Languish.org

General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Martinus on October 26, 2012, 07:54:37 AM

Title: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: Martinus on October 26, 2012, 07:54:37 AM
Anyone else who works for a corporation, feel free to chip in: how do you deal with work stress and the pressure (from clients/partners/bosses etc.) to essentially be contactable/available 24/7?

Do you adopt weird working hours? Take frequent vacation? Be assertive when it comes to clients not interferring with your personal time/space?

This is related to my therapist thread - I am trying to figure out if I have to change job or is there a way to fix things while staying in the firm.
Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: Gups on October 26, 2012, 07:58:10 AM
I make time for life by not posting on Languish 13,336 times
Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 26, 2012, 08:00:45 AM
Quote from: Gups on October 26, 2012, 07:58:10 AM
I make time for life by not posting on Languish 13,336 times

:D
Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: Martinus on October 26, 2012, 08:01:31 AM
Quote from: Gups on October 26, 2012, 07:58:10 AM
I make time for life by not posting on Languish 13,336 times

Ok, are you snarky because I did not include you?

I was asking how do you deal with the fluid nature of our work (it is not always possible to do something now so you are free later on) and odd working hours. Do you just refuse to play the game and set your own rules or what?
Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: Faeelin on October 26, 2012, 08:09:46 AM
It comes with the territory, no?
Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: Malthus on October 26, 2012, 08:36:19 AM
Believe it or not, I simply refuse to be contactable except by prior arrangement.

If I'm in the office, you can reach me. If I'm not, you can't. Unless I know something big is going down.

I simply refuse to use cellphones and blackberries.
Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: Gups on October 26, 2012, 08:38:07 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 26, 2012, 08:01:31 AM
Ok, are you snarky because I did not include you?

Nope.

QuoteI was asking how do you deal with the fluid nature of our work (it is not always possible to do something now so you are free later on) and odd working hours. Do you just refuse to play the game and set your own rules or what?

My clients aren't like that and my work isn't that fluid - it's mainly litigation, with set deadlines for pleadings, expert reports etc.


Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 26, 2012, 08:50:48 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 26, 2012, 07:54:37 AM
Do you adopt weird working hours? Take frequent vacation? Be assertive when it comes to clients not interferring with your personal time/space?

In order:
1) Yes
2) Sort of.  More frequent but less time off at a time.
3) No - this is a client service business.  If that is a big issue you may be in the wrong business.  Colleagues can help carry the load here.

Marti - I assume you are often dealing with time zone differences which may make Gups/Malthus' experience not totally applicable.
Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: Martinus on October 26, 2012, 08:54:49 AM
Great, everyone gave me a different answer. Or Malthus is in the wrong business. :P
Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: The Brain on October 26, 2012, 08:56:30 AM
Customer focus >>> foot focus. Deal.
Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 26, 2012, 08:58:13 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 26, 2012, 08:54:49 AM
Or Malthus is in the wrong business. :P

Canada /= NY
And every practice is different.  I have colleagues with very predictable, stable practices.  Mine doesn't work that way.  I work with clients and colleagues on the west coast so have to be available late; I also work for NYC finance-RE types that have certain expectations as to responsiveness.
Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: Malthus on October 26, 2012, 09:00:19 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 26, 2012, 08:54:49 AM
Great, everyone gave me a different answer. Or Malthus is in the wrong business. :P

Maybe.   :D

Problem is, it depends on the nature of the work. Which varies a lot.

I compromise by being willing to work odd hours, weekends, etc. when necessary. But my work is more "set" than most - I do mainly regulatory opinions. So I'm not "on call" as much, except of course when it comes to emergencies like product recalls.
Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: Martinus on October 26, 2012, 09:03:23 AM
So how do you manage this without getting burned out, Minsky (since I assume you are older than me)? The best therapist partner money can buy?
Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 26, 2012, 09:13:53 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 26, 2012, 09:03:23 AM
So how do you manage this without getting burned out, Minsky (since I assume you are older than me)? The best therapist partner money can buy?

Really like/be interested in the work you are doing.
Share the burden with colleagues.
Find some a few things outside work that are important to you and make sure you make the time to do them.
Natural insommnia.
Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: Barrister on October 26, 2012, 09:25:58 AM
I dealt with big law firm stress by no longer working for a big law firm. :)

It's not 100%, but most days I'm out the door by 4:30.   :cool:
Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: Viking on October 26, 2012, 09:29:43 AM
Learn how to say no and learn when you need to say no.

Maintaining your own mental health and sanity is part of your job. You have working hours insist that your boss and client respect that, do not allow the exceptions to get out of hand. Turn your work cell phone off when you are not required to be available.

Learn these phrases

"Email me with the details of the situation and I will deal with it first thing in the morning."

and

"I am not in a position to help you right now I can refer you to a colleague who can."


Remember that there is almost nothing urgent that you get called up about that will not require at some point waiting til the morning. Then again, this might just be the oilpatch respect for HSE and OSHA that doesn't exist in other industries. In my industry arguing that one cannot perform a task due to not having slept 8 hrs in the last 24 hrs is sufficient for anything short of escaping a sinking ship or burning platform.
Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: The Brain on October 26, 2012, 09:30:15 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 26, 2012, 09:25:58 AM
I dealt with big law firm stress by no longer working for a big law firm. :)

It's not 100%, but most days I'm out the door by 4:30.   :cool:

Ugh. Not a morning person myself.
Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: ulmont on October 26, 2012, 09:47:37 AM
My experience is similar to Minsky's.
Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: dps on October 26, 2012, 06:15:18 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 26, 2012, 08:36:19 AM
I simply refuse to use cellphones and blackberries.

Even with a cell, there's always the option of saying, "Oops, I must have been in a place where I couldn't get signal".  Not saying that I've ever done that, I'm just saying that someone might do that.

Heck, occasionally, it might be true.

Back when I lived with my mom from 2002-2006 and didn't have a cell, I just let her answer the phone.  If she didn't think it was really important, she'd just tell them, "Eh, it's his day off, I'm not bothering him.  It can wait till he comes in tomorrow".  She used to do the same thing when my stepfather was alive and would get business calls at home.
Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: stjaba on October 26, 2012, 08:45:37 PM
Although I've only been working for a few weeks, I've noticed a difference in workload between litigators and corporate attorneys. It seems that litigation is much more stable, unless there's some big event going on like a trial. So far, I haven't really needed to put in crazy hours, and I only go in on the weekend to get face time with my boss.
Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: ulmont on October 26, 2012, 08:56:21 PM
Quote from: stjaba on October 26, 2012, 08:45:37 PM
Although I've only been working for a few weeks, I've noticed a difference in workload between litigators and corporate attorneys. It seems that litigation is much more stable, unless there's some big event going on like a trial. So far, I haven't really needed to put in crazy hours, and I only go in on the weekend to get face time with my boss.

Pretty much.  I do both, whee, and the litigation is a bit more manageable.  On the corporate side, well, I have a 3:30 conference call tomorrow.
Title: Re: Question to big firm lawyers (CC, Joan, Malthus)
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 28, 2012, 10:07:51 PM
Hmm looks like tomorrow will be a short day at the office at least.  ;)