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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: mongers on October 17, 2012, 02:03:55 PM

Title: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: mongers on October 17, 2012, 02:03:55 PM

Quote
Police use Taser on blind man after stick mistaken for sword

A police force has apologised after an officer used a Taser on a blind man whose white stick was mistaken for a sword.

Colin Farmer, 61, was stunned by police following reports of a man walking through Chorley with a samurai sword.

Ch Supt Stuart Williams, of Lancashire Police, said the force had "deep regrets" and had "clearly put this man through a traumatic experience".

Mr Farmer was taken to hospital for treatment and later discharged.

"It felt like I was grabbing an electricity pylon," he said.

Mr Farmer, who has suffered two strokes, said he thought he was being attacked by thugs.

He was walking to a pub to meet friends on Friday when the officer fired the Taser. It forced him to drop his stick and he fell to the ground, he said.

He said the experience had left him "shaking like a leaf" and scared to go outside.

The case has been referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

A Lancashire Police spokesman said the incident was being investigated and the officer's Taser had been withdrawn.
'Extremely sorry'

Mr Williams said police had "received a number of reports that a man was walking through Chorley armed with a samurai sword".

"A description of the offender was circulated to officers and patrols were sent to look for the man," he said.

"One of the officers who arrived in Chorley believed he had located the offender.

"Despite asking the man to stop, he failed to do so and the officer discharged his Taser."

Mr Williams said it "became apparent that this man was not the person we were looking for and officers attended to him straight away", taking him to Chorley Hospital.

He added that the force "deeply regrets what has happened".

"We have clearly put this man through a traumatic experience and we are extremely sorry for that," he said.

"We have launched an urgent investigation to understand what lessons can be learned."

A man carrying a samurai sword was later arrested on suspicion of being drunk and disorderly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-19979184 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-19979184)

Good grief there are some astonishingly thick coppers about nowadays, who do you mistake a thin white stick for a metal samurai sword.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Neil on October 17, 2012, 02:20:27 PM
You got to be on the alert for knife crime, you know?
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Barrister on October 17, 2012, 02:24:21 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 17, 2012, 02:03:55 PM
Good grief there are some astonishingly thick coppers about nowadays, who do you mistake a thin white stick for a metal samurai sword.

Because you err on the side of caution, in particular when people do not comply with verbal commands from police.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Malthus on October 17, 2012, 02:44:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2012, 02:24:21 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 17, 2012, 02:03:55 PM
Good grief there are some astonishingly thick coppers about nowadays, who do you mistake a thin white stick for a metal samurai sword.

Because you err on the side of caution, in particular when people do not comply with verbal commands from police.

A "taze 'em all, let the Independent Police Complaints Commission sort 'em out" policy?  :D
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 17, 2012, 02:45:32 PM
Stick's a stick, man.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: The Brain on October 17, 2012, 02:46:51 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2012, 02:24:21 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 17, 2012, 02:03:55 PM
Good grief there are some astonishingly thick coppers about nowadays, who do you mistake a thin white stick for a metal samurai sword.

Because you err on the side of caution, in particular when people do not comply with verbal commands from police.

How would a blind man be aware of those commands?
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: merithyn on October 17, 2012, 02:54:10 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2012, 02:24:21 PM

Because you err on the side of caution, in particular when people do not comply with verbal commands from police.

He was blind and hadn't done anything wrong. Why would he assume that an officer was yelling at him to "drop the sword"?
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: garbon on October 17, 2012, 02:55:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2012, 02:24:21 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 17, 2012, 02:03:55 PM
Good grief there are some astonishingly thick coppers about nowadays, who do you mistake a thin white stick for a metal samurai sword.

Because you err on the side of caution, in particular when people do not comply with verbal commands from police.

Which is rather bullshit as the only real reason to immediately obey cops is that if you don't they'll likely kill you.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 17, 2012, 02:56:33 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2012, 02:55:39 PM
the only real reason to immediately obey cops is that if you don't they'll likely kill you.

Shame more people aren't always that reasonable.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on October 17, 2012, 02:58:40 PM
The level of risk that a police officer faces in the UK, especially in a place like Chorley, simply does not permit this sort of stupid shoot first attitude.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 17, 2012, 03:00:24 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 17, 2012, 02:58:40 PM
The level of risk that a police officer faces in the UK, especially in a place like Chorley, simply does not permit this sort of stupid shoot first attitude.

YOU DONT KNOW THAT

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi169.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu230%2Fppcccaps%2Fhotfuzz7.jpg&hash=431f3d1a3efa1704447b6652b5e48b2a2bd2e6a4)
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: mongers on October 17, 2012, 03:01:43 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 17, 2012, 02:58:40 PM
The level of risk that a police officer faces in the UK, especially in a place like Chorley, simply does not permit this sort of stupid shoot first attitude.

Yes, but I think it's less a policy and more a very stupid copper caught up in the hysteria of OMG there's a man loose with a samurai sword.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: mongers on October 17, 2012, 03:03:34 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2012, 02:24:21 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 17, 2012, 02:03:55 PM
Good grief there are some astonishingly thick coppers about nowadays, who do you mistake a thin white stick for a metal samurai sword.

Because you err on the side of caution, in particular when people do not comply with verbal commands from police.

Why am I not surprised by your response, oh willing drone.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: merithyn on October 17, 2012, 03:12:04 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 17, 2012, 03:03:34 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2012, 02:24:21 PM
Quote from: mongers on October 17, 2012, 02:03:55 PM
Good grief there are some astonishingly thick coppers about nowadays, who do you mistake a thin white stick for a metal samurai sword.

Because you err on the side of caution, in particular when people do not comply with verbal commands from police.

Why am I not surprised by your response, oh willing drone.

:lol:

Didn't expect that from you.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Barrister on October 17, 2012, 03:21:12 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 17, 2012, 02:58:40 PM
The level of risk that a police officer faces in the UK, especially in a place like Chorley, simply does not permit this sort of stupid shoot first attitude.

You'd be surprised the level of risk a police office faces even in fairly "safe" communities.

It only takes one deranged person with a samurai sword, after all...

I remember talking with a cop about a samurai sword case.  He was called out to a report of a guy walking down the street waving a samurai sword on Christmas Day.  The cop told me he had a sinking feeling that he was going to have to shoot this guy on Christmas Day if he wouldn't drop the sword.

Thankfully he did, and nobody was shot. :)

But sadly, a number of people have been shot and killed by police for carrying, and refusing to drop, items that ultimately turned out to be harmless. :(
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on October 17, 2012, 03:21:50 PM
The Lancashire Evening Post has a photo of the fellow who was tasered (and his stick) :

http://www.lep.co.uk/news/local/police-confuse-blind-stick-for-samurai-sword-1-5034230

A terrifying sight  :P

It's daylight at 5.45 pm round here at the moment btw.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: garbon on October 17, 2012, 03:27:33 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2012, 03:21:12 PM
But sadly, a number of people have been shot and killed by police for carrying, and refusing to drop, items that ultimately turned out to be harmless. :(

And it's pretty clear that the blame should fall on the individual with the gun.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Barrister on October 17, 2012, 03:51:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2012, 03:27:33 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2012, 03:21:12 PM
But sadly, a number of people have been shot and killed by police for carrying, and refusing to drop, items that ultimately turned out to be harmless. :(

And it's pretty clear that the blame should fall on the individual with the gun.

Nope. :)

If an assailant is coming towards you, hostile intent, and appears to be carrying a gun or knife an officer should deploy their sidearm after the individual fails to comply with verbal demands. 
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Tonitrus on October 17, 2012, 03:54:30 PM
A friend of mine has an umbrella that, until unsheathed, looks like a samurai sword.  I tell her she's gotta be careful carrying that around these days.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Malthus on October 17, 2012, 03:57:13 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2012, 03:21:12 PM
I remember talking with a cop about a samurai sword case.  He was called out to a report of a guy walking down the street waving a samurai sword on Christmas Day.  The cop told me he had a sinking feeling that he was going to have to shoot this guy on Christmas Day if he wouldn't drop the sword.


Yeah, but I bet that cop would have felt even worse if he shot the guy on Christmas and it turned out he was carrying a candy cane and not a samurai sword.  :lol:

The police knew he was suspicious because he was in disguise - he was dressed in a fake beard. They knew he was deranged because he kept laughing "ho ho ho" ...
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Malthus on October 17, 2012, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on October 17, 2012, 03:54:30 PM
A friend of mine has an umbrella that, until unsheathed, looks like a samurai sword.  I tell her she's gotta be careful carrying that around these days.

Apparently, even a normal umbrella isn't safe.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Barrister on October 17, 2012, 04:01:07 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 17, 2012, 03:57:13 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2012, 03:21:12 PM
I remember talking with a cop about a samurai sword case.  He was called out to a report of a guy walking down the street waving a samurai sword on Christmas Day.  The cop told me he had a sinking feeling that he was going to have to shoot this guy on Christmas Day if he wouldn't drop the sword.


Yeah, but I bet that cop would have felt even worse if he shot the guy on Christmas and it turned out he was carrying a candy cane and not a samurai sword.  :lol:

Well of course!

I mean I don't want to take away from the pain this man felt as a result of a mistake - and it clearly was a mistake.  That being said, mistakes happen, and if the cop is to be believed, and this were to happen in Canada, the cop acted reasonably and wouldn't be charged.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: garbon on October 17, 2012, 04:04:34 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2012, 03:51:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2012, 03:27:33 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2012, 03:21:12 PM
But sadly, a number of people have been shot and killed by police for carrying, and refusing to drop, items that ultimately turned out to be harmless. :(

And it's pretty clear that the blame should fall on the individual with the gun.

Nope. :)

If an assailant is coming towards you, hostile intent, and appears to be carrying a gun or knife an officer should deploy their sidearm after the individual fails to comply with verbal demands. 

And it's no surprise that very few people like the police.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Malthus on October 17, 2012, 04:07:18 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2012, 04:01:07 PM
Quote from: Malthus on October 17, 2012, 03:57:13 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2012, 03:21:12 PM
I remember talking with a cop about a samurai sword case.  He was called out to a report of a guy walking down the street waving a samurai sword on Christmas Day.  The cop told me he had a sinking feeling that he was going to have to shoot this guy on Christmas Day if he wouldn't drop the sword.


Yeah, but I bet that cop would have felt even worse if he shot the guy on Christmas and it turned out he was carrying a candy cane and not a samurai sword.  :lol:

Well of course!

I mean I don't want to take away from the pain this man felt as a result of a mistake - and it clearly was a mistake.  That being said, mistakes happen, and if the cop is to be believed, and this were to happen in Canada, the cop acted reasonably and wouldn't be charged.

I don't think he should be charged with a criminal offence. I do think that mistaking a blind man's cane for a samurai sword in broad daylight ain't reasonable. Cop hit the aggression button too soon, seemingly in a panic, which should bring public pressure to bear on the cops to improve performance (and no doubt earn this cop a bit of a verbal butt-kicking by his superiors) ... which no doubt is what is happening.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Razgovory on October 17, 2012, 04:16:05 PM
Probably thought it was Lettow, can't be to careful these days.  All sorts of weirdos out there pretending to be blind.


Seriously though, I'm not entirely certain how I would react if unseen assailants started screaming nonsensical demands at me.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Ed Anger on October 17, 2012, 04:58:29 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 17, 2012, 03:00:24 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 17, 2012, 02:58:40 PM
The level of risk that a police officer faces in the UK, especially in a place like Chorley, simply does not permit this sort of stupid shoot first attitude.

YOU DONT KNOW THAT

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi169.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu230%2Fppcccaps%2Fhotfuzz7.jpg&hash=431f3d1a3efa1704447b6652b5e48b2a2bd2e6a4)

Came for the Hot Fuzz reference, am satisfied.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Razgovory on October 17, 2012, 05:48:20 PM
Well since he shot the guy in the back, it's somewhat hard to argue that the police officer could have been threatened.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: DontSayBanana on October 17, 2012, 08:03:43 PM
Err on the side of caution?  Unless it was pitch black, there's no way a cop with basic weapon identification ability should mistake this:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.walking-canes.net%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2Fdetail%2F103521.jpg&hash=abd112cd250f2225fb55ab8e97104682c66bb2c2)

for this:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sangmoosa.com%2Fimages%2Fproduct%2F0893014599_445474DSS.jpg&hash=4a79b44944fdde61658405bd14736b315e17136c)
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Razgovory on October 17, 2012, 08:17:51 PM
It's hard to tell when he's not facing you.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 17, 2012, 08:22:14 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on October 17, 2012, 08:03:43 PM
Err on the side of caution?  Unless it was pitch black, there's no way a cop with basic weapon identification ability should mistake this:

Are cops trained at the academy to tell a samurai sword from a Claymore, a sabre or an epee?
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: DontSayBanana on October 17, 2012, 08:47:35 PM
The only sword that could be mistaken for is maybe an epee or a fencing saber.  Any narrow sword like that is going to have some kind of basket or handguard, so yes, I'd still expect them to be able to tell the difference.  Again, unless it's low visibility conditions, which could be likely since the real sword-carrier sounds like a drunk and disorderly.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 17, 2012, 09:04:17 PM
A fucking stick's a stick, people.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Razgovory on October 18, 2012, 04:38:53 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 17, 2012, 09:04:17 PM
A fucking stick's a stick, people.

Do police in Baltimore just zap blind people as a matter of course because they are waving around sticks?
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Tamas on October 18, 2012, 04:44:00 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 17, 2012, 03:27:33 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 17, 2012, 03:21:12 PM
But sadly, a number of people have been shot and killed by police for carrying, and refusing to drop, items that ultimately turned out to be harmless. :(

And it's pretty clear that the blame should fall on the individual with the gun.

don't do that brother talk here, Mr. Republican Voter
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Martinus on October 18, 2012, 06:51:11 AM
Barrister as always in cases like this proves to be a square cretin.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Martinus on October 18, 2012, 06:53:03 AM
Anyway, in times like this, I kinda wonder how did the police manage to get by in the old days when tasers werent available? Because I'm pretty sure bobbies did not just go around shooting random people down - and I'm also pretty sure swords have been the technological advance known in Britain for quite a while.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Ed Anger on October 18, 2012, 07:02:44 AM
They can always go back to caving in skulls with nightsticks.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2012, 07:03:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 18, 2012, 04:38:53 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 17, 2012, 09:04:17 PM
A fucking stick's a stick, people.

Do police in Baltimore just zap blind people as a matter of course because they are waving around sticks?

Blind's got nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on October 18, 2012, 07:05:16 AM
The guy who was actually waving the sword around was arrested later, without being tasered, on suspicion of being drunk and disorderly.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 18, 2012, 07:06:28 AM
Yay, you're better than us, etc.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Ed Anger on October 18, 2012, 07:07:28 AM
Drunk and disorderly in the UK. There's a shocker.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Malthus on October 18, 2012, 07:55:41 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 17, 2012, 04:16:05 PM
Probably thought it was Lettow, can't be to careful these days.  All sorts of weirdos out there pretending to be blind.


Well, yeah, the suspicion of Lettowism would rate a tasering to be sure.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Razgovory on October 18, 2012, 08:28:17 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 18, 2012, 06:53:03 AM
Anyway, in times like this, I kinda wonder how did the police manage to get by in the old days when tasers werent available? Because I'm pretty sure bobbies did not just go around shooting random people down - and I'm also pretty sure swords have been the technological advance known in Britain for quite a while.

They used sticks.  Bobbies rarely had guns.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: The Brain on October 18, 2012, 10:01:57 AM
Today in the subway I saw two blind people with sticks. Funny how no one, out of hundreds of people around, started freaking out and calling the cops. Maybe BB and CdM are even more unique snowflakes than we give them credit for.
Title: Re: Épée Police Fail.
Post by: Scipio on October 18, 2012, 07:14:19 PM
In other news, Zatoichi beheaded the corrupt prefecture policeman and went back to whistling.