http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/10/26/nanny-suspected-in-stabbing-deaths-of-2-children-remains-hospitalized/
QuoteA nanny is hospitalized in critical condition after police said she killed two children she was caring for and then tried to kill herself.
Marina Krim returned home to her luxury apartment building at 75th and Columbus Avenue to find two of her kids dead.
Police said Krim found her 2-year-old son Leo and 6-year-old daughter Lulu in the bathtub, stabbed multiple times. The nanny was on the floor with apparent self-inflicted wounds on her throat, police said.
"Her screams were heard by a neighbor, who alerted police, who arrived and found the children dead," NYPD Deputy Commissioner Paul Browne said.
Krim was hospitalized for trauma Thursday night. Her husband had just returned from a business trip and was reportedly told the devastating news at the airport.
"It's unbelievable, unbelievable. I can't imagine what the mother is feeling," neighbor Charles Zimmerman said.
Krim kept a loving blog about her children on livejournal.com called "Life With The Little Krim Kids." It was filled with thousands of posts and pictures.
She last posted at 2:30 p.m. Thursday, just three hours before she discovered the bodies.
She wrote:
Leo speaks in the most adorable way possible. Firstly, he speaks super clearly, so you can understand every word is is saying. And he does things like, "I want a fresh bagel" and "Dito (what he calls himself) wants cold milk" and most adorable of all, "No thank you"-he never uses "No" alone, it's always paired with "thank you".
Police said it's still unclear how long the nanny, Yoselyn Ortega, worked for the family.
So far, no charges have been filed.
I can't even imagine how traumatizing that would be. :(
How does someone hurt children? :(
Evil evil evil.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcbsnewyork.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F10%2Flulu-krim-leo-krim2.jpg%3Fw%3D300&hash=c1404af663cce15be6cf0ceb0513314a543f2857)
I've seen the headlines, but have deliberately avoided reading the articles. I just... yeah. I can't do it.
Quote from: merithyn on October 26, 2012, 09:07:39 AM
I've seen the headlines, but have deliberately avoided reading the articles. I just... yeah. I can't do it.
Yeah, I kind of wish I'd continued to avoid. :(
I didn't realize that they had a third child who was with the mother at the time. That child is going to be smothered with maternal protection now.
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 12:36:10 PM
I didn't realize that they had a third child who was with the mother at the time. That child is going to be smothered with maternal protection now.
Does mother have time? Maybe she will get a new nanny.
Some other article states she was a state at home mom until last year.
If Tamas wants to argue over believing in the existence of God, it's stories like this that are a much better starting point.
QuotePolice said it's still unclear how long the nanny, Yoselyn Ortega, worked for the family.
I bet she doesn't even have proper voter identification, either.
Quote from: Phillip V on October 26, 2012, 12:43:30 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 12:36:10 PM
I didn't realize that they had a third child who was with the mother at the time. That child is going to be smothered with maternal protection now.
Does mother have time? Maybe she will get a new nanny.
Dude, even Languish has a line we don't cross with black humor.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 26, 2012, 01:03:32 PM
If Tamas wants to argue over believing in the existence of God, it's stories like this that are a much better starting point.
Yeah. :(
Quote from: DGuller on October 26, 2012, 01:08:05 PM
Quote from: Phillip V on October 26, 2012, 12:43:30 PM
Does mother have time? Maybe she will get a new nanny.
Dude, even Languish has a line we don't cross with black humor.
It's a douchebaggy yet valid question. Downsized by 66%, she may not need one anymore.
Quote from: Phillip V on October 26, 2012, 12:43:30 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 26, 2012, 12:36:10 PM
I didn't realize that they had a third child who was with the mother at the time. That child is going to be smothered with maternal protection now.
Does mother have time? Maybe she will get a new nanny.
You're such a prick.
Yes, let's blame the mother for not being home 24/7 while the father is away on business. Couldn't possibly be that with three children - and a bit of extra money - they were able to hire in help.
By the way, Mom was with her 3-year-old at swim class. Maybe, just maybe, Mom hired a nanny to pick up the slack because Pops travels a lot for work. Or because it's really fucking hard to juggle three very small children. Or because she wanted to work. Not that any of that matters because, quite frankly, it's none of your fucking business. That family has been destroyed. How about we focus on that, eh? Instead of your blatant assumptions and ignorance.
How does getting a new future nanny = blaming mother for murder
Quote from: Phillip V on October 26, 2012, 01:41:29 PM
How does getting a new future nanny = blaming mother for murder
Oh bullshit. Your comment was made as a jab at Mom for not being home with her kids, and instead hiring a nanny. Don't try to play it off now that you've been called on it.
Quote from: merithyn on October 26, 2012, 01:46:31 PM
Quote from: Phillip V on October 26, 2012, 01:41:29 PM
How does getting a new future nanny = blaming mother for murder
Oh bullshit. Your comment was made as a jab at Mom for not being home with her kids, and instead hiring a nanny. Don't try to play it off now that you've been called on it.
Garbon wrote "That child is going to be smothered with maternal protection now." I replied she may get a
new nanny. This is future, not past.
Quote from: Phillip V on October 26, 2012, 01:48:42 PM
I replied to Garbon's "That child is going to be smothered with maternal protection now." She may get a new nanny. This is future, not past.
Quote from: Phillip V on October 26, 2012, 12:43:30 PM
Does mother have time? Maybe she will get a new nanny.
And the point of the bolded?
You know, a grown up would own up that it was a joke in poor taste, apologize, and move on.
I own that I mean what I asked. You can answer or continue to take offense. Garbon mentioned that she is no longer a stay-at-home mom since last year, perhaps working.
Quote from: Phillip V on October 26, 2012, 02:00:26 PM
I own that I mean what I asked. You can answer or continue to take offense. Garbon mentioned that she is no longer a stay-at-home mom since last year, perhaps working.
Oh, so not offensive, just stupid?
Do honestly believe that Mom could even consider such a thing right now? That she can even dream of such a thing?
I knew I should have stayed out of this thread. Goddamn it. <_<
Meri, I don't think Philip had the thought you ascribe to him. In fact, I don't think he's even capable of forming such complex thoughts. He just made an extremely tasteless joke, and is trying to back away from it without owning up to it.
Ahh, Meri on the warpath. The Boudicca of Languish flamers, wielding a keyboard like a scythed chariot of vengence. :D
I can't see how a joke would even be funny in this case.
And if I were trying to impart wisdom, I would make it clear and forceful so as to benefit the world.
What an unbelievably sad story. :(
You know, I can understand some cases of child abuse - when you have a couple of screaming kids for several hours it can cause you to question your sanity. But to repeatedly stab them? What. The. Fuck.
Some details emerge:
- mother was a homemaker and did not work outside the home
- nanny had financial and psychological problems; worked other jobs on the side
- nanny was hired through a referral by another family; may not have undergone background check/vetting
- family took some interest in the nanny, even visiting her native Dominican Republic
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/27/nyregion/motive-for-stabbings-a-mystery-as-a-portrait-of-a-troubled-nanny-emerges.html
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 26, 2012, 01:03:32 PM
If Tamas wants to argue over believing in the existence of God, it's stories like this that are a much better starting point.
Nah, it just shows that God is a prick.
The nanny is very lucky that when the mother discovered all of this, she didn't take the knife out of her hands and finish her the fuck off. If I was the parent in this situation, I think there's a good chance that's what I would have done. :mellow:
Quote from: Caliga on October 27, 2012, 05:28:21 AM
The nanny is very lucky that when the mother discovered all of this, she didn't take the knife out of her hands and finish her the fuck off.
Disagree, she'd have been better off.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 27, 2012, 05:35:34 AM
Quote from: Caliga on October 27, 2012, 05:28:21 AM
The nanny is very lucky that when the mother discovered all of this, she didn't take the knife out of her hands and finish her the fuck off.
Disagree, she'd have been better off.
Yeah death would be too good for her.
She really gonna suffer worse? She'll be tossed in the crazy-person house and pretty much forgotten by everyone but that family.
I think being trapped in a mental hospital for decades would be worse.
I have to say these yuppie parents in this story are exactly the kind of parents I hate. The mother was smart and successful, she was a physician before she became a stay at home mom. Once she had kids redefined her life and started liveblogging all the little things her kid did and etc. Having a kid was the best thing I ever did, but it's a very normal, human thing. I see it in that context, it's important to me. But it's not worthy of blogging to the world. I also don't think it sets a good example for a woman who is a trained physician to leave the work force and act as though parenting is a "job." So basically yeah, these are precisely the kind of douchebag yuppie parents I hate.
But we are talking about two of their kids being stabbed to death, so I do think there is a line where you say, "yeah, these are the annoying fuck types everyone hates, but their kids were just murdered and probably not a good time to make a joke ragging on the parents for their parenting style." I disagree with their "lifestyle" without thinking we need to make jokes about it after their kids have just been murdered.
The nanny stabbed herself too (it's a shame when these suicides go bad and don't get finished up properly), so the mom actually said in her 911 call something like "something has happened to my kids and their nanny", so initially I think the mom in her extreme shock and grief was thinking "someone came in and killed everyone." Not being in a sound state of mind at that moment she probably wasn't able to discern the nanny's wounds were self-inflicted...probably wasn't able to discern much of anything.
I don't think this is a case of the nanny just going ape shit on annoying little brats either, it seems like she basically had a psychotic break which unfortunately just happens sometimes. That's part of the world we live in with 7 billion people any number of which have brains that just aren't "right."
There was a story awhile ago, I think somewhere in the northeast, where a father went out to score some crack (instantly you should know this isn't a stellar family), and when he came back home his mentally ill wife had murdered their child. The father basically goes insane and beats the wife to death with a lead pipe or something.
Apparently the father of the house is the VP for CNBC Digital.
Link to some pics of the scene, housekeeper being rushed to the ambulance, mother in the back as well.
https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/mass-stabbing-west-side-article-1.1192419
Here we go:
QuoteBRENTWOOD, N.H. (AP) — A New Hampshire man was sentenced to 15 to 30 years in prison Friday for beating his wife to death with a flashlight after he came home to find she had strangled their 4-year-old son with a ribbon and tried to kill their 7-year-old daughter.
Christopher Smeltzer, 39, pleaded guilty to killing Mara Pappalardo, who was hospitalized several times for mental illness. Prosecutors say she was paranoid, obsessed with death and convinced her husband and mother-in-law were plotting to take her children away.
"When I walked into the room, as soon as I saw my son, I knew something was very wrong," Smeltzer told the court before he was sentenced, his voice breaking at times. "I knew he was dead. And I lost all control. Enraged, I struck my wife. I did something that was not going to bring my son back."
Smeltzer was charged with second-degree murder in the November 2010 killing at their Auburn home. Prosecutors later downgraded that to manslaughter, saying he was provoked by the sight of the still bodies of their son, Mason, and daughter, Mercey.
He arrived home Nov. 7 to find Mason with a ribbon around his neck and Mercey with a scarf around hers. He thought both were dead. Pappalardo tied a blue rope around her own neck in an attempt to kill herself, although prosecutors said she died from both strangulation and Smeltzer hitting her in the head with the flashlight.
Smeltzer did not call 911. Instead, he snipped the ribbon off Mason's neck and removed the scarf from Mercey's. Then he took all the pills he could find — painkillers, sleeping aids and methadone — and lay down on the couch to die.
He was awakened the next morning by Mercey, who asked if her mother and brother were breathing and requested a cup of tea. He made her one, then called his father and 911.
Smeltzer, who was wearing handcuffs Friday, wept while talking about how much he misses his son. "I miss my wife as well," he said. "I miss Mara's smile and heart and the way she played with our children."
He apologized to her family. "I brought more pain and sorrow," he said, adding he wishes every day he had a rewind button.
Judge Tina Nadeau said if Smeltzer earns a college degree and completes anger management behind bars, his minimum sentence would be reduced to 10 years.
Before Smeltzer spoke, a court-appointed guardian representing Mercey played a recording of the child reading a letter to the judge in which she said her father killed her mother and Mason. "If he loves me, why would he try to kill me?" she said. "If my daddy gets out, how will I keep safe? Please keep him in jail for the rest of his life."
After that, prosecutor Jane Young got up and said the recording is contrary to statements Mercey has made in the past, in counseling and interviews. She repeatedly had said her father had taken the scarf off of her neck. She has said she remembers her mother carrying her into the bedroom, but doesn't remember what happened next, Young said.
Prosecutors said there is no evidence that Smeltzer killed Mason.
And that's why I hate the poor, white trash and trash of other colors in this country. You read a story like that and you don't even need to know anything else, you know these people are from the underclass. The upper middle class and the upper class are just better people, and that's part of the reason we have more money.
Yeah, money really made those Menendez brothers good apples.
Quote from: Razgovory on October 27, 2012, 10:50:24 AM
Yeah, money really made those Menendez brothers good apples.
It's a good example of what I'm talking about.
It's pretty well known at this time that money doesn't help people make better decisions than they would otherwise make. This is why a lot of cash payout systems designed to help the poor haven't actually helped as much as people would think. Things like TANF are good because it keeps families from having to eat out of garbage cans, and is a worthy use of our tax dollars. But up until the late 80s liberals argued that welfare helped raise people out of poverty. But unfortunately it does not appear to actually work that way. Welfare alleviates some of the worst aspects of poverty, but can't seem to really help a large number of people to permanently enter the middle class. What does? Who knows. Welfare-to-work despite being a lot more popular (and was based on both conservatives
and liberals agreeing that previous welfare efforts didn't have great long term results), doesn't seem to work at that goal either.
Some people are simply so disadvantaged from poor upbringing, it is highly unlikely they can ever lift themselves out of poverty. A few really hard working people in those scenarios will. The rest will not. Some people are simply too intellectually or personality challenged to ever be successful, regardless of upbringing.
A severe autistic person will not earn much of a living for themselves. Born into a billionaire family they may never want, but they are also highly unlikely to
earn much money in their lifetime. In fact their money will have to be managed for them, and if it wasn't it would evaporate as they are basically incompetent.
The Menendez brothers had rich parents, but that doesn't mean they themselves would have been rich if they hadn't been sent to jail. They spent $1m in the first six months after their parents died, they're a perfect example of bad eggs who make bad decisions and get impoverished. See: Vince Young, Britney Spears, Nicholas Cage, Mike Tyson. For various reasons none of these people are actually able to manage money or really their own lives. Some of them are lucky, and have talents that allow them to go back to the well to earn more money even after doing really stupid things (Spears and Cage), but some like Vince Young and Tyson whose gifts are primarily physical have no ability to go back to that well after a certain point. It shows that certain people just aren't fit to be part of the upper class. The only way people like that can remain permanently part of the upper class is if they hand over their financial life to a genuine member of that upper class to manage their money for them. These will be wealthy financial managers who went to Ivy League schools and came from good families, people you know aren't out snorting coke while their mentally ill wife strangles their kids.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on October 27, 2012, 11:35:24 AM
It's pretty well known at this time that money doesn't help people make better decisions than they would otherwise make. This is why a lot of cash payout systems designed to help the poor haven't actually helped as much as people would think. Things like TANF are good because it keeps families from having to eat out of garbage cans, and is a worthy use of our tax dollars. But up until the late 80s liberals argued that welfare helped raise people out of poverty. But unfortunately it does not appear to actually work that way. Welfare alleviates some of the worst aspects of poverty, but can't seem to really help a large number of people to permanently enter the middle class.
I think Reagan would disagree with you. Back in the day he was trumpeting an example of a black woman who managed to break out of poverty, and become quite well-off, with the help of welfare.
Clearly the solution is to take everyone's money away.
Quote from: DGuller on October 27, 2012, 11:51:32 AM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on October 27, 2012, 11:35:24 AM
It's pretty well known at this time that money doesn't help people make better decisions than they would otherwise make. This is why a lot of cash payout systems designed to help the poor haven't actually helped as much as people would think. Things like TANF are good because it keeps families from having to eat out of garbage cans, and is a worthy use of our tax dollars. But up until the late 80s liberals argued that welfare helped raise people out of poverty. But unfortunately it does not appear to actually work that way. Welfare alleviates some of the worst aspects of poverty, but can't seem to really help a large number of people to permanently enter the middle class.
I think Reagan would disagree with you. Back in the day he was trumpeting an example of a black woman who managed to break out of poverty, and become quite well-off, with the help of welfare.
Obviously. I said that neither regular old style welfare or welfare-to-work actually seem to do a very good job to permanently improve very many people's economic prospects. That basically puts me at odds with every President since FDR, since all have supported some level of welfare as a means to "raise people out of poverty." Reagan supported welfare-to-work type schemes for most of his political life, and I'm sure that's what he was touting as his goals for welfare in reference to black people.
But the reality is welfare-to-work doesn't really work. I'm not entirely sure anything can, and suspect maybe Friedman was right in just suggesting we have a bigger negative tax (basically increased EITC) to alleviate the conditions of the poor and abandon the fallacy that we can throw money at them and make them more successful people.
If your goal is to alleviate misery, welfare does that. If you goal is to take poor people and give them the ability to work their way into middle or upple middle class type jobs and income, welfare appears to fail misery. Pre-reform, post-reform, any way you cut it.
The nanny charged with killing two children told the police their parents "were always telling her what to do."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/06/nyregion/upper-west-side-nanny-resented-her-employers-police-say.html
Does this mean I can kill my CEO? :hmm:
The poors are revolting.
And The Rock Cried Out.
Quote from: Caliga on November 05, 2012, 08:30:52 PM
Does this mean I can kill my CEO? :hmm:
Yeah, but CEOs get to kill people who work for government regulatory agencies.
Quote from: Caliga on November 05, 2012, 08:30:52 PM
Does this mean I can kill my CEO? :hmm:
Only when he's in the US.
I don't know, to me this seems like a pretty flimsy defense of the murder of two children. :hmm:
Quote from: DGuller on November 06, 2012, 08:14:23 AM
I don't know, to me this seems like a pretty flimsy defense of the murder of two children. :hmm:
Bet next she'll reveal she felt depressed and she had eaten a lot of Twinkies beforehand.
Twinkies make me SO ANGRY :ultra:
They're quite delicious when deep-fried. :cool:
I had my first deep fried twinkie at a tailgate this year. I can honestly say, never have I had anything so surprisingly delicious, and at the same time capable of making me feel immediately fat and disgusting.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on November 06, 2012, 04:53:05 PM
I had my first deep fried twinkie at a tailgate this year. I can honestly say, never have I had anything so surprisingly delicious, and at the same time capable of making me feel immediately fat and disgusting.
Did it give you the urge to go to the town hall to "pass" your feelings of self-loathing and disgust on your mayor and his most flamboyant gay councillor, too?
Twinkies are known to put people into murderous rage, ya know.
Dan White is a hero.