I do not approve.
What say you Languish, if you were going to be blind and deaf would you end it all?
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/14/16507519-faced-with-blindness-deaf-twins-choose-euthanasia?lite
QuoteFaced with blindness, deaf twins choose euthanasia
By Annabel Roberts, Correspondent, NBC News
A pair of adult identical twins in Belgium have been legally killed at their request, the men's doctor told journalists.
The 45-years-old men, who were born deaf, spent their lives side-by-side — growing up together and then, as adults, sharing an apartment and working as cobblers together, according to Belgian media reports.
The men's names have not been released but photographs of the identical twins from the Antwerp region have been made available to some media outlets.
Their doctor, David Dufour, told Belgium's RTL Television over the weekend that the two men had been losing their eyesight for several years and soon would have been completely blind. The prospect of being blind as well as deaf was unbearable to them, he said.
"They were fully aware of their decision," Dufour said.
After winning approval from the necessary authorities, the two men received lethal injections at a Belgian hospital in December.
Dufour described their last moments: "They had a last cup of coffee and everything was fine. They said goodbye to their parents and brother and all was serene. They waved — and that was that."
Under a 2002 law, Belgians are allowed to end their own lives if a doctor judges an individual has made his or her wishes clear and is suffering unbearable pain.
The case of the twins was unusual because the two men were not approaching the end of their natural lives nor were they terminally ill.
But Jacqueline Herremans, a member of the Belgian Commission of Euthanasia, told RTL that they did meet the legal requirements as their suffering was grave and incurable. When they became blind as well as deaf, he said, they would not have been able to lead autonomous lives, and that with only a sense of touch they had no prospects of a future.
She acknowledged this was an exceptional case.
"Evidently they had a particular destiny. They were two human beings who have lived together, grown up together, worked together and wanted to die together. Their suffering may not have been physical, but there was psychological suffering," she said.
In 2010 and 2011, a total of 2,086 people died by euthanasia in Belgium, according to the country's Euthanasia Commission.
Belgium is now looking at introducing a legal amendment that would allow children and those with dementia the option of seeking permission to die. If passed later this year, the option of euthanasia will be extended to minors affected by an incurable illness, or suffering that cannot be alleviated.
I can certainly see the argument for it. I'm not sure what decision I would make, but I don't begrudge others the freedom to make that choice.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2013, 06:45:37 PM
What say you Languish, if you were going to be blind and deaf would you end it all?
The mere thought of having to make that decision would make me shoot myself.
Yikes.
Of course. A mind cut off from the world? That's real I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream stuff right there.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2013, 06:45:37 PM
After winning approval from the necessary authorities, the two men received lethal injections at a Belgian hospital in December.
Dufour described their last moments: "They had a last cup of coffee and everything was fine. They said goodbye to their parents and brother and all was serene. They waved — and that was that."
This is so very European.
I'm conflicted. On first glance I'm repulsed by the whole idea, but putting myself in that situation I can't say I fault them for wanting to end it.
Quote from: derspiess on January 14, 2013, 08:27:13 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2013, 06:45:37 PM
After winning approval from the necessary authorities, the two men received lethal injections at a Belgian hospital in December.
Dufour described their last moments: "They had a last cup of coffee and everything was fine. They said goodbye to their parents and brother and all was serene. They waved — and that was that."
This is so very European.
I'm conflicted. On first glance I'm repulsed by the whole idea, but putting myself in that situation I can't say I fault them for wanting to end it.
I find the idea creepy.
I'd probably do the same. Life without sight and sound is no kind of life at all.
What more did they have to live for? They faced a life of isolation and despondency, knowing that their place in the world was more in their minds than anywhere else. They had a future of irrelevance and lack of meaningful communication with anyone else.
In other words, they were Belgian. Oh, the deaf and blind thing was probably a bummer too.
Quote from: PDH on January 14, 2013, 09:46:40 PM
What more did they have to live for? They faced a life of isolation and despondency, knowing that their place in the world was more in their minds than anywhere else. They had a future of irrelevance and lack of meaningful communication with anyone else.
In other words, they were Belgian. Oh, the deaf and blind thing was probably a bummer too.
:lol:
If Languish threads are contests, this one has been won.
Quote from: PDH on January 14, 2013, 09:46:40 PM
What more did they have to live for? They faced a life of isolation and despondency, knowing that their place in the world was more in their minds than anywhere else. They had a future of irrelevance and lack of meaningful communication with anyone else.
In other words, they were Belgian. Oh, the deaf and blind thing was probably a bummer too.
POTM!
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2013, 06:45:37 PM
I do not approve.
What say you Languish, if you were going to be blind and deaf would you end it all?
Dude, blind me alone and I'll snuff it. They don't make comics in braille.
Quote from: Ideologue on January 14, 2013, 11:50:56 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2013, 06:45:37 PM
I do not approve.
What say you Languish, if you were going to be blind and deaf would you end it all?
Dude, blind me alone and I'll snuff it. They don't make comics in braille.
I give you about five years before you snuff it anyway.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2013, 06:45:37 PM
if you were going to be blind and deaf would you end it all?
yes
Quote from: Neil on January 14, 2013, 08:02:47 PM
Of course. A mind cut off from the world? That's real I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream stuff right there.
I fully agree with you. I would have probably made the same decision.
What puzzles me is some people in this thread stating not that they would have not take the same decision, but "not approving" or finding the decision these twins took "repulsive" etc.
Can you give at least one coherent argument why you believe you have any right to comment on someone else's sovereign decision? :huh:
Quote from: Razgovory on January 15, 2013, 06:04:45 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on January 14, 2013, 11:50:56 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2013, 06:45:37 PM
I do not approve.
What say you Languish, if you were going to be blind and deaf would you end it all?
Dude, blind me alone and I'll snuff it. They don't make comics in braille.
I give you about five years before you snuff it anyway.
Well, I'll take it from one who knows. After all, you died well over a decade ago.
Quote from: PDH on January 14, 2013, 09:46:40 PM
What more did they have to live for? They faced a life of isolation and despondency, knowing that their place in the world was more in their minds than anywhere else. They had a future of irrelevance and lack of meaningful communication with anyone else.
In other words, they were Belgian. Oh, the deaf and blind thing was probably a bummer too.
:D
Quote from: Martinus on January 15, 2013, 06:38:36 AM
What puzzles me is some people in this thread stating not that they would have not take the same decision, but "not approving" or finding the decision these twins took "repulsive" etc.
Can you give at least one coherent argument why you believe you have any right to comment on someone else's sovereign decision? :huh:
How are you using the word "sovereign" here?
Quote from: Ideologue on January 14, 2013, 11:50:56 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2013, 06:45:37 PM
I do not approve.
What say you Languish, if you were going to be blind and deaf would you end it all?
Dude, blind me alone and I'll snuff it. They don't make comics in braille.
There was a post recently on Paradox forum asking for a compatibility of Crusader Kings 2 with various screen-text-reading applications. It was made by someone (who claimed to be) totally blind.
It made me sad and reflective.
Quote from: Ideologue on January 15, 2013, 06:39:06 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 15, 2013, 06:04:45 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on January 14, 2013, 11:50:56 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 14, 2013, 06:45:37 PM
I do not approve.
What say you Languish, if you were going to be blind and deaf would you end it all?
Dude, blind me alone and I'll snuff it. They don't make comics in braille.
I give you about five years before you snuff it anyway.
Well, I'll take it from one who knows. After all, you died well over a decade ago.
12 years and half years, yeah.
Quote from: Martinus on January 15, 2013, 06:38:36 AM
Can you give at least one coherent argument why you believe you have any right to comment on someone else's sovereign decision? :huh:
Same question as Raz - though in any event, I'd say why would this be different from anything else? We always comment on other people's decisions.
Quote from: Martinus on January 15, 2013, 06:38:36 AM
What puzzles me is some people in this thread stating not that they would have not take the same decision, but "not approving" or finding the decision these twins took "repulsive" etc.
Can you give at least one coherent argument why you believe you have any right to comment on someone else's sovereign decision? :huh:
Because I live in a country that has freedom of speech.
I think I would want to see what life might be like first and set up a preset signal. Tap me on the head three times. If I tap back three times it means end it. If I make a fist and swing for you it means leave me alone.
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 15, 2013, 03:19:24 PM
I think I would want to see what life might be like first and set up a preset signal. Tap me on the head three times. If I tap back three times it means end it. If I make a fist and swing for you it means leave me alone.
If you do that, you run the risk of some Timmy douchebag intervening.
A deaf/blind life could be interesting- I'd like to try and make tea, and also make some poetry, before killing myself.
Making tea while blind was very fun in the first place- It is immediately clear life would be much harder if you were also deaf, though. I certainly don't begrudge the gentlemen their wishes.
QuoteBelgium is now looking at introducing a legal amendment that would allow children and those with dementia the option of seeking permission to die. If passed later this year, the option of euthanasia will be extended to minors affected by an incurable illness, or suffering that cannot be alleviated.
This seems fraught with difficulties. The right to choose to die makes sense for an adult with full conciousness, or an adult who, with full concousness, signs a "living will" stating that they wish to die when they become demented; but making the same choice by a child (or on behalf of a child by a guardian, like other medical choices) strikes me as very concerning.
Quote from: Jacob on January 15, 2013, 05:49:22 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 15, 2013, 03:19:24 PM
I think I would want to see what life might be like first and set up a preset signal. Tap me on the head three times. If I tap back three times it means end it. If I make a fist and swing for you it means leave me alone.
If you do that, you run the risk of some Timmy douchebag intervening.
You raise a good point.
Not sure what I'd do.... Beg to be allowed one of those experimental devices where they hook up a camera to your brain?
It is a pretty horrific thought to be without sight or sound. And living with your brother....
But the suicide is their choice to make. People are going to be doing it anyway, there should be a quick, easy and legal method to do it. Would stop cunts jumping in front of trains and messing up the schedules.
I knew there were right to die laws in Europe that were more liberal than what we have here in Oregon but I didn't realize they were that liberal. As much as I support laws like this I also think including children is going a bit too far.
I understand the choice of the brothers, but from the perspective of the doctor, it just feels very off to off two adults who still had decades of lifespan left. It's essentially a voluntary execution.
Boy, if I could pick Languish posters to be euthanized.....
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 15, 2013, 08:20:01 PM
Boy, if I could pick Languish posters to be euthanized.....
Sounds like a good subject for a new thread. :hmm:
Quote from: DGuller on January 15, 2013, 08:21:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 15, 2013, 08:20:01 PM
Boy, if I could pick Languish posters to be euthanized.....
Sounds like a good subject for a new thread. :hmm:
I have almost started that thread like a dozen times.
Those get closed fast.
Maybe, instead of a Languish thread, we could get an on-line petition going to the White House to have Timmy euthanized.
Is this really euthanasia or suicide?
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 16, 2013, 08:57:51 AM
Is this really euthanasia or suicide?
They received lethal injections at a hospital. I'd say that makes it euthanasia. If they'd poisoned themselves, it would be suicide.