Ok, this is purely anecdotal, but these days whenever I travel to Western Europe (recently, Spain, the Netherlands, the UK) I am having an impression that things - such as streets, coffee shops, restaurants, etc. - are actually more dirty, dodgy and lower quality than in Warsaw. Now, I know it's all relative and there are parts of Warsaw that are much worse than that, but I guess I am used to seeing everything being exponentially better in Western Europe than it is in Warsaw.
So the question from the thread title - because I don't think Poland has actually caught up so fast.
I guess around your home you know where all the good places are and where the dumps are so only see the good places.
When you're a tourist its hit and miss.
Quote from: Tyr on October 01, 2012, 04:16:09 AM
I guess around your home you know where all the good places are and where the dumps are so only see the good places.
When you're a tourist its hit and miss.
Still, I'm usually judging by, say, chain restaurants. Right now I'm at a Starbucks in Amsterdam's Hilton and it looks like dump compared to each of the Warsaw ones I have been to.
Hilton is a dump in general compared to the lifestyle you can probably buy with your income in Warsaw.
And the best KFC I was in was in Krakow, the worst in Budapest, and so-so in various western cities.
OMG POLAND IS RULERING THE WORLD.
There might be a difference in the status of chain restaurants from country to country. I wouldn't dream of using Starbucks or KFC except when on the road for example, maybe my Polish equivalent would. OTOH, in Preston I use a private place called the mystery tea house which has simple excellent food and a wide range of speciality teas, it is owned and run by Poles :D
I would never go to a UK McDonalds but I rather enjoyed one in Paris, where I had a (Mc) goats cheese salad and a beer.
By the way Mart, I'm in Brussels for work tonight just off Avenue Louise. Can you remember where's good to hang out on your own? Not Starbucks... :P
In answer to the question, UK high streets began their recent decline about the same time Polish immigration reached epic levels, so maybe the quality of the environment is inversely proportional to the local Polish population :P
Maybe you should go to nicer places in Western Europe.
BTW that might be too.
There are certain people over here, altough shallow ones and on sharp decline, for whom places like McDonalds and such are nice places, since they cost a fortune, ergo THEY ARE PRESTIGOUS
While in western europe they seem to be frequented by the youth and the downtrodden.
I suppose that's one way of measuring the decline of civilization - looking at the standard of care put into chain restaurants.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 01, 2012, 05:16:30 AM
There might be a difference in the status of chain restaurants from country to country. I wouldn't dream of using Starbucks or KFC except when on the road for example, maybe my Polish equivalent would. OTOH, in Preston I use a private place called the mystery tea house which has simple excellent food and a wide range of speciality teas, it is owned and run by Poles :D
Yeah, one man's cheap crap is another man's exotic luxury.
Japanese McDonalds is pretty decent, in the UK its bad and from what I hear in the US its even worse.
Starbucks in Korea I hear is a huge luxury.
On the flipside conveyorbelt sushi is really cheap (<£1 a plate) low class food here. Back home it is rather pricey.
In Poland I'd guess western chains are somewhat more upmarket?
Martinus, sometimes legacy plays a role. For example, Hiltons in Eastern Europe are probably much newer than those in Western Europe. A lot of people comment on how awesome Chinese infrastructure seems compared to what is in the west (eg, airports), but then those are often recently built while our airports have grown to their current sizes during a century of additions.
Martinus, but in general, I think you have a point. I think it is because Poland has limited immigration, which is prevelant in Western European cities.
Places look shabby during economic downturns.
I think the entire western world is struggling with the economic implications of globalization but I do not think there is some sort of terminal decline going on for Western Europe specifically...well ok maybe demographically but Eastern Europe is doing far worse in that department.
hmmm.. maybe Western Europe should power the reversal of it's decline by attatching a dynamo to the spinning corpse of Oswald Spengler. :rolleyes:
Western Europe started allowing Poles in to work. Western Europe begins to look shody. Coincidence?
The question was "Is Western Europe declining?" Learn to read. :P
Quote from: Brazen on October 01, 2012, 05:24:46 AM
I would never go to a UK McDonalds but I rather enjoyed one in Paris, where I had a (Mc) goats cheese salad and a beer.
By the way Mart, I'm in Brussels for work tonight just off Avenue Louise. Can you remember where's good to hang out on your own? Not Starbucks... :P
There are some very nice restaurants at Jourdanstraat and the other one that runs in parallel to it that I forgot the name of. :)
Quote from: Brazen on October 01, 2012, 05:24:46 AM
I would never go to a UK McDonalds but I rather enjoyed one in Paris, where I had a (Mc) goats cheese salad and a beer.
The restaurant chains do vary their menu in different countries, which might make going to one more or less attractive, but Marti wasn't talking about that--he was talking about standards of cleanliness, which really shouldn't be all that variable.
OTOH, while standards of cleanliness in a given restaurant chain
shouldn't be variable, in practice they are even within the confines of a single US state. Heck, even within a single location--when I worked for Burger King, on days that I opened, I could walk in first thing in the morning and tell you which of the other managers had closed the night before without knowing their schedule, just by looking at the condition of the store.
Why would you go to a Macdonald's in Paris? Or anywhere for that matter?
It's one of the few restaurants with free public wifi in Georgia.
fiddy cent ice cream cones.
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on October 01, 2012, 01:10:51 PM
It's one of the few restaurants with free public wifi in Georgia.
Why do you want free wifi at a restaurant?
To download shit. The 3G modems here have a 5 gb monthly cap.
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on October 01, 2012, 01:19:43 PM
To download shit. The 3G modems here have a 5 gb monthly cap.
Dont you have things like coffee shops with free access so you can then go to a real restaurant.
I'm not in Georgia the state.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 01:23:33 PM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on October 01, 2012, 01:19:43 PM
To download shit. The 3G modems here have a 5 gb monthly cap.
Dont you have things like coffee shops with free access so you can then go to a real restaurant.
You clearly way overestimate the coffee shops of Tbilisi.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 11:42:01 AM
Why would you go to a Macdonald's in Paris? Or anywhere for that matter?
:yes: They don't even have Triple Stackers.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 11:42:01 AM
Why would you go to a Macdonald's in Paris? Or anywhere for that matter?
McGriddles. :mmm: Also, their burgers are edible if it's late night/early morning and nobody else is open.
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on October 01, 2012, 01:27:37 PM
I'm not in Georgia the state.
I gathered that, which is why I worded the question they way I did. Otherwise I simply would have called an idiot for going to Macdonald's to get free internet access.
Also, I recognize the irony that by asking you these questions I am increasing the likelihood you will have to buy a big mac in order to respond.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 02:46:42 PM
Also, I recognize the irony that by asking you these questions I am increasing the likelihood you will have to buy a big mac in order to respond.
McDonald's has a lot of items on their menu. Probably possible to use their wireless without purchasing a food item.
Quote from: garbon on October 01, 2012, 02:54:18 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 02:46:42 PM
Also, I recognize the irony that by asking you these questions I am increasing the likelihood you will have to buy a big mac in order to respond.
McDonald's has a lot of items on their menu. Probably possible to use their wireless without purchasing a food item.
I will take your word for it.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 11:42:01 AM
Why would you go to a Macdonald's in Paris? Or anywhere for that matter?
Maybe you need a quick meal and they are close by? I am not a big fan of Fast Food Hamburger joints, and the one I do go to I never get a burger, but McDonalds is hardly the worst thing in history.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 11:42:01 AM
Why would you go to a Macdonald's in Paris? Or anywhere for that matter?
If I'm overseas I try to locate the nearest subway and then eat there almost every day. It is healthyish, quick, and cheap.
I'll mix in a trip to McDonalds too. McDonalds is great if you are driving and need internet access. Sure you can theoretically find a coffee shop somewhere, but if you are in the middle of some country you don't speak the language, it can be much harder to find than a McDonalds (and McDonalds is usually locatable through GPS--random coffee shops not so much). It also has edible American food.
I'm something of a fan of McD's for breakfast - an egg mcmuffin or breakfast burrito is pretty healthy compared to anywhere else comparable.
Once 10:30 rolls around, forget it though.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 03:04:13 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 01, 2012, 02:54:18 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 02:46:42 PM
Also, I recognize the irony that by asking you these questions I am increasing the likelihood you will have to buy a big mac in order to respond.
McDonald's has a lot of items on their menu. Probably possible to use their wireless without purchasing a food item.
I will take your word for it.
You're going to stop talking disdainfully about things that you know nothing about? How refreshing!
Quote from: Barrister on October 01, 2012, 03:23:05 PM
I'm something of a fan of McD's for breakfast - an egg mcmuffin or breakfast burrito is pretty healthy compared to anywhere else comparable.
Once 10:30 rolls around, forget it though.
I had an egg mcmuffin this morning. One of two McDonalds menu items I really like.
Not sure I recognise the UK described in the opening post. The gentrification of London, for example, has been absolutely relentless. You can't throw a stone without hitting some sort of hybrid artisanal push-chair/organic wall paint store.
Quote from: Valmy on October 01, 2012, 03:08:34 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 11:42:01 AM
Why would you go to a Macdonald's in Paris? Or anywhere for that matter?
Maybe you need a quick meal and they are close by? I am not a big fan of Fast Food Hamburger joints, and the one I do go to I never get a burger, but McDonalds is hardly the worst thing in history.
lots of ways to get quick meals in Paris. Cafes line the streets.
Quote from: alfred russel on October 01, 2012, 03:12:29 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 11:42:01 AM
Why would you go to a Macdonald's in Paris? Or anywhere for that matter?
If I'm overseas I try to locate the nearest subway and then eat there almost every day. It is healthyish, quick, and cheap.
I'll mix in a trip to McDonalds too. McDonalds is great if you are driving and need internet access. Sure you can theoretically find a coffee shop somewhere, but if you are in the middle of some country you don't speak the language, it can be much harder to find than a McDonalds (and McDonalds is usually locatable through GPS--random coffee shops not so much). It also has edible American food.
You suck
If you rank Mcdonalds as edible American food I would hate to see what you yanks consider less than McDonalds.
No wonder I have trouble relating to most of you. Just look at what you consider appropriate food to eat.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 04:14:34 PM
lots of ways to get quick meals in Paris. Cafes line the streets.
Ok but what if they were close by and you did not have an irrational need to eat at someplace other than McDonalds like you do?
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 04:15:03 PM
If you rank Mcdonalds as edible American food I would hate to see what you yanks consider less than McDonalds.
What the hell is wrong with McDonalds? It is a middle of the road fast food joint. I make myself sandwiches alot and generally they do a better job then me sticking ham and cheese between two pieces of bread with a little butter. But you...what? Have your personal chef or something?
Quote from: Valmy on October 01, 2012, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 04:14:34 PM
lots of ways to get quick meals in Paris. Cafes line the streets.
Ok but what if they were close by and you did not have an irrational need to eat at someplace other than McDonalds like you do?
Again, why would you even consider eating shit when you can have something decent.
Quote from: Valmy on October 01, 2012, 04:24:30 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 04:15:03 PM
If you rank Mcdonalds as edible American food I would hate to see what you yanks consider less than McDonalds.
What the hell is wrong with McDonalds?
We are worlds apart.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 04:26:00 PM
We are worlds apart.
I cannot even remember the last time I ate at McDonalds, I am sure it was years ago, but it is just a freaking piece of meat on a bun or a salad or a cup of coffee or something. I mean how much gourmet expertise do you need for that stuff?
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 04:15:03 PM
You suck
If you rank Mcdonalds as edible American food I would hate to see what you yanks consider less than McDonalds.
Sometimes I have problems keeping weight on when traveling for extended periods. It isn't that I don't like the fare in other countries, but I really struggle when I eat it every day in restaurants/hotels and breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I rarely eat at Subway in the US, and almost never McDonalds, but food like that is what I grew up with and it is a reliable meal that keeps me from dropping pounds.
Quote from: Valmy on October 01, 2012, 04:32:00 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 04:26:00 PM
We are worlds apart.
I cannot even remember the last time I ate at McDonalds, I am sure it was years ago, but it is just a freaking piece of meat on a bun or a salad or a cup of coffee or something. I mean how much gourmet expertise do you need for that stuff?
meat?
Quote from: alfred russel on October 01, 2012, 04:32:41 PM
Sometimes I have problems keeping weight on when traveling for extended periods. It isn't that I don't like the fare in other countries, but I really struggle when I eat it every day in restaurants/hotels and breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I rarely eat at Subway in the US, and almost never McDonalds, but food like that is what I grew up with and it is a reliable meal that keeps me from dropping pounds.
I think you are trolling now
The fries at Metro Cadet Mickey d's are delicious.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 05:19:03 PM
meat?
Dead animal parts. I think you're familiar with the concept. :hmm:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 01, 2012, 05:34:48 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 05:19:03 PM
meat?
Dead animal parts. I think you're familiar with the concept. :hmm:
Yeah, I understand the bit about dead animal parts - we normally refer to that as offal not meat.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 05:38:33 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 01, 2012, 05:34:48 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 05:19:03 PM
meat?
Dead animal parts. I think you're familiar with the concept. :hmm:
Yeah, I understand the bit about dead animal parts - we normally refer to that as offal not meat.
I guess I was premature with my how refreshing comment. :(
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 05:21:07 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 01, 2012, 04:32:41 PM
Sometimes I have problems keeping weight on when traveling for extended periods. It isn't that I don't like the fare in other countries, but I really struggle when I eat it every day in restaurants/hotels and breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I rarely eat at Subway in the US, and almost never McDonalds, but food like that is what I grew up with and it is a reliable meal that keeps me from dropping pounds.
I think you are trolling now
Because I have trouble quickly adjusting to an all foreign diet? :D
There is a guy I know who was doing an assignment in India. He got an incredible craving for Taco Bell. He was trying to find the nearest Taco Bell with the plan to fly there over the weekend, but the Taco Bell website didn't list international locations. He emailed the company to get more information and to complain their website was incomplete. I don't remember if he made it to the Taco Bell, but I do understand where he was coming from.
First world problem in a third world country :lol:
Valmy frenchness is suspect in light of this thread.
Quote from: Iormlund on October 02, 2012, 11:15:29 AM
Valmy frenchness is suspect in light of this thread.
Meh the French ate at McDonalds in vast numbers when I was there. I never eat at McDonalds and certainly never ate any fast food when I was in France.
Quote from: alfred russel on October 01, 2012, 07:04:35 PM
There is a guy I know who was doing an assignment in India. He got an incredible craving for Taco Bell. He was trying to find the nearest Taco Bell with the plan to fly there over the weekend, but the Taco Bell website didn't list international locations. He emailed the company to get more information and to complain their website was incomplete. I don't remember if he made it to the Taco Bell, but I do understand where he was coming from.
:x
No. Going to Taco Bell is suspect and then spending a lot of effort to get Taco Bell? Just shameful.
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 05:19:03 PM
meat?
Look if I am going to consume something as super high calorie and fat loaded as a Hamburger I am going to make it worth my while and pay premium but I am reasonable certain billions of people are at least getting standard Hamburger patties at McDonalds.
Quote from: Valmy on October 02, 2012, 11:33:52 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 01, 2012, 05:19:03 PM
meat?
Look if I am going to consume something as super high calorie and fat loaded as a Hamburger I am going to make it worth my while and pay premium but I am reasonable certain billions of people are at least getting standard Hamburger patties at McDonalds.
Yeah, but its the standards used to create the standard patty I am refering to.