http://www.jpost.com/IranianThreat/News/Article.aspx?id=283453
Quote
Iran, North Korea unite against 'common enemies'
By REUTERS
09/01/2012 18:47
'ILNA' reports countries have signed cooperation agreement in science, technology at NAM summit meeting in Tehran.
DUBAI - Iran and North Korea have signed an agreement to cooperate in science and technology, Iranian media reported on Saturday, and Iran's supreme leader declared that the two countries had "common enemies."
The two countries will cooperate in research, student exchanges and joint laboratories, and in the fields of information technology, engineering, biotechnology, renewable energy, the environment, sustainable development of agriculture and food technology, the Iranian Labor News Agency (ILNA) reported.
Related:
ILNA said the agreement was signed by Iran's Minister for Science, Research, and Technology Farhad Daneshjoo and North Korean Foreign Minister Pak Ui-chun.
North Korea has had close ties with Iran. Leaked US diplomatic cables from 2010 showed that US officials believe Iran has acquired ballistic missile parts from North Korea.
Pyongyang's Communist government and Iran's Islamic republic share little in the way of ideology, but both were named as part of an "axis of evil" by former US President George W. Bush in his 2002 State of the Union speech.
Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei also met with North Korea's Kim Yong-nam, seen as a figurehead head of state, who was in Tehran for the Non-Aligned Movement summit held this week.
"The Islamic Republic of Iran and North Korea have common enemies, because the arrogant powers do not accept independent states," Khamenei was quoted as saying by ILNA on Saturday.
There had been rumors that North Korean supreme leader Kim Jong-un would attend the summit of developing countries. The Non-Aligned Movement is one of the few multilateral forums in which the North takes part.
Iran's first vice-president, Mohammad Reza Rahimi, also called on Saturday for greater economic ties between his country and North Korea, Iranian state television reported.
Was Bush: clairvoyant?
Joint laboratories. :smoke:
I'm proud to be a citizen of the Arrogant Powers. :bowler:
QuoteIran's first vice-president, Mohammad Reza Rahimi, also called on Saturday for greater economic ties between his country and North Korea, Iranian state television reported
The vast economic production of North Korea will soon be at their disposal!
Quote from: Valmy on September 02, 2012, 12:06:10 AM
QuoteIran's first vice-president, Mohammad Reza Rahimi, also called on Saturday for greater economic ties between his country and North Korea, Iranian state television reported
The vast economic production of North Korea will soon be at their disposal!
It's really all about getting their hands on Korean nukes.
QuotePyongyang's Communist government
:bleeding:
Reporting fail
I think we need a Crusade.
QuoteIran and North Korea have signed an agreement to cooperate in science and technology,
Good, they can have fun trading compromised thumb drives back and forth.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmightygodking.com%2Fimages%2Fkimjong8.jpg&hash=aea472706659172a1a2a1ce9756bcbd7313934b4)
Quote from: Tyr on September 02, 2012, 07:16:44 AM
QuotePyongyang's Communist government
:bleeding:
Reporting fail
Huh?
Quote from: Neil on September 02, 2012, 11:23:50 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 02, 2012, 07:16:44 AM
QuotePyongyang's Communist government
:bleeding:
Reporting fail
Huh?
I think they recently removed references to Marx and stuff from their constitution and such. Not that it matters. It's still a Stalinist state.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 02, 2012, 12:17:18 PM
Quote from: Neil on September 02, 2012, 11:23:50 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 02, 2012, 07:16:44 AM
QuotePyongyang's Communist government
:bleeding:
Reporting fail
Huh?
I think they recently removed references to Marx and stuff from their constitution and such. Not that it matters. It's still a Stalinist state.
Oh, so it's actually an ideology fail by Jos.
I thought they were already allies and cooperating, along with other notable nations like Chavez' messed up Venezuela.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 02, 2012, 12:17:18 PM
I think they recently removed references to Marx and stuff from their constitution and such. Not that it matters. It's still a Stalinist state.
Only as far as stalinist can be taken to mean fascist in all but name psychotic dictatorship (which Stalin's Russia pretty much was...but anyway).
North Korea is completely non-communist even in the cold war sense of the word...but calling it such helps to sell papers and get people riled up about it being scarier than it is.
Quote from: Tyr on September 02, 2012, 08:31:37 PM
Only as far as stalinist can be taken to mean fascist in all but name psychotic dictatorship (which Stalin's Russia pretty much was...but anyway).
North Korea is completely non-communist even in the cold war sense of the word...but calling it such helps to sell papers and get people riled up about it being scarier than it is.
:lol: How scary is it in reality Squeeze? This is a country that launched an invasion resulting in millions of deaths, never signed a peace treaty, kidnaps foreigners to teach spies their language, blew up the entire South Korean cabinet, chopped up some soldiers in the demilitarized zone with axes, has sunk a few South Korean ships, shelled a South Korean island, builds and tests nuclear warheads and missiles, and threatens to use them.
So I'd really love to know Squeeze how scared we should be of North Korea. Like Scotland, or closer to Wales?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 02, 2012, 08:40:14 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 02, 2012, 08:31:37 PM
Only as far as stalinist can be taken to mean fascist in all but name psychotic dictatorship (which Stalin's Russia pretty much was...but anyway).
North Korea is completely non-communist even in the cold war sense of the word...but calling it such helps to sell papers and get people riled up about it being scarier than it is.
:lol: How scary is it in reality Squeeze? This is a country that launched an invasion resulting in millions of deaths, never signed a peace treaty, kidnaps foreigners to teach spies their language, blew up the entire South Korean cabinet, chopped up some soldiers in the demilitarized zone with axes, has sunk a few South Korean ships, shelled a South Korean island, builds and tests nuclear warheads and missiles, and threatens to use them.
So I'd really love to know Squeeze how scared we should be of North Korea. Like Scotland, or closer to Wales?
They also sell at least the missiles to third parties.
The pile on sign is lit.
Do North Korean trains run on time?
I like how the 12'ers are teaming up with the atheists against the people of the book. Ali would not approve.
A group of jews and fags managed to build a bomb with 2 billion dollars in two years 70 years ago. The Iranians have the cash, the raw material, the technology and blueprints and they still can't build the damn thing. Any decent university with a chemistry, physics and engineering departments could manage to explode a bomb with the same resources.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 02, 2012, 08:40:14 PM
:lol: How scary is it in reality Squeeze? This is a country that launched an invasion resulting in millions of deaths, never signed a peace treaty, kidnaps foreigners to teach spies their language, blew up the entire South Korean cabinet, chopped up some soldiers in the demilitarized zone with axes, has sunk a few South Korean ships, shelled a South Korean island, builds and tests nuclear warheads and missiles, and threatens to use them.
So I'd really love to know Squeeze how scared we should be of North Korea. Like Scotland, or closer to Wales?
:lol: Well when you put it that way...
The problem is that Jos doesn't like North Korea, and he's incapable of admiting that anyone left-wing could be bad.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 02, 2012, 08:40:14 PM
:lol: How scary is it in reality Squeeze? This is a country that launched an invasion resulting in millions of deaths, never signed a peace treaty, kidnaps foreigners to teach spies their language, blew up the entire South Korean cabinet, chopped up some soldiers in the demilitarized zone with axes, has sunk a few South Korean ships, shelled a South Korean island, builds and tests nuclear warheads and missiles, and threatens to use them.
So I'd really love to know Squeeze how scared we should be of North Korea. Like Scotland, or closer to Wales?
Its a nasty country certainly, we should be dealing with it.
And if I was in South Korea I would be a bit worried about getting caught in the cross-fire should they decide to start trouble.
But its hardly a threat to the world as we know it, its a small, impoverished asian dictatorship. Not at all something to be scared of. More something to be pitied. By waving around 'communists!!111' however journalists can conjure up the ghosts of the cold war and make it seem like it could actually be a threat to the west.
Japan and even South Korea are a lot more a part of the West than where you come from in Coalton, East Shitholeshire.
Quote from: Tyr on September 02, 2012, 09:59:09 PM
Its a nasty country certainly, we should be dealing with it.
And if I was in South Korea I would be a bit worried about getting caught in the cross-fire should they decide to start trouble.
But its hardly a threat to the world as we know it, its a small, impoverished asian dictatorship. Not at all something to be scared of. More something to be pitied. By waving around 'communists!!111' however journalists can conjure up the ghosts of the cold war and make it seem like it could actually be a threat to the west.
They are not a threat to the West, they are a threat to South Korea and Japan. Just like Iran is not a threat to the West they are threat in Asia. And I do not get the cross fire thing. If North Korea was not threatening SOuth Korea or Japan we would not be messing with them at all.
And give it a rest you know and I know North Korea is basically portrayed as looney dictatorship more than some Marxist revolutionaries.
Quote from: Tyr on September 02, 2012, 08:31:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 02, 2012, 12:17:18 PM
I think they recently removed references to Marx and stuff from their constitution and such. Not that it matters. It's still a Stalinist state.
Only as far as stalinist can be taken to mean fascist in all but name psychotic dictatorship (which Stalin's Russia pretty much was...but anyway).
North Korea is completely non-communist even in the cold war sense of the word...but calling it such helps to sell papers and get people riled up about it being scarier than it is.
Oi, another " They aren't true communists! Real communists wouldn't do that!"? I don't see how Communist regime and a Psychotic dictatorship are mutually exclusive. They recently got a new printer and had all their letterhead changed, but they are still the same old guys. Considering the other communist regimes that East Asia has seen, it's they are that out of the ordinary. Personality cults, famine, weird sabre rattling are all what we see from Communist regimes in area. Hell, they haven't even passed the weirdness factor that was Cambodia.
Quote from: Tyr on September 02, 2012, 09:59:09 PM
But its hardly a threat to the world as we know it, its a small, impoverished asian dictatorship. Not at all something to be scared of. More something to be pitied. By waving around 'communists!!111' however journalists can conjure up the ghosts of the cold war and make it seem like it could actually be a threat to the west.
I see. So presumably you have encountered significant numbers of westerners who are quaking in their boots with fear of imminent North Korean invasion, led astray as they have been by fear-mongering journalists?
edit: And WTF do you mean by cross-fire? In 1950 South Korea got cross-fired down to the Pusan perimeter.
Quote from: Tyr on September 02, 2012, 09:59:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 02, 2012, 08:40:14 PM
:lol: How scary is it in reality Squeeze? This is a country that launched an invasion resulting in millions of deaths, never signed a peace treaty, kidnaps foreigners to teach spies their language, blew up the entire South Korean cabinet, chopped up some soldiers in the demilitarized zone with axes, has sunk a few South Korean ships, shelled a South Korean island, builds and tests nuclear warheads and missiles, and threatens to use them.
So I'd really love to know Squeeze how scared we should be of North Korea. Like Scotland, or closer to Wales?
Its a nasty country certainly, we should be dealing with it.
And if I was in South Korea I would be a bit worried about getting caught in the cross-fire should they decide to start trouble.
But its hardly a threat to the world as we know it, its a small, impoverished asian dictatorship. Not at all something to be scared of. More something to be pitied. By waving around 'communists!!111' however journalists can conjure up the ghosts of the cold war and make it seem like it could actually be a threat to the west.
Wait, crossfire? S. Korea would be the main target. A person might be poor and crazy and to be pitied, but when he holds a hostage (in this case the city Seoul), he's a threat. We don't regard N. Korea a threat because he can hurt people in the US or Europe. We regard them as threat cause they can hurt people in S. Korea and Japan.
Quote from: Valmy on September 02, 2012, 10:19:28 PM
They are not a threat to the West, they are a threat to South Korea and Japan. Just like Iran is not a threat to the West they are threat in Asia. But I guess if a country doesn't threaten white people they should be allowed to do whatever eh?
Thats a hell of a strawman.
Interesting you bring up Iran as its with Iran (obviously in league with all other islamic extremists) that this kind of crap of blowing up minor threats into Sovietesque genuine challenges to the west is most often seen.
Quote
And give it a rest you know and I know North Korea is basically portrayed as looney dictatorship more than some Marxist revolutionaries.
Usually so yes. Sometimes, including here though they are inaccurately called communist.
Amazing that my minor moan has turned into a full hijack :lol:
Iran was brought into the picture in the first post.
Tyr, you wouldn't get dog piled if you didn't say such silly things. You aren't as bad as MS and Marty, but God, sometimes you can be dense.
Quote from: Tyr on September 02, 2012, 10:58:26 PM
Interesting you bring up Iran as its with Iran (obviously in league with all other islamic extremists) that this kind of crap of blowing up minor threats into Sovietesque genuine challenges to the west is most often seen.
I thought this whole thread was about Iran and NOrth Korea? :hmm:
Anyway I dont think Iran is a threat to the west at all much less a minor threat. They are a regional threat to other people and they are mad the US, and others, will not let them spread their tentacles.
Quote from: Valmy on September 02, 2012, 11:02:55 PM
Anyway I dont think Iran is a threat to the west at all much less a minor threat. They are a regional threat to other people and they are mad the US, and others, will not let them spread their tentacles.
Disagree. The moment they develop their rudimentary little weapon, hand it off to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard who, with the assistance of Hezbollah, parks it in the middle of downtown Tel Aviv in a rental truck, is as much a threat to the West as it is to Israel.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 02, 2012, 11:09:35 PM
Disagree. The moment they develop their rudimentary little weapon, hand it off to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard who, with the assistance of Hezbollah, parks it in the middle of downtown Tel Aviv in a rental truck, is as much a threat to the West as it is to Israel.
That is not their plan though. They want to dominate the region not commit a national Komikaze attack.
Quote from: Valmy on September 02, 2012, 11:15:25 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 02, 2012, 11:09:35 PM
Disagree. The moment they develop their rudimentary little weapon, hand it off to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard who, with the assistance of Hezbollah, parks it in the middle of downtown Tel Aviv in a rental truck, is as much a threat to the West as it is to Israel.
That is not their plan though. They want to dominate the region not commit a national Komikaze attack.
The Problem is that we don't always know who "They" are. In a country like Iran, competing power blocs can control national assets. Some mid level idiot can okay such a plan without the rest of the leadership knowing. With things like the attempted assassination of Israeli agents in Europe and Asia and a plot to kill the Saudi Ambassador I don't think it's clear who calling the shots. That was the good thing about the Reds. It was always a top down operation. Initiative was frowned upon and everyone was to scared to take a shit without orders signed in triplicate. With Iran, who the knows?
Quote
Anyway I dont think Iran is a threat to the west at all much less a minor threat. They are a regional threat to other people and they are mad the US, and others, will not let them spread their tentacles.
Agreed.
Stuff about North Korea conquering the world is solidly kept in the realm of fantasy however.
Eurabia nonsense and other Islamophobia though....well a disturbingly large amount of people believe that and see Iran as a chief part of it.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 02, 2012, 11:01:06 PM
Iran was brought into the picture in the first post.
Tyr, you wouldn't get dog piled if you didn't say such silly things. You aren't as bad as MS and Marty, but God, sometimes you can be dense.
People in glass houses....
But what I said was not silly. Whether North Korea was ever of communist ideology/when it stopped being such is up for debate (it was never technically a communist state but the world tends not to care about such distinctions as communist ideology and actual communism. The word has changed and its established terminology these days so meh). Right now though it isn't communist in any sense of the word.
Maybe if you dig deeper you will be able to get out of that hole you are in.
Quote from: Tyr on September 02, 2012, 11:59:58 PM
But what I said was not silly. Whether North Korea was ever of communist ideology/when it stopped being such is up for debate (it was never technically a communist state but the world tends not to care about such distinctions as communist ideology and actual communism. The word has changed and its established terminology these days so meh). Right now though it isn't communist in any sense of the word.
If you'd stopped in your first post with your neo-Troskyite critique of North Korea I for one wouldn't have jumped on you. It's when you tried to fit your "the US picks fights with poor little countries that just want to be left alone and the evil corporate press whips up the war fever" template on North Korea that you got really silly.
I dunno, I find the Neo-Trotyskist thing silly as well. I find it annoying that some people suggest that we shouldn't judge communism by communist states. We judge monarchies but what they are in practice, not by some hypothetical kingdom ruled by a perfect individual divinely appointed.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 03, 2012, 12:21:23 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 02, 2012, 11:59:58 PM
But what I said was not silly. Whether North Korea was ever of communist ideology/when it stopped being such is up for debate (it was never technically a communist state but the world tends not to care about such distinctions as communist ideology and actual communism. The word has changed and its established terminology these days so meh). Right now though it isn't communist in any sense of the word.
If you'd stopped in your first post with your neo-Troskyite critique of North Korea I for one wouldn't have jumped on you. It's when you tried to fit your "the US picks fights with poor little countries that just want to be left alone and the evil corporate press whips up the war fever" template on North Korea that you got really silly.
eh?
I didn't say anything like that. The US totally should be picking on North Korea. It's a bad thing that it isn't doing that very much.
Nothing like a neo-trotskyist critique either except for the irrelevant little brackety ramble.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 03, 2012, 12:27:35 AM
I dunno, I find the Neo-Trotyskist thing silly as well. I find it annoying that some people suggest that we shouldn't judge communism by communist states. We judge monarchies but what they are in practice, not by some hypothetical kingdom ruled by a perfect individual divinely appointed.
I agree that North Korea is pretty scary. It's not a Russian Bear or a Chinese dragon, more a conrenered alley cat with some nasty claws. It won't destroy the west but it can give it a nasty kick in the balls.
But I agree with Tyr that it isn't a communist regime under any reasonable definition of that word. It is a kleptocracy pure and simple.
North Korea is Communist.
Quote from: Gups on September 03, 2012, 10:31:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 03, 2012, 12:27:35 AM
I dunno, I find the Neo-Trotyskist thing silly as well. I find it annoying that some people suggest that we shouldn't judge communism by communist states. We judge monarchies but what they are in practice, not by some hypothetical kingdom ruled by a perfect individual divinely appointed.
I agree that North Korea is pretty scary. It's not a Russian Bear or a Chinese dragon, more a conrenered alley cat with some nasty claws. It won't destroy the west but it can give it a nasty kick in the balls.
But I agree with Tyr that it isn't a communist regime under any reasonable definition of that word. It is a kleptocracy pure and simple.
I still don't see how that's mutually exclusive with a communist regime.
Kleptocracy isn't a very pure or simple term, as it describes a pattern of behavior that is spread across a large number of differing systems of government. The only thing that the term tells you is that somebody is stealing from the public, and that's true of African warlords just as it is Western politicians.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 03, 2012, 05:58:03 PM
I still don't see how that's mutually exclusive with a communist regime.
You don't see how an ideology aimed at distributing wealth equally might conflict with a system of government aimed at transferring wealth to a small number?
The sole purpose of North Korean policy is to keep the Kim family in power and money. Any ideological label they choose to affix the to the regime is a sham. That they used to call themselves communist 40 years ago is as meaningless as that they still call themselves democratic today.
Quote from: Gups on September 04, 2012, 03:01:42 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 03, 2012, 05:58:03 PM
I still don't see how that's mutually exclusive with a communist regime.
You don't see how an ideology aimed at distributing wealth equally might conflict with a system of government aimed at transferring wealth to a small number?
The sole purpose of North Korean policy is to keep the Kim family in power and money. Any ideological label they choose to affix the to the regime is a sham. That they used to call themselves communist 40 years ago is as meaningless as that they still call themselves democratic today.
Maybe it's because I'm not European or not a communist, but what I know of communist regimes that doesn't seem to be out of the ordinary. I think in all communist regimes the governing class lives better then the average person. That's how it works in practice.
So your definition of a communist regime is that the governing classes live better than the average person?
Quote from: Gups on September 04, 2012, 08:07:41 AM
So your definition of a communist regime is that the governing classes live better than the average person?
And the state controls means of production. So NK is communist, China not so much.
Quote from: Gups on September 04, 2012, 08:07:41 AM
So your definition of a communist regime is that the governing classes live better than the average person?
Whew, he was only trolling.
Quote from: Gups on September 04, 2012, 08:07:41 AM
So your definition of a communist regime is that the governing classes live better than the average person?
No, that's merely an observation.
One which applies AFAIK to every state in history and is therefore totally useless.
Wiggo's point is a fair one though. However when state and family are intinstinguishable (in a way they never were in the SU), it's hard to see how the means of pruduction are in public, let alone common, ownership.
Quote from: Gups on September 04, 2012, 03:01:42 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 03, 2012, 05:58:03 PM
I still don't see how that's mutually exclusive with a communist regime.
You don't see how an ideology aimed at distributing wealth equally might conflict with a system of government aimed at transferring wealth to a small number?
The sole purpose of North Korean policy is to keep the Kim family in power and money. Any ideological label they choose to affix the to the regime is a sham. That they used to call themselves communist 40 years ago is as meaningless as that they still call themselves democratic today.
It sounds like by your definition, no government has ever been communist then. USSR, PRC, eastern europe - all had the fundamental purpose of keeping the communist party in money and power. North Korea is somewhat unusual in making leadership hereditary, but that's about it. Communist officials had significant and substantial power, prestige and money in all communist governments.
Quote from: Gups on September 04, 2012, 09:02:00 AM
One which applies AFAIK to every state in history and is therefore totally useless.
Wiggo's point is a fair one though. However when state and family are intinstinguishable (in a way they never were in the SU), it's hard to see how the means of pruduction are in public, let alone common, ownership.
You didn't ask me what my definition was. You only asked "So your definition of a communist regime is that the governing classes live better than the average person?" It was a dumb question, but I answered it. I don't think the Kim family legally
owns the country of North Korea. And it seems unlikely that every member of the governing class is a also a member of the Kim family, so " when state and family are intinstinguishable" is not really applicable. The family dominates the state, but that's not really any different then other communist regimes where one strong man rules. We consider Cuba communist and the state is dominated by the Castro brothers.
Quote from: Razgovory on September 04, 2012, 07:49:43 AM
I think in all communist regimes the governing class lives better then the average person. That's how it works in practice.
Sounds like a definition of a communist regime to me.
Quote from: Gups on September 04, 2012, 09:26:40 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 04, 2012, 07:49:43 AM
I think in all communist regimes the governing class lives better then the average person. That's how it works in practice.
Sounds like a definition of a communist regime to me.
:unsure: Is Gups on drugs?
Quote from: Gups on September 04, 2012, 09:26:40 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 04, 2012, 07:49:43 AM
I think in all communist regimes the governing class lives better then the average person. That's how it works in practice.
Sounds like a definition of a communist regime to me.
Well, it's not. It's an observation.
Quote from: Barrister on September 04, 2012, 09:17:54 AM
It sounds like by your definition, no government has ever been communist then. USSR, PRC, eastern europe - all had the fundamental purpose of keeping the communist party in money and power. North Korea is somewhat unusual in making leadership hereditary, but that's about it. Communist officials had significant and substantial power, prestige and money in all communist governments.
If you ascribe to communism an ideological meaning - an equitable distribution of ownership - then no state has been communist and certainly not North Korea. One can argue as to whether its leaders tried or not.
If the definition of a communist state is to keep the communist party in power, then North Korea does not qualify. It does have similarities with Cuba but equally with Zimbabwe.
Quote from: Gups on September 03, 2012, 10:31:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 03, 2012, 12:27:35 AM
I dunno, I find the Neo-Trotyskist thing silly as well. I find it annoying that some people suggest that we shouldn't judge communism by communist states. We judge monarchies but what they are in practice, not by some hypothetical kingdom ruled by a perfect individual divinely appointed.
I agree that North Korea is pretty scary. It's not a Russian Bear or a Chinese dragon, more a conrenered alley cat with some nasty claws. It won't destroy the west but it can give it a nasty kick in the balls.
But I agree with Tyr that it isn't a communist regime under any reasonable definition of that word. It is a kleptocracy pure and simple.
Heh, the best analogy I have heard for NK and its nukes is that it is like a smelly, diseased and deranged-looking bum on the subway who aggressively panhandles the other passengers by sticking a grenade in its mouth and threatening to pull the pin if it doesn't get some pocket change NOW. ;)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmnftiu.cc%2Fblog%2Fimages%2Fwar.108.gif&hash=e96bab486bab7fe480eb19ed75f10307e5002c47)
Different note - I can't believe it has been over 9 years!
ugh
Quote from: Gups on September 04, 2012, 09:34:57 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 04, 2012, 09:17:54 AM
It sounds like by your definition, no government has ever been communist then. USSR, PRC, eastern europe - all had the fundamental purpose of keeping the communist party in money and power. North Korea is somewhat unusual in making leadership hereditary, but that's about it. Communist officials had significant and substantial power, prestige and money in all communist governments.
If you ascribe to communism an ideological meaning - an equitable distribution of ownership - then no state has been communist and certainly not North Korea. One can argue as to whether its leaders tried or not.
If the definition of a communist state is to keep the communist party in power, then North Korea does not qualify. It does have similarities with Cuba but equally with Zimbabwe.
Sounds an awful lot like communist apology - 'all those supposedly communist governments - well they weren't REAL communists'.
North Korea believes in government ownership of the means of production, is hostile to private markets (though there are some black markets which allow people to feed themselves), and government owns all the land. This is consistent with communist governments around the world, from Cuba to the USSR to Maoist China.
That is also not true of Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe has private ownership of land (though subject to arbitrary government seizure, it just gets handed over to another private owner).