http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/gay-couple-colombia-fire-homosexual-nativity-scene-article-1.1221841
QuoteA gay couple has sparked outrage for displaying a "homosexual nativity scene" in their Colombian home.
Andrés Vásquez and Felipe Cárdenas have come under fire for their all-male manger - where the baby Jesus has two father Josephs and the Virgin Mary is nowhere to be seen.
The country's Catholic Church has labeled the display, in the northern city of Cartagena, as "sacrilege."
And thousands of Colombians have taken to social networking sites to slam the pair, with many saying they show "a lack of respect to God and all Christians."
A Facebook user added, "As much as I support gay rights, this is just stupid on so many levels. If you are a Catholic you have to accept Jesus' parents were Mary and Joseph."
Political analyst Vásquez and entrepreneur Felipe have been together for four years and were united by a civil union, the closest thing to marriage for homosexuals in Colombia, three months ago.
The gay rights activists told the Diario Veloz website that they set up the scene, a picture of which was then posted on Facebook, in the hope that it would help in bringing about reform in the country's gay marriage laws.
A bill to legalize gay marriage is currently being looked at by the country's politicians and has passed the first of four debates. But it has been dubbed as "unconstitutional" by the nation's conservative lawmakers.
Vásquez told the website: 'We did it because we believe in Colombia. We have lived in different cities in the world and we prefer to return to our country.
"We are beginning to build [a better country] through our new union," he said.
I can't tell which side is acting more foolish here. :hmm:
:lol:
The blessed gay virgin?
The Immaculate Adoption.
QuoteThe gay rights activists told the Diario Veloz website that they set up the scene, a picture of which was then posted on Facebook, in the hope that it would help in bringing about reform in the country's gay marriage laws.
Yes, because we all know the best and most effective way to effect social change in a predominantly Catholic country is to alienate a majority of it. :lol:
Why must gays be so...overly demonstrative sometimes? Is it the whole Broadway show tunes thingy? Is that where it all comes from?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 17, 2012, 01:25:26 PM
Why must gays be so...overly demonstrative sometimes? Is it the whole Broadway show tunes thingy? Is that where it all comes from?
I think a more accurate (and less funny) explanation is that once you have decided to stop keeping secrets about yourself, you make a radical overcompensation.
Quote from: garbon on December 17, 2012, 01:27:51 PM
I think a more accurate (and less funny) explanation is that once you have decided to stop keeping secrets about yourself, you make a radical overcompensation.
That's a reasonable theory.
Hopefully it means that as time goes on, and gays are less and less closeted, that fewer of them will end up being inconsiderate jerks.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 17, 2012, 01:42:12 PM
Hopefully it means that as time goes on, and gays are less and less closeted, that fewer of them will end up being inconsiderate jerks.
Agreed, though I think with Christianity it is a two-way street. As long as you have Christians denouncing gays as abominations, you're going to have some section of gays who are inconsiderate towards Christians.
Is it wrong that I giggled? :unsure:
You know, Americans made Jesus et al white. Why can't gays make them, well, gay? Though, admittedly, I'd probably have put the display in my house instead of outside it if I lived in Columbia, but to each their own... :ph34r:
Quote from: merithyn on December 17, 2012, 02:08:26 PM
Is it wrong that I giggled? :unsure:
You know, Americans made Jesus et al white. Why can't gays make them, well, gay? Though, admittedly, I'd probably have put the display in my house instead of outside it if I lived in Columbia, but to each their own... :ph34r:
This is a silly post Meri.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 17, 2012, 02:10:53 PM
Quote from: merithyn on December 17, 2012, 02:08:26 PM
Is it wrong that I giggled? :unsure:
You know, Americans made Jesus et al white. Why can't gays make them, well, gay? Though, admittedly, I'd probably have put the display in my house instead of outside it if I lived in Columbia, but to each their own... :ph34r:
This is a silly post Meri.
:yes:
Needs a live action caganer. :)
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 17, 2012, 02:10:53 PM
Quote from: merithyn on December 17, 2012, 02:08:26 PM
Is it wrong that I giggled? :unsure:
You know, Americans made Jesus et al white. Why can't gays make them, well, gay? Though, admittedly, I'd probably have put the display in my house instead of outside it if I lived in Columbia, but to each their own... :ph34r:
This is a silly post Meri.
It was meant to be. :(
Quote from: merithyn on December 17, 2012, 02:08:26 PM
Is it wrong that I giggled? :unsure:
You know, Americans made Jesus et al white. Why can't gays make them, well, gay? Though, admittedly, I'd probably have put the display in my house instead of outside it if I lived in Columbia, but to each their own... :ph34r:
It's tacky. Injecting issues relevant to yourself deliberately into a religious tableaux, just to raise awareness, generally is tacky. Even if the issue is a good cause.
People make Jesus look northern european because, generally, and rightly or wrongly, they assume he actually looked like that. They often give him flowing robes for the same reason, even though Americans generally don't wear flowing robes.
If someone makes a nativity scene with Mary and Joseph toting M-16s because they are big believers in gun ownership rights, that would also be tacky. Or an obese Joseph and Mary with the gifts of the Magi being Big Macs, to highlight America's obesity problem. ;)
The message in each case is that the issue is more important than the religion, which isn't very respectful ... and despite the fact I'm not Christian, IMO it is good manners to respect other people's ways. It's a kind of trolling not to.
Quote from: Malthus on December 17, 2012, 02:20:00 PM
The message in each case is that the issue is more important than the religion, which isn't very respectful ... and despite the fact I'm not Christian, IMO it is good manners to respect other people's ways. It's a kind of trolling not to.
I don't know. I don't really see a problem with black nativity sets although that's less about trying to stick an issue in people's face and more of a personal preference thing.
I actually think it's good to try to deprogram many people's obviously ridiculous beliefs about the appearance of Jesus. If they saw him as someone who was obviously Semitic they might not be inclined to be racist against various Semitic peoples. :hmm: It would certainly take some of the wind out of the sails of the Christian Identity movement.
Quote from: garbon on December 17, 2012, 02:22:53 PM
Quote from: Malthus on December 17, 2012, 02:20:00 PM
The message in each case is that the issue is more important than the religion, which isn't very respectful ... and despite the fact I'm not Christian, IMO it is good manners to respect other people's ways. It's a kind of trolling not to.
I don't know. I don't really see a problem with black nativity sets although that's less about trying to stick an issue in people's face and more of a personal preference thing.
I don't see Black nativities as a problem either - I agree, that's not about an "issue". I don't see it as attempting to make any point outside of the religion itself.
Unless they are obviously in cartoony "blackface". That would truly be obnoxious. :D
Quote from: Caliga on December 17, 2012, 02:25:32 PM
I actually think it's good to try to deprogram many people's obviously ridiculous beliefs about the appearance of Jesus. If they saw him as someone who was obviously Semitic they might not be inclined to be racist against various Semitic peoples. :hmm: It would certainly take some of the wind out of the sails of the Christian Identity movement.
Yeah, because the Jesus being a Jew thing so gets swept under the rug in Christianity :huh:
And I didn't realize antisemitism was that big of a problem in Christian churches these days.
It's pretty obvious Mary was a surogate and Jesus had two dads - Jahweh and Joseph.
Anyway, unsurprisingly, I don't see an issue. And it's not like Catholics have clean slate when it comes to taking elements from other religions and perverting them to their needs.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 17, 2012, 01:25:26 PMWhy must gays be so...overly demonstrative sometimes? Is it the whole Broadway show tunes thingy? Is that where it all comes from?
I wish gays were more like heterosexuals, who would never tell you uninvited about their families or never carry pictures of their wife and kids in their wallets or display them on their desks at work or anything like that.
Quote from: Martinus on December 17, 2012, 03:17:22 PM
I wish gays were more like heterosexuals, who would never tell you uninvited about their families or never carry pictures of their wife and kids in their wallets or display them on their desks at work or anything like that.
Gays do not carry pictures of their loved ones or have pictures on their desks? I guess every single gay dude I have ever worked with is a strange outlier.
Heck the gay guy in my office even uninvitedly told me about his niece who he and his partner adopted :hmm:
Quote from: Martinus on December 17, 2012, 03:17:22 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 17, 2012, 01:25:26 PMWhy must gays be so...overly demonstrative sometimes? Is it the whole Broadway show tunes thingy? Is that where it all comes from?
I wish gays were more like heterosexuals, who would never tell you uninvited about their families or never carry pictures of their wife and kids in their wallets or display them on their desks at work or anything like that.
I wish you were snuffed out in a violent natural gas incident.
Quote from: Valmy on December 17, 2012, 03:21:43 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 17, 2012, 03:17:22 PM
I wish gays were more like heterosexuals, who would never tell you uninvited about their families or never carry pictures of their wife and kids in their wallets or display them on their desks at work or anything like that.
Gays do not carry pictures of their loved ones or have pictures on their desks? I guess every single gay dude I have ever worked with is a strange outlier.
Heck the gay guy in my office even uninvitedly told me about his niece who he and his partner adopted :hmm:
Well most gays in Poland are not out at the workplace. I suspect Columbia is similar. You guys have a wrong idea about what it means to be gay in most of the modern day world.
Quote from: Martinus on December 17, 2012, 03:26:12 PM
Well most gays in Poland are not out at the workplace. I suspect Columbia is similar. You guys have a wrong idea about what it means to be gay in most of the modern day world.
#1, Yes, we do.
#2, Poland is not the modern day world.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 17, 2012, 03:27:22 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 17, 2012, 03:26:12 PM
Well most gays in Poland are not out at the workplace. I suspect Columbia is similar. You guys have a wrong idea about what it means to be gay in most of the modern day world.
#1, Yes, we do.
#2, Poland is not the modern day world.
Modern day world is the entire world today.
Quote from: Valmy on December 17, 2012, 03:21:43 PM
Gays do not carry pictures of their loved ones or have pictures on their desks? I guess every single gay dude I have ever worked with is a strange outlier.
Heck the gay guy in my office even uninvitedly told me about his niece who he and his partner adopted :hmm:
No joke; hell, we had one executive had more pictures of he and his husband in his office than most people have of their kids.
And cool photos, too. Pics of them at Machu Pichu, pics of them hang gliding, pics of their trip to England, etc. Better than baby pictures. Those things don't go anywhere for the first few months, just lay there, looking at you.
Quote from: Martinus on December 17, 2012, 03:29:29 PM
Modern day world is the entire world today.
Not in that Eastern European asscrack of a country you're in, and you know it.
Quote from: Martinus on December 17, 2012, 03:17:22 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 17, 2012, 01:25:26 PMWhy must gays be so...overly demonstrative sometimes? Is it the whole Broadway show tunes thingy? Is that where it all comes from?
I wish gays were more like heterosexuals, who would never tell you uninvited about their families or never carry pictures of their wife and kids in their wallets or display them on their desks at work or anything like that.
I appreciate that not everyone thinks my kids are as amazing as I do, but why the hell shouldn't I have pictures of my kids on my desk? It's MY desk, and I'm the one who is chained to it.
And the gays around here also have pictures of their kids in their offices too.
Quote from: Martinus on December 17, 2012, 03:26:12 PM
Well most gays in Poland are not out at the workplace. I suspect Columbia is similar. You guys have a wrong idea about what it means to be gay in most of the modern day world.
So people who display pictures of their loved ones are being insensitive to closeted gays who cannot put a picture of their loved one on their desk?
The hoops you will jump through for the right to feel oppressed is really mind boggling.
You guys have to remember that Marti has no loved ones.
:nelson:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 17, 2012, 03:30:41 PM
No joke; hell, we had one executive had more pictures of he and his husband in his office than most people have of their kids.
And cool photos, too. Pics of them at Machu Pichu, pics of them hang gliding, pics of their trip to England, etc. Better than baby pictures. Those things don't go anywhere for the first few months, just lay there, looking at you.
In my experience gays are either one extreme or the other when it comes to picture bling in the office.
Quote from: derspiess on December 17, 2012, 02:44:14 PM
Yeah, because the Jesus being a Jew thing so gets swept under the rug in Christianity :huh:
Jesus wasn't a Jew, he was
murdered by the Jews. :sleep:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 17, 2012, 03:33:35 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 17, 2012, 03:26:12 PM
Well most gays in Poland are not out at the workplace. I suspect Columbia is similar. You guys have a wrong idea about what it means to be gay in most of the modern day world.
So people who display pictures of their loved ones are being insensitive to closeted gays who cannot put a picture of their loved one on their desk?
The hoops you will jump through for the right to feel oppressed is really mind boggling.
I wasn't criticising heterosexuals for doing that, just responding to CdM's claim that gays "show off" their gayness too much.
Quote from: Caliga on December 17, 2012, 03:40:32 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 17, 2012, 02:44:14 PM
Yeah, because the Jesus being a Jew thing so gets swept under the rug in Christianity :huh:
Jesus wasn't a Jew, he was murdered by the Jews. :sleep:
Indeed. :ph34r:
Quote from: Caliga on December 17, 2012, 03:40:32 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 17, 2012, 02:44:14 PM
Yeah, because the Jesus being a Jew thing so gets swept under the rug in Christianity :huh:
Jesus wasn't a Jew, he was murdered by the Jews. :sleep:
I like to take credit for that. :)
Quote from: Malthus on December 17, 2012, 03:51:40 PM
Quote from: Caliga on December 17, 2012, 03:40:32 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 17, 2012, 02:44:14 PM
Yeah, because the Jesus being a Jew thing so gets swept under the rug in Christianity :huh:
Jesus wasn't a Jew, he was murdered by the Jews. :sleep:
I like to take credit for that. :)
The Catholic Church still remembers you in her prayers. :pope:
Quote from: Martinus on December 17, 2012, 03:49:03 PM
just responding to CdM's claim that gays "show off" their gayness too much.
Those assless leather chaps don't fill themselves, you know.
Quote from: Caliga on December 17, 2012, 03:40:32 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 17, 2012, 02:44:14 PM
Yeah, because the Jesus being a Jew thing so gets swept under the rug in Christianity :huh:
Jesus wasn't a Jew, he was murdered by the Jews. :sleep:
:huh:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 17, 2012, 05:51:31 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 17, 2012, 03:49:03 PM
just responding to CdM's claim that gays "show off" their gayness too much.
Those assless leather chaps don't fill themselves, you know.
I don't own any!
:lol:
Quote from: Valmy on December 17, 2012, 03:21:43 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 17, 2012, 03:17:22 PM
I wish gays were more like heterosexuals, who would never tell you uninvited about their families or never carry pictures of their wife and kids in their wallets or display them on their desks at work or anything like that.
Gays do not carry pictures of their loved ones or have pictures on their desks? I guess every single gay dude I have ever worked with is a strange outlier.
Heck the gay guy in my office even uninvitedly told me about his niece who he and his partner adopted :hmm:
Marty has yet to actually meet a real live gay person. What he knows about actual gays comes from some Oscar Wilde plays that were translated in to Polish and edited during the communist era.
Quote from: Razgovory on December 17, 2012, 06:35:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 17, 2012, 03:21:43 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 17, 2012, 03:17:22 PM
I wish gays were more like heterosexuals, who would never tell you uninvited about their families or never carry pictures of their wife and kids in their wallets or display them on their desks at work or anything like that.
Gays do not carry pictures of their loved ones or have pictures on their desks? I guess every single gay dude I have ever worked with is a strange outlier.
Heck the gay guy in my office even uninvitedly told me about his niece who he and his partner adopted :hmm:
Marty has yet to actually meet a real live gay person. What he knows about actual gays comes from some Oscar Wilde plays that were translated in to Polish and edited during the communist era.
Hey now. Marti met me! :angry:
Quote from: AnchorClanker on December 17, 2012, 05:59:55 PM
:huh:
You might think I'm joking (and that's obviously not my opinion), but Princesca and I used to 'subscribe' to a Southern Baptist newsletter (thanks, Mom-in-law!) and there was an editorial in there once about how Jesus wasn't a Jew... he was a Christian! :wacko:
Quote from: Caliga on December 17, 2012, 03:40:32 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 17, 2012, 02:44:14 PM
Yeah, because the Jesus being a Jew thing so gets swept under the rug in Christianity :huh:
Jesus wasn't a Jew, he was murdered by the Jews. :sleep:
Jesus wasn't a Jew; he was a Judean. Jesus was murdered by Romans at the request of the Judeans; however, Jews that were not of the subset of Judeans subject to its procurator were not responsible for the death of Christ. Of note is that Samaritans are sort of the forgotten Jews, although Judeans would say Samaritans were not Jews, and Samaritans would say that the Temple Judeans were not Jews.
Quote from: garbon on December 17, 2012, 06:56:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 17, 2012, 06:35:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 17, 2012, 03:21:43 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 17, 2012, 03:17:22 PM
I wish gays were more like heterosexuals, who would never tell you uninvited about their families or never carry pictures of their wife and kids in their wallets or display them on their desks at work or anything like that.
Gays do not carry pictures of their loved ones or have pictures on their desks? I guess every single gay dude I have ever worked with is a strange outlier.
Heck the gay guy in my office even uninvitedly told me about his niece who he and his partner adopted :hmm:
Marty has yet to actually meet a real live gay person. What he knows about actual gays comes from some Oscar Wilde plays that were translated in to Polish and edited during the communist era.
Hey now. Marti met me! :angry:
Thank you for proving his point.
Quote from: katmai on December 17, 2012, 07:37:19 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 17, 2012, 06:56:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 17, 2012, 06:35:02 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 17, 2012, 03:21:43 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 17, 2012, 03:17:22 PM
I wish gays were more like heterosexuals, who would never tell you uninvited about their families or never carry pictures of their wife and kids in their wallets or display them on their desks at work or anything like that.
Gays do not carry pictures of their loved ones or have pictures on their desks? I guess every single gay dude I have ever worked with is a strange outlier.
Heck the gay guy in my office even uninvitedly told me about his niece who he and his partner adopted :hmm:
Marty has yet to actually meet a real live gay person. What he knows about actual gays comes from some Oscar Wilde plays that were translated in to Polish and edited during the communist era.
Hey now. Marti met me! :angry:
Thank you for proving his point.
Ain't I a real gay?
Well the whole "Gay black Republican", thing is kinda hard to believe.
Quote from: Razgovory on December 17, 2012, 07:49:19 PM
Well the whole "Gay black Republican", thing is kinda hard to believe.
I can't help it that you are close-minded.
Lol, garb passed the Seedy certification process.
Quote
A Facebook user added, "As much as I support gay rights, this is just stupid on so many levels.
This
Quote from: derspiess on December 17, 2012, 08:36:37 PM
Lol, garb passed the Seedy certification process.
I'm not even sure how to react.
Isn't the head of Harvard's divinity school a gay black Baptist Republican? :lol:
Edit: Aww n/m he died last year. :(
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 17, 2012, 09:55:08 PM
Isn't the head of Harvard's divinity school a gay black Baptist Republican? :lol:
Edit: Aww n/m he died last year. :(
Well, with him being a head of divinity school and garbon being a sociologist, you can kinda see why there is a correlation between engaging in a contradictory made up pseudo-science and being a gay black Republican. ;)
Just some relevant Jesus videos...
'Artistic' depiction of Jesus and Mary Magalene (?) on The L Word tv series: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJRPxWoSiaA
Family Guy - Stewie Meets Jesus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo6fGcjgXeY
Quote from: Martinus on December 18, 2012, 02:28:43 AM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 17, 2012, 09:55:08 PM
Isn't the head of Harvard's divinity school a gay black Baptist Republican? :lol:
Edit: Aww n/m he died last year. :(
Well, with him being a head of divinity school and garbon being a sociologist, you can kinda see why there is a correlation between engaging in a contradictory made up pseudo-science and being a gay black Republican. ;)
I'm a sociologist? :huh:
Quote from: Martinus on December 18, 2012, 02:28:43 AM
Well, with him being a head of divinity school and garbon being a sociologist, you can kinda see why there is a correlation between engaging in a contradictory made up pseudo-science and being a gay black Republican. ;)
Sociology shouldn't be talked down to by a lawyer, of all people (real or imagined). You folks are like snake-handlers.
In other news, the nazi Pope blessed the speaker of the Ugandan Parliament who is advocating the "kill the gays" bill, and said that gay marriage is the threat to world peace. This all amid a new investigation in Australia into systemic coverage of pedophilia in the Catholic Church over the last half a century.
Seriously, anyone who is still a Catholic these days must be a piece of shit.
Quote from: Martinus on December 18, 2012, 09:35:50 AM
Seriously, anyone who is still a Catholic these days must be a piece of shit.
You make it very attractive. Shame there aren't more useless ass faggots like you; Mass attendance would skyrocket globally.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 18, 2012, 09:44:53 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 18, 2012, 09:35:50 AM
Seriously, anyone who is still a Catholic these days must be a piece of shit.
You make it very attractive. Shame there aren't more useless ass faggots like you; Mass attendance would skyrocket globally.
Hell, even I'm thinking of going now :hmm:
Quote from: derspiess on December 18, 2012, 10:39:43 AM
Hell, even I'm thinking of going now :hmm:
Wear knee pads. :secret:
No worries Yi, spiess is post-pubescent. :)
Quote from: Caliga on December 18, 2012, 10:53:25 AM
No worries Yi, spiess is post-pubescent. :)
I don't get it. :huh:
The mackeral snappers still make post-pubescents kneel every five minutes.
Eureka! Altar boy fellatio innuendo. :thumbsup:
Btw I'm not really going Catholic, Yi :secret:
Quote from: derspiess on December 18, 2012, 11:04:47 AM
Btw I'm not really going Catholic, Yi :secret:
Like we would want you, you've been tainted. :rolleyes:
I would think that Martinus would love the Catholic Church, what with all those gay priests they have.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 18, 2012, 11:03:06 AM
Quote from: Caliga on December 18, 2012, 10:53:25 AM
No worries Yi, spiess is post-pubescent. :)
I don't get it. :huh:
The mackeral snappers still make post-pubescents kneel every five minutes.
Eureka! Altar boy fellatio innuendo. :thumbsup:
No, Cal didn't get it.
Quote from: Scipio on December 17, 2012, 07:24:55 PM
Quote from: Caliga on December 17, 2012, 03:40:32 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 17, 2012, 02:44:14 PM
Yeah, because the Jesus being a Jew thing so gets swept under the rug in Christianity :huh:
Jesus wasn't a Jew, he was murdered by the Jews. :sleep:
Jesus wasn't a Jew; he was a Judean.
If Jesus was not a Jew (assuming for the moment that he actually lived as the Gospels say he did) then what religion did he belong to?
I suppose you answer would have to be Jesus was not a Jew he was God.
Quote from: garbon on December 17, 2012, 01:27:51 PM
I think a more accurate (and less funny) explanation is that once you have decided to stop keeping secrets about yourself, you make a radical overcompensation.
Mmmm. I went the opposite way. Reveal the one big, obvious thing and then
bottle everything else all up. So far, so good :)
I'm not keen on people having personal pictures on their desks regardless of sexuality.
Jesus was obviously a Jew.
Some cross worshippers get super angry at that suggestion though. Silly religos.
Quote
Seriously, anyone who is still a Catholic these days must be a piece of shit.
Do whatever the hell you like and as long as you say sorry you get into heaven- if you must believe in the whole jesussy-goddy-thing then Catholicism seems one of the best ways to do it.
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 18, 2012, 08:21:40 PM
Quote from: garbon on December 17, 2012, 01:27:51 PM
I think a more accurate (and less funny) explanation is that once you have decided to stop keeping secrets about yourself, you make a radical overcompensation.
Mmmm. I went the opposite way. Reveal the one big, obvious thing and then bottle everything else all up. So far, so good :)
We can't all be English. :P