QuoteSaturday, Dec. 22
Atlanta at Detroit 8:30 pm ESPN Ford Field
Sunday, Dec. 23
Washington at Philadelphia 1:00 pm FOX Lincoln Financial Field
Minnesota at Houston 1:00 pm FOX Reliant Stadium
Indianapolis at Kansas City 1:00 pm CBS Arrowhead Stadium
Buffalo at Miami 1:00 pm CBS Sun Life Stadium
Cincinnati at Pittsburgh 1:00 pm CBS Heinz Field
St. Louis at Tampa Bay 1:00 pm FOX Raymond James Stadium
New Orleans at Dallas 1:00 pm FOX Cowboys Stadium
Tennessee at Green Bay 1:00 pm CBS Lambeau Field
New England at Jacksonville 1:00 pm CBS EverBank Field
Oakland at Carolina 1:00 pm CBS Bank of America Stadium
San Diego at N.Y. Jets 1:00 pm CBS MetLife Stadium
Cleveland at Denver 4:05 pm CBS Sports Authority Field
N.Y. Giants at Baltimore 4:25 pm FOX M&T Bank Stadium
Chicago at Arizona 4:25 pm FOX University of Phoenix Stadium
San Francisco at Seattle 8:20 pm NBC CenturyLink Field
Bob McNair/the Texans are finally putting digital video boards into Reliant. They're both going to be bigger than Jerry's stupid thing, except that they're just replacing what is already in the stadium and are over the endzones instead of the middle of the field. The dimensions are also going to be pretty different. Here's some pictures:
The current things:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.chron.com%2Fultimatetexans%2Ffiles%2F2012%2F12%2F20121123_KatyLRELCROPmCreek-_SNP_02-600x321.jpg&hash=8575214a7e0a6cefe6e5b452a7213fc00ae86fbc)
What the new ones are going to look like:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi45.tinypic.com%2F2rz9r9d.jpg&hash=4bd1f1a181b54cfd0ebbc9c9935b05a62cf5c709)
And a comparison so you can see the size/shape:
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/188xs6i6oc7h2png/original.png
They're only going to be partially used for video, with the rest going to advertisements, etc. Also, if the Texans win tomorrow, they get home field throughout, so that would be good.
Yi's gonna yell at you for not putting up the spreads. :P
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 22, 2012, 07:24:15 PM
Yi's gonna yell at you for not putting up the spreads. :P
You degenerates can get those yourselves. :P
I will not support the dog munchers Gambling addiction.
Poor Lions. They should ask for a secondary for Xmas.
At least Megatron got the record.
The good news: RGIII will play against the Eagles :w00t:
The bad news: the game is on the same time as the cowgirls game so I will not be watching it :cry:
How can he have only 5 touchdowns with those stats? :huh:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 23, 2012, 04:36:28 AM
How can he have only 5 touchdowns with those stats? :huh:
He gets tackled before he runs into the end zone. It isn't uncommon for receivers to have skewed stats like that.
The first year I ever did fantasy football was 1991 I think. You only got points for TDs, no yardage or anything else; 6 points or 0. I had Al Toon on my team and that bastard caught 70+ passes for almost 1,000 yards but didn't score a single TD. He got caught from behind inside the 5 yard line every goddamn game. I hated that piece of shit.
Quote from: sbr on December 23, 2012, 11:20:31 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 23, 2012, 04:36:28 AM
How can he have only 5 touchdowns with those stats? :huh:
He gets tackled before he runs into the end zone. It isn't uncommon for receivers to have skewed stats like that.
The first year I ever did fantasy football was 1991 I think. You only got points for TDs, no yardage or anything else; 6 points or 0. I had Al Toon on my team and that bastard caught 70+ passes for almost 1,000 yards but didn't score a single TD. He got caught from behind inside the 5 yard line every goddamn game. I hated that piece of shit.
If it makes you feel any better he got so many concussions that year he retired the next season. Dude made his living over the middle.
Excessive celebration? Isn't that the same thing that whatshisname in Minnesota does every time he gets a sack?
Ha-- fuck you Big Ben.
Ouch. I guess that's what's you get for gloating. :(
Forbath sets the record for consecutive made FGs to start a NFL career :cool:
Ok now that that is over with maybe the Skins can score a few TDs.
Ah that's the way to break that outside containment. Longhorn Kyle Shanahan dials up another key play call. 13-7 Skins :yeah:
Nice shank by Squeez'em :)
Texans O played like garbage, only converting 1 of 11 3rd downs, and only picking up 11 first downs total. Also turned the ball over twice. 12-3 now, and they have to win in Indy (what a stupid schedule) next week for home field.
I really wish the CBS announcers would get the city the Dolphins play in correctly. Hint: its not fucking Davie. The stadium is 15 miles from Davie.
:punk: Bengals win, Steelers lose. Bengals in the playoffs.
That was a hard-fought defensive game. Looked more like Ravens vs. Steelers than Bengals vs. Steelers most of the time.
I don't care who did it, Bengals or not; if the Ravens are going down the tubes, only fitting the Steelheads go first.
Yeah, I really loved that Bengals-Steelers game. What a war. And as much as I would have liked to see the Ravens clinch without having to actually go through the effort of winning, I'm enjoying the destruction of the the Steelers even more.
And it looks like the Ravens have decided to try, so maybe it won't even matter.
First, take away the touchdown, and then rule an obvious fumble an incomplete pass.
Looks like the league office really needs that New York TV market for the playoffs.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2012, 05:47:17 PM
First, take away the touchdown, and then rule an obvious fumble an incomplete pass.
Looks like the league office really needs that New York TV market for the playoffs.
:yawn:
They need that New York ratings, man.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2012, 05:47:17 PM
First, take away the touchdown, and then rule an obvious fumble an incomplete pass.
Looks like the league office really needs that New York TV market for the playoffs.
And now a 'blindside block' to the middle of the chest that was 'to the head and neck'.
What's with all the bullshit calls?
And then another flag on Oher that should have been on Osi, the very next play.
Quote from: Neil on December 23, 2012, 06:22:43 PM
Looks like the league office really needs that New York TV market for the playoffs.
And now a 'blindside block' to the middle of the chest that was 'to the head and neck'.
What's with all the bullshit calls?[/quote]
Yeah, the head and neck. If he were 5'5".
But hey, I'm just talking crazy talk.
That was an amazing play by Flacco and Pitta.
Joe is making all the throws today. Hope he doesn't use them all up, going to need some of them next week.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2012, 06:31:24 PM
Joe is making all the throws today. Hope he doesn't use them all up, going to need some of them next week.
Will he even play next week?
Quote from: derspiess on December 23, 2012, 06:40:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2012, 06:31:24 PM
Joe is making all the throws today. Hope he doesn't use them all up, going to need some of them next week.
Will he even play next week?
I would imagine so. There's always a chance to move up to 3rd seed.
Quote from: Neil on December 23, 2012, 06:43:41 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 23, 2012, 06:40:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2012, 06:31:24 PM
Joe is making all the throws today. Hope he doesn't use them all up, going to need some of them next week.
Will he even play next week?
I would imagine so. There's always a chance to move up to 3rd seed.
Yeah, I'm sure that they'd much rather be the division champ than the wild-card.
EDIT: well, never mind that. A win today gives them the division title, at least I think that they own the tiebreakers even if they lose to the Bungles next week.
You gotta be kidding me.
Yeah, division record is the top tiebreaker.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2012, 07:17:07 PM
You gotta be kidding me.
Any time that Reed hits someone and their head turns, that flag is coming out.
Quote from: Neil on December 23, 2012, 07:18:19 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2012, 07:17:07 PM
You gotta be kidding me.
Any time that Reed hits someone and their head turns, that flag is coming out.
That was fucking ridiculous, man.
Will be interesting to see the cover of the NY Post tomorrow, though.
Not as ridiculous as that illegal block.
So looking forward to tonight's game. Should be a real slobberknocker.
Oooh, and it's raining!
Katmai, when someone makes a catch like that, it's just not in the cards tonight, bro.
And goddammit, why is it Sunday Night Football the only time I see Wendy's commercials? Pound that little redhead into the consistency of a Frosty.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2012, 08:52:44 PM
Katmai, when someone makes a catch like that, it's just not in the cards tonight, bro.
And goddammit, why is it Sunday Night Football the only time I see Wendy's commercials? Pound that little redhead into the consistency of a Frosty.
I see that temptress every day. I'd stuff her with my mozzarella.
Watching 2 rookies going at it again tonite & with all the success other rookies are having in this Year of the Rookie QB will teams finally figure it out or will they stick to their fail plan of reharshing old failures at that position?
Jesus H Christ, the NFL has become as fucking self-neutered and risk-averse as fucking post-war Germany. Let's start seeing team lederhosen available while we're at it.
And that's game. U MAD BRO?
Only at the NFL. Seattle's a fun team to watch. Can't stand Pete Carroll, though.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2012, 09:19:17 PM
Only at the NFL. Seattle's a fun team to watch. Can't stand Pete Carroll, though.
Yeah? Is it a college thing? I don't really care much for Carroll one way or the other, although I could see how a team could dig his enthusiasm. He kinda reminds me of a Dick Vermeil, what with his unquenchable positive attitude.
Jim Harbaugh, on the other hand, comes of like a bit of a jerk to me. Either way, I like both these teams.
Carroll is kind of a douche too, from what I understand. I guess it just isn't as blatantly obvious with him as it is with Harbaugh though.
Quote from: katmai on December 23, 2012, 12:16:30 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 22, 2012, 11:16:11 PM
At least Megatron got the record.
:ultra:
Wes Welker broke Jerry Rice's record for games with 10+ receptions today, it was his 18th, and last week he became the first player with 5 seasons of 100+ receptions.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 23, 2012, 09:46:06 PM
Quote from: katmai on December 23, 2012, 12:16:30 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 22, 2012, 11:16:11 PM
At least Megatron got the record.
:ultra:
Wes Welker broke Jerry Rice's record for games with 10+ receptions today, it was his 18th, and last week he became the first player with 5 seasons of 100+ receptions.
Yeah, but Welker is a scrub who has no place in the Hall of Fame.
You'd think timmay would break the record with all his we bullshit.
Quote from: Neil on December 23, 2012, 09:31:48 PM
Yeah? Is it a college thing? I don't really care much for Carroll one way or the other, although I could see how a team could dig his enthusiasm. He kinda reminds me of a Dick Vermeil, what with his unquenchable positive attitude.
Jim Harbaugh, on the other hand, comes of like a bit of a jerk to me. Either way, I like both these teams.
Yeah, bit of a college thing, what with the way he hauled ass out of USC right when the Reggie Bush stuff came to light, but he was a douchebag when he coached the Patriots, too; although he probably would've had more success there if Bob Kraft gave him the kind of coaching freedom he's given Belichoke.
He was the one that made the "choke" sign over an opposing kicker that missed an extra point once. Now that's douchebaggy, man.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2012, 10:01:29 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 23, 2012, 09:31:48 PM
Yeah? Is it a college thing? I don't really care much for Carroll one way or the other, although I could see how a team could dig his enthusiasm. He kinda reminds me of a Dick Vermeil, what with his unquenchable positive attitude.
Jim Harbaugh, on the other hand, comes of like a bit of a jerk to me. Either way, I like both these teams.
Yeah, bit of a college thing, what with the way he hauled ass out of USC right when the Reggie Bush stuff came to light, but he was a douchebag when he coached the Patriots, too; although he probably would've had more success there if Bob Kraft gave him the kind of coaching freedom he's given Belichoke.
Or if Tom Brady was on the roster.
Only the pure evil of Belicheat could make a quarterback from Michigan succeed.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2012, 10:06:54 PM
Only the pure evil of Belicheat could make a quarterback from Michigan succeed.
God knows he couldn't do anything with QBs from The U.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2012, 10:01:29 PM
Yeah, bit of a college thing, what with the way he hauled ass out of USC right when the Reggie Bush stuff came to light, but he was a douchebag when he coached the Patriots, too; although he probably would've had more success there if Bob Kraft gave him the kind of coaching freedom he's given Belichoke.
Ah. I don't really follow the college ball, so I can't hold it against him.
QuoteHe was the one that made the "choke" sign over an opposing kicker that missed an extra point once. Now that's douchebaggy, man.
:lol: OK, that's a dick move. Coaches shouldn't be shit-talking players.
Hey, but he got some USC tail. :)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2012, 09:16:58 PM
Jesus H Christ, the NFL has become as fucking self-neutered and risk-averse as fucking post-war Germany. Let's start seeing team lederhosen available while we're at it.
Yeah, that's a big part of why I don't follow the NFL as closely as I used to.
Quote from: sbr on December 23, 2012, 10:12:05 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2012, 10:06:54 PM
Only the pure evil of Belicheat could make a quarterback from Michigan succeed.
God knows he couldn't do anything with QBs from The U.
Who was coaching the 49ers when Dorsey got drafted? LULZ.
Quote from: Neil on December 23, 2012, 10:15:20 PM
Quote from: sbr on December 23, 2012, 10:12:05 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2012, 10:06:54 PM
Only the pure evil of Belicheat could make a quarterback from Michigan succeed.
God knows he couldn't do anything with QBs from The U.
Who was coaching the 49ers when Dorsey got drafted? LULZ.
Dennis Erickson
My daughters and I just spent 10 minutes with the game paused rating the 49ers players 'blackness' on a scale of 0-10. :lol:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2012, 08:52:44 PM
Katmai, when someone makes a catch like that, it's just not in the cards tonight, bro.
And goddammit, why is it Sunday Night Football the only time I see Wendy's commercials? Pound that little redhead into the consistency of a Frosty.
Oh after the thought it was smart to call three straight passes on first possession and then the dumb non calls on Seattle's first i knew it was a done game.
Quote from: Neil on December 23, 2012, 09:55:03 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 23, 2012, 09:46:06 PM
Quote from: katmai on December 23, 2012, 12:16:30 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 22, 2012, 11:16:11 PM
At least Megatron got the record.
:ultra:
Wes Welker broke Jerry Rice's record for games with 10+ receptions today, it was his 18th, and last week he became the first player with 5 seasons of 100+ receptions.
Yeah, but Welker is a scrub who has no place in the Hall of Fame.
Probably won't make the hall, but you can't say he hasn't had a good career.
Quote from: sbr on December 23, 2012, 10:44:27 PM
My daughters and I just spent 10 minutes with the game paused rating the 49ers players 'blackness' on a scale of 0-10. :lol:
:yeahright:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2012, 09:16:58 PM
Jesus H Christ, the NFL has become as fucking self-neutered and risk-averse as fucking post-war Germany. Let's start seeing team lederhosen available while we're at it.
Yeah - I've been actively watching only for the past 10 years or so, but even in that period it's pretty noticeable. And if you watch games from the 80s or 70s it really is a different ballgame.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 24, 2012, 12:31:59 AM
Quote from: sbr on December 23, 2012, 10:44:27 PM
My daughters and I just spent 10 minutes with the game paused rating the 49ers players 'blackness' on a scale of 0-10. :lol:
:yeahright:
We were just finishing dinner when Seattle ran the end-around-pass by Rice. It was almost intercepted by #22 for SF. I said something along the line of '#22 should be put into a camp!'. My 17 year old said something about that being racist and I clarified that I didn't care what color he was he should be gassed for not getting the pick. My oldest wasn't sure that the offending player was black.
It shouldn't be too hard to connect the rest of the dots.
Oregonians are weird.
5 coaches have won 100 NFL games with one team in one decade:
Tom Landry, Don Shula, Tony Dungy, Bill Belichick, Andy Reid.
Quote from: sbr on December 24, 2012, 01:35:03 AM
5 coaches have won 100 NFL games with one team in one decade:
Tom Landry, Don Shula, Tony Dungy, Bill Belichick, Andy Reid.
One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 24, 2012, 01:36:36 AM
One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong.
Well, that one shouldn't dress like a homeless dude while cheating his ass off.
Quote from: Neil on December 23, 2012, 06:43:41 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 23, 2012, 06:40:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2012, 06:31:24 PM
Joe is making all the throws today. Hope he doesn't use them all up, going to need some of them next week.
Will he even play next week?
I would imagine so. There's always a chance to move up to 3rd seed.
Chances of Miami beating the Patriots are pretty low. But I would rather see the Ravens get the third seed than the New England. It might make more sense for the Bengals to rest some starters :hmm:
Meh Dinks wins LFFL 2012. Congrats!
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 24, 2012, 10:25:42 AM
Meh Dinks wins LFFL 2012. Congrats!
Aw it's over? I was just getting good too, wanted to continue the stomping. Back to back 130 point weeks.
Oh well, obligatory you all suck, I'm awesome, dont even bother next year etc. etc. :glare:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 24, 2012, 01:36:36 AM
Quote from: sbr on December 24, 2012, 01:35:03 AM
5 coaches have won 100 NFL games with one team in one decade:
Tom Landry, Don Shula, Tony Dungy, Bill Belichick, Andy Reid.
One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong.
Pretty racist of you to point out that Tony Dungy is a minority, but extremely racist of you to say that a black head coach doesn't belong in the NFL.
Quote from: dps on December 24, 2012, 11:47:33 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 24, 2012, 01:36:36 AM
Quote from: sbr on December 24, 2012, 01:35:03 AM
5 coaches have won 100 NFL games with one team in one decade:
Tom Landry, Don Shula, Tony Dungy, Bill Belichick, Andy Reid.
One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong.
Pretty racist of you to point out that Tony Dungy is a minority, but extremely racist of you to say that a black head coach doesn't belong in the NFL.
:rolleyes:
I am obviously referring to Andy Reid, the only one to never win a Super Bowl.
The only one who brought up race was you.
Tommy Kelly gets kicked by Cam Newton and Kelly gets the penalty as watched perfectly by a ref. Cam later bumps a ref as a fuck you and only gets a penalty and not tossed. I love the NFL. Is it baseball season yet? :bleeding:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn2.sbnation.com%2Fuploads%2Fchorus_image%2Fimage%2F5499443%2Fcamkick.0_standard_730.0.gif&hash=267ebf5f24ad496789f8665114e225b06ac34a8c)
Meh pats game but I'll take it. It'd be great if Houston or Denver lost next week, of course
Hey, it's not like the Patriots get so many wins by playing worth opponents. Goodell's favorite team gets a creampuff schedule every year.
Quote from: Neil on December 25, 2012, 11:54:18 AM
Hey, it's not like the Patriots get so many wins by playing worth opponents. Goodell's favorite team gets a creampuff schedule every year.
you know there's just a formula for scheduling? Six games against other teams in your division, four games against another division in your conference, four against another division in the other conference, and two against teams in your conference that finished in the same position as you in their division.
I do agree though that in retrospect baltimore was a relatively easy opponent ;)
Quote from: Count on December 25, 2012, 12:02:19 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 25, 2012, 11:54:18 AM
Hey, it's not like the Patriots get so many wins by playing worth opponents. Goodell's favorite team gets a creampuff schedule every year.
you know there's just a formula for scheduling? Six games against other teams in your division, four games against another division in your conference, four against another division in the other conference, and two against teams in your conference that finished in the same position as you in their division.
I do agree though that in retrospect baltimore was a relatively easy opponent ;)
I do know that there's a formula for scheduling. That said, the Patriots usually get their more difficult games at home, and play in a division where the other three teams are complete jokes.
Besides, Baltimore crushed the Patriots, and will do so again if they meet in the playoffs.
We've played six playoff teams, won three games and lost three games, two of those loses were by one point.
Ravens - Loss: 31 - 30
Broncos - Win: 31-21
Seahawks - Loss: 24 - 23
Colts - Win: 59 - 24
Texans - Win: 42 - 14
49ers - Loss: 41-34
And you played your heart out in all six of them. :cheers:
Chip Kelly to the Eagles? :hmm:
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/24/report-eagles-to-make-heavy-push-for-chip-kelly/related/
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 25, 2012, 06:04:22 PM
Chip Kelly to the Eagles? :hmm:
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/24/report-eagles-to-make-heavy-push-for-chip-kelly/related/
"Pull a Carroll". lol
Seahawks corner Richard Sherman won his PED appeal. I've only seen it on Twitter but it was Adam Schefter.
The Kansas City Chiefs have 3 more Pro Bowl players than wins (5-2). :D
And more than the 13-2 Falcons.
Bengals only got two in-- the obvious choices of AJ Green and Geno Atkins. I think Andrew Whitworth got screwed but otherwise I'm okay with it.
Quote from: derspiess on December 27, 2012, 12:55:37 PM
Bengals only got two in-- the obvious choices of AJ Green and Geno Atkins. I think Andrew Whitworth got screwed but otherwise I'm okay with it.
Offensive line is sometimes a weird position at the Pro Bowl. The lack of stats mess with the fan vote. A lot of times, you see well-known players from large-market teams.
Quote from: Neil on December 27, 2012, 01:16:29 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 27, 2012, 12:55:37 PM
Bengals only got two in-- the obvious choices of AJ Green and Geno Atkins. I think Andrew Whitworth got screwed but otherwise I'm okay with it.
Offensive line is sometimes a weird position at the Pro Bowl. The lack of stats mess with the fan vote. A lot of times, you see well-known players from large-market teams.
Makes sense. Anyway Whit always seems to get in as an alternate, so he'll probably get in that way this year.
Quote from: sbr on December 27, 2012, 12:40:43 PM
Seahawks corner Richard Sherman won his PED appeal. I've only seen it on Twitter but it was Adam Schefter.
:yeah:
I wonder if he'll tweet a picture of him shit-talking Goodell with 'U MAD BRO?' captioned in? :lol:
Looks like LeBeau doesn't plan to retire after all. Goddamnit.
Quote from: derspiess on December 28, 2012, 09:54:48 AM
Looks like LeBeau doesn't plan to retire after all. Goddamnit.
I guess he'll quit when they take him off Heinz Fied in a hearse.
Quote from: Syt on December 28, 2012, 09:58:19 AM
Quote from: derspiess on December 28, 2012, 09:54:48 AM
Looks like LeBeau doesn't plan to retire after all. Goddamnit.
I guess he'll quit when they take him off Heinz Fied in a hearse.
This is about as bad as it was waiting for Bettis to retire.
Quote from: Neil on December 27, 2012, 01:16:29 PM
Offensive line is sometimes a weird position at the Pro Bowl. The lack of stats mess with the fan vote. A lot of times, you see well-known players from large-market teams.
The presence of stats doesn't really help; hence Arian Foster over CJ Spiller.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2012, 06:07:37 PM
They need that New York ratings, man.
You seriously under-rated the Giants' capacity to screw up a game beyond any official's ability to clean up.
Posted 5 days later because too embarassed to check-in during real time.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 28, 2012, 12:40:34 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 27, 2012, 01:16:29 PM
Offensive line is sometimes a weird position at the Pro Bowl. The lack of stats mess with the fan vote. A lot of times, you see well-known players from large-market teams.
The presence of stats doesn't really help; hence Arian Foster over CJ Spiller.
Name value is worth a lot at every position, but even more at the line.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 28, 2012, 12:40:34 PM
The presence of stats doesn't really help; hence Arian Foster over CJ Spiller.
Did you mean to type something other than Arian Foster there?
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 28, 2012, 01:21:09 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 28, 2012, 12:40:34 PM
The presence of stats doesn't really help; hence Arian Foster over CJ Spiller.
Did you mean to type something other than Arian Foster there?
Hmm let's see.
I was thinking of the guy who has stuggled to get to 4 yds a carry despite running behind a monster line and despite the presence of a strong passing attack. The guy who has half the receiving yards as Spiller despite being targeted more times. The guy who in the last 4 weeks had three games under 50 yards, two of which his team lost.
Hey, yeah, it is Arian Foster.
And just to show no bias here, Victor Cruz is a pretty silly selection. I love the guy but he has piled up receptions by default due to lack of other options, injuries, etc.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 28, 2012, 02:12:01 PM
Hmm let's see.
I was thinking of the guy who has stuggled to get to 4 yds a carry despite running behind a monster line and despite the presence of a strong passing attack. The guy who has half the receiving yards as Spiller despite being targeted more times. The guy who in the last 4 weeks had three games under 50 yards, two of which his team lost.
Hey, yeah, it is Arian Foster.
Wait. So you're basing a pro bowl appearance on the stats from two bad games, plus one he left with an irregular heartbeat? Then you're discounting the fact that the guy has over 1300 yards rushing (2nd in the AFC) and 14TDs (1st in the AFC), and is one of the primary weapons (22+ carries per game, 335 total, also 1st in the AFC) of a 12-3 football team because of something about stats? Sorry guy, Foster has had a legit Pro Bowl season.
E: Monster line? You don't know much about the Texans, do you? The left side, sure, but they don't only run left.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 28, 2012, 02:24:07 PM
Wait. So you're basing a pro bowl appearance on the stats from two bad games, plus one he left with an irregular heartbeat? Then you're discounting the fact that the guy has over 1300 yards rushing (2nd in the AFC) and 14TDs (1st in the AFC), and is one of the primary weapons (22+ carries per game, 335 total, also 1st in the AFC) of a 12-3 football team because of something about stats? Sorry guy, Foster has had a legit Pro Bowl season.
I am basing on the fact that Spiller has had a better season.
For one thing, Spiller has more total yards than Foster despite far fewer touches. For Spiller to get to the same results as Foster, he would have to have another 150-160 touches for a total of negative 40 yards. It's really not close at all.
Carrying the ball a lot is not a positive in and of itself; the results of those carries matter. Yeah Houston is 12-3, and in big part because they have a good line and a first rate QB. So how many backs running in that setting could take some of those carries and eke out 4 yards per rush? My guess is plenty of guys that wouldn't attract Pro Bowl consideration. As for TDs, that is a function of the overall quality of the offense, the number of opportunities to run close to goal line, and the proclivities of the offensive coordinator.
Foster has had a very good year, but it isn't as good as his last couple of years, and its isn't as good as others in the AFC who were passed over.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 28, 2012, 02:17:45 PM
And just to show no bias here, Victor Cruz is a pretty silly selection. I love the guy but he has piled up receptions by default due to lack of other options, injuries, etc.
I was just mentioning that to my wife the other night, and that Roddy White should probably have got that spot. Especially since he'll need something to console him when the Falcons choke out in the divisional round again.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 28, 2012, 02:37:42 PM
I am basing on the fact that Spiller has had a better season.
For one thing, Spiller has more total yards than Foster despite far fewer touches. For Spiller to get to the same results as Foster, he would have to have another 150-160 touches for a total of negative 40 yards. It's really not close at all.
Seems like maybe he should have been given the ball more, so we could actually see how he does instead of just projecting. Until then, he's sitting at 1100 yards and 6TDs, and we know for a fact what Foster can do over those carries. Sorry.
QuoteCarrying the ball a lot is not a positive in and of itself; the results of those carries matter. Yeah Houston is 12-3, and in big part because they have a good line and a first rate QB. So how many backs running in that setting could take some of those carries and eke out 4 yards per rush? My guess is plenty of guys that wouldn't attract Pro Bowl consideration. As for TDs, that is a function of the overall quality of the offense, the number of opportunities to run close to goal line, and the proclivities of the offensive coordinator.
Carrying the ball a lot means he's the starting running back for the Houston Texans, because that's what they do. The results of those carries is 14 TDs and 1300+ yards, along with 12 wins. Nearly everything the Texans do is based off of the run, which this year, means Arian Foster.
You seriously seem to be basing your whole thing around three games and ypc (and pretending that 4ypc is bad somehow). I mean, come on, there's an RB for the Texans has like a 5.9 y/c (63 attempts). If you just project that out like you did with Spiller, that's almost 2,000 yards. You think Justin Forsett is a 2,000 yard back? It just doesn't work like that.
QuoteFoster has had a very good year, but it isn't as good as his last couple of years, and its isn't as good as others in the AFC who were passed over.
Yeah, I mean, being at or near the top of the AFC in nearly every rushing category isn't as good as guys who.....aren't? It's all about 4.0 ypc and three games? This is what should cause him to not be in the Pro Bowl?
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 28, 2012, 03:00:40 PM
Seems like maybe he should have been given the ball more, so we could actually see how he does instead of just projecting. Until then, he's sitting at 1100 yards and 6TDs, and we know for a fact what Foster can do over those carries. Sorry.
I think you are missing a very key point here:
Spiller has MORE yards than Foster. Receiving yards count. They move the team down the field the same way.
So there is no question of "projection" here - Spiller did more to help his team win than Foster did in terms of simple ground gained.
The fact that he did so with far less touches is off course also relevant becuase it means he didn't kill as many drives in the process of gaining those raw yards.
Again - the difference between Foster and Spiller is that Foster had 150+ additional touches for -40 yards. That is not a projection, it is a quantiative fact. Those additional touches by Foster did not contribute to his team's success; they hurt it.
QuoteCarrying the ball a lot means he's the starting running back for the Houston Texans, because that's what they do. The results of those carries is 14 TDs and 1300+ yards, along with 12 wins. Nearly everything the Texans do is based off of the run, which this year, means Arian Foster.
That doesn't make a lot of sense.
The average NFL play gains 5.4 yards and the average run from scrimmage gains 4.3
So a team that runs the ball 335 times should expect (if league average in all respects) to gain 1440 yards. So why is it some extraodinary accomplishment to gain 1328 instead? It isn't. The best that you can really say about it is that the Texans have spent a lot of time with a lead, which has inflated RB carries and arguably supressed YPC accordingly.
When I look at the Texans, I see a team that -- like most NFL teams these days -- passes more than it runs, and gets good results. You can just as easily say that everything Texas does is based off the pass, and that Foster's output benefits from being able to play off the passing threat. On the flip side Arian Foster's mere presence may help the passing game in some unverifiable degree but another factor is a top notch QB, plus Andre Johnson, plus a line that is doing a damn good job of protecting the QB. Foster's own receiving which has been terrific in past year has not been a real contribution this year.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 28, 2012, 04:39:24 PM
I think you are missing a very key point here:
Spiller has MORE yards than Foster. Receiving yards count. They move the team down the field the same way.
So there is no question of "projection" here - Spiller did more to help his team win than Foster did in terms of simple ground gained.
The fact that he did so with far less touches is off course also relevant becuase it means he didn't kill as many drives in the process of gaining those raw yards.
Again - the difference between Foster and Spiller is that Foster had 150+ additional touches for -40 yards. That is not a projection, it is a quantiative fact. Those additional touches by Foster did not contribute to his team's success; they hurt it.
You're kidding, right? You seriously think Foster is
hurting the Texans because he is running a lot? I mean, in the sense that he is probably shortening his career and increasing his risk of injury, you're right, but you're out of your damn mind otherwise.
QuoteThat doesn't make a lot of sense.
The average NFL play gains 5.4 yards and the average run from scrimmage gains 4.3
So a team that runs the ball 335 times should expect (if league average in all respects) to gain 1440 yards. So why is it some extraodinary accomplishment to gain 1328 instead? It isn't. The best that you can really say about it is that the Texans have spent a lot of time with a lead, which has inflated RB carries and arguably supressed YPC accordingly.
Anyway, yeah, the Texans have been running the ball with the lead. Foster has managed 1300+ yards despite running with the lead and burning clock and defenses waiting for him. Funny thing: The Texans lead the league in time of possession. What do you make of that?
QuoteWhen I look at the Texans, I see a team that -- like most NFL teams these days -- passes more than it runs, and gets good results. You can just as easily say that everything Texas does is based off the pass, and that Foster's output benefits from being able to play off the passing threat. On the flip side Arian Foster's mere presence may help the passing game in some unverifiable degree but another factor is a top notch QB, plus Andre Johnson, plus a line that is doing a damn good job of protecting the QB. Foster's own receiving which has been terrific in past year has not been a real contribution this year.
You don't know what you're talking about. Stop. The Texans are 2nd in the league in rushing attempts with 488. They have 518 pass attempts (tied for 17th). The Seahawks are first with 506 attempts, and they run the option, for fucks sake. Houston runs the ball 32-33 times a game and base everything off of that. They pass 33-34 times a game, and throw more PA passes than anyone in the league by a lot, or it was by a lot last time I saw the stat. If you think that's some sort of pass happy team, there's something wrong with you.
Minsky's butthurt that his G men are folding their season like the Jets' pocket.
Yet he's not wrong to say that Spiller is having better season than Foster.
I am not contesting that.
I think Burger makes a reasonable point about run out the clock yards being harder than regular yards.
Well hell, the only time they start all out passing is when they absolutely have to. If it's even kind of close and there's enough time, you can count on running plays. It's been like this ever since Kubiak arrived in Houston, and definitely before Foster. It's not a coincidence that they suddenly started gettin much better when Foster was running. Nothing against Slaton and those other guys or anything.
E: He's certainly not wrong about running with the lead, especially early in the season. They'd go super run heavy in the second half if they had a two or more score lead. It was almost irritating at times, but hey....they chewed clock and won games.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 28, 2012, 05:17:43 PM
I think Burger makes a reasonable point about run out the clock yards being harder than regular yards.
Without a doubt. On the other hand, I definitely buy JR's argument that Spiller's utility catching the ball is an asset. I think that it's a legitimate argument as to which one is having the better season this year, but this is the Pro Bowl. Foster wins because his team wins, he's more of a star, the Texans fans are more motivated right now than the Bills fans and because the stats that people will use to decide are rushing yards and rushing TDs.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 28, 2012, 05:05:59 PM
You're kidding, right? You seriously think Foster is hurting the Texans because he is running a lot?
I think -
compared to Spiller - not only do I think Foster's additional carries were not beneficial, I don't think any reasonable argument can be made to the contrary,
QuoteAnyway, yeah, the Texans have been running the ball with the lead. Foster has managed 1300+ yards despite running with the lead and burning clock and defenses waiting for him. Funny thing: The Texans lead the league in time of possession. What do you make of that?
Exactly what I stated earlier - that could be a factor suppressing Foster's YPC.
But there are a couple of problems. First, Foster's weakest performances in terms of YPC (and generally) came in the Texans three losses - when presumably they were not burning clock.
Second, it kind of undermines the argument for Foster to point out that he gained a significant chunk of his yardage in blow-outs.
In any case I don't think it does much re the argument against Spiller.
QuoteYou don't know what you're talking about. Stop. The Texans are 2nd in the league in rushing attempts with 488. They have 518 pass attempts (tied for 17th). The Seahawks are first with 506 attempts, and they run the option, for fucks sake. Houston runs the ball 32-33 times a game and base everything off of that. They pass 33-34 times a game, and throw more PA passes than anyone in the league by a lot, or it was by a lot last time I saw the stat. If you think that's some sort of pass happy team, there's something wrong with you.
So they pass more than they run. As I said.
The reality in the NFL today is that offenses are based on passing and the run is supportive or complentary. The few offenses that are exceptions prove the rule because they only do so because of personnel deficiencies on the passing side. The Texans aren't an exception - thy run more pass plays and they get a lot more yards through the air than on the ground. They have a lot of rushing attempts because the run more plays generally than most teams and (probably) because they ran a lot this year to chew clock.
The claim that the Texans offense is "based on" the run and that their passing game depends on the run is a claim that cannot be absolutely proven or disproven. But it can be seriously questioned. Schaub's best year in the NFL whether measured by absolute output or rate stats like YPA or completion % was 2009. And in 2009, the Texans had no running attack to speak of - they didn't have a single back clear 450 yards and finished near the bottom in rushing yards and rushing YPC (3.5). So if Schaub's passing depends on the run, he should have struggled, but the fact is that he didn't - the lack of a running game had no discernable effect on the Texans ability to pass. The next year, Foster was a full-time starter, the Texans leaped to 7th in rushing yards and 3rd in YPC - but Schaub - in virtually the same number of passing attempts, had fewer completions and 400 fewer yards. I don't see any basis to conclude that the Texans ability to pass is causually related to the presence of Foster or their running lots of plays on the ground.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 28, 2012, 05:14:43 PM
Minsky's butthurt that his G men are folding their season like the Jets' pocket.
Being not-the-Jets is really the only consolation.
Quoteand because the stats that people will use to decide are rushing yards and rushing TDs.
As they should, since he's a running back, and running the ball is what his primary job is. I do wish they'd use Forsett (or Tate if he isn't broken for once) more though, and give Foster a break. He's big and he doesn't take many big hits, but he's done a lot of running the last three years (940 carries in 44 games, or 21+ per).
Quote from: Neil on December 28, 2012, 05:41:52 PM
Foster wins because his team wins, he's more of a star, the Texans fans are more motivated right now than the Bills fans and because the stats that people will use to decide are rushing yards and rushing TDs.
I'd would supplement with two more things - Foster was terrific in 2010 and 2011 and thus benefits from a halo effect (that's the "star" factor). Also my impression is that Schaub does not get all the respect his performance merits (at least outside of Houston) and thus perversely, credit for Houston's offensive performance tends to flow to the next obvious big performer.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 28, 2012, 05:50:31 PM
Quoteand because the stats that people will use to decide are rushing yards and rushing TDs.
As they should, since he's a running back, and running the ball is what his primary job is. I do wish they'd use Forsett (or Tate if he isn't broken for once) more though, and give Foster a break. He's big and he doesn't take many big hits, but he's done a lot of running the last three years (940 carries in 44 games, or 21+ per).
No, his job is to help the offence win games, usually by moving down the field and scoring points, or by grinding out the clock. Ray Rice makes the Pro Bowl not on his rushing yardage, which is pretty pedestrian for a starting back, but on the 5-700 receiving yards he has every year.
I mean, I guess his job within the Texans scheme can be to run the ball, but some RBs do other things too.
Yeah MBM's attitude makes Roger Craig cry.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 28, 2012, 05:58:00 PM
Quote from: Neil on December 28, 2012, 05:41:52 PM
Foster wins because his team wins, he's more of a star, the Texans fans are more motivated right now than the Bills fans and because the stats that people will use to decide are rushing yards and rushing TDs.
I'd would supplement with two more things - Foster was terrific in 2010 and 2011 and thus benefits from a halo effect (that's the "star" factor). Also my impression is that Schaub does not get all the respect his performance merits (at least outside of Houston) and thus perversely, credit for Houston's offensive performance tends to flow to the next obvious big performer.
I think that the success of Yates last year hurt the respect for Schaub. Two years ago, they were talking about him as being an emerging star QB in the years ahead. Then the third-string guy comes in and plays well, and all of the sudden people are acting like he's just a product of the system. Is Tom Brady a system QB because whatshisname won ten games when Pollard took Brady's knee?
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 28, 2012, 05:45:41 PM
I think - compared to Spiller - not only do I think Foster's additional carries were not beneficial, I don't think any reasonable argument can be made to the contrary,
Foster's "additional" carries are because he plays for the Texans, and his carries per game are just about the same as they have always been (a little higher, and it has actually come down over the last few games. They were running the shit out of Foster and led in attempts per game up until I think the Patriots game). The difference now is they are actually winning games, and at the beginning of the season, winning big, so Foster has been running against stacked defenses and has still been getting his.
QuoteExactly what I stated earlier - that could be a factor suppressing Foster's YPC.
But there are a couple of problems. First, Foster's weakest performances in terms of YPC (and generally) came in the Texans three losses - when presumably they were not burning clock.
Second, it kind of undermines the argument for Foster to point out that he gained a significant chunk of his yardage in blow-outs.
In any case I don't think it does much re the argument against Spiller.
:blink: You realize that they're not going to run much when they're down by 30, and Foster specifically isn't going to run much when he isn't in the game, right? Even the Texans, who, again, are behind only the read option Seahawks in rushing attempts, don't just hold on the the football and grind it out when they're down by a lot. They do that when the games are within reach or they're winning and they need to burn clock.
QuoteSo they pass more than they run. As I said.
The reality in the NFL today is that offenses are based on passing and the run is supportive or complentary. The few offenses that are exceptions prove the rule because they only do so because of personnel deficiencies on the passing side. The Texans aren't an exception - thy run more pass plays and they get a lot more yards through the air than on the ground. They have a lot of rushing attempts because the run more plays generally than most teams and (probably) because they ran a lot this year to chew clock.
Yeah, the Texans base everything on the run. They control the clock, run the ball, and run a shitload of PA off of that. That is seriously what they do, and the guy they use to run the ball, which all that revolves around, tends to be Arian Foster.
QuoteThe claim that the Texans offense is "based on" the run and that their passing game depends on the run is a claim that cannot be absolutely proven or disproven. But it can be seriously questioned. Schaub's best year in the NFL whether measured by absolute output or rate stats like YPA or completion % was 2009. And in 2009, the Texans had no running attack to speak of - they didn't have a single back clear 450 yards and finished near the bottom in rushing yards and rushing YPC (3.5). So if Schaub's passing depends on the run, he should have struggled, but the fact is that he didn't - the lack of a running game had no discernable effect on the Texans ability to pass. The next year, Foster was a full-time starter, the Texans leaped to 7th in rushing yards and 3rd in YPC - but Schaub - in virtually the same number of passing attempts, had fewer completions and 400 fewer yards. I don't see any basis to conclude that the Texans ability to pass is causually related to the presence of Foster or their running lots of plays on the ground.
It's not a claim. It is how they work. Even in 2009, when, as you say, they had some terrible rushing yards, they
still ran the ball 27 times a game. They did that, because the offense revolves around it, including the passing game, which, again, uses more play action than any other team in the league.
QuoteNo, his job is to help the offence win games, usually by moving down the field and scoring points, or by grinding out the clock. Ray Rice makes the Pro Bowl not on his rushing yardage, which is pretty pedestrian for a starting back, but on the 5-700 receiving yards he has every year.
I mean, I guess his job within the Texans scheme can be to run the ball, but some RBs do other things too.
Yes, running the football is the running back's primary job in the Texans scheme, and it should be the first thing voters look at for a running back. Since you bring him up, I actually think it should be more of a tossup between Rice and Spiller than Foster (or Charles) and Spiller.
Quote from: Neil on December 28, 2012, 06:14:36 PM
I think that the success of Yates last year hurt the respect for Schaub. Two years ago, they were talking about him as being an emerging star QB in the years ahead. Then the third-string guy comes in and plays well, and all of the sudden people are acting like he's just a product of the system. Is Tom Brady a system QB because whatshisname won ten games when Pollard took Brady's knee?
For all his heroics last season when Schaub and Leinart went down, TJ just isn't on the same level as the Schaubster, not that that is something I expect from a guy in his second year, of course. I've seen a lot of ideas floated around on various Texans boards talking about drafting Schaub's future replacement and moving on from Yates though, which is interesting. :hmm:
E: By moving on, I mean trade.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 28, 2012, 06:55:29 PM
I've seen a lot of ideas floated around on various Texans boards talking about drafting Schaub's future replacement and moving on from Yates though, which is interesting. :hmm:
My pick is: Derek Carr.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 28, 2012, 06:56:57 PM
My pick is: Derek Carr.
:lol: Give him #8 and watch Reliant burn.