http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/out-of-town-homeless-families-flooding-new-york-city-shelters-article-1.1125381?localLinksEnabled=false
QuoteIt's not just tourists and wanna-be starlets flocking to New York these days.
The city has also become a popular new travel destination for the homeless — and taxpayers are now paying to send them back where they came from.
"People see New York as a land of opportunity, a place that's welcoming," said Homeless Services Commissioner Seth Diamond, noting that the city's unique "right to shelter" law affords housing to everyone.
The number of out-of-town families flooding city shelters has jumped by 48% over the past four years, from a total of 1,390 in 2008 to 2,053 in 2011, records show.
More than 40 new families arrive every week from Puerto Rico, Florida and elsewhere — and head straight to packed intake centers where they wait to be placed in shelters.
"It used to be very rare where we'd see people coming directly from the airport," said Vida Chavez-Downes, who heads the city's Bronx intake facility. "But now I see a consistent amount of those people. For some reason, people feel it's the only way."
That includes Naika Rolon, 27, who fled Puerto Rico last winter with three young children to get away from an abusive husband.
"My husband owed people money," she said. "They were coming to our house after he left us. I was afraid."
Rolon heard from a friend about the city's guaranteed shelter policy — practically the only one of its kind in the country — and made her way to a shelter in the Bronx.
Housing a single homeless family costs about $3,000 a month on average — $36,000 annually — and out-of-towners have helped swell the shelter population to an all-time high of 43,040. The budget has grown to $870 million.
In an effort to reign in those costs, the Bloomberg administration has cranked up efforts to ship the carpetbaggers back to where they came from.
Numbers obtained through the Freedom of Information Law show that taxpayers have picked up the one-way fare to send 2,654 singles and families to 24 states and five continents since 2007 — at a cost of roughly $650,000 a year.
That's a small part of the department's overall budget, city officials say, but the numbers seem to be growing — from 268 people exported in 2010 to 459 people last year.
"It's common-sense public policy," said Patrick Markee, senior policy analyst at the Coalition for the Homeless. "Instead of keeping them at a huge expense in our shelter system, why not pay for their transportation to friends and relatives in another state who have someplace for them to stay and maybe a job?"
The city uses a Manhattan-based travel agency, Protravel, to buy the one-way tickets, which most often are for Puerto Rico, Florida, Georgia and the Carolinas, records show.
"I'm excited about leaving," said Vanessa Cruz, 24, who with her 4-year-old son, Izayah, is accepting a one-way ticket to Seattle after two years in a Brooklyn shelter. "I feel like I'll have a better opportunity out there."
Interesting all around. It's like come here, we get you on your feet and then ship you elsewhere. :D
Give me your tired, your poor/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free
Would be funny if those places just shipped them right back.
At one point in time Alberta would offer to give homeless people a one-way ticket to BC. BC was not amused.
Quote from: Barrister on July 31, 2012, 11:48:16 AM
At one point in time Alberta would offer to give homeless people a one-way ticket to BC. BC was not amused.
That's what some midwest towns did to ship their homeless to San Francisco. Don't remember what SF's reaction was.
Quote from: derspiess on July 31, 2012, 11:53:35 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 31, 2012, 11:48:16 AM
At one point in time Alberta would offer to give homeless people a one-way ticket to BC. BC was not amused.
That's what some midwest towns did to ship their homeless to San Francisco. Don't remember what SF's reaction was.
Doubt they could have complained considering that SF did something similar with illegal aliens to other cities. Cause a big stir when one of them killed someone in San Diego or something like that.
German welfare was paid for by state budgets (at least in pre-Hartz-IV days). If a needy person moved from one state to another, the new home state got to bill the previous state for a year (or two?).
The flip side - when I worked in Yukon we'd periodically get calls - so and so is in custody in such and such a place (usually Vancouver), and wanted to know if we wanted to extend our warrant to come and pick them up.
More often than not our answer was "no, we really don't want this person back up here".
In the lead up to the Olympics, when we'd get these calls, BC would offer to ship the person up here at their expense - there own version of trying to ship people out of town.
Quote from: derspiess on July 31, 2012, 11:53:35 AM
That's what some midwest towns did to ship their homeless to San Francisco. Don't remember what SF's reaction was.
There did seem to be alot of homeless people in SF. I could not help but think they picked a crap city to be homeless in. Not only is it cold 365 days a year but the cost of living is astronomical.
Quote from: Valmy on July 31, 2012, 02:09:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 31, 2012, 11:53:35 AM
That's what some midwest towns did to ship their homeless to San Francisco. Don't remember what SF's reaction was.
There did seem to be alot of homeless people in SF. I could not help but think they picked a crap city to be homeless in. Not only is it cold 365 days a year but the cost of living is astronomical.
:huh:
SF is a pretty good city to be in year round. Very little temperature fluctuation so if you have some jeans and a sweatshirt, you're mostly golden barring the occasional rainy day.
Quote from: Valmy on July 31, 2012, 02:09:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 31, 2012, 11:53:35 AM
That's what some midwest towns did to ship their homeless to San Francisco. Don't remember what SF's reaction was.
There did seem to be alot of homeless people in SF. I could not help but think they picked a crap city to be homeless in. Not only is it cold 365 days a year but the cost of living is astronomical.
You don't freeze to death in the middle of winter, and more of a left-wing political culture probably means more handouts.
I was shocked when I met the Vancouver crew a few years back and Jacob gave some money to a panhandler. Nobody I know does that. It just encourages them (and, by the way, some of them make pretty good coin panhandling. Ah the things you learn doing docket court...)
Quote from: Barrister on July 31, 2012, 02:16:26 PM
You don't freeze to death in the middle of winter, and more of a left-wing political culture probably means more handouts.
:yes:
/assistance in the forms of housing and advocacy groups. New construction was going up all the time for the homeless.
If I was being shipped out, I'd prefer Portland, OR. They have a soft touch on the housing challenged and I can eat shitty donuts from Voodoo donuts that people have tossed in the nearest dumpster.
Quote from: Barrister on July 31, 2012, 02:16:26 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 31, 2012, 02:09:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 31, 2012, 11:53:35 AM
That's what some midwest towns did to ship their homeless to San Francisco. Don't remember what SF's reaction was.
There did seem to be alot of homeless people in SF. I could not help but think they picked a crap city to be homeless in. Not only is it cold 365 days a year but the cost of living is astronomical.
You don't freeze to death in the middle of winter, and more of a left-wing political culture probably means more handouts.
I was shocked when I met the Vancouver crew a few years back and Jacob gave some money to a panhandler. Nobody I know does that. It just encourages them (and, by the way, some of them make pretty good coin panhandling. Ah the things you learn doing docket court...)
How can they make good coin, if no-one gives them handouts? :hmm:
There are people Beeb doesn't know? :hmm:
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 31, 2012, 03:06:12 PM
If I was being shipped out, I'd prefer Portland, OR. They have a soft touch on the housing challenged and I can eat shitty donuts from Voodoo donuts that people have tossed in the nearest dumpster.
I don't see how any of that puts Portland over SF. Big plus would be that Portland is cheaper to live in but drawback is that it doesn't have as many potential job opportunities around (SF is connected rather easily to entire Bay Area)* and it rains more.
*assuming of course that one isn't aiming to be homeless forever. :D
You guys do realize, I hope, that most cost of living does not impact the homeless. :unsure:
Cost of food certainly does and that varies dramatically.
A loaf of Wonderful Bread costs about the same wherever you go.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 31, 2012, 04:18:22 PM
A loaf of Wonderful Bread costs about the same wherever you go.
Wanna bet?
Presumably they aren't buying bread as that wouldn't keep well outside. Anyway prices on a lot of items vary - for example fast food prices here in New York often are on par with what you'd pay in an airport...and cereal, I can pay 3 times less if I shop at a typical grocery store when visiting my parents over what I pay in Manhattan.
Quote from: katmai on July 31, 2012, 04:18:54 PM
Wanna bet?
Alaska could be an outlier. Hawaii too.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 31, 2012, 03:53:01 PM
There are people Beeb doesn't know? :hmm:
Where he comes from? Probably not. :D
Quote from: Malthus on July 31, 2012, 03:42:40 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 31, 2012, 02:16:26 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 31, 2012, 02:09:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 31, 2012, 11:53:35 AM
That's what some midwest towns did to ship their homeless to San Francisco. Don't remember what SF's reaction was.
There did seem to be alot of homeless people in SF. I could not help but think they picked a crap city to be homeless in. Not only is it cold 365 days a year but the cost of living is astronomical.
You don't freeze to death in the middle of winter, and more of a left-wing political culture probably means more handouts.
I was shocked when I met the Vancouver crew a few years back and Jacob gave some money to a panhandler. Nobody I know does that. It just encourages them (and, by the way, some of them make pretty good coin panhandling. Ah the things you learn doing docket court...)
How can they make good coin, if no-one gives them handouts? :hmm:
Of the last group of homeless people I was talking with last week, all three of them had jobs, which were full time ones as well.
Homelessness is a complex phenomena, that embraces a wide range of personal circumstances.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 31, 2012, 04:23:20 PM
Quote from: katmai on July 31, 2012, 04:18:54 PM
Wanna bet?
Alaska could be an outlier. Hawaii too.
It so is, things seem so cheap when back in lower 48
Quote from: mongers on July 31, 2012, 04:40:10 PM
Homelessness Life is a complex phenomena, that embraces a wide range of personal circumstances.
FYP
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 31, 2012, 03:59:49 PM
You guys do realize, I hope, that most cost of living does not impact the homeless. :unsure:
It would seem to me it would make it harder to escape homelessness. Rent in SF can be pretty steep.
Quote from: Syt on July 31, 2012, 12:04:22 PM
German welfare was paid for by state budgets (at least in pre-Hartz-IV days). If a needy person moved from one state to another, the new home state got to bill the previous state for a year (or two?).
Our solution has been to fuck the destination state right in the wallet. Hard.
Quote from: garbon on August 01, 2012, 09:59:58 AM
Quote from: mongers on July 31, 2012, 04:40:10 PM
Homelessness Life is a complex phenomena, that embraces a wide range of personal circumstances.
FYP
Nope I think you'll find my original post is indeed correct; homeless people aren't just a bunch of whino-sitting around the streets getting drunk, stoned or violent, there are all sort of homelessness situations other than the caricatures that sometimes get trotted out on this forum.
But by all means, don't let me get in way of a good Garbon 'au contraire' moment/post, you do it so well, so often, it's as if one didn't need to see you posts, just that you've posted in a thread and from the subject matter one could guess what the content of you post will be.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 31, 2012, 04:23:20 PM
Quote from: katmai on July 31, 2012, 04:18:54 PM
Wanna bet?
Alaska could be an outlier. Hawaii too.
Dude, 2 different stores in the same city will charge different prices.
Quote from: dps on August 01, 2012, 07:00:22 PM
Dude, 2 different stores in the same city will charge different prices.
Shit, now I really wish I had said "about the same" instead of "exactly the same."
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 01, 2012, 07:18:26 PM
Quote from: dps on August 01, 2012, 07:00:22 PM
Dude, 2 different stores in the same city will charge different prices.
Shit, now I really wish I had said "about the same" instead of "exactly the same."
It's not even "about the same". I've seen convenience stores charge twice as much (or even more than that) as supermarkets.
Quote from: dps on August 01, 2012, 07:20:24 PM
It's not even "about the same". I've seen convenience stores charge twice as much (or even more than that) as supermarkets.
Well sure. But I don't see how that advances the argument that basic food prices are wildly different by geography.
Batteries cost more in a convenience store, but surely no one is going to claim that battery prices vary wildly by geography.
To put it simply, Yi claims that if price of bread is the response variable, then geography offers no predictive power once all the relevant explanatory variables have been controlled for.
Not quite. That the corellation with housing cost is positive but low, and certainly not sufficient to deter a panhandler from an otherwise rich feeding ground.
Quote from: mongers on August 01, 2012, 06:32:57 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 01, 2012, 09:59:58 AM
Quote from: mongers on July 31, 2012, 04:40:10 PM
Homelessness Life is a complex phenomena, that embraces a wide range of personal circumstances.
FYP
Nope I think you'll find my original post is indeed correct; homeless people aren't just a bunch of whino-sitting around the streets getting drunk, stoned or violent, there are all sort of homelessness situations other than the caricatures that sometimes get trotted out on this forum.
But by all means, don't let me get in way of a good Garbon 'au contraire' moment/post, you do it so well, so often, it's as if one didn't need to see you posts, just that you've posted in a thread and from the subject matter one could guess what the content of you post will be.
Au contraire? My point was that life was complex, so not really a big epiphany that homelessness is complex.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 01, 2012, 07:31:42 PM
But I don't see how that advances the argument that basic food prices are wildly different by geography.
So my statement about cereal was irrelevant? :unsure:
Quote from: garbon on August 01, 2012, 08:15:08 PM
So my statement about cereal was irrelevant? :unsure:
It was potentially relevant but tainted by the unreliable source.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 01, 2012, 09:21:13 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 01, 2012, 08:15:08 PM
So my statement about cereal was irrelevant? :unsure:
It was potentially relevant but tainted by the unreliable source.
Played around with a few sites and here's what I got:
http://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/des-moines/new-york-city (http://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/des-moines/new-york-city)
NY Price - Des Moines Price - Price difference
QuoteDaily menu in the business district $14.91 $10.00 49%
Combo meal in fast food restaurant (Big Mac Meal or similar) $7.30 $5.86 25%
1/2 Kg (1 lb.) of chicken breast $5.02 $3.35 50%
1 liter (1 qt.) of whole fat milk $2.73 $1.54 77%
12 eggs, large $3.18 $1.79 78%
1 kg (2 lb.) of tomatoes $4.29 $3.87 11%
500 gr (16 oz.) of local cheese $6.66 $4.44 50%
1 kg (2 lb.) of apples $3.82 $2.91 31%
2 kg (4,5 lb.) of potatoes $4.39 $3.17 39%
0.5 l (16 oz) beer in the supermarket $2.45 $1.75 40%
1 bottle of red table wine, good quality $17.41 $12.03 45%
2 liters of Coca-Cola $2.33 $1.62 44%
bread for 2 people for 1 day $2.94 $1.67 76%
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=United+States&city1=Des+Moines%2C+IA&city2=New+York%2C+NY (http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=United+States&city1=Des+Moines%2C+IA&city2=New+York%2C+NY)
Des Moines price - NYC Price - Price Diff
QuoteMilk (regular), 1 liter 2.00 $ 1.50 $ -24.99 %
Loaf of Fresh White Bread (500g) 2.37 $ 2.84 $ +20.10 %
Eggs (12) 1.63 $ 3.30 $ +101.99 %
Fresh Cheese (1kg) 12.86 $ 10.97 $ -14.73 %
Chicken Breasts (Boneless, Skinless), (1kg) 5.77 $ 7.17 $ +24.28 %
Apples (1kg) 2.00 $ 3.73 $ +86.50 %
Oranges (1kg) 5.50 $ 3.55 $ -35.46 %
Potato (1kg) 0.77 $ 1.71 $ +121.20 %
Lettuce (1 head) 0.84 $ 1.85 $ +121.26 %
Water (1.5 liter bottle) 1.83 $ 2.27 $ +23.98 %
Bottle of Wine (Mid-Range) 14.25 $ 13.92 $ -2.30 %
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter bottle) 2.52 $ 3.02 $ +19.60 %
Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle) 3.08 $ 4.28 $ +39.11 %
Pack of Cigarettes (Marlboro) 5.88 $ 12.24 $ +108.29 %
You win. :sleep:
QuoteFor example, to keep the same standard of living that would require $36,000 in New York City you would need to make just about $23,076 (€18,723) in Vienna.
On the other hand, a new iPhone costs about the same here in Shanghai as it does in the States.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on August 02, 2012, 09:23:41 AM
On the other hand, a new iPhone costs about the same here in Shanghai as it does in the States.
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? ^_^