QuoteRussia's Putin: I'll sign law banning American adoptions
By NBC News staff and wire reports
Russian President Vladimir Putin signaled on Thursday that he would sign a controversial bill banning Americans from adopting Russian children, a defiant move against the United States that has angered some who argue that it victimizes children to make a political point.
The law could block dozens of Russian children expected to be adopted by American families from leaving the country and cut off one of the main international routes for Russian children to leave orphanages that are often dismal. Russia is the single biggest source of adopted children in the United States, with more than 60,000 Russian children being taken in by Americans over the past two decades.
The bill is retaliation for an American law that calls for sanctions against Russians deemed to be human rights violators and part of an increasingly confrontational stance by the Kremlin against the West.
Putin said U.S. authorities routinely let Americans suspected of violence toward Russian adoptees go unpunished — a clear reference to Dima Yakovlev, a Russian toddler for whom the bill is named. The child was adopted by Americans and then died in 2008 after his father left him in a car in broiling heat for hours. The father was found not guilty of involuntary manslaughter.
Putin indicated that he would endorse the measure.
"I still don't see any reasons why I should not sign it," he told a televised meeting, The Associated Press reported. He went on to say that he "intends" to sign it.
Children's rights ombudsman Pavel Astakhov on Wednesday said that 46 children who were about to be adopted in the United States would remain in Russia in case the bill comes into effect. On Thursday, he petitioned the president to extend the ban to other countries.
Would-be adoptive parents in the United States are left hanging by Putin's position on the bill, which was passed by Russian lawmakers last week.
Among them are John and Renee Thomas of Minnetonka, Minn., Kari Huus of NBC News reported. The Thomases have already adopted Jack, 7, from Russia. When they found out he had a little brother, they began the process to try to adopt him, too. The wait has stretched to four years, and now the adoption may be in danger.
"When Jack is asked about his family, he talks about his brother," John Thomas said. "He always asks, 'When is he coming home?' We just tell him we're waiting for the call."
UNICEF estimates that there are about 740,000 children without parental custody in Russia, while only 18,000 Russians are now waiting to adopt a child.
The U.S. State Department says it regrets the Russian Parliament's decision to pass the bill, saying it would prevent many children from growing up in families.
Critics of the bill have left dozens of stuffed toys and candles outside the parliament's lower and upper houses to express solidarity with Russian orphans.
I was about to start this topic myself. Funny how Russian minds work: Americans punish corrupt murderous bureaucrats, Russians retaliate by ... punishing their own sick orphans. They sure proved they're hardcore. If it wasn't so sad, it would be very amusing.
2 birds 1 stone. Russia is in need of more Russians and in perpetual need of annoying America. :P
As concerned as Putin is about his demographic implosion, you'd think he would take better care of Russian orphans in the first place.
If the ban is only on American adopters, how is he going to prevent 3rd party transfers? :ph34r:
That's not going to work, I don't think, Yi. Well, it might, but by the time the children make it through the different systems, the ban will be long gone.
Hmm. I guess that means that I have to cross Russia off my list of places for potential adoptions. :(
Quote from: merithyn on December 27, 2012, 11:05:18 AM
Hmm. I guess that means that I have to cross Russia off my list of places for potential adoptions. :(
Why do you want to be adopted by Russians?
Quote from: Syt on December 27, 2012, 11:09:01 AM
Quote from: merithyn on December 27, 2012, 11:05:18 AM
Hmm. I guess that means that I have to cross Russia off my list of places for potential adoptions. :(
Why do you want to be adopted by Russians?
No shit, Meri. Think, girl.
Then she'd have to cross off Iran too.
My brother-in-law's sister and her husband adopted a Cossack a few years ago, since her insides were a rocky place where his seed could find no purchase.
Went over there 3 times to get the run-around over him, coughing up more cash along the way. Told them not to deal with those people, fucking Afghans would be easier to deal with, but noooo, they wanted a little Cossack. When they finally scored, he had to get hospitalized at reentry because he tested positive as a TB carrier. Of course.
He's frigging huge for his age, has a head the size of a Conoco 76 sign. They're thinking Boris and Natasha lied about his age. YA THINK
Ice skates like a brute, though. Definitely going to be an enforcer.
I wonder if some Americans go for the Russians because they're the only widely available white brand of foreign babies. :hmm:
Quote from: DGuller on December 27, 2012, 11:49:55 AM
I wonder if some Americans go for the Russians because they're the only widely available white brand of foreign babies. :hmm:
available white babies.
Quote from: DGuller on December 27, 2012, 11:49:55 AM
I wonder if some Americans go for the Russians because they're the only widely available white brand of foreign babies. :hmm:
That's why they did it: they figured if they went for Chinese carry-out, he/she would encounter "identity problems" growing up.
I thought it was a bullshit excuse, but hey.
Chinese babies are full of lead.
I guess Ukrainian orphanages are stocking up as we speak, they're about to get a big boost for their business.
Quote from: DGuller on December 27, 2012, 11:49:55 AM
I wonder if some Americans go for the Russians because they're the only widely available white brand of foreign babies. :hmm:
Of course. When your other options are of various third-world races, even Slavs start to look good.
Quote from: Neil on December 27, 2012, 12:00:19 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 27, 2012, 11:49:55 AM
I wonder if some Americans go for the Russians because they're the only widely available white brand of foreign babies. :hmm:
Of course. When your other options are of various third-world races, even Slavs start to look good.
This thread has suddenly taken an insensitive and offensive turn. :mad:
Every Russian adoption comes with one complimentary facial wart.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 27, 2012, 12:04:19 PM
Every Russian adoption comes with one complimentary facial wart.
And infant-sized track suit.
And vodka bottle.
Quote from: Neil on December 27, 2012, 12:00:19 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 27, 2012, 11:49:55 AM
I wonder if some Americans go for the Russians because they're the only widely available white brand of foreign babies. :hmm:
Of course. When your other options are of various third-world races, even Slavs start to look good.
Slavs always look good. :cool:
Quote from: DGuller on December 27, 2012, 12:01:50 PM
This thread has suddenly taken an insensitive and offensive turn. :mad:
Quit yer kvetchin'
Quote from: Barrister on December 27, 2012, 12:06:55 PM
Slavs always look good. :cool:
Generally yes, but some of the chicks can look pig-faced.
Quote from: DGuller on December 27, 2012, 11:49:55 AM
I wonder if some Americans go for the Russians because they're the only widely available white brand of foreign babies. :hmm:
At the time that I was looking into this, Russia had one of the easier processes. The Ukraine wasn't bad, either, really. India and China were streamlined, but required more cash, more travel time, and had stricter rules for who could and could not adopt whom. (At a certain age, they would only allow you to adopt special needs kids.)
Most of the sub-Saharan African nations, supposedly, have a slightly better process now, but for a while it was a freaking nightmare of red-tape, based on all that I read. North African nations are an absolute no-go for Americans.
Quote from: merithyn on December 27, 2012, 12:17:51 PM
(At a certain age, they would only allow you to adopt special needs kids.)
"You get a GORK or nothing!"
Quote from: Barrister on December 27, 2012, 12:06:55 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 27, 2012, 12:00:19 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 27, 2012, 11:49:55 AM
I wonder if some Americans go for the Russians because they're the only widely available white brand of foreign babies. :hmm:
Of course. When your other options are of various third-world races, even Slavs start to look good.
Slavs always look good. :cool:
At this point, you're one of us.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 27, 2012, 11:55:46 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 27, 2012, 11:54:21 AM
Chinese babies are full of lead.
Sleeper agents.
Or future doctors/engineers to take care of you in your old age. :P
Quote from: DGuller on December 27, 2012, 10:47:34 AM
I was about to start this topic myself. Funny how Russian minds work: Americans punish corrupt murderous bureaucrats, Russians retaliate by ... punishing their own sick orphans. They sure proved they're hardcore. If it wasn't so sad, it would be very amusing.
Does this mean you are going to get sent back?
Russian logic: America passes a law we don't like, so they can't have our retard babies. We sure showed them!
Are there no orphans in the US? :huh:
Abortions are a wonderful thing!
Quote from: Martinus on December 28, 2012, 02:40:20 AM
Are there no orphans in the US? :huh:
[/quote
yeah, my thinking too. seems strange. or is the American system super strict and time consuming thus those it deems unsuitable adopters have to look abroad?
Quote from: Tyr on December 28, 2012, 05:12:23 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 28, 2012, 02:40:20 AM
Are there no orphans in the US? :huh:
[/quote
yeah, my thinking too. seems strange. or is the American system super strict and time consuming thus those it deems unsuitable adopters have to look abroad?
People want to know that even if they were crappy parent, they still made this kid's life better. If you take them out of Russia you've already improved their life quite a bit.
A 2010 article from the NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/16/world/europe/16adopt.html?_r=0
QuoteWithin days or weeks, it will probably lift the suspension on adoptions by Americans that it formally announced Thursday. But eventually, as a senior Kremlin official said, the government needs to find a way to ensure that all Russia's children stay in Russia. After all, how can a country with a shrinking population so readily surrender its very own to foreigners?
"We must, as much as possible, keep our children in our country, and keep them safe here," said the official, Pavel A. Astakhov.
As the new children's ombudsman in Russia, Mr. Astakhov has helped shape the government plan to tighten rules on adoptions, put in place after the uproar surrounding a 7-year-old boy who was sent back to Russia by himself last week by a Tennessee woman who adopted him last year.
¶ A celebrity lawyer and television personality, he has used his flair for the spotlight to make certain that the plight of the boy and other Russian children who have been mistreated abroad remains in the public eye. The cases are a prickly subject here, not just because the children have been taken away and abused, but also because the country has been unable to do anything about it.
In an interview on Thursday, Mr. Astakhov emphasized that he did not favor a permanent adoption ban, acknowledging that there were simply not enough Russian families who want to adopt children. But he suggested that more restrictions, combined with strenuous efforts to help Russian parents and to encourage adoptions inside the country, would sharply reduce the number of children sent abroad.
He added that it was "big business" for adoption agencies to find foreign adoptive parents, contending that Russian families were sometimes overlooked because it was far more profitable to offer children abroad.
"I see many mistakes, abuses, disinformation concerning children," he said. "But that's our domestic problem."
Yet, cutting the number of adoptions of Russian children by foreigners will not be easy. Many of the roughly 750,000 children in Russia that officials say have either no parents or parents who have lost custody are housed in a sprawling system of orphanages.
There is a stigma attached to adoption in Russia that makes many here more reluctant to adopt than most foreigners are, and the foster care system is rudimentary. As a result, experts worry that children will pile up in orphanages without the safety valve of foreign adoptions. But some also expressed the hope that the attention now being focused on the issue would help break down Russians' resistance.
¶ The suspension was announced Thursday by a Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman. The State Department in Washington said it had not yet been formally notified, but Mr. Astakhov said all adoptions were now halted.
An American delegation is planning to hold talks in Moscow next week, and Mr. Astakhov said he was optimistic that new rules could be devised.
"For nearly 20 years, there has been adoption by Americans of Russian children, but until now, there has been no agreement," he said. "That is just wrong. We seem to have arrived at that moment when we need to prove that we know how to agree on not only nuclear missiles and atomic bombs, but also on the needs of children."
Mr. Astakhov said both potential parents and adoption agencies should be scrutinized more closely.
Russia was the third leading source of adoptive children in the United States in 2009, with 1,586, after China and Ethiopia, officials said. But that figure had been decreasing in recent years, in part because of concerns about fetal alcohol syndrome and other health issues.
More than 250 American families are nearing the end of the process of adopting Russian children, and those cases will be held up until the new rules are approved, Russian officials said. In addition, as many as 3,500 Russian children are in some stage of the adoption process with 3,000 American families, according to the Joint Council on International Children's Services.
Russian officials acknowledge that the vast majority of adoptions have turned out well in recent decades. But 14 Russian children adopted by Americans have died of abuse since 1996, Russian officials said last year.
In the United States, parents who are trying to adopt Russian children reacted with deep disappointment to the suspension. "I don't know what Russia is thinking about the impact on these children," said Sue Gainor, chairwoman of Families for Russian and Ukrainian Adoption. "They've said, 'One of our children has been mistreated, therefore we need to take these draconian measures.' They are not thinking about the thousands of children waiting and languishing in orphanages."
Mr. Astakhov, 43, is an unlikely child welfare crusader. Before being appointed by President Dmitri A. Medvedev, he was one of Russia's leading private lawyers, and he does not have a child welfare background.
If the case of the 7-year-old boy, born Artyom Savelyev, has turned into a media circus, Mr. Astakhov seems to be playing the role of ringmaster. He has been a constant presence on television, and was even shown gently interviewing the boy himself.
It is a familiar medium for him. He is the host of a popular television program, "Hour of Judgment," in which he adjudicates the kinds of cases often heard on "Judge Judy" in the United States. (He is still allowed to work on the show even though he is a federal employee, he said.)
He said it was proper for him to engage the news media, adding that showing the boy on television attracted potential parents who might consider adopting him.
"We have an understanding with the president, who appointed me, that our work must attract maximum publicity," he said. "We must talk about what we are doing, and about these outrages."
Mr. Astakhov has an unusual perspective on Russian-American relations, having attended both an institute of the K.G.B. and the University of Pittsburgh.
He has not shied away from focusing on abuses in Russia, pointing out that Russian children adopted by Russians have come to harm far more often than Russian children in the United States.
Mr. Astakhov said he realized that Americans seeking to adopt Russians would be upset. But he said changes were needed. "Adoptions will continue," he said. "We only want guarantees for the lives and the safety of our children abroad. Because we are giving to American families the most precious thing for us: our children."
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgraphics8.nytimes.com%2Fimages%2F2010%2F04%2F16%2Fworld%2F16adopt_CA0%2F16adopt_CA0-popup.jpg&hash=70bcf517d377f4ba66d3cea5c622d90c384f3d38)
Refunds?
Not really:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/dianeclehane/2012/05/31/u-s-mother-who-returned-her-adopted-son-to-russia-ordered-to-pay-child-support/
QuoteOn May 17, a Tennessee court ruled that Hansen must pay $58,240 in child support arrears (the cost of Artem's institutional and medical care since his return to Russia), $29,000 to her adoption agency and nearly $63,000 in attorneys' fees. The court also ordered her to pay $1000 monthly child support payments until the boy is 18 or is adopted. The amount was determined using the financial information provided by Hansen at the time of the boy's adoption.
"We are satisfied this ruling finally offers some justice for this boy," said WACP's president Lillian Thogersen in a statement on the agency's website. "Adoption is a legal, lifelong commitment to a child. Sending a child alone on an international flight back to their birth country is not an option for any parent."
"Disannulled"? Isn't that like a double negative or something.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 28, 2012, 06:35:00 AM
"Disannulled"? Isn't that like a double negative or something.
You think you're a bigger wordmeister than Tennessee Woman? :yeahright:
Raz's argument is idiotic (I am not quoting it only because Tyr is an idiot who can't properly quote and I am not going to fix it).
Any child taken out of an orphanage will have his or her fare immediately improved (except when the adoption parent is a psycho - but then this is going to be bad for a foreign child as well).
I think foreign adoptions (where there are local kids available for adoption*) is just a fashionable trend in which stupid people ape stupid celebrities.
*Where local adoption is not available (e.g. same sex couples in many places in the West cannot still adopt a child locally) this is of course different.
Most people are only interested in young children, and only if they're white. The demand for those children greatly outstrips the supply.
:(
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 28, 2012, 06:35:00 AM
"Disannulled"? Isn't that like a double negative or something.
Russians love double negatives. In fact, they're often mandatory (in Russian at least).
My understanding is that adoption agencies prefer to give black kids to black parents, but that black parents don't adopt much.
I wouldn't want Propecia either.
Quote from: Martinus on December 28, 2012, 06:49:26 AM
Raz's argument is idiotic (I am not quoting it only because Tyr is an idiot who can't properly quote and I am not going to fix it).
Any child taken out of an orphanage will have his or her fare immediately improved (except when the adoption parent is a psycho - but then this is going to be bad for a foreign child as well).
I think foreign adoptions (where there are local kids available for adoption*) is just a fashionable trend in which stupid people ape stupid celebrities.
*Where local adoption is not available (e.g. same sex couples in many places in the West cannot still adopt a child locally) this is of course different.
A kid who is an orphan in the US is still probably better off then a kid who has both parents but is living in a famine prone war-torn country.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 28, 2012, 08:53:53 AM
My understanding is that adoption agencies prefer to give black kids to black parents, but that black parents don't adopt much.
Why should they? It's not like they have fertility issues.
Quote from: Martinus on December 28, 2012, 02:40:20 AM
Are there no orphans in the US? :huh:
The fear is that the birth parents or their families may come after the child, even after the adoption is finalized. A few sensationalized cases from a decade or so ago have made many US parents nervous. Add to that movies made that depict birth parents getting out of prison and going after their children, and, well, you can see the concern. With foreign adoptions, there is little to no risk that a birth parent will suddenly appear to take the child back.
Plus, in the US, we know that our orphans are well-cared for, even if they're not in an ideal situation. In places like China, Russia, India, etc., we're led to believe that the orphanages are horrific places that will do serious and permanent damage to the children left there.
Add to that the fact that it's extremely difficult to adopt a very young child in the US. Most are aged five or older, or severely handicapped. Many people are nervous about adopting a child that age because by then, serious emotional damage could have been done that may or may not be something the child can overcome.
There are a lot of factors that go into adopting (age, gender, money, family dynamic, parental age, number of kids already in the house, amount of disability a family can handle), so it's not all that odd that a significant proportion will go beyond the foster care-to-adoption route that is typical here in the states.
Quote from: Martinus on December 28, 2012, 02:40:20 AM
Are there no orphans in the US? :huh:
We don't have enough. :(
Quote from: merithyn on December 28, 2012, 09:37:06 AM
Add to that the fact that it's extremely difficult to adopt a very young child in the US. Most are aged five or older, or severely handicapped. Many people are nervous about adopting a child that age because by then, serious emotional damage could have been done that may or may not be something the child can overcome.
Is it because of paperwork, or because demand is so high?
Quote from: Faeelin on December 28, 2012, 10:29:13 AM
Quote from: merithyn on December 28, 2012, 09:37:06 AM
Add to that the fact that it's extremely difficult to adopt a very young child in the US. Most are aged five or older, or severely handicapped. Many people are nervous about adopting a child that age because by then, serious emotional damage could have been done that may or may not be something the child can overcome.
Is it because of paperwork, or because demand is so high?
Demand is so high. The wait can be as long as five or six years for an infant, and you typically have to have been a foster parent during that time before they'll let you have an infant. That is, unless you go through private adoption, but even that is fraught with struggle. The mother may change her mind, up to six months after the child is born in some states. The cost is usually as high as a foreign adoption, and still carries the risk of the birth parents coming back.
And Yi isn't entirely wrong. Race is a factor, too. There are states with laws that specifically state that a child is to be placed with someone of the same race if at all possible FIRST. So, the state will hold a child in limbo for several months while they try to find an appropriate candidate of the right race. If they can't, then they will allow the child to go to someone else.
A lot of times, to get an infant, you have to agree to taking the infant's elder siblings, because DHS doesn't want to separate families if it can be helped, and it's an easy way to find homes for older kids.
Here's where I should point out that it's been a few years since I looked all of this information up. Things have likely changed since then. My information is from roughly 2008-2009 timeframe.