WTF!? That's a crazy award. At least 100 times too much.
http://bottomline.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/11/13804631-once-jailed-banker-gets-104-million-whistleblower-payout?lite
QuoteBy Eamon Javers, cnbc.com
Attorneys for jailed former Swiss banker Bradley Birkenfeld announced Tuesday that the IRS will pay him $104 million as a whistleblower reward for information he turned over to the US government.
The information Birkenfeld revealed detailed the inner workings of the secretive private wealth management division of the Swiss bank UBS, where the American-born Birkenfeld helped his US clients evade taxes by hiding wealth overseas.
At one point during his private banking career, Birkenfeld reportedly brought diamonds across the US border secured inside a toothpaste tube.
Tuesday's announcement represents an astonishing turn of fortune for Birkenfeld, who was released from federal prison in August after serving 31 months on charges relating to his efforts to help a wealthy client avoid taxes.
He is currently under home confinement in New Hampshire. The terms of his probation prevented Birkenfeld from attending the press conference announcing his windfall.
Birkenfeld attorney Stephen Kohn said the information the former Swiss banker turned over to the IRS led directly to the $780 million fine paid to the US by his former employer, UBS, as well as leading over 35,000 taxpayers to participate in amnesty programs to voluntarily repatriate their illegal offshore accounts. Kohn said that resulted in the collection of over $5 billion dollars in back taxes, fines and penalties that otherwise would have remained outside the reach of the government.
CNBC.com: Feds talking "The Cure"
Birkenfeld's disclosures also led to the first cracks in the legendarily secretive Swiss banking system, and ultimately the Swiss government changed its tax treaty with the United States. UBS turned over the names of more than than 4,900 U.S. taxpayers who held illegal offshore accounts. Investigations into those accounts are ongoing.
In an interview with CNBC conducted in federal prison in 2011, Birkenfeld emphasized the value he had as an insider: "I knew the other bankers. I knew the other banks. And I knew the headhunters," Birkenfeld said at the time. "So, I knew exactly who was doing this business."
Under the IRS whistleblower program which was revamped in 2006, informants are entitled to a percentage of the dollars recovered by the US government when fraud is exposed.
This decision is expected to send a message to other potential informants that there is money, potentially big money, in turning to the government.
One million dollar payout wouldn't make the news and entice other bankers to snitch. Besides, even $100 million is peanuts compared to total amount we expropriated.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 11, 2012, 09:19:37 PM
WTF!? That's a crazy award. At least 100 times too much.
Are you an idiot? How would 1 million serve as an incentive for a lifetime career-terminating move (not to mention, probably finding himself on a hit list or a dozen) for someone who earns several times that over a year.
h-h-hitlist? :unsure:
Well if I was in charge there would much more severe penalties for these sorts of crimes, so a plea deal with a reduced sentence would be quite an inducement for this fellow.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 12, 2012, 02:45:51 AM
Well if I was in charge there would much more severe penalties for these sorts of crimes, so a plea deal with a reduced sentence would be quite an inducement for this fellow.
Good that you are not in charge, you fucking idiot. Such "crimes" are notoriously difficult to discover without insider knowledge and often are in the grey area of legality, so severe penalties would be neither fair nor they would act as a deterrent. Seriously, you are probably the most imbecilic person I know - so full of idiocy, I sometimes want to strangle you with my bare hands or smash your face in with a sledge hammer.
Quote from: Martinus on September 12, 2012, 03:09:18 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 12, 2012, 02:45:51 AM
Well if I was in charge there would much more severe penalties for these sorts of crimes, so a plea deal with a reduced sentence would be quite an inducement for this fellow.
Good that you are not in charge, you fucking idiot. Such "crimes" are notoriously difficult to discover without insider knowledge and often are in the grey area of legality, so severe penalties would be neither fair nor they would act as a deterrent. Seriously, you are probably the most imbecilic person I know - so full of idiocy, I sometimes want to strangle you with my bare hands or smash your face in with a sledge hammer.
LOL, someones on the rag.
Quote from: Jaron on September 12, 2012, 02:03:26 AM
h-h-hitlist? :unsure:
Dead men have a hard time testifying in court.
That seems silly. If someone is committing tax crimes, surely there should be evidence more substantial than an individuals testimony. :P
I'm sure Martinus would agree with me, were he not busy fantasizing about hammers and Timmy's face.
Even if that's true, there's also the angle of revenge. You send a guy to jail or cost him hundreds of millions of dollars, he won't be too happy with you.
It is true, and this 'revenge' angle is just something that happens in movies and naive Polish "lawyers" fantasies. Most likely, the involved parties commit suicide, at which point murdering people out of spite because a futile gesture.
Yeah, what about that fellow who offed his ex-boss at the Empire State Building last month(and caused the NYPD to shoot a bunch of random bystanders)? Was that just something from a movie?
This is way different. You're talking about mental instability, I'm talking about rationally planned out vengeance killing for whistle blowing. Yes, we all know individuals crack and shoot up their source of angst: schools, work places, the home of an ex-spouse.
But putting people on a hit list because they blew a whistle*? No, that is far fetched.
* - You just put your lips together and you come real close.
Quote from: Jaron on September 12, 2012, 03:52:05 AM
Yes, we all know individuals crack and shoot up their source of angst:
:contract:
Quote from: Jaron on September 12, 2012, 03:52:05 AM
This is way different. You're talking about mental instability, I'm talking about rationally planned out vengeance killing for whistle blowing. Yes, we all know individuals crack and shoot up their source of angst: schools, work places, the home of an ex-spouse.
But putting people on a hit list because they blew a whistle*? No, that is far fetched.
* - You just put your lips together and you come real close.
Swiss bankers do a lot of work for Russian and Islamic businessmen, the two types that are rather big on revenge.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 12, 2012, 03:59:41 AM
Quote from: Jaron on September 12, 2012, 03:52:05 AM
Yes, we all know individuals crack and shoot up their source of angst:
:contract:
Not applicable, anymore than a school shooting is an indicator teachers who fail students are prone to vengeance killings or being added to 'hit lists'.
Quote from: Martinus on September 12, 2012, 04:04:43 AM
Quote from: Jaron on September 12, 2012, 03:52:05 AM
This is way different. You're talking about mental instability, I'm talking about rationally planned out vengeance killing for whistle blowing. Yes, we all know individuals crack and shoot up their source of angst: schools, work places, the home of an ex-spouse.
But putting people on a hit list because they blew a whistle*? No, that is far fetched.
* - You just put your lips together and you come real close.
Swiss bankers do a lot of work for Russian and Islamic businessmen, the two types that are rather big on revenge.
That's a very silly argument. It is weak and lacks any kind of substantial foundation. You are saying if a then b, when a is unsubstantiated. Your fear of Russians and your hatred of Muslims is leaking into your arguments and breaking it apart before our very eyes. It is the same type of knee jerk reaction that plagues discussion about homosexuals -- not to play the gay card, but being that you're so exposed to that type of weak logic I would imagine you'd be better than that.
Who is the source of hypothetical assassin hirer's angst? The whistle-blower of course.
The whistleblower law specifies the cut of the damages the whistleblower gets. It's not discretionary AFAIK.
Quote from: Jaron on September 12, 2012, 04:13:26 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 12, 2012, 04:04:43 AM
Quote from: Jaron on September 12, 2012, 03:52:05 AM
This is way different. You're talking about mental instability, I'm talking about rationally planned out vengeance killing for whistle blowing. Yes, we all know individuals crack and shoot up their source of angst: schools, work places, the home of an ex-spouse.
But putting people on a hit list because they blew a whistle*? No, that is far fetched.
* - You just put your lips together and you come real close.
Swiss bankers do a lot of work for Russian and Islamic businessmen, the two types that are rather big on revenge.
That's a very silly argument. It is weak and lacks any kind of substantial foundation. You are saying if a then b, when a is unsubstantiated. Your fear of Russians and your hatred of Muslims is leaking into your arguments and breaking it apart before our very eyes. It is the same type of knee jerk reaction that plagues discussion about homosexuals -- not to play the gay card, but being that you're so exposed to that type of weak logic I would imagine you'd be better than that.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.crooksandliars.com%2Ffiles%2Fuploads%2F2007%2F05%2F21litvinenkogi.jpg&hash=b61de0a3f282400ec9d9718ec1f639c814d507ef)
No, my fear of Russians taking revenge on people is completely unsubstantiated.
Quote from: Martinus on September 12, 2012, 03:09:18 AM
Seriously, you are probably the most imbecilic person I know - so full of idiocy, I sometimes want to strangle you with my bare hands or smash your face in with a sledge hammer.
Remember, you're going to want to choke up on the grip, knees slightly bent, and be sure to turn your hips into the swing.
Quote from: Martinus on September 12, 2012, 03:09:18 AM
Good that you are not in charge, you fucking idiot. Such "crimes" are notoriously difficult to discover without insider knowledge and often are in the grey area of legality, so severe penalties would be neither fair nor they would act as a deterrent. Seriously, you are probably the most imbecilic person I know - so full of idiocy, I sometimes want to strangle you with my bare hands or smash your face in with a sledge hammer.
:lmfao: Hilarious mental image.
Marti is angry this morning, it's like he forgotten all the anti-gay people he has a met & concentrated his anger on poor Tim.
I have notice, the more & more time the languish expat spend in Asia, the more dense they become.
Quote from: Jaron on September 12, 2012, 03:52:05 AM
* - You just put your lips together and you come real close.
:angry:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 12, 2012, 06:55:53 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 12, 2012, 03:09:18 AM
Seriously, you are probably the most imbecilic person I know - so full of idiocy, I sometimes want to strangle you with my bare hands or smash your face in with a sledge hammer.
Remember, you're going to want to choke up on the grip, knees slightly bent, and be sure to turn your hips into the swing.
Is this one of those fetish swing things with a mounted dildo?
Quote from: garbon on September 12, 2012, 07:39:55 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 12, 2012, 06:55:53 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 12, 2012, 03:09:18 AM
Seriously, you are probably the most imbecilic person I know - so full of idiocy, I sometimes want to strangle you with my bare hands or smash your face in with a sledge hammer.
Remember, you're going to want to choke up on the grip, knees slightly bent, and be sure to turn your hips into the swing.
Is this one of those fetish swing things with a mounted dildo?
No, it was more like rotational swinging for baseball, but I guess it could apply to dildos.
Normally I'm not a fan of posters discussing the best methods to employ while torturing and killing other posters, but normally even Tim doesn't post things that silly. :hmm:
Quote from: Martinus on September 12, 2012, 03:09:18 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 12, 2012, 02:45:51 AM
Well if I was in charge there would much more severe penalties for these sorts of crimes, so a plea deal with a reduced sentence would be quite an inducement for this fellow.
Good that you are not in charge, you fucking idiot. Such "crimes" are notoriously difficult to discover without insider knowledge and often are in the grey area of legality, so severe penalties would be neither fair nor they would act as a deterrent. Seriously, you are probably the most imbecilic person I know - so full of idiocy, I sometimes want to strangle you with my bare hands or smash your face in with a sledge hammer.
They caught this guy without super secret insider knowledge didn't they? If his choice was 2 years in jail and tell, or keep quiet and spend 20, he'd tell.
Quote from: Martinus on September 12, 2012, 06:52:07 AM
Quote from: Jaron on September 12, 2012, 04:13:26 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 12, 2012, 04:04:43 AM
Quote from: Jaron on September 12, 2012, 03:52:05 AM
This is way different. You're talking about mental instability, I'm talking about rationally planned out vengeance killing for whistle blowing. Yes, we all know individuals crack and shoot up their source of angst: schools, work places, the home of an ex-spouse.
But putting people on a hit list because they blew a whistle*? No, that is far fetched.
* - You just put your lips together and you come real close.
Swiss bankers do a lot of work for Russian and Islamic businessmen, the two types that are rather big on revenge.
That's a very silly argument. It is weak and lacks any kind of substantial foundation. You are saying if a then b, when a is unsubstantiated. Your fear of Russians and your hatred of Muslims is leaking into your arguments and breaking it apart before our very eyes. It is the same type of knee jerk reaction that plagues discussion about homosexuals -- not to play the gay card, but being that you're so exposed to that type of weak logic I would imagine you'd be better than that.
No, my fear of Russians taking revenge on people is completely unsubstantiated.
No doubt the Russian mob is not a bunch you'd want to cross, but why exactly would they take revenge against an American ratting out his fellow Americans for tax fraud?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 12, 2012, 06:55:53 AM
Remember, you're going to want to choke up on the grip, knees slightly bent, and be sure to turn your hips into the swing.
Not at all. You want your hands close together at the end of the handle, legs braced, swing with the shoulders and pull back with the legs just before impact. It's not a fucking stick.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 12, 2012, 08:52:10 AM
They caught this guy without super secret insider knowledge didn't they? If his choice was 2 years in jail and tell, or keep quiet and spend 20, he'd tell.
No they didn't
Birkenfeld resigned from UBS about a year before the DOJ probe began. DOJ did not even know his identity when BB first approached them through his attorneys.
The odd outcome here is due to the fact that the IRS rules for compensating whistleblowers are different from the Justice Dept guidelines for deciding when not to prosecute whistleblowers. Birkenfeld basically rolled the dice that DOJ wouldn't prosecute him criminally if he gave the information he had to give to collect the IRS award, and it didn't work out. But he was stil eligible for the IRS award.
I've always been suspicious of the effects of the huge whistleblower rewards...I think the most important control you can have to keep a financial crime from happening in your company is to enable people to raise issues internally as soon as they sense something might be wrong. The whistleblower reward system can give gigantic rewards to people that intentionally let a problem fester and then report it to the government when the losses start to accumulate.
Quote from: alfred russel on September 12, 2012, 04:00:09 PM
I've always been suspicious of the effects of the huge whistleblower rewards...I think the most important control you can have to keep a financial crime from happening in your company is to enable people to raise issues internally as soon as they sense something might be wrong. The whistleblower reward system can give gigantic rewards to people that intentionally let a problem fester and then report it to the government when the losses start to accumulate.
True, but it's a risky gamble. After all, the longer you let it fester the greater the chance that someone else blows the whistle, swiping the reward and leaving you a simple accomplice rather than a whistleblower.
Quote from: Maximus on September 12, 2012, 12:53:36 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 12, 2012, 06:55:53 AM
Remember, you're going to want to choke up on the grip, knees slightly bent, and be sure to turn your hips into the swing.
Not at all. You want your hands close together at the end of the handle, legs braced, swing with the shoulders and pull back with the legs just before impact. It's not a fucking stick.
I was taking Marti's limp wrists into consideration, and going for the side shot.
Quote from: alfred russel on September 12, 2012, 04:00:09 PM
I've always been suspicious of the effects of the huge whistleblower rewards...I think the most important control you can have to keep a financial crime from happening in your company is to enable people to raise issues internally as soon as they sense something might be wrong. The whistleblower reward system can give gigantic rewards to people that intentionally let a problem fester and then report it to the government when the losses start to accumulate.
This suggests to me that companies should be rewarding their own internal whistle blowers with 10% + promotion to keep their own companies honest.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 12, 2012, 01:20:09 PM
No they didn't
Birkenfeld resigned from UBS about a year before the DOJ probe began. DOJ did not even know his identity when BB first approached them through his attorneys.
The odd outcome here is due to the fact that the IRS rules for compensating whistleblowers are different from the Justice Dept guidelines for deciding when not to prosecute whistleblowers. Birkenfeld basically rolled the dice that DOJ wouldn't prosecute him criminally if he gave the information he had to give to collect the IRS award, and it didn't work out. But he was stil eligible for the IRS award.
Fair dinkum I say. The guy has cojones and does prove that "these people" really only do care about money.