Fucking disgusting, an insult to all those servicemen who have served with valor in combat. Death to the Air Force, bring back the Army Air Corps.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/post/drone-pilots-to-get-medals/2012/07/09/gJQAF2PhYW_blog.html
QuoteDrone pilots to get medals?
By Al Kamen
The Pentagon is considering awarding a Distinguished Warfare Medal to drone pilots who work on military bases often far removed from the battlefield.
Pentagon officials have been briefed on the medal's "unique concept," Charles V. Mugno, head of the Army Institute of Heraldry, told a recent meeting of the Commission of Fine Arts, according to a report in Coin World by our former colleague Bill McAllister.
Mugno said most combat decorations require "boots on the ground" in a combat zone, but he noted that "emerging technologies" such as drones and cyber combat missions are now handled by troops far removed from combat.
The Pentagon has not formally endorsed the medal, but Mugno's institute has completed six alternate designs for commission approval.
The notion of greater recognition for drone pilots has been percolating for some time. Air Force Maj. Dave Blair, writing in the May-June issue of the Air & Space Power Journal, asked how much difference there is in terms of risk "between 10,000 feet and 10,000 miles."
A "manned aircraft . . . that scrapes the top of a combat zone, well outside the range of any realistic threat" is deemed in "combat," Blair writes, but a Predator firing a missile is considered "combat support."
The proposed medal would rank between the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Soldier's Medal for exceptional conduct outside a combat zone.
A medal that isn't for valor is an insult to people who receive other medals which are for valor?
QuoteFucking disgusting, an insult to all those servicemen who have served with valor in combat. Death to the Air Force, bring back the Army Air Corps.
How?
Are modern tank crews who blast their enemy from over a mile away less deserving of medals than 19th century cavalrymen who had to get up close and dirty?
Drones are just a natural evolution in removing the pilot from the bloodyness.
Quote from: Tyr on July 18, 2012, 06:06:30 AM
QuoteFucking disgusting, an insult to all those servicemen who have served with valor in combat. Death to the Air Force, bring back the Army Air Corps.
How?
Are modern tank crews who blast their enemy from over a mile away less deserving of medals than 19th century cavalrymen who had to get up close and dirty?
Drones are just a natural evolution in removing the pilot from the bloodyness.
That crew can be killed by other tanks, by artillery, missiles, antitank weapons etc. The drone pilot can't possibly be killed unless the conflict escalates to global thermonuclear war.
ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED
It's funny when a mentally retarded cripple is offended by stuff like this.
Drone pilots are fully-trained pilots with as much influence over the life-or-death outcome of a conflict as manned pilots. They have shifts flying in a dark room far longer than sorties undertaken on manned aircraft and suffer from more combat stress, possibly because of the position they find themselves in, not directly being in the line of fire. But who's to say terrorists wouldn't target their location?
This is from an interview on combat drone ethics I did with technology ethicist Blay Whitby:
"I was at a dinner for retired RAF officers last year and the [drone Commander] talked about his boys and girls in Nevada flying these things and said it was a very stressful posting. The old pilots there at the dinner were very unimpressed by this claim of stress, especially as we had a Battle of Britain hero there who had seen his friends burned to death in front of him.
"Compare this to flying in a shed completely out of harm's way, why is it stressful? I can't deny that it does seem to be stressful, and that might be another argument for getting humans more remote from the process [by further automating drones]. I would guess that the commanders on the base are also going to be unimpressed by the claim of combat stress.
As an ethicist I'd say we don't know why this is stressful and we should investigate before we go any further. It's a new sort of stress and it may be for the very reason that you said, it puts tremendous ethical responsibility on someone without them putting themselves at risk. "
Not all medals are for valour, combat medals are for contributing directly to the outcomes of a conflict to the best of your abilities.
I think people in my company deserve a medal when I'm droning on. :bowler:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 18, 2012, 05:46:14 AM
Fucking disgusting, an insult to all those servicemen who have served with valor in combat. Death to the Air Force, bring back the Army Air Corps.
QuoteThe proposed medal would rank between the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Soldier's Medal for exceptional conduct outside a combat zone.
And how exactly is a medal for "exceptional conduct outside a combat zone" an "insult to all those servicemen who have served with valor in combat"?
Or wait, I know: because you're a fucking moron retard assfuck.
Even more fun, UAS classes are being given by Community Colleges.
http://uas.sinclair.edu/index.html
Sinclair. :wub:
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 18, 2012, 07:55:33 AM
Even more fun, UAS classes are being given by Community Colleges.
http://uas.sinclair.edu/index.html
Doe sit consist of a XBox and
Ghost Recon: Future Soldier?
So Jimmy,
I sent your OP to the 432d Air Expeditionary Wing for comment.
They didn't respond, other than to mention that you might want to keep a look out up in the sky the next time you go outside.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 18, 2012, 06:14:27 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 18, 2012, 06:06:30 AM
QuoteFucking disgusting, an insult to all those servicemen who have served with valor in combat. Death to the Air Force, bring back the Army Air Corps.
How?
Are modern tank crews who blast their enemy from over a mile away less deserving of medals than 19th century cavalrymen who had to get up close and dirty?
Drones are just a natural evolution in removing the pilot from the bloodyness.
That crew can be killed by other tanks, by artillery, missiles, antitank weapons etc. The drone pilot can't possibly be killed unless the conflict escalates to global thermonuclear war.
Well they are blasting bad guys. That means they are competent and dedicated to what they do. That warrants some distinction doesn't it?
do REMFs get medals? If so, then drone pilots should get medals as well.
Quote from: Viking on July 18, 2012, 10:01:46 AM
do REMFs get medals? If so, then drone pilots should get medals as well.
Apparently, those are also an "insult to all those servicemen who have served with valor in combat." Why Timmay thinks non-combat medals insult those with combat medals is beyond me, but, then, most of his points escape me.
So long as he stays out of the NCAA football thread, though, I am perfectly willing to overlook his inability to make a logical point.
This is one of the best Timmeh threads ever.
Anyway, if we deem drone pilots' contributions to be important to today's battlefield (and I don't think anyone can argue that they aren't), I'd think we need to recognize them. Adding a new combat support medal seems like a good idea.
Generals have very little personal risk in today's warfare too, yet they seem to get distinguished service medals etc.
Quote from: grumbler on July 18, 2012, 10:36:39 AM
Quote from: Viking on July 18, 2012, 10:01:46 AM
do REMFs get medals? If so, then drone pilots should get medals as well.
Apparently, those are also an "insult to all those servicemen who have served with valor in combat." Why Timmay thinks non-combat medals insult those with combat medals is beyond me, but, then, most of his points escape me.
Tim has shamed me. I guess I'll return my Bronze Star for service to the nearest G-1. :(
Quote from: Brazen on July 18, 2012, 07:57:54 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 18, 2012, 07:55:33 AM
Even more fun, UAS classes are being given by Community Colleges.
http://uas.sinclair.edu/index.html
Doe sit consist of a XBox and Ghost Recon: Future Soldier?
I wish. I'd sneak out of SCM class and join them in pwning n00bs.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 18, 2012, 06:14:27 AM
Quote from: Tyr on July 18, 2012, 06:06:30 AM
QuoteFucking disgusting, an insult to all those servicemen who have served with valor in combat. Death to the Air Force, bring back the Army Air Corps.
How?
Are modern tank crews who blast their enemy from over a mile away less deserving of medals than 19th century cavalrymen who had to get up close and dirty?
Drones are just a natural evolution in removing the pilot from the bloodyness.
That crew can be killed by other tanks, by artillery, missiles, antitank weapons etc. The drone pilot can't possibly be killed unless the conflict escalates to global thermonuclear war.
I don't think a medieval soldier would see it quite that way. All he'd see is a bunch of pussies who get to sit miles from the action and press buttons to kill their drastically worse armed enemies.
If we consider fighter pilots its even worse...
I may have neglected to read the last few paragraphs in my rush to post this in my frothing rage.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 19, 2012, 03:27:16 AM
I may have neglected to read the last few paragraphs in my rush to post this in my frothing rage.
That is acceptable then. I suggest in the future you post in rage before even seeing the title of the article. It'll give things a nice.. unanticipated feel.
Quote from: The Brain on July 18, 2012, 05:52:26 AM
A medal that isn't for valor is an insult to people who receive other medals which are for valor?
This. A medal like this will be just another ribbon.
Nobody is gonna give a fart about a UAV medal.
You realize the Army gives medals for being top 20% of the class on schools, or the faster runner in a 10 km run, or even just for moving to a diferent base. It is call the Army Achievement Medal, lower than the Army Commendation Medal. The first "real" medal in the Army is the Bronze Star, and then only when given with the V device for valor.
I don't see why a UAV pilot can't get one for being the best at what he does.
Quote from: Siege on July 20, 2012, 07:44:33 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 18, 2012, 05:52:26 AM
A medal that isn't for valor is an insult to people who receive other medals which are for valor?
This. A medal like this will be just another ribbon.
Nobody is gonna give a fart about a UAV medal.
You realize the Army gives medals for being top 20% of the class on schools, or the faster runner in a 10 km run, or even just for moving to a diferent base. It is call the Army Achievement Medal, lower than the Army Commendation Medal. The first "real" medal in the Army is the Bronze Star, and then only when given with the V device for valor.
I don't see why a UAV pilot can't get one for being the best at what he does.
Agree
Quote from: 11B4V on July 20, 2012, 08:40:31 PM
Agree
You agree that the Bronze Star is only worth something with the V device?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 20, 2012, 09:17:13 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 20, 2012, 08:40:31 PM
Agree
You agree that the Bronze Star is only worth something with the V device?
I agree with drone pilots not getting anything higher than an ARCOM
Alrighty then.
Siege is likley correct.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on July 20, 2012, 09:45:41 PM
Siege is likley correct.
I can't imagine that had been posted here much before.
With the correct spelling either.
Quote from: 11B4V on July 20, 2012, 09:23:19 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 20, 2012, 09:17:13 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 20, 2012, 08:40:31 PM
Agree
You agree that the Bronze Star is only worth something with the V device?
I agree with drone pilots not getting anything higher than an ARCOM
Air Force Commendation Medal. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Tonitrus on July 20, 2012, 11:00:04 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 20, 2012, 09:23:19 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 20, 2012, 09:17:13 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 20, 2012, 08:40:31 PM
Agree
You agree that the Bronze Star is only worth something with the V device?
I agree with drone pilots not getting anything higher than an ARCOM
Air Force Wing Nut Commendation Medal. :rolleyes:
Fixed it for you.
Quote from: sbr on July 20, 2012, 10:05:55 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on July 20, 2012, 09:45:41 PM
Siege is likley correct.
I can't imagine that had been posted here much before.
With the correct spelling either.
You are likely correct.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 20, 2012, 09:17:13 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 20, 2012, 08:40:31 PM
Agree
You agree that the Bronze Star is only worth something with the V device?
I agree.
Do you realize SFC/E-7 and above get a Bronze Star (without V) for just deploying to a combat zone?
Come on man, if you stay long enough in the Army you get all kinds of stupid medals for just sitting on your ass.
Now the real ones, Bronze Star V and above, those ain't fun to get.
Lets put it this way. The SMA (Sergeant Major of the Army) have 4 times more medals than I do, but he doesn't have a single medal for valor. He is not infantry to begin with.
Notice below how he got 10 good conduct medals, I got 2. He got 8 ARCOMs. I got 3. And so on.
But no awards for valor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_F._Chandler
Quote from: Siege on July 23, 2012, 09:49:36 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 20, 2012, 09:17:13 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on July 20, 2012, 08:40:31 PM
Agree
You agree that the Bronze Star is only worth something with the V device?
I agree.
Do you realize SFC/E-7 and above get a Bronze Star (without V) for just deploying to a combat zone?
Shame it's been watered down so much. I've known Vietnam vets with just the standard BS that did a whole fuck lot more than just showing up.
Another example of why the United States Army has devolved itself into a fucking Special Olympics. BERETS FOR EVERYBODY
I think the US army has always been pretty free with medals.
Wow. Gramps got a bronzie for charging a machine gun nest at Anzio and saving his squad. Jumped up on top of the pillbox and tossed grenades in. I guess he'd get a MoH today.
Really so long as the standards for the MoH are maintained I don't care what 'participant' medals the military feels moral demands they toss out.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 23, 2012, 01:53:24 PM
Wow. Gramps got a bronzie for charging a machine gun nest at Anzio and saving his squad. Jumped up on top of the pillbox and tossed grenades in. I guess he'd get a MoH today.
My Gramps helped procure those fine grenades from his desk in the Munitions department. Today he might get a Bronze Star for that :P
Quote from: Siege on July 23, 2012, 09:49:36 AM
Do you realize SFC/E-7 and above get a Bronze Star (without V) for just deploying to a combat zone?
Come on man, if you stay long enough in the Army you get all kinds of stupid medals for just sitting on your ass.
In my ROTC days I came across a major who was said to have gotten his Bronze Star and unit combat patch (forget what unit it was) for spending what was essentially a 2 or 3 day layover in Saudi (or maybe it was Kuwait after liberation) during the latter part of Desert Storm. IIRC he was just on his way to his officer advanced course and his flights got screwed up.
Quote from: Martinus on July 18, 2012, 06:34:25 AM
It's funny when a mentally retarded cripple is offended by stuff like this.
fucking moron.
Quote from: Siege on July 23, 2012, 09:49:36 AM
Notice below how he got 10 good conduct medals, I got 2. He got 8 ARCOMs. I got 3. And so on.
amazing. they gave YOU 2 medals for good conduct? One could have been an accident, but two? Man, this army is seriously fucked up! ;) :D
QuoteA day job waiting for a kill shot a world away
From bases in the US, drone pilots watch for targets in Afghanistan
By ELISABETH BUMILLER
NEW YORK TIMES
HANCOCK FIELD AIR NATIONAL GUARD BASE, N.Y. — From his computer console here in the Syracuse suburbs, Col. D. Scott Brenton remotely flies a Reaper drone that beams back hundreds of hours of live video of insurgents, his intended targets, going about their daily lives 7,000 miles away in Afghanistan. Sometimes he and his team watch the same family compound for weeks.
"I see mothers with children, I see fathers with children, I see fathers with mothers, I see kids playing soccer," Colonel Brenton said.
When the call comes for him to fire a missile and kill a militant — and only, Colonel Brenton said, when the women and children are not around — the hair on the back of his neck stands up, just as it did when he used to line up targets in his F-16 fighter jet.
Afterward, just like the old days, he compartmentalizes. "I feel no emotional attachment to the enemy," he said. "I have a duty, and I execute the duty."
Drones are not only revolutionizing American warfare but are also changing in profound ways the lives of the people who fly them.
Colonel Brenton acknowledges the peculiar new disconnect of fighting a telewar with a joystick and a throttle from his padded seat in American suburbia.
When he was deployed in Iraq, "you land and there's no more weapons on your F-16, people have an idea of what you were just involved with." Now he steps out of a dark room of video screens, his adrenaline still surging after squeezing the trigger, and commutes home past fast-food restaurants and convenience stores to help with homework — but always alone with what he has done.
"It's a strange feeling," he said. "No one in my immediate environment is aware of anything that occurred."
Routinely thought of as robots that turn wars into sanitized video games, the drones have powerful cameras that bring war straight into a pilot's face.
Although pilots speak glowingly of the good days, when they can look at a video feed and warn a ground patrol in Afghanistan about an ambush ahead, the Air Force is also moving chaplains and medics just outside drone operation centers to help pilots deal with the bad days — images of a child killed in error or a close-up of a Marine shot in a raid gone wrong.
Among the toughest psychological tasks is the close surveillance for aerial sniper missions, reminiscent of the East German Stasi officer absorbed by the people he spies on in the movie "The Lives of Others." A drone pilot and his partner, a sensor operator who manipulates the aircraft's camera, observe the habits of a militant as he plays with his children, talks to his wife and visits his neighbors. They then try to time their strike when, for example, his family is out at the market.
"They watch this guy do bad things and then his regular old life things," said Col. Hernando Ortega, the chief of aerospace medicine for the Air Education Training Command, who helped conduct a study last year on the stresses on drone pilots. "At some point, some of the stuff might remind you of stuff you did yourself. You might gain a level of familiarity that makes it a little difficult to pull the trigger."
Of a dozen pilots, sensor operators and supporting intelligence analysts recently interviewed from three American military bases, none acknowledged the kind of personal feelings for Afghans that would keep them awake at night after seeing the bloodshed left by missiles and bombs. But all spoke of a certain intimacy with Afghan family life that traditional pilots never see from 20,000 feet, and that even ground troops seldom experience.
"You see them wake up in the morning, do their work, go to sleep at night," said Dave, an Air Force major who flew drones from 2007 to 2009 at Creech Air Force Base in Nevada and now trains drone pilots at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico. (The Air Force, citing what it says are credible threats, forbids pilots to disclose their last names. Senior commanders who speak to the news media and community groups about the base's mission, like Colonel Brenton in Syracuse, use their full names.)
Some pilots spoke of the roiling emotions after they fire a missile. (Only pilots, all of them officers, employ weapons for strikes.)
"There was good reason for killing the people that I did, and I go through it in my head over and over and over," said Will, an Air Force officer who was a pilot at Creech and now trains others at Holloman. "But you never forget about it. It never just fades away, I don't think — not for me."
The complexities will only grow as the military struggles to keep up with a near insatiable demand for drones. The Air Force now has more than 1,300 drone pilots, about 300 less than it needs, stationed at 13 or more bases across the United States. They fly the unmanned aircraft mostly in Afghanistan. (The numbers do not include the classified program of the C.I.A., which conducts drone strikes in Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen.) Although the Afghan war is winding down, the military expects drones to help compensate for fewer troops on the ground.
By 2015, the Pentagon projects that the Air Force will need more than 2,000 drone pilots for combat air patrols operating 24 hours a day worldwide. The Air Force is already training more drone pilots — 350 last year — than fighter and bomber pilots combined. Until this year, drone pilots went through traditional flight training before learning how to operate Predators, Reapers and unarmed Global Hawks. Now the pilots are on a fast track and spend only 40 hours in a basic Cessna-type plane before starting their drone training.
Gen. Norton A. Schwartz, the Air Force chief of staff, said it was "conceivable" that drone pilots in the Air Force would outnumber those in cockpits in the foreseeable future, although he predicted that the Air Force would have traditional pilots for at least 30 more years.
Many drone pilots once flew in the air themselves but switched to drones out of a sense of the inevitable — or if they flew cargo planes, to feel closer to the war. "You definitely feel more connected to the guys, the battle," said Dave, the Air Force major, who flew C-130 transport planes in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Now more and more Air National Guard bases are abandoning traditional aircraft and switching to drones to meet demand, among them Hancock Field, which retired its F-16s and switched to Reapers in 2010. Colonel Brenton, who by then had logged more than 4,000 hours flying F-16s in 15 years of active duty and a decade in Syracuse deploying to war zones with the Guard, said he learned to fly drones to stay connected to combat. True, drones cannot engage in air-to-air combat, but Colonel Brenton said that "the amount of time I've engaged the enemy in air-to-ground combat has been significant" in both Reapers and F-16s.
"I feel like I'm doing the same thing I've always done, I just don't deploy to do it," he said. Now he works full time commanding a force of about 220 Reaper pilots, sensor operators and intelligence analysts at the base.
Pilots say the best days are when ground troops thank them for keeping them safe. Ted, an Air Force major and an F-16 pilot who flew Reapers from Creech, recalled how troops on an extended patrol away from their base in Afghanistan were grateful when he flew a Reaper above them for five hours so they could get some sleep one night. They told him, "We're keeping one guy awake to talk to you, but if you can, just watch over and make sure nobody's sneaking up on us," he recalled.
All the operators dismiss the notion that they are playing a video game. (They also reject the word "drone" because they say it describes an aircraft that flies on its own. They call their planes remotely piloted aircraft.)
"I don't have any video games that ask me to sit in one seat for six hours and look at the same target," said Joshua, a sensor operator who worked at Creech for a decade and is now a trainer at Holloman. "One of the things we try to beat into our crews is that this is a real aircraft with a real human component, and whatever decisions you make, good or bad, there's going to be actual consequences."
In his 10 years at Creech, he said without elaborating, "I've seen some pretty disturbing things."
All of the pilots who once flew in cockpits say they do miss the sensation of flight, which for Colonel Brenton extends to the F-16 flybys he did for the Syracuse Memorial Day parade downtown. To make up for it, he sometimes heads out on weekends in a small propeller plane, which he calls a bug smasher.
"It's nice to be up in the air," he said.
Taa-daa! Here we go:
http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=119290
QuotePanetta Announces Distinguished Warfare Medal
By Jim Garamone
American Forces Press Service
WASHINGTON, Feb. 13, 2013 – Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta has approved a new medal designed to recognize service members directly affecting combat operations who may not even be on the same continent as the action.
The Distinguished Warfare Medal recognizes the changing face of warfare. In the past, few, if any, service members not actually in a combat zone directly affected combat operations.
These new capabilities have given American service members the ability to engage the enemy and change the course of battle, even from afar, Panetta said at a Pentagon news conference today.
"I've always felt -- having seen the great work that they do, day in and day out -- that those who performed in an outstanding manner should be recognized. Unfortunately, medals that they otherwise might be eligible for simply did not recognize that kind of contribution."
Now, the Defense Department does.
" "The medal provides distinct, departmentwide recognition for the extraordinary achievements that directly impact on combat operations, but that do not involve acts of valor or physical risk that combat entails," Panetta said.
Technological advancements have dramatically changed how the American military conducts and supports warfighters. Unmanned aerial vehicles, unmanned underwater vehicles, missile defense technology and cyber capabilities all affect combat operations while the operators may not be anywhere near the combat zone. The new medal recognizes the contributions of these service members.
It will not be awarded for acts of battlefield valor, officials said. It will be awarded in the name of the secretary of defense to members of the military whose extraordinary achievements directly impacted combat operations, and cannot be used as an end-of-tour award.
"This new medal recognizes the changing character of warfare and those who make extraordinary contributions to it," said Army Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. "The criteria for this award will be highly selective and reflect high standards."
The most immediate example is the work of an unmanned aerial vehicle operator who could be operating a system over Afghanistan while based at Creech Air Force Base, Nev. The unmanned aerial vehicle would directly affect operations on the ground. Another example is that of a soldier at Fort Meade, Md., who detects and thwarts a cyberattack on a DOD computer system.
The medal could be used to recognize both these exceptional acts, officials said.
In the order of precedence, the Distinguished Warfare Medal will be below the Distinguished Flying Cross, and will be limited to achievements that are truly extraordinary. "The member's actions must have resulted in an accomplishment so exceptional and outstanding as to clearly set the individual apart from comrades or from other persons in similar situations," a DOD official said.
The military department secretary must approve each award, and it may not be presented for valorous actions. "This limitation was specifically included to keep the Distinguished Warfare Medal from detracting from existing valor decorations, such as the Medal of Honor, Service Crosses and Silver Star Medal," the official said.
Award criteria will be incorporated into the next revision of DOD Manual 1348.33-V3, Manual of Military Decorations and Awards, Volume 3.
I'm guessing it's going to look something like this. The four quarters will signal the level of the medal:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.digitalwhip.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F01%2F1464301-achievement_unlocked_mousepad_p144945287843388630trak_400_large.png&hash=a8ef4f1f3b400aeaa303543f565c9ae4e2187a76)
You know, I wonder what it would do to a people long-term, living under the constant and random threat of assassination via missile. It's like a horror movie or something.
Quote from: Neil on February 14, 2013, 01:02:52 PM
You know, I wonder what it would do to a people long-term, living under the constant and random threat of assassination via missile. It's like a horror movie or something.
There's a name for that: Israeli.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 23, 2012, 01:53:24 PM
Wow. Gramps got a bronzie for charging a machine gun nest at Anzio and saving his squad. Jumped up on top of the pillbox and tossed grenades in. I guess he'd get a MoH today.
Now let's be fair, he probably saved himself too. :P
Anyway, drone pilots kill people. Killing people is (probably?) hard, even and maybe especially if you are not yourself threatened.
Quote from: Neil on February 14, 2013, 01:02:52 PM
You know, I wonder what it would do to a people long-term, living under the constant and random threat of assassination via missile. It's like a horror movie or something.
Ironic considering that their immediate goals involve making us live in fear.
Quote from: Ideologue on February 14, 2013, 01:37:36 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 23, 2012, 01:53:24 PM
Wow. Gramps got a bronzie for charging a machine gun nest at Anzio and saving his squad. Jumped up on top of the pillbox and tossed grenades in. I guess he'd get a MoH today.
Now let's be fair, he probably saved himself too. :P
:lol: Selfish bastard.
Quote from: Siege on July 20, 2012, 07:44:33 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 18, 2012, 05:52:26 AM
A medal that isn't for valor is an insult to people who receive other medals which are for valor?
This. A medal like this will be just another ribbon.
Nobody is gonna give a fart about a UAV medal.
You realize the Army gives medals for being top 20% of the class on schools, or the faster runner in a 10 km run, or even just for moving to a diferent base. It is call the Army Achievement Medal, lower than the Army Commendation Medal. The first "real" medal in the Army is the Bronze Star, and then only when given with the V device for valor.
I don't see why a UAV pilot can't get one for being the best at what he does.
Psh, my Arcom with Valor begs to differ.
I will agree, though, that most non-combat awards are a joke. Give out regular bronze stars like candy now-a-days.
My brother got a campaign ribbon for Gulf War I. He was an electronics repairment on a sub tender docked at La Madd. To top it off, even if the ship had ever left port and actually gone to the Gulf, he was part of the stay-behind detachment.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 14, 2013, 01:11:01 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 14, 2013, 01:02:52 PM
You know, I wonder what it would do to a people long-term, living under the constant and random threat of assassination via missile. It's like a horror movie or something.
There's a name for that: Israeli.
Not the same. The Israelis can retaliate, and could easily solve the problem permanently. The terrorizers and their families can only endure.
I'm of two minds on this.
On one hand, it is kinda silly to reward some soldiers and not the others.
On the other hand, if you get medals for just doing well in a situation where you are not risking your life, then why give medals to these soldiers, and not to a civilian surgeon who does very well in the surgery room?
Quote from: Martinus on February 14, 2013, 04:17:03 PM
I'm of two minds on this.
On one hand, it is kinda silly to reward some soldiers and not the others.
On the other hand, if you get medals for just doing well in a situation where you are not risking your life, then why give medals to these soldiers, and not to a civilian surgeon who does very well in the surgery room?
The armed services do give out awards and medals for doing well in non-combat duties. They don't give them to civilians (normally) for the same reason that if your law firm gives out bonuses, they don't give them to lawyers who work for other firms.
edalmay ixnayed
QuotePentagon cancels divisive Distinguished Warfare Medal for cyber ops, drone strikes
The special medal for the Pentagon's drone operators and cyberwarriors didn't last long.
Two months after the military rolled out the Distinguished Warfare Medal for troops who don't set foot on the battlefield, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel has concluded it was a bad idea. Some veterans and some lawmakers spoke out against the award, arguing that it was unfair to make the medal a higher honor than some issued for valor on the battlefield.
The controversy echoed a broader debate over defense policy, irking those who feel uneasy about the extent to which remote-controlled aircraft have become the tip of America's spear in the war against extremists abroad.
After ordering a review of a policy that was one of his predecessor's last official moves, Hagel said Monday that he concluded no such medal was needed. Instead, he said, a "device" will be affixed to existing medals to recognize those who fly and operate drones, whom he described as "critical to our military's mission of safeguarding the nation."
Devices are used by the Pentagon to add a specific form of additional recognition when troops are lauded for exceptional performance.
The Veterans of Foreign Wars, one of the groups that had been critical of the medal, praised Hagel for promptly taking on the issue.
"This decision will clearly keep medals that can only be earned in combat in their high order of precedence, while providing proper recognition to all who support our warfighters regardless of their distance from the fight," John E. Hamilton, the head of the veterans' group, said in a statement.
Former Secretary of Defense Leon E. Panetta announced the award on Feb. 13, one of his lasts days in office, saying that the evolution of combat warranted a new inclusion for men and women who perform game-changing acts remotely.
"Our military reserves its highest decorations obviously for those who display gallantry and valor in actions when their lives are on the line and we will continue to do so," he said at the time. "But we should also have the ability to honor the extraordinary actions that make a true difference in combat operations."
The Pentagon said no service members had been nominated for the new medal.
Too bad. These guys serve a very valuable function that involves killing bad guys and breaking their stuff.
But whatever-- I suppose they can still recognize their contributions with existing decorations. And if they make the device a miniature Xbox or Playstation controller, or maybe an old school Atari 2600 joystick, that'd be awesome.