How long till he gets out?
Do Scandinavian courts not even have life sentencing options?
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 24, 2012, 03:50:26 AM
Do Scandinavian courts not even have life sentencing options?
Life = 21 years.
Formally he gets a life sentence but that has been normalized to 21 years. And it is not 21 years prison, it is 21 years storage. So, even when the sentence is completed he will still have to convince a parole board that he should be released.
Glad the court didn't take the easy way out and rule that he was insane.
Quote from: Viking on August 24, 2012, 03:55:19 AM
Formally he gets a life sentence but that has been normalized to 21 years.
What does this mean?
Quote from: Legbiter on August 24, 2012, 05:12:12 AM
Glad the court didn't take the easy way out and rule that he was insane.
I thought that would be preferable - from what I heard from a Swedish friend, being declared insane would allow the crown to keep him locked up forever, whereas once he serves his time they can't stop him getting out (although what Viking is saying seems to contradict that).
In Sweden he would have gotten life.
Quote from: Legbiter on August 24, 2012, 05:12:12 AM
Glad the court didn't take the easy way out and rule that he was insane.
He has stated that he would appeal if he were ruled insane.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 24, 2012, 05:13:26 AM
Quote from: Viking on August 24, 2012, 03:55:19 AM
Formally he gets a life sentence but that has been normalized to 21 years.
What does this mean?
When you get sentenced to a life sentence you actually get sentenced to a 21 year sentence.
Quote from: Martinus on August 24, 2012, 05:43:06 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on August 24, 2012, 05:12:12 AM
Glad the court didn't take the easy way out and rule that he was insane.
I thought that would be preferable - from what I heard from a Swedish friend, being declared insane would allow the crown to keep him locked up forever, whereas once he serves his time they can't stop him getting out (although what Viking is saying seems to contradict that).
He got Storage, that means he only gets out when the parole board lets him out. They can keep him in forever.
Unlike life in prison which would mean he'd get out in 2032. The problem with insanity is that it he would get released on his shrink's say so tomorrow.
Quote from: The Brain on August 24, 2012, 05:48:33 AM
In Sweden he would have gotten life.
In Sweden, killing 70 people is not as bad as a she-changed-her-mind-afterward rape accusation. Breivik would have to flee to Ecuador.
Quote from: Viking on August 24, 2012, 07:15:40 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 24, 2012, 05:13:26 AM
Quote from: Viking on August 24, 2012, 03:55:19 AM
Formally he gets a life sentence but that has been normalized to 21 years.
What does this mean?
When you get sentenced to a life sentence you actually get sentenced to a 21 year sentence.
Damn, I thought you people lived longer then that.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 24, 2012, 05:13:26 AM
Quote from: Viking on August 24, 2012, 03:55:19 AM
Formally he gets a life sentence but that has been normalized to 21 years.
What does this mean?
It means that he serves 21 years without parole. Then after that, every five years he can try to convince some board or other that he's not a danger to society which will result in release. He could end up on the inside until he's dead.
Quote from: Jacob on August 24, 2012, 02:50:47 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 24, 2012, 05:13:26 AM
Quote from: Viking on August 24, 2012, 03:55:19 AM
Formally he gets a life sentence but that has been normalized to 21 years.
What does this mean?
It means that he serves 21 years without parole. Then after that, every five years he can try to convince some board or other that he's not a danger to society which will result in release. He could end up on the inside until he's dead.
Why not life with no chance of parole? Or does that sentence not exist in Scandiweenia?
Quote from: Jacob on August 24, 2012, 02:50:47 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 24, 2012, 05:13:26 AM
Quote from: Viking on August 24, 2012, 03:55:19 AM
Formally he gets a life sentence but that has been normalized to 21 years.
What does this mean?
It means that he serves 21 years without parole. Then after that, every five years he can try to convince some board or other that he's not a danger to society which will result in release. He could end up on the inside until he's dead.
Eh, no...
You are mixing up stuff here.
Breivik has NOT been sentenced to prison, he has been sentenced to storage. Note the word, storage. It is not a punishment. He is being removed from society for societies sake. This is not about attempting to reform him he cannot in the words of every "reformed criminal" pay his debt to society.
Just to elaborate on the lexicon, and when I first learned the meaning of norwegian prison words I bust a vein.
Life - the longest peacetime sentence a norwegian court can give, it is normalized to 21 years so a life sentence for a 20 year old and a 50 year old are not substantively different.
Year - a norwegian prison year is 8 months. Yes, norwegian prisoners get vacation days. And, willy mays style, they get released for weekend visits to family and often for christmas.
Prison - regular prison as you know it in the rest of the world. Prisoners are eligible for parole after 2/3 of their sentenced has been served (14 prison years for a life sentence, approx 10 real years), with good behavior parole is always granted.
Storage - a sentence which includes a regular prison sentence but also requires a parole hearing to be released. This is a relatively new innovation for norwegian justice and nobody sentenced to storage has yet been released. The english language equivalent is life with eligability for parole after 21 years. Though technically the state has to petition for parole being denied to the best of my knowledge this petition has never been refused and the state has never declined to make such a petition.
Breivik has been sentenced to storage. He can petition for release after 14 prison years and he will be released after 21 prison years unless the state petitions to keep him in. Norwegian government being the incestious little petry dish that it is this boils down to him being held at the justice minister's leasure.
Quote from: Viking on August 24, 2012, 03:08:35 PM
Year - a norwegian prison year is 8 months. Yes, norwegian prisoners get vacation days. And, willy mays style, they get released for weekend visits to family and often for christmas.
:lol: :pinch:
SAY HEY
Quote from: Viking on August 24, 2012, 03:08:35 PMEh, no...
I appreciate you breaking it down further, but I don't see anything you said that contradicted what I said; you only expanded it.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 24, 2012, 01:20:38 PM
Quote from: Viking on August 24, 2012, 07:15:40 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 24, 2012, 05:13:26 AM
Quote from: Viking on August 24, 2012, 03:55:19 AM
Formally he gets a life sentence but that has been normalized to 21 years.
What does this mean?
When you get sentenced to a life sentence you actually get sentenced to a 21 year sentence.
Damn, I thought you people lived longer then that.
:lol: It's a dog life in Norwegia.
Quote from: Jacob on August 24, 2012, 03:14:36 PM
Quote from: Viking on August 24, 2012, 03:08:35 PMEh, no...
I appreciate you breaking it down further, but I don't see anything you said that contradicted what I said; you only expanded it.
You were not wrong you just answered a question about norwegian "life" imprisonment with the answer to a question about what "storage" was.
Quote from: derspiess on August 24, 2012, 03:12:22 PM
Quote from: Viking on August 24, 2012, 03:08:35 PM
Year - a norwegian prison year is 8 months. Yes, norwegian prisoners get vacation days. And, willy mays style, they get released for weekend visits to family and often for christmas.
:lol: :pinch:
SAY HEY
Time has some good photos of a Norwegian prison. http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,00.html Pretty nice.
Quote from: Viking on August 24, 2012, 03:08:35 PM
And, willy mays style, they get released for weekend visits to family and often for christmas.
That's awesome.
"Cowboy just like Outlaw Yosey Vales, jes?"
I've never tried Willie Mays-style, btw. Does it involve "over the shoulder" somehow?
I see where I fucked up.
Willie Horton, not Willie Mays
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io9KMSSEZ0Y
:lol: I had no idea what Willie Mays style was.
See, in Scandiweenia it's often a good idea to commit a serious crime just to improve your standard of living.
Quote from: Solmyr on August 24, 2012, 04:24:39 PM
See, in Scandiweenia it's often a good idea to commit a serious crime just to improve your standard of living.
I don't think what you saw in those pictures represents an increase in standard of living for most Norwegians.
Quote from: Solmyr on August 24, 2012, 04:24:39 PM
See, in Scandiweenia it's often a good idea to commit a serious crime just to improve your standard of living.
This is why Norway is such a crime ridden society.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 24, 2012, 03:38:03 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 24, 2012, 03:12:22 PM
Quote from: Viking on August 24, 2012, 03:08:35 PM
Year - a norwegian prison year is 8 months. Yes, norwegian prisoners get vacation days. And, willy mays style, they get released for weekend visits to family and often for christmas.
:lol: :pinch:
SAY HEY
Time has some good photos of a Norwegian prison. http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,00.html Pretty nice.
Yeah, for the majority of inmates it's probably a good thing; might help then change their ways without brutalising them further and engendering or worsening mental illnesses.
Though, probably for the hardened criminal it won't much change their way of life back in the outside world.
Of course he probably doesn't want to get out in 21 years time. He beleives by then Norway will be part of one big Eurabia and the Moslem warlords will have him stoned to death by Sharia court anyways.
Quote from: alfred russel on August 24, 2012, 05:21:47 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on August 24, 2012, 04:24:39 PM
See, in Scandiweenia it's often a good idea to commit a serious crime just to improve your standard of living.
This is why Norway is such a crime ridden society.
No that is why almost all our criminals are immigrants (note I am an immigrant, but not criminal) and criminals come from all over the eastern bloc to commit crimes here and don't fear conviction because sentences are lenient, prison is lenient and politicians regularly kick foreign prisoners back to their home countries.
Strangely enough Lithuania et.al. repeatedly offer to take our lithuanian prisoners and stick them in lithuanian prisons for the duration of the sentence but we can't.. human rights and what not. That is why Mullah Krekar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullah_Krekar) freely walks our streets cuz Iraq would almost certainly torture him and probably execute him if we sent him to his deserved fate.
Quote from: Jacob on August 24, 2012, 05:13:06 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on August 24, 2012, 04:24:39 PM
See, in Scandiweenia it's often a good idea to commit a serious crime just to improve your standard of living.
I don't think what you saw in those pictures represents an increase in standard of living for most Norwegians.
It's nicer then my dorm was in college.
Yeah, in Finland the living conditions of prisoners are better than of most students (or most retirees, for that matter). And you are free to get a degree while serving a sentence.
Quote from: Solmyr on August 25, 2012, 08:10:30 AM
And you are free to get a degree while serving a sentence.
I don't see the problem with this.
I wonder what you can get with a BA and felony conviction.
Quote from: Viking on August 24, 2012, 03:08:35 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 24, 2012, 02:50:47 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 24, 2012, 05:13:26 AM
Quote from: Viking on August 24, 2012, 03:55:19 AM
Formally he gets a life sentence but that has been normalized to 21 years.
What does this mean?
It means that he serves 21 years without parole. Then after that, every five years he can try to convince some board or other that he's not a danger to society which will result in release. He could end up on the inside until he's dead.
Eh, no...
You are mixing up stuff here.
Breivik has NOT been sentenced to prison, he has been sentenced to storage. Note the word, storage. It is not a punishment. He is being removed from society for societies sake. This is not about attempting to reform him he cannot in the words of every "reformed criminal" pay his debt to society.
Just to elaborate on the lexicon, and when I first learned the meaning of norwegian prison words I bust a vein.
Life - the longest peacetime sentence a norwegian court can give, it is normalized to 21 years so a life sentence for a 20 year old and a 50 year old are not substantively different.
Year - a norwegian prison year is 8 months. Yes, norwegian prisoners get vacation days. And, willy mays style, they get released for weekend visits to family and often for christmas.
Prison - regular prison as you know it in the rest of the world. Prisoners are eligible for parole after 2/3 of their sentenced has been served (14 prison years for a life sentence, approx 10 real years), with good behavior parole is always granted.
Storage - a sentence which includes a regular prison sentence but also requires a parole hearing to be released. This is a relatively new innovation for norwegian justice and nobody sentenced to storage has yet been released. The english language equivalent is life with eligability for parole after 21 years. Though technically the state has to petition for parole being denied to the best of my knowledge this petition has never been refused and the state has never declined to make such a petition.
Breivik has been sentenced to storage. He can petition for release after 14 prison years and he will be released after 21 prison years unless the state petitions to keep him in. Norwegian government being the incestious little petry dish that it is this boils down to him being held at the justice minister's leasure.
Wow, I gotta say your system is very weird. It's both very humane but also very illiberal (the indefinite storage for example). It sounds like something invented by benevolent aliens.
Quote from: Razgovory on August 25, 2012, 07:31:40 PM
I wonder what you can get with a BA and felony conviction.
You mean in terms of employment? In Europe, your prospective employer cannot ask for (or check) your criminal record, unless the job is of the kind that expressly (by law) calls for a clean record, such as being a judge. There are also some jobs which cannot be performed by someone who has a specific, related type of crime on their record (e.g. someone guilty of credit fraud cannot work as a banker).
Furthermore, once you serve the time (and usually after a certain period thereafter), your criminal record is purged (unless you commit another crime), which means that for all purposes you are treated as if you were never convicted.
Wouldn't it be better to rehabilitate the criminals?
Your description does not apply to all European countries, Marti.
Quote from: Zanza on August 26, 2012, 02:11:34 AM
Your description does not apply to all European countries, Marti.
In which part?
In this part of Europe, your prospective employer can ask for your criminal record regardless of the job in question. Even landlords occasionally ask for it, which is legal.
Some crimes, e.g. Breivik's, would also never be purged from the criminal record.
Quote from: Zanza on August 26, 2012, 02:46:44 AM
In this part of Europe, your prospective employer can ask for your criminal record regardless of the job in question. Even landlords occasionally ask for it, which is legal.
Some crimes, e.g. Breivik's, would also never be purged from the criminal record.
Yeah it's the same here in Denmark.
Quote from: Martinus on August 26, 2012, 01:52:31 AM
Wow, I gotta say your system is very weird. It's both very humane but also very illiberal (the indefinite storage for example). It sounds like something invented by benevolent aliens.
I'm gonna use that, every time I discuss norwegian politics with norwegians.
Quote from: Martinus on August 26, 2012, 01:52:31 AM
Wow, I gotta say your system is very weird. It's both very humane but also very illiberal (the indefinite storage for example). It sounds like something invented by benevolent aliensScandinavians.
FYP.
Quote from: Martinus on August 26, 2012, 01:57:44 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 25, 2012, 07:31:40 PM
I wonder what you can get with a BA and felony conviction.
You mean in terms of employment? In Europe, your prospective employer cannot ask for (or check) your criminal record, unless the job is of the kind that expressly (by law) calls for a clean record, such as being a judge. There are also some jobs which cannot be performed by someone who has a specific, related type of crime on their record (e.g. someone guilty of credit fraud cannot work as a banker).
Furthermore, once you serve the time (and usually after a certain period thereafter), your criminal record is purged (unless you commit another crime), which means that for all purposes you are treated as if you were never convicted.
If you're an infamous criminal, though, prospective employers aren't going to have to ask.