Languish.org

General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: merithyn on November 07, 2012, 06:02:25 PM

Poll
Question: How would you define your political views?
Option 1: Fiscal Conservative/Social Conservative
Option 2: Fiscal Conservative/Social Liberal
Option 3: Fiscal Liberal/Social Conservative
Option 4: Fiscal Liberal/Social Liberal
Option 5: Other - please explain
Title: Your political bent
Post by: merithyn on November 07, 2012, 06:02:25 PM
A conversation at work had me wondering where the people of Languish fall on these things. If you don't identify with any of the above, please explain how you do identify yourself regarding fiscal and social policies.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Ed Anger on November 07, 2012, 06:07:36 PM
Fiscally conservative. Usually.

Socially liberal. Mostly.

Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 07, 2012, 06:11:59 PM
Fiscal center-left, civil libertarian
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: merithyn on November 07, 2012, 06:17:27 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 07, 2012, 06:11:59 PM
Fiscal center-left, civil libertarian

Yeah, I realized after I made the poll that I consider myself more of a fiscal moderate than conservative or liberal, probably leaning more left than right. I probably should have put that in there somehow.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: dps on November 07, 2012, 06:20:44 PM
Hawkish on foreign affairs and defense, moderately conservative on social issues, extremely conservative to reactionary on economic except that I support free trade.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Neil on November 07, 2012, 06:25:42 PM
Whiggish.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: mongers on November 07, 2012, 06:44:43 PM
One nation Tory.  :bowler:
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Viking on November 07, 2012, 06:54:46 PM
Fiscal Liberal - I'm for free trade and free markets and against protectionism and mercantilism.
Social Liberal - What you do in the privacy of your own home and who you choose to do with it is not my business.


I take my terminology from John Stuart Mill and Friedrich Hayek, not american B-Movie actors and revival charlatans.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Tonitrus on November 07, 2012, 06:57:28 PM
I am still generally conservative/libertarian on fiscal issues, mostly libertarian on social issues.  I've also grown to think that health-care is one of those things that should become an essential government service/infrastructure (like roads, highways, etc).  I don't think we should a total government system like the UK, but more of the hybrid system that Canada has.  Though with Medicare/Medicaid, we have a hybrid system too, it's just ours is more half-assed than hybrid.

Doctors should still be able to run private clinics if they choose, and charge what they like...and while this means the rich will still get better health care, well, face it..the rich get better everything as it is. 
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Queequeg on November 07, 2012, 07:00:03 PM
Fiscal moderate, social liberal.  I tend to vote straight Democrat, so effective fiscal liberal, social liberal.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Iormlund on November 07, 2012, 07:07:21 PM
Fiscal pragmatic, social liberal.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Sheilbh on November 07, 2012, 07:27:52 PM
Blairite ultra.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: crazy canuck on November 07, 2012, 07:28:50 PM
Fiscal Conservative/Social Liberal  like most Canadians not tainted by the NDP
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Sheilbh on November 07, 2012, 07:29:39 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on November 07, 2012, 06:57:28 PM
Doctors should still be able to run private clinics if they choose, and charge what they like...and while this means the rich will still get better health care, well, face it..the rich get better everything as it is.
Just to say doctors can do this in the UK and we do have private health insurance.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Legbiter on November 07, 2012, 07:38:49 PM
I'm in exile as a stolid social democrat since my local center-right party should be nuked from orbit just to make sure.  :mad:
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Neil on November 07, 2012, 07:44:29 PM
I would like to think that I could be socially liberal, but because that has such a destructive effect on society, I can't manage it.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Viking on November 07, 2012, 07:44:34 PM
Quote from: Legbiter on November 07, 2012, 07:38:49 PM
I'm in exile as a stolid social democrat since my local center-right party should be nuked from orbit just to make sure.  :mad:

Yeah, those guys managed to turn me into a social democrat as well. Then I spent the summer of 1989 in china and my whole view on life changed.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: PDH on November 07, 2012, 08:15:25 PM
I am a Jacobin when it suits me.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: katmai on November 07, 2012, 08:21:15 PM
:AWTP:
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 07, 2012, 08:58:37 PM
My political bent is broken.

Big government, big labor, big defense, save the environment, kill Islamists, Chinese and fetuses.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: dps on November 07, 2012, 09:01:21 PM
Quote from: katmai on November 07, 2012, 08:21:15 PM
:AWTP:

Wonder how many people still remember that?
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Strix on November 07, 2012, 09:17:48 PM
Fiscally conservative but socially it varies from issue to issue. I am liberal on somethings (gay marriage and abortions for example) while conservative on others (crime).
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: MadImmortalMan on November 07, 2012, 09:21:35 PM
Socially liberal. Fiscally pragmatic.  :)
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: celedhring on November 07, 2012, 09:24:53 PM
Socially liberal, fiscally socialdemocrat. But I go full blown socialist under a Full Moon.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: katmai on November 07, 2012, 09:35:43 PM
Quote from: dps on November 07, 2012, 09:01:21 PM
Quote from: katmai on November 07, 2012, 08:21:15 PM
:AWTP:

Wonder how many people still remember that?

I only know of two others... :ph34r:
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Valmy on November 07, 2012, 11:36:50 PM
I am pro-violent revolution when the rights of the people are denied them by kings and tyrants.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Sheilbh on November 07, 2012, 11:48:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2012, 11:36:50 PM
I am pro-violent revolution when the rights of the people are denied them by kings and tyrants.
....So I'll put you down as a Lib Dem.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 07, 2012, 11:52:12 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2012, 11:36:50 PM
I am pro-violent revolution when the rights of the people are denied them by kings and tyrants.

Oh, sure...but when I say it, I'm a Black Panther.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: garbon on November 07, 2012, 11:53:49 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 07, 2012, 11:52:12 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2012, 11:36:50 PM
I am pro-violent revolution when the rights of the people are denied them by kings and tyrants.

Oh, sure...but when I say it, I'm a Black Panther.

Wigger at best.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Camerus on November 07, 2012, 11:55:09 PM
Centrist both politically and economically, at least within the librul Canadian context.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: garbon on November 07, 2012, 11:55:42 PM
Quote from: mongers on November 07, 2012, 11:54:18 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 07, 2012, 11:48:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 07, 2012, 11:36:50 PM
I am pro-violent revolution when the rights of the people are denied them by kings and tyrants.
....So I'll put you down as a Lib Dem.

That's one of the most insulting things I've ever seen posted here.

Might I suggest glasses with a strong prescription?
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 07, 2012, 11:56:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 07, 2012, 11:53:49 PM
Wigger at best.

I like the concept of controlled detonations in certain financial districts, not 3' spoilers on dropped Hyundai Tiburons.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: garbon on November 07, 2012, 11:58:43 PM
Sounds like that would really get the economy going.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 08, 2012, 12:07:00 AM
It would certainly add some spice to getting in those pre-market open orders on time.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: garbon on November 08, 2012, 12:09:50 AM
I'm glad instead that you just post furiously in your little suburb.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 08, 2012, 12:17:04 AM
Montana cabins don't have FIOS.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Barrister on November 08, 2012, 12:17:59 AM
I consider myself to be... a conservative.   :cool:
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Lettow77 on November 08, 2012, 12:20:06 AM
 I find it interesting there is an even split on fiscal issues, but social conservatism is a tiny fringe. I am even more surprised that the combination of fiscal liberal/socially conservative is more common than just conservative/conservative, given how little either party has to offer fiscal liberal/social conservative folks.

Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Cecil on November 08, 2012, 03:20:56 AM
Quote from: Viking on November 07, 2012, 06:54:46 PM
Fiscal Liberal - I'm for free trade and free markets and against protectionism and mercantilism.
Social Liberal - What you do in the privacy of your own home and who you choose to do with it is not my business.


I take my terminology from John Stuart Mill and Friedrich Hayek, not american B-Movie actors and revival charlatans.

+1  :)
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Tamas on November 08, 2012, 04:15:50 AM
After 80 years of Keynesiasm, what is "fiscally conservative"? When does the welfare state become the conservative option?
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Tamas on November 08, 2012, 04:16:29 AM
Quote from: Cecil on November 08, 2012, 03:20:56 AM
Quote from: Viking on November 07, 2012, 06:54:46 PM
Fiscal Liberal - I'm for free trade and free markets and against protectionism and mercantilism.
Social Liberal - What you do in the privacy of your own home and who you choose to do with it is not my business.


I take my terminology from John Stuart Mill and Friedrich Hayek, not american B-Movie actors and revival charlatans.

+1  :)

yeah, this
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: merithyn on November 08, 2012, 09:35:19 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 08, 2012, 04:15:50 AM
After 80 years of Keynesiasm, what is "fiscally conservative"? When does the welfare state become the conservative option?

In the US? Not ever. :P
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on November 08, 2012, 09:51:56 AM
Fiscally conservative, I should mention by the way you can be fiscally conservative without being economically conservative. Fiscal policy is only a part of economic policy. (I'm pretty conservative on most economic issues, though.)

Socially I'm disinterested mostly, so I voted other overall. I don't really care that much about abortion or gay marriage. But I wouldn't call myself socially liberal just because of that. I'm hard line on some social issues like crime for example. I don't really vote on social issues, for me it's more economy with a splash of foreign policy.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Viking on November 08, 2012, 10:13:14 AM
Quote from: merithyn on November 08, 2012, 09:35:19 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 08, 2012, 04:15:50 AM
After 80 years of Keynesiasm, what is "fiscally conservative"? When does the welfare state become the conservative option?

In the US? Not ever. :P

Burkean Conservatism asserts that existing institutions are of value and should be supported until an alternative which is both clearly better and has overwhelming support in society is available. The very idea of conservatism says nothing about taxes or religion or whatever. Modern american self identified conservatives are reactionary radicals with regards to religion and radical opponents of taxation and the very idea of government. There is nothing remotely conservative about either position.

The opposite of Conservative is Radical, not Liberal.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: viper37 on November 08, 2012, 11:18:27 AM
Quote from: merithyn on November 07, 2012, 06:02:25 PM
A conversation at work had me wondering where the people of Languish fall on these things. If you don't identify with any of the above, please explain how you do identify yourself regarding fiscal and social policies.
Sometimes, I feel like I'm alone in my corner.
Social liberal & fiscal conservative.


  • I like democracy, so I can't be in the same corner as Neil.
  • I think submiting to a foreign non elected sovereign is retarded, so I'm either more Canadian than CC, or more American than most of my canadien compatriots
  • I have a lot of concerns about the proximity of religion and politics, so I'm not totally with BB who's more tolerant of this than me.
  • I don't think research and development should be left exclusively to the private sector, or even exclusively to the universities and I don't think the government should cut financing to Universities that don't do enough applied research instead of fundamental research.
  • I think the very rich people should pay a little ore taxes, due to the way certain incomes are taxed, to avoid double-taxation, it results in an heavy distortion when you reache they very top earners are taxed. 
  • I also believe that nearly everyone (above 18yo and able to work) should pay so form of tax, to avoid creating a class of "free riders" who constantly ask for more.
  • I think wellfare should be time limited. No more than 5 consecutive years.
  • I think with severe physical disabilities should receive more government funding to stay at home rather than force them into hospitals or long terme care institutions.
  • I think people with severe mental problems who may pose a threat to the general population should be put on closer watch once they are out of they psychiatric hospital.
  • I am agains conscription
  • I believe in a small central government to coordinate efforts from member states rather than a big, bloated and heavily centralized federal government.  That thought sends most Canadians into an anti-seperatist frenzy
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Neil on November 08, 2012, 11:22:45 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 08, 2012, 11:18:27 AM
Quote from: merithyn on November 07, 2012, 06:02:25 PM
A conversation at work had me wondering where the people of Languish fall on these things. If you don't identify with any of the above, please explain how you do identify yourself regarding fiscal and social policies.
Sometimes, I feel like I'm alone in my corner.
Social liberal & fiscal conservative.

I like democracy, so I can't be in the same corner as Neil.
I have a lot of concerns about the proximity of religion and politics, so I'm not totally with BB who's more tolerant of this than me.
I don't think research and development should be left exclusively to the private sector, or even exclusively to the universities and I don't think the government should cut financing to Universities that don't do enough applied research instead of fundamental research.
You have problems with the proximity of religion and politics... in Canada?  :huh:

And no, you can't be in the same corner as me.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 08, 2012, 11:24:30 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 08, 2012, 11:18:27 AM
I feel like I'm alone in my corner.
Social liberal & fiscal conservative.

:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Grey Fox on November 08, 2012, 11:39:29 AM
Social Liberal & Fiscal Communist.

One Union to rule them all, One FTQ to bind them!
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: viper37 on November 08, 2012, 03:23:25 PM
Quote from: Neil on November 08, 2012, 11:22:45 AM
You have problems with the proximity of religion and politics... in Canada?  :huh:
Those medals given to anti-abortion activists jailed for their crimes...

Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: viper37 on November 08, 2012, 03:26:48 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 08, 2012, 11:24:30 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 08, 2012, 11:18:27 AM
I feel like I'm alone in my corner.
Social liberal & fiscal conservative.

:rolleyes:
The general principles are share by many.  The details though... I disagree with science cuts, I approve of Kyoto/reduction of greenhouse gases, I believe protecting the environment is important so long as we don't go batshit insane about it.  Most people describing themselves as social conservative would be against any kind of reduction of our pollutants, consider global warming to be a fraud, believe oil subsidies are good, etc, etc.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 08, 2012, 03:43:45 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 08, 2012, 03:26:48 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 08, 2012, 11:24:30 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 08, 2012, 11:18:27 AM
I feel like I'm alone in my corner.
Social liberal & fiscal conservative.

:rolleyes:
The general principles are share by many.  The details though... I disagree with science cuts, I approve of Kyoto/reduction of greenhouse gases, I believe protecting the environment is important so long as we don't go batshit insane about it.  Most people describing themselves as social conservative would be against any kind of reduction of our pollutants, consider global warming to be a fraud, believe oil subsidies are good, etc, etc.

But you didn't describe yourself as social conservative, so those positions don't really knock anyone new out of your corner. :P
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on November 08, 2012, 04:40:30 PM
I would consider myself to be "liberal" both in fiscal and social matters.

I've also spent the past several years ranting about government waste and profligacy  :hmm:

I wouldn't say that there is a contradiction there though. In the UK, when government expenditure falls below the 40% of GDP level, people tend to get upset about inadequate public services. Conversely, when the tax take rises above that figure people get preoccupied with the state taking too much. So it seems to me that we should try and spend that 40% in the most efficient way possible. In general that has been done, but I think the spending would have been more effective if we did not oscillate between profligacy and gratuitous parsimony.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: derspiess on November 08, 2012, 06:38:19 PM
So who other than me voted for the first option?  Dps?

Anyway, I'm personally full conservative in both areas but will sacrifice social for fiscal/economic when necessary.

And one thing I've noticed about the so-called fiscal conservatives of Languish is that they tend to find whatever excuse they can to vote against their supposed fiscal interests.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Sheilbh on November 08, 2012, 07:52:51 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 08, 2012, 04:40:30 PM
I wouldn't say that there is a contradiction there though.
And of course it varies where you are.  For example Viking's comment about free trade and protectionism just don't apply here.  I don't think any non-fascist party here is protectionist, the British political instinct is towards liberalisation of markets and more free trade.  But I can see that that is more of a liberal/conservative issue in the US and some of the continent.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Viking on November 08, 2012, 07:58:28 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 08, 2012, 07:52:51 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 08, 2012, 04:40:30 PM
I wouldn't say that there is a contradiction there though.
And of course it varies where you are.  For example Viking's comment about free trade and protectionism just don't apply here.  I don't think any non-fascist party here is protectionist, the British political instinct is towards liberalisation of markets and more free trade.  But I can see that that is more of a liberal/conservative issue in the US and some of the continent.

+1

The last time a non-liberal government sat in britain the Duke of Wellington was arguing about Corn Laws. Since then Britain has been for free-trade with anybody who free-trades back. The Party is called The Conservative Party but in truth it is yet another shade of liberal. Again, as I said, the opposite of Conservative is Radical, not Liberal. Even British Labour Party governments have ultimately been liberal. 
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Josquius on November 08, 2012, 08:48:37 PM
What is a "Fiscal conservative"? Conservatives these days are generally economically liberal so...err....eh?
I'm a leftist and that is all that is important, economics are merely a means to an end. I guess I favour a mixed economy?
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Razgovory on November 08, 2012, 09:20:45 PM
Quote from: Tyr on November 08, 2012, 08:48:37 PM
What is a "Fiscal conservative"? Conservatives these days are generally economically liberal so...err....eh?
I'm a leftist and that is all that is important, economics are merely a means to an end. I guess I favour a mixed economy?

It means you talk about a balanced budget when you are out of power.
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: Ideologue on November 08, 2012, 10:37:57 PM
Hard left.   I have no idea what fiscal conservative/liberal is supposed to mean in this context.  Is it "liberal" to believe in "liberalization of trade"?  I'm not for that, I'm for as much autarky amongst the developed world as feasible and forcing shit countries to adopt Western policies in general and my policies in particular if they do not wish to starve.  Is "conservative" meant to be "lower taxes"?  No, I believe in a 90% top marginal rate.  I guess I'm pretty socially liberal.  I voted "other."
Title: Re: Your political bent
Post by: garbon on November 08, 2012, 10:41:14 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 08, 2012, 09:20:45 PM
Quote from: Tyr on November 08, 2012, 08:48:37 PM
What is a "Fiscal conservative"? Conservatives these days are generally economically liberal so...err....eh?
I'm a leftist and that is all that is important, economics are merely a means to an end. I guess I favour a mixed economy?

It means you talk about a balanced budget when you are out of power.

I've never been in power. :(

That said, I did a mean job of balancing my project budgets.