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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: viper37 on November 13, 2012, 12:00:39 PM

Title: Texas independance
Post by: viper37 on November 13, 2012, 12:00:39 PM
It's 1861 all over again! :)

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/texas-petition-secede-reaches-threshold-obama-comment/story?id=17701519

Apparently, the petition has enough signatures to mandate a response from the White House.
I wonder if these are the same guys:
http://www.texasnationalist.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=129
some issue dating from the Civil War (no not slavery :P )

Let's say the White House declares the Texans have the right to negotiate their independance (unlikely, but let's play).  How would that proceed?  The Governor would negotiate with Congress?   Would it require 2/3 of the States to agree with Texas independance?
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Ed Anger on November 13, 2012, 12:01:45 PM
Nothing is going to happen.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Valmy on November 13, 2012, 12:07:40 PM
Nothing is going to happen.  A couple internet dudes clicking a link is not significant in any way.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Ed Anger on November 13, 2012, 12:09:22 PM
I might make a petition demanding I be named galactic emperor.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: garbon on November 13, 2012, 12:17:54 PM
Thanks for making another thread on this important topic. :P
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Tamas on November 13, 2012, 12:46:00 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 13, 2012, 12:17:54 PM
Thanks for making another thread on this important topic. :P

Srsly. One of the things society needs to learn in this new Age of the Internet is that it takes no effort whatsoever to unite the most lunatic 0.5% of your country so you really shouldn't give a rat's ass about stunts like this.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Viking on November 13, 2012, 12:46:56 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 13, 2012, 12:09:22 PM
I might make a petition demanding I be named galactic emperor.


You'd probably get the signatures...
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: 11B4V on November 13, 2012, 01:18:40 PM
It's horseshit and a bunch of sore losers. If the south tries it again. They will get crushed.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 13, 2012, 01:24:11 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 13, 2012, 01:18:40 PM
It's horseshit and a bunch of sore losers. If the south tries it again. They will get crushed.

Except this time we've got New York, New Jersey, Oregon and Colorado joining us.  :P
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: 11B4V on November 13, 2012, 01:34:44 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 13, 2012, 01:24:11 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 13, 2012, 01:18:40 PM
It's horseshit and a bunch of sore losers. If the south tries it again. They will get crushed.

Except this time we've got New York, New Jersey, Oregon and Colorado joining us.  :P

Possessive..hmmm. You dont like black people? :huh:
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: mongers on November 13, 2012, 02:32:02 PM
4 Es, 3Ns, 2Ds, an I, a C and a P.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: crazy canuck on November 13, 2012, 02:38:32 PM
How many people will hold up in the Alamo this time?
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: mongers on November 13, 2012, 02:43:39 PM
This is annoying because one of those books I had as a kid about useless facts, I'm sure said something about Texas having the right to secede by treaty or turn itself into up to 7 separate states within the USA.   :(
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Viking on November 13, 2012, 02:46:12 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 13, 2012, 02:43:39 PM
This is annoying because one of those books I had as a kid about useless facts, I'm sure said something about Texas having the right to secede by treaty or turn itself into up to 7 separate states within the USA.   :(

iirc it is 5 and the state is vermont.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 13, 2012, 02:48:58 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 13, 2012, 01:34:44 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 13, 2012, 01:24:11 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 13, 2012, 01:18:40 PM
It's horseshit and a bunch of sore losers. If the south tries it again. They will get crushed.

Except this time we've got New York, New Jersey, Oregon and Colorado joining us.  :P

Possessive..hmmm. You dont like black people? :huh:

I identify as being part of "the south". At least for now. :shifty:
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Valmy on November 13, 2012, 02:57:13 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 13, 2012, 02:43:39 PM
This is annoying because one of those books I had as a kid about useless facts, I'm sure said something about Texas having the right to secede by treaty or turn itself into up to 7 separate states within the USA.   :(

The crazy nutters from the Republic of Texas took the US to court...in the UN or something some international court...and lost a few years back I believe.  No State has the right to secede.  Once you join you are in.  Sorry Kingdom of Hawaii and Republic of Lakota people.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: viper37 on November 13, 2012, 03:03:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 13, 2012, 12:07:40 PM
Nothing is going to happen.  A couple internet dudes clicking a link is not significant in any way.
wich is what I said by "Unlikely to happen".  I should have said "won't happen".  I am only interested in knowing how that would procede for a State to leave the union.  It can't unilateraly withdraw.  Wich means there must be negociations.  In a fictionnal US, how would that happen?
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Habbaku on November 13, 2012, 03:10:41 PM
What kind of dance?
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Valmy on November 13, 2012, 04:54:04 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 13, 2012, 03:03:35 PM
In a fictionnal US, how would that happen?

Well our only model so far is you have a vote on it and if it passes you form an armed mob and seize all Federal Property.  If it doesn't pass you wait a bit, then march on the State Capitol and the tear down the US flag and vote again.  I am not sure how negotiations would go.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: viper37 on November 13, 2012, 07:04:53 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 13, 2012, 04:54:04 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 13, 2012, 03:03:35 PM
In a fictionnal US, how would that happen?

Well our only model so far is you have a vote on it and if it passes you form an armed mob and seize all Federal Property.  If it doesn't pass you wait a bit, then march on the State Capitol and the tear down the US flag and vote again.  I am not sure how negotiations would go.
I guess it would be treated like any kind of modification to the Constitution, no?
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Razgovory on November 13, 2012, 07:09:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 13, 2012, 04:54:04 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 13, 2012, 03:03:35 PM
In a fictionnal US, how would that happen?

Well our only model so far is you have a vote on it and if it passes you form an armed mob and seize all Federal Property.  If it doesn't pass you wait a bit, then march on the State Capitol and the tear down the US flag and vote again.  I am not sure how negotiations would go.

General Lyon shoots your ass in the street.  Then you either flee to Mexico or he hangs you.  That's how the negotiations would go.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: PDH on November 13, 2012, 07:59:13 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 13, 2012, 07:09:32 PM

General Lyon

:wub:
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Sheilbh on November 14, 2012, 01:15:44 AM
I think the only states that would enjoy Texan secession more are the other 49 states who'd have the opportunity to beat Texas down :lol:
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Razgovory on November 14, 2012, 01:23:00 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 14, 2012, 01:15:44 AM
I think the only states that would enjoy Texan secession more are the other 49 states who'd have the opportunity to beat Texas down :lol:

This is probably true. :lol:  Texans can be insufferable.  We should spare Austin.  I hear it has a good music scene and I think Valmy lives there.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Siege on November 14, 2012, 01:33:50 AM
I like Texans.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 14, 2012, 07:42:05 AM
They have some good food.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: dps on November 14, 2012, 09:54:06 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 13, 2012, 03:03:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 13, 2012, 12:07:40 PM
Nothing is going to happen.  A couple internet dudes clicking a link is not significant in any way.
wich is what I said by "Unlikely to happen".  I should have said "won't happen".  I am only interested in knowing how that would procede for a State to leave the union.  It can't unilateraly withdraw.  Wich means there must be negociations.  In a fictionnal US, how would that happen?

No, it wouldn't require negotiations.  It would require winning a civil war.  We've sort of already established that.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Valmy on November 14, 2012, 09:58:09 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 14, 2012, 01:23:00 AM
This is probably true. :lol:  Texans can be insufferable.  We should spare Austin.  I hear it has a good music scene and I think Valmy lives there.

Yeah I have not checked the locations of the people signing this petition but I bet alot of them are signing it just for that reason.

And frankly if they do secede I hope Austin gets to remain behind.  We should be our own state.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: garbon on November 14, 2012, 10:08:31 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 14, 2012, 09:58:09 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 14, 2012, 01:23:00 AM
This is probably true. :lol:  Texans can be insufferable.  We should spare Austin.  I hear it has a good music scene and I think Valmy lives there.

Yeah I have not checked the locations of the people signing this petition but I bet alot of them are signing it just for that reason.

And frankly if they do secede I hope Austin gets to remain behind.  We should be our own state.

So you like microstates but not micronations?
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 14, 2012, 10:19:07 AM
Probably be bigger than Rhode Island.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: garbon on November 14, 2012, 10:28:56 AM
Pretty sure that wouldn't be true.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Valmy on November 14, 2012, 10:46:51 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2012, 10:08:31 AM
So you like microstates but not micronations?

My jokes about my civic pride in Austin and contempt for the rest of the State may not be designed to be entirely consistent with my political ideas, being jokes and all.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: viper37 on November 14, 2012, 11:24:16 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 14, 2012, 01:23:00 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 14, 2012, 01:15:44 AM
I think the only states that would enjoy Texan secession more are the other 49 states who'd have the opportunity to beat Texas down :lol:

This is probably true. :lol:  Texans can be insufferable.  We should spare Austin.  I hear it has a good music scene and I think Valmy lives there.
My cousin was asked to play there.  So, no, it does not have a good music scene by any definition of 'music'.  Computer generated noise in not music.   :yuk:
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Razgovory on November 14, 2012, 11:26:28 AM
Maybe it's better when your cousin isn't there.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: viper37 on November 14, 2012, 11:31:09 AM
Quote from: dps on November 14, 2012, 09:54:06 AM
No, it wouldn't require negotiations.  It would require winning a civil war.  We've sort of already established that.
They seceded and then tried to seize Federal property.  It hardly sets a precedent.
The secession was judged illegal because there wasn't anything in the Constitution supporting it.  Lots of things were not in the Constitution, many amendments were passed.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: viper37 on November 14, 2012, 11:36:32 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 14, 2012, 11:26:28 AM
Maybe it's better when your cousin isn't there.
If there's a metal scene, it's good.  If no, they have no musical tastes.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Razgovory on November 14, 2012, 11:38:47 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 14, 2012, 11:36:32 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 14, 2012, 11:26:28 AM
Maybe it's better when your cousin isn't there.
If there's a metal scene, it's good.  If no, they have no musical tastes.

Fuck that noise.  Give me some Rhythm and Blues anytime.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 14, 2012, 03:50:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2012, 10:08:31 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 14, 2012, 09:58:09 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 14, 2012, 01:23:00 AM
This is probably true. :lol:  Texans can be insufferable.  We should spare Austin.  I hear it has a good music scene and I think Valmy lives there.

Yeah I have not checked the locations of the people signing this petition but I bet alot of them are signing it just for that reason.

And frankly if they do secede I hope Austin gets to remain behind.  We should be our own state.

So you like microstates but not micronations?
I think Texas has the right to break into smaller states doesn't it?
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: mongers on November 14, 2012, 04:06:13 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on November 14, 2012, 03:50:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2012, 10:08:31 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 14, 2012, 09:58:09 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 14, 2012, 01:23:00 AM
This is probably true. :lol:  Texans can be insufferable.  We should spare Austin.  I hear it has a good music scene and I think Valmy lives there.

Yeah I have not checked the locations of the people signing this petition but I bet alot of them are signing it just for that reason.

And frankly if they do secede I hope Austin gets to remain behind.  We should be our own state.

So you like microstates but not micronations?
I think Texas has the right to break into smaller states doesn't it?

Yeah I was asking about this earlier in the thread, I'd read about it as a child and wonder what the truth was.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Valmy on November 14, 2012, 04:31:17 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on November 14, 2012, 03:50:11 PM
I think Texas has the right to break into smaller states doesn't it?

Ok my memory of this is rather spotty so I could be wrong in the specifics but here goes:

This provision had to do with slavery and was because at the time of annexation few Texans were slave holders and a piece of Texas' claimed territory was north of the Missouri compromise line.  The idea was, in order to keep the compromise line intact and to keep the balance of states even, to form a free state out of Texas territory north of the line and then split the southern part into two slave states and another free state.  But this was all scraped in 1850 since the Compromise of 1850 and the admission of California as a free state nuked the Missouri compromise and made the whole scheme unnecessary.  Another factor was once Texas became part of the Union slaves owners and their slaves swarmed in for the cheap land and eliminated the prospect of carving any free states out of Texas anyway.  Of course we could still do it if both the Texas Congress and US Congress agreed to split the state up but that is true for every state under the US Constitution.

So anyway it was just an odd provision that was never a right of Texas anyway.  It was just a statement that 'we might do this if we have to' to resolve the issues around slavery.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Phillip V on November 15, 2012, 11:17:06 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/306007_485057961517212_551768459_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Razgovory on November 15, 2012, 11:50:47 AM
Um thanks, Phil.  I'm sure everyone on this board appreciates that contribution as much as I do.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 15, 2012, 11:57:51 AM
Maybe he was hypnotized by the boobies.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: 11B4V on November 15, 2012, 12:13:12 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 15, 2012, 11:57:51 AM
Maybe he was hypnotized by the boobies.

I was
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Ed Anger on November 15, 2012, 12:16:35 PM
Speaking of Texas independence, I enjoyed Columbia' Texas Glory game. Rules simple enough a woman can grasp them.
Title: Re: Texas independance
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 15, 2012, 01:14:09 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 15, 2012, 11:50:47 AM
Um thanks, Phil.  I'm sure everyone on this board appreciates that contribution as much as I do.
If not more.