, 2013, 12:50:38 PM
That's why I said once they determine if the entrance is booby-trapped. I couldn't imagine the authorities trying anything like that unless they know that they can get in quickly and easily. Since it may be impossible for them to figure out if it's possible, then like you say, it's probably not an option.
You don't know how long it will take to get through a barricade until you get through it.
Makes sense.
So is the media showing an almost unheard of level of restraint on this story in order to avoid inflaming the kidnapper, or is there some other reason this story isn't attracting monster levels of media attention?
Quote from: Barrister on February 04, 2013, 01:24:44 PM
So is the media showing an almost unheard of level of restraint on this story in order to avoid inflaming the kidnapper, or is there some other reason this story isn't attracting monster levels of media attention?
The media desperately wants the kid dead. You can get way more attention by saying that the authorities did everything wrong and saying 'Is your child in danger?' than you could with a happy story about the kid getting out alive.
Quote from: Barrister on February 04, 2013, 01:24:44 PM
So is the media showing an almost unheard of level of restraint on this story in order to avoid inflaming the kidnapper, or is there some other reason this story isn't attracting monster levels of media attention?
Police said that they believe the guy is monitoring the media, so they are taking efforts to not publicize anything they don't want him to hear. I assume they also convinced the media to do likewise, if that didn't occur to them first.
Quote from: DGuller on February 04, 2013, 01:47:04 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 04, 2013, 01:24:44 PM
So is the media showing an almost unheard of level of restraint on this story in order to avoid inflaming the kidnapper, or is there some other reason this story isn't attracting monster levels of media attention?
Police said that they believe the guy is monitoring the media, so they are taking efforts to not publicize anything they don't want him to hear. I assume they also convinced the media to do likewise, if that didn't occur to them first.
Well good on them, then.
Kidnapper dead, child safe.
What's taking so long with the details?
http://news.yahoo.com/alabama-town-gathers-bury-bus-driver-slain-hostage-011349756.html
All I've seen up to now.
Good job by the FBI
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/04/16836632-alabama-hostage-boy-safe-kidnapper-dead?lite
QuoteUpdated at 5:45 p.m. ET: A 5-year-old boy held captive for seven days in an underground bunker in southern Alabama is alive and his kidnapper is dead, Special Agent in Charge Stephen Richardson said at a press briefing on Monday afternoon.
Richardson, of the Mobile, Ala. FBI office, said the situation had deteriorated in the 24 hours and that the kidnapper, 65-year-old Jimmy Lee Dykes, appeared to have a gun.
"Within the past 24 hours negotiations deteriorated and Mr. Dykes was observed holding a gun," Richardson said in a brief statement. "At this point, FBI agents, fearing the child was in imminent danger, entered the bunker and rescued the child."
The child was recovered at 3:12 p.m. CT and appears physically unharmed, Richardson said. He is being treated at a local hospital.
The Dothan Eagle newspaper reported hearing two loud bangs from the scene shortly before 3:30 p.m. According to the report, an ambulance then drove up the private dirt road where Dykes' homes is located and then left a short time later.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 04, 2013, 05:58:42 PM
Good job by the FBI
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/04/16836632-alabama-hostage-boy-safe-kidnapper-dead?lite
QuoteUpdated at 5:45 p.m. ET: A 5-year-old boy held captive for seven days in an underground bunker in southern Alabama is alive and his kidnapper is dead, Special Agent in Charge Stephen Richardson said at a press briefing on Monday afternoon.
Richardson, of the Mobile, Ala. FBI office, said the situation had deteriorated in the 24 hours and that the kidnapper, 65-year-old Jimmy Lee Dykes, appeared to have a gun.
"Within the past 24 hours negotiations deteriorated and Mr. Dykes was observed holding a gun," Richardson said in a brief statement. "At this point, FBI agents, fearing the child was in imminent danger, entered the bunker and rescued the child."
The child was recovered at 3:12 p.m. CT and appears physically unharmed, Richardson said. He is being treated at a local hospital.
The Dothan Eagle newspaper reported hearing two loud bangs from the scene shortly before 3:30 p.m. According to the report, an ambulance then drove up the private dirt road where Dykes' homes is located and then left a short time later.
Fuck! What were they doing with a contingency plan to enter the bunker if the negotiations failed? They are watching too fucking much TV! They were supposed to be professionals, like CdM described, and have their thumbs up their asses if their primary plan failed.
The fact that DGuller was dead right and Seedy dead wrong is all the fault of the FBI.
Actually CdM simply said you do not always have a contingency plan, he didn't say there was no contingency plan in this scenario. What he said was you wouldn't have a contingency plan if someone was in a reinforced underground bunker that couldn't easily be breached. I've seen no pictures or descriptions of this bunker. It could have had a door that any tactical team could blow through in seconds, or he could have rigged something that collapsed large amounts of earth over the entrance after going inside and the only real access would have been a long digging operation. He could have piled a half ton of sand bags behind the door, he could have piled a half ton of sand bags in front of the door and been monitoring the entrance. In those scenarios there's no way you get in without him knowing well in advance, and that means dead kid--and in such a scenario CdM is pretty much right. You may not have any contingency plan.
QuoteOfficials had been able to insert a high-tech camera into the bunker to monitor the movements of the suspect, Richard Lee Dykes, and they had become increasingly concerned that he might act out, according to a law enforcement source with direct knowledge.
"FBI agents safely recovered the child who's been held hostage for nearly a week," FBI Special Agent Steve Richardson said at a news conference.
The agent said negotiations with Dykes "deteriorated" in the past 24 hours.
"Mr. Dykes was observed holding a gun," Richardson said. "At this point, the FBI agents, fearing the child was in imminent danger, entered the bunker and rescued the child."
I guess they took my idea. :smarty:
Quote from: DGuller on February 04, 2013, 08:21:00 PM
I guess they took my idea. :smarty:
Jam the breathing tube with blueberries?
Too soon?
In any way, blueberries are out of season.
Quote from: DGuller on February 04, 2013, 08:21:00 PM
I guess they took my idea. :smarty:
Gassing them like a Chechnyan Ladies' Auxiliary Bridge Club? No, I don't think they did.
Quote from: DGuller on February 04, 2013, 08:37:46 PM
In any way, blueberries are out of season.
I own a freezer. :rolleyes:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2013, 08:42:50 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 04, 2013, 08:21:00 PM
I guess they took my idea. :smarty:
Gassing them like a Chechnyan Ladies' Auxiliary Bridge Club? No, I don't think they did.
Putting a hidden camera through the chute, silly.
DG falls back on his KGB training.
Quote from: DGuller on February 04, 2013, 08:48:48 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2013, 08:42:50 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 04, 2013, 08:21:00 PM
I guess they took my idea. :smarty:
Gassing them like a Chechnyan Ladies' Auxiliary Bridge Club? No, I don't think they did.
Putting a hidden camera through the chute, silly.
That's not a contingency plan.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2013, 10:25:55 PM
That's not a contingency plan.
I've had good ideas in a lot of different areas.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on February 04, 2013, 06:23:02 PM
Actually CdM simply said you do not always have a contingency plan, he didn't say there was no contingency plan in this scenario. What he said was you wouldn't have a contingency plan if someone was in a reinforced underground bunker that couldn't easily be breached. I've seen no pictures or descriptions of this bunker. It could have had a door that any tactical team could blow through in seconds, or he could have rigged something that collapsed large amounts of earth over the entrance after going inside and the only real access would have been a long digging operation. He could have piled a half ton of sand bags behind the door, he could have piled a half ton of sand bags in front of the door and been monitoring the entrance. In those scenarios there's no way you get in without him knowing well in advance, and that means dead kid--and in such a scenario CdM is pretty much right. You may not have any contingency plan.
DG stated that "Of course you try to talk him out, that's done in every situation like that. However, what you also have in every situation is a contingency plan to end the standoff forcefully if talking it out doesn't work." That's exactly what happened, contrary to Seedy's argument that DG was watching too much TV.
The argument that you don't have a contingency plan if a contingency plan is difficult is also false, from my experience. The contingency plan might not be one you look forward to implementing, and it may have a low probability of success, but you always prepare one (or, at least, I always did, and every competent commander and staff I knew always did, as well). Standing around with your thumb up your ass because the problem is difficult was never an option in any organization I was a member of or led.
Quote from: grumbler on February 05, 2013, 07:44:15 AM
Standing around with your thumb up your ass because the problem is difficult was never an option in any organization I was a member of or led.
Were you ever in a union? :)
So, was the camera in the toy car or one of the color pens?
DG said you have a contingency plan in every situation, CdM said not necessarily every situation. "Exactly what happened" doesn't apply here, because DG made a universal claim and this is just one incident.
You're not going to win this one, Otto. Once grumbler's got his jaw locked onto something, can't pry it off with a crowbar. :D
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on February 05, 2013, 08:45:31 AM
DG said you have a contingency plan in every situation, CdM said not necessarily every situation. "Exactly what happened" doesn't apply here, because DG made a universal claim and this is just one incident.
And in situations like this you do, indeed, have contingency plans for all contingencies you can think of, unless you are incompetent. Those plans may not be palatable under anything but the most extreme conditions, but if you don't make them you are in a job you can't handle.
Could giving up and dispersing be considered a contingency?
Quote from: garbon on February 05, 2013, 10:13:39 AM
Could giving up and dispersing be considered a contingency?
The man giving up could be a contingency, but I am not sure how one man can disperse. :lol:
I wasn't talking about the man. ;)
Quote from: garbon on February 05, 2013, 10:21:10 AM
I wasn't talking about the man. ;)
Okay. I thought you were referring to my post and thus this situation. The the subjects dispersing could be a contingency in some situations, but not others. Ditto for the subjects giving up.
Actually I wonder what would have happened if they had just ceased all contact with the guy and appeared to 'leave'. Maybe he would have opened the bunker to look around, at which time they could have shot or tazed him or something? :hmm:
I guess he could have also killed the kid had they done that, but it seems like this guy was a giant attention whore so I'm guessing he wouldn't have. Guess they couldn't take that chance though.
BBC interview with a neighbour on this story:
'There are reports that he allegedly beat a dog to death with a pipe. Is this true?'
'Yes.'
'How did this happen? Why?'
Edit: Two minutes in and they asked a question about the hostage situation :lol:
Poor kid. :(
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/12/16940492-mother-of-boy-held-in-alabama-bunker-says-son-saw-kidnapper-shot?lite
QuoteBy Andrew Rafferty, Staff Writer, NBC News
The six-year-old Alabama boy kidnapped on his way home from school and held for seven days in an underground bunker is having difficulty sleeping and is troubled by the site of school buses, according to the boy's mother.
Jennifer Kirkland, mother of the boy identified by officials only as Ethan, gave her first interview to Dr. Phil McGraw for an episode of the "Dr. Phil Show" set to air Wednesday.
A preview of the show posted online reveals that Ethan saw officers fatally shoot his kidnapper, identified as Jimmy Lee Dykes.
"He said, 'The Army came in and shot the bad man,'" Kirkland said.
Federal agents raided the underground bunker on the sixth day of the standoff when the 65-year-old Dykes thought he would be receiving a delivery.
Though Ethan was not physically injured, Kirkland expressed concerns over the long-term mental effects of the trauma.
"I'm scared of how he's going to take getting on a bus," she said.
During the standoff officials had reported that the boy suffered from Asperger's syndrome.
Ethan, who has yet to return to school, was taken hostage on January 29 after Dykes's boarded his school bus and demanded the bus driver turn over two children, according to authorities. When the driver refused, Dykes fatally shot the driver and took Ethan.
"He has said a few things I know that he is having a very hard time sleeping soundly," said Kirkland. "He slings his arms and tosses and turns and he's cried out a few times."
In an interview with ABC's "Good Morning America," McGraw said that Ethan's captor developed empathy for the boy, frying him chicken and taking care of him in the small bunker.
According to his mother, Ethan has said only a few things about his captivity. "I think he understands there was a very violent act. I think it scared him greatly," McGraw said.
Is Timmy now righting for NBC News? :o
:lol:
Quote from: Malthus on February 13, 2013, 11:23:45 AM
"... is troubled by the site of school buses ..."
Maybe it was parked in a handicapped space or something.
I hope they get that kid to a real doctor and far away from "Dr" Phil. :glare:
What happens when stuff like that happens to kids, schoolwise? It says he hasn't been to school since Jan. 29. Does he get a bye, or does he wind up having to repeat the grade, or what?
Quote from: Ideologue on February 13, 2013, 12:41:31 PM
What happens when stuff like that happens to kids, schoolwise? It says he hasn't been to school since Jan. 29. Does he get a bye, or does he wind up having to repeat the grade, or what?
Chances are the child will receive in-home tutoring for the rest of this year once he's ready for it - a month or so from now, most likely.
I was troubled by the sight of a school bus at 6 years old too. I wanted to stay home and built shit out of Lincoln Logs.
Quote from: merithyn on February 13, 2013, 12:22:05 PM
I hope they get that kid to a real doctor and far away from "Dr" Phil. :glare:
Uh oh. 2006 Seedy's gonna be all over you for that.
Quote from: derspiess on February 13, 2013, 03:25:53 PM
Quote from: merithyn on February 13, 2013, 12:22:05 PM
I hope they get that kid to a real doctor and far away from "Dr" Phil. :glare:
Uh oh. 2006 Seedy's gonna be all over you for that.
So's 2013 Seedy. Dr. Phil is Teh Mang.
Quote from: sbr on February 13, 2013, 03:24:19 PM
I was troubled by the sight of a school bus at 6 years old too. I wanted to stay home and built shit out of Lincoln Logs.
I actually used to like riding the school bus. Whee!
Quote from: Caliga on February 13, 2013, 04:24:23 PM
Quote from: sbr on February 13, 2013, 03:24:19 PM
I was troubled by the sight of a school bus at 6 years old too. I wanted to stay home and built shit out of Lincoln Logs.
I actually used to like riding the school bus. Whee!
Well, it's easier to get in and out of the short one. :P
...or, as we called it, the "'tart Cart". :cool:
The extra-short bus in the second Dumb & Dumber movie was awesome.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 13, 2013, 03:34:09 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 13, 2013, 03:25:53 PM
Quote from: merithyn on February 13, 2013, 12:22:05 PM
I hope they get that kid to a real doctor and far away from "Dr" Phil. :glare:
Uh oh. 2006 Seedy's gonna be all over you for that.
So's 2013 Seedy. Dr. Phil is Teh Mang.
:yeahright: