Just to be clear, I am not talking about health insurance (i.e. insurance which covers medical costs of treatment), or life insurance (i.e. insurance paid to your family if you die), but insurance that provides for a certain lump sum being paid to you if you get one of the critical illnesses (e.g. cancer, heart disease, MS, internal organ failure, blindness etc.).
I am considering getting one but was wondering how popular it is and what to look out for (a lot of the ones I reviewed have some broad exemptions, e.g. "anything caused by radiation or poison" (not just as a result of a catastrophe) and the like).
I don't think so.
One can only have so many insurances.
Also you put away 25% of your income, are you really telling me that isn't enough to cover your expense if you catch cancer?
I used to when I was self-employed. They're notoriously difficult to get payouts from, though. You pretty much have to have proof of screening for pre-existing conditions.
No.
Quote from: Martinus on August 22, 2012, 07:54:03 AM
I am considering getting one but was wondering how popular it is and what to look out for (a lot of the ones I reviewed have some broad exemptions, e.g. "anything caused by radiation or poison" (not just as a result of a catastrophe) and the like).
I got 2. I don't have any invalidity insurance (too many speeding tickets for one company, too fat for the other one), so I compensate with these 2.
I should have enough money to be treated in the US if it comes to that.
What you should look for is what is covers and what it doesn't cover. That's the first part. They don't cover 100% of your risk, you have to assume some yourself. You have to be comfortable with the level of risks you assume.
Second, watch for the diagnostic they ask. Some ask diagnostic by one doctor, others will require 2-3 doctors to validate your illness and will ask for more tests of their own.
Third, watch the extras. Mine comes with a hotline where I can get medical information on my disease, and assistance to find the best doctors in their field to cure me.
Fourth: price. Yeah, it comes last. Determine what you need and what level of risk you agree to take, than look at the price, and weight if it's worth it. Sometimes, a good invalidity insurance can be better. Here, in Quebec, with our shitty health care system, I'd prefer to have the opportunity to get treated abroad if I have cancer rather than wait to die. But it's always up to you.
P.S. I forgot the most important part, reading Brazen... You got to make sure they test you before they give you the insurance, so as to avoid any claim of pre-existing condition.
It's called long-term disability insurance, and yes I have it.
Quote from: Barrister on August 22, 2012, 09:19:01 AM
It's called long-term disability insurance, and yes I have it.
No, it's something different, but similar. LTDI is about you being an invalid/unable to work (and more often has a periodical payment rather than a lump sum paid to you).
i don't know if a hypocondriac should get this type of insurance. Best case you read about all the different risks being insured and you freak out about what new diseases you have, worst case* you over estimate your risk and pay for insurance you don't need. Basic disability should be good enough for ya. does poland have socialized medicine?
* well, you know, worst case besides actually getting the disease you've insured yourself against :lol:
We have socialized medicine. That's why I decided to get the insurance. :P
I don't really need a special pension scheme because any time up to 2 years before my retirement age I can transfer to be a state attorney or a judge and after two years I get a state-guaranteed pension at a rather survivable level (about $3000 per month), so I'm mostly worried about getting some serious illness that renders me incapable.
No but I will eventually. I am currently gambling I do not have a serious debilitating condition before I graduate.
Quote from: Martinus on August 22, 2012, 10:01:24 AM
We have socialized medicine. That's why I decided to get the insurance. :P
I thought you Poles were freedom loving New Europe types not old encrusted commie Old Europe Dinosaurs. Donald Rumsfeld fails me again.
The closest thing I can recall is Ronald Reagan's Catastrophic Health Care Act of 1988--which was supposed to be a bulwark against serious illnesses that surpassed basic Medicare coverage for the elderly--was repealed by Congress less than 2 years later, due to a combination of: 1) public bitching about the elderly having too many benefits to begin with, and 2) the elderly bitching about how they shouldn't pay any additional premiums for coverage.
Quote from: Valmy on August 22, 2012, 10:08:49 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 22, 2012, 10:01:24 AM
We have socialized medicine. That's why I decided to get the insurance. :P
I thought you Poles were freedom loving New Europe types not old encrusted commie Old Europe Dinosaurs. Donald Rumsfeld fails me again.
Well, we have the system that was inherited after the communism era and now sorta pewters out, as there is not enough money to prop it up.
Besides, I probably wouldn't be as worried if I did not have a mortgage and didn't need at least PLN 20,000 per month to meet my expenses - so I need a bit of a cushion if due to health reasons I suddenly need to downgrade.
Quote from: Martinus on August 22, 2012, 09:24:09 AM
LTDI is about you being an invalid/unable to work (and more often has a periodical payment rather than a lump sum paid to you).
I have that. Never heard about the other kind of insurance you talk about. What's the point? Either I am acutely sick and then the health insurance pays or I am chronically sick and can't work anymore and then my long-term disability insurance pays. It wouldn't fully replace my current income, but it would allow me to survive on it. I guess that's the point of a disaster insurance.
Quote from: Martinus on August 22, 2012, 10:23:09 AM
Besides, I probably wouldn't be as worried if I did not have a mortgage and didn't need at least PLN 20,000 per month to meet my expenses - so I need a bit of a cushion if due to health reasons I suddenly need to downgrade.
Getting insurance that will guarantee you such an expensive lifestyle will have very high premiums though.
Please read what I wrote. :)
I did.
is most of that 6 grand (had to convert to something i know :D ) going to your mortgage, or is a good chunk going to other? If it's other, then in case of necessity you can cut down on the apple addiction of boyfriend tax :P
I mean if you're worried about you're mortgage you'd be better off funneling what you'd pay as insurance into paying off your mortgage (assuming poland allows fast repayments)
Quote from: Barrister on August 22, 2012, 09:19:01 AM
It's called long-term disability insurance, and yes I have it.
cricital illness will pay when you get sick for a number of diseases (say, in my case, they list 21 diseases), no matter if your work or not, no matter if you're disabled or not, no matter your age. It's one lumpsum payment.
so it's like a Hep C lottery?
Quote from: Zanza on August 22, 2012, 10:37:25 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 22, 2012, 09:24:09 AM
LTDI is about you being an invalid/unable to work (and more often has a periodical payment rather than a lump sum paid to you).
I have that. Never heard about the other kind of insurance you talk about. What's the point? Either I am acutely sick and then the health insurance pays or I am chronically sick and can't work anymore and then my long-term disability insurance pays. It wouldn't fully replace my current income, but it would allow me to survive on it. I guess that's the point of a disaster insurance.
Yeah there must be something missing in the translation regarding what Marti is talking about. If the things he mentioned are not actually disabling him from working (something short term and long term disability insurance would cover) then, I agree, what is the point of insuring against it.
I have been acutely sick and I continue to be chronically ill but I for the most part that has not impacted my ability to work. My LTD premiums are high enough. I can't imagine what it would cost for the sort of thing Marti is talking about.
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 22, 2012, 11:32:00 AM
Quote from: Zanza on August 22, 2012, 10:37:25 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 22, 2012, 09:24:09 AM
LTDI is about you being an invalid/unable to work (and more often has a periodical payment rather than a lump sum paid to you).
I have that. Never heard about the other kind of insurance you talk about. What's the point? Either I am acutely sick and then the health insurance pays or I am chronically sick and can't work anymore and then my long-term disability insurance pays. It wouldn't fully replace my current income, but it would allow me to survive on it. I guess that's the point of a disaster insurance.
Yeah there must be something missing in the translation regarding what Marti is talking about. If the things he mentioned are not actually disabling him from working (something short term and long term disability insurance would cover) then, I agree, what is the point of insuring against it.
I have been acutely sick and I continue to be chronically ill but I for the most part that has not impacted my ability to work. My LTD premiums are high enough. I can't imagine what it would cost for the sort of thing Marti is talking about.
This is what Marti is talking about : http://www.desjardins.com/en/entreprises/solutions/assurances/assurances-vie-sante-invalidite/maladies-graves/protection-maladies-graves-vision.jsp
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 22, 2012, 11:33:44 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 22, 2012, 11:32:00 AM
Quote from: Zanza on August 22, 2012, 10:37:25 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 22, 2012, 09:24:09 AM
LTDI is about you being an invalid/unable to work (and more often has a periodical payment rather than a lump sum paid to you).
I have that. Never heard about the other kind of insurance you talk about. What's the point? Either I am acutely sick and then the health insurance pays or I am chronically sick and can't work anymore and then my long-term disability insurance pays. It wouldn't fully replace my current income, but it would allow me to survive on it. I guess that's the point of a disaster insurance.
Yeah there must be something missing in the translation regarding what Marti is talking about. If the things he mentioned are not actually disabling him from working (something short term and long term disability insurance would cover) then, I agree, what is the point of insuring against it.
I have been acutely sick and I continue to be chronically ill but I for the most part that has not impacted my ability to work. My LTD premiums are high enough. I can't imagine what it would cost for the sort of thing Marti is talking about.
This is what Marti is talking about : http://www.desjardins.com/en/entreprises/solutions/assurances/assurances-vie-sante-invalidite/maladies-graves/protection-maladies-graves-vision.jsp
"•E. coli infection (hamburger disease)"
McDonalds is going to be pissed :P
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 22, 2012, 11:37:22 AM
Quote from: HVC on August 22, 2012, 11:24:57 AM
so it's like a Hep C lottery?
:lol:
i don't get the point of the insurance, really. i guess insurance companies needed a new revenue stream. i blame dguller
Quote from: HVC on August 22, 2012, 11:38:53 AM
i don't get the point of the insurance, really.
The only thing I can think of is it's more cut and dried than disability. You got cancer? Boom, here's your dough.
Quote from: Martinus on August 22, 2012, 10:52:31 AM
Please read what I wrote. :)
Why? It's just another one of your bullshit passive-aggressive forum hand grenades.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 22, 2012, 11:42:32 AM
Quote from: HVC on August 22, 2012, 11:38:53 AM
i don't get the point of the insurance, really.
The only thing I can think of is it's more cut and dried than disability. You got cancer? Boom, here's your dough.
Well there is that. But with disability insurance you get covered for the whole period of disability. This is a one shot payment that may or may not be adequate. So the lottery analogy works in a number of ways.
Quote from: HVC on August 22, 2012, 11:04:30 AM
is most of that 6 grand (had to convert to something i know :D ) going to your mortgage, or is a good chunk going to other? If it's other, then in case of necessity you can cut down on the apple addiction of boyfriend tax :P
Half of it is mortgage.
What I meant is that if something happens, I want a lump sum to, say, manage the "controlled fall" where I sell my bigger mortgaged flat and cut the costs, rather than having to immediately cut into my savings - I am not talking about getting enough cash to live on the same level of expense until the end of my life.
And the kind of premium I have been looking at is around $150 per month so nothing huge and would definitely not make a difference if I funnelled it into my mortgage.
Quote from: HVC on August 22, 2012, 11:24:57 AM
so it's like a Hep C lottery?
Yes, essentially. :D
Only that they do not cover hep C and only cover HIV if it is through blood transfussion so I'm fucked either way.
And that's not so different, philosophically speaking, than life insurance, only that instead of your family getting a paycheck on your death you get one on the death of your liver.
Quote from: Martinus on August 22, 2012, 12:04:48 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 22, 2012, 11:24:57 AM
so it's like a Hep C lottery?
Yes, essentially. :D
Only that they do not cover hep C and only cover HIV if it is through blood transfussion so I'm fucked either way.
get regular blood transfusions. Trick the system!
and 150 a month isn't bad, considering your current expenses and pay. if it buys you peace of mind then that's a added bonus.
Quote from: HVC on August 22, 2012, 11:38:53 AM
i don't get the point of the insurance, really. i guess insurance companies needed a new revenue stream. i blame dguller
weak sociliast medicine in Europe and Canada & overinflated costs of health care in the US.
#1: Presumably, you want to live. You don't want to die waiting for surgery, chimiotherapy. Not everybody has 25-30k$ lying in their bank account. This type of insurance gives you 100-200k$ (and more) so you can circumvent the waiting lists and go where you'll be treated. If you don't live in a big city, you have to relocate for your treatment or pay expensive medications that most certainly won't be covered by the public insurance, so you need cash to pay for this EPO at 600$ a dose twice a week. If you already have private insurance, you're probably already covered though, so they lose some validity.
#2: Insurance don't pay for everything, and never pay for 100% of the costs (franchise). If they set the franchise at 20% and it costs you 100 000$, having some money to pay the franchise is nice. Also, it may be a way to avoid being shipped to India for your heart surgery.
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 22, 2012, 11:59:26 AM
Well there is that. But with disability insurance you get covered for the whole period of disability. This is a one shot payment that may or may not be adequate. So the lottery analogy works in a number of ways.
you may not have disability insurance. Lots of people don't have these. And they are tied to your work, so if you lose your job or you retire, you get 0 benefits. Yet, you may have costs to incur.
There are no waiting lists for life threating treatments here and I've never heard about a "franchise" system. Our public health insurance pays 100% of expensive stuff. You only have to pay for cheap day-to-day stuff yourself. So based on that, I still don't see the point of this kind of insurance. I find Marty's argument regarding having to pay a mortgage more compelling.
Quote from: viper37 on August 22, 2012, 01:14:45 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 22, 2012, 11:59:26 AM
Well there is that. But with disability insurance you get covered for the whole period of disability. This is a one shot payment that may or may not be adequate. So the lottery analogy works in a number of ways.
you may not have disability insurance. Lots of people don't have these. And they are tied to your work, so if you lose your job or you retire, you get 0 benefits. Yet, you may have costs to incur.
None of that explains why Marti might do it.
I will never buy this kind of insurance.
I am an office worker. I basically do not require any physical labour, unlike many jobs out there. And my job isn't customer-facing. The chance of me not being able to work due to an illness is lower than average. So if I buy the insurance, I will be subsidising other folks.
There is free and universal health care in HK. If I have a problem, I can attempt to fix it.
The payout isn't much, and is notoriously difficult to get.
Quote from: Monoriu on August 22, 2012, 09:24:29 PM
I will never buy this kind of insurance.
I am an office worker. I basically do not require any physical labour, unlike many jobs out there. And my job isn't customer-facing. The chance of me not being able to work due to an illness is lower than average. So if I buy the insurance, I will be subsidising other folks.
At least over here, long-term disability insurance obviously takes into consideration what kind of job you have. So you would get the standard rate for office workers, not the one shared with manual laborers.
If criticism was an illness, Marty wouldn't be able to afford the premiums.
Quote from: Zanza on August 23, 2012, 09:21:05 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on August 22, 2012, 09:24:29 PM
I will never buy this kind of insurance.
I am an office worker. I basically do not require any physical labour, unlike many jobs out there. And my job isn't customer-facing. The chance of me not being able to work due to an illness is lower than average. So if I buy the insurance, I will be subsidising other folks.
At least over here, long-term disability insurance obviously takes into consideration what kind of job you have. So you would get the standard rate for office workers, not the one shared with manual laborers.
Over here, critical illness insurance usually isn't sold separately. It is usually bundled with life insurance, which is reasonably popular. My wife and I pledged to each other that we will never buy life insurance.
Quote from: Monoriu on August 23, 2012, 10:12:38 AM
Quote from: Zanza on August 23, 2012, 09:21:05 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on August 22, 2012, 09:24:29 PM
I will never buy this kind of insurance.
I am an office worker. I basically do not require any physical labour, unlike many jobs out there. And my job isn't customer-facing. The chance of me not being able to work due to an illness is lower than average. So if I buy the insurance, I will be subsidising other folks.
At least over here, long-term disability insurance obviously takes into consideration what kind of job you have. So you would get the standard rate for office workers, not the one shared with manual laborers.
Over here, critical illness insurance usually isn't sold separately. It is usually bundled with life insurance, which is reasonably popular. My wife and I pledged to each other that we will never buy life insurance.
I admire your courage.
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 23, 2012, 10:33:46 AM
I admire your courage.
This isn't courage. It is a sign of love. :wub:
No, it's courage.
When you croak on that treadmill of yours. She'll be left with only savings & a mortgage she can't afford.
Courage.
She has a job. Term life insurance only makes sense if there are people dependent on your future earnings.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 23, 2012, 12:39:22 PM
She has a job. Term life insurance only makes sense if there are people dependent on your future earnings.
How much life insurance should a person have, anyways?
I've got insurance for 5x my annual salary through work, a wife that works (but earns half my salary), and of course two small kids. Is that enough?
No clue.
Was throwing it to the floor since the topic had been raised.
enough to pay off your mortgage and a good chunk of your kids education (hard to forcast) seems like an ok number, but really i have no idea.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 23, 2012, 12:39:22 PM
She has a job. Term life insurance only makes sense if there are people dependent on your future earnings.
Yes, his wife?
Quote from: Barrister on August 23, 2012, 12:47:10 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 23, 2012, 12:39:22 PM
She has a job. Term life insurance only makes sense if there are people dependent on your future earnings.
How much life insurance should a person have, anyways?
I've got insurance for 5x my annual salary through work, a wife that works (but earns half my salary), and of course two small kids. Is that enough?
Seems right.
I fear my family is fucked. I have 1 year salary + mortgage original loan.
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 22, 2012, 05:38:54 PM
None of that explains why Marti might do it.
maybe he feels unsecure wihtout insurance, maybe he's planning on getting treatments in France or Germany if he get AIDS, everyone has good reasons to insure themselves, or to not insure themselves. In my case, it was justified. In other cases, it might not be.
Quote from: Barrister on August 23, 2012, 12:47:10 PM
How much life insurance should a person have, anyways?
I've got insurance for 5x my annual salary through work, a wife that works (but earns half my salary), and of course two small kids. Is that enough?
there's no fixed rate for that.
What you need to cover is:
- Any lingering debts (mortgage, credit cards, any kind of loans for cars, furnitures or others, etc) you may have. Say, if you tend to buy 10 000$ a month with your credit card, you need to cover this for the people you leave behind. You car may be paid before you die, but you will probably by a new one, so, you got to considere it.
- Taxes on all your investment and property. I don't think any canadian province taxes your main estate, so usually, it's your secondary homes, real estate, pension fund, business investements, etc. Usually, it's your... whatever the canadian equivalent of 401k that is taxable, unless transferred to your spouse. And before your heir can touch it, they need to pay provincial and federal taxes on it, as if it was taxable income this year for you. So you need some cash to pay for that.
- Any income tax left unpaid
- Funeral fees. These ain't cheap. It can be a real burden for your heirs.
- Once the basics are covered, the rest is extra: what do you want to leave for your spouse, your kids, your family, etc. Take inflation into account.
- When the amount needed is established, substract from this any life insurance you may already have.
Quote from: HVC on August 23, 2012, 01:22:59 PM
enough to pay off your mortgage and a good chunk of your kids education (hard to forcast) seems like an ok number, but really i have no idea.
Yeah that was my basic rule of thumb but as the mortgage dwindles into nothingness the life insurance I bought looks more and more like it will just send Mrs. CC on terrific vacations. Which I suppose isnt a bad thing.
God knows she will deserve them.
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 23, 2012, 02:44:17 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 23, 2012, 01:22:59 PM
enough to pay off your mortgage and a good chunk of your kids education (hard to forcast) seems like an ok number, but really i have no idea.
Yeah that was my basic rule of thumb but as the mortgage dwindles into nothingness the life insurance I bought looks more and more like it will just send Mrs. CC on terrific vacations. Which I suppose isnt a bad thing.
be careful, eventually you'll hit teh tipping point where there's more benefit to a dead husband over a living one :lol:
Quote from: Monoriu on August 23, 2012, 10:12:38 AM
Quote from: Zanza on August 23, 2012, 09:21:05 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on August 22, 2012, 09:24:29 PM
I will never buy this kind of insurance.
I am an office worker. I basically do not require any physical labour, unlike many jobs out there. And my job isn't customer-facing. The chance of me not being able to work due to an illness is lower than average. So if I buy the insurance, I will be subsidising other folks.
At least over here, long-term disability insurance obviously takes into consideration what kind of job you have. So you would get the standard rate for office workers, not the one shared with manual laborers.
Over here, critical illness insurance usually isn't sold separately.
It's been pointed out before in this thread, but critical illness insurance and long-term disability insurance aren't the same thing.
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 23, 2012, 11:06:04 AM
No, it's courage.
When you croak on that treadmill of yours. She'll be left with only savings & a mortgage she can't afford.
Courage.
Are you sure about that :ph34r:
Quote from: Barrister on August 23, 2012, 12:47:10 PM
How much life insurance should a person have, anyways?
I've got insurance for 5x my annual salary through work, a wife that works (but earns half my salary), and of course two small kids. Is that enough?
None here. Never have, never will. If I die, my wife will face the full financial consequences by herself. I'll say the same even if I have a kid.