It's time for a new computer. I'm going to build it in time for Windows 8 release, but it doesn't hurt to plan early. My budget is about $1500, but I'll take it up to $2,000 if I have to. My goal is to have a very powerful, but not insane computer.
What's the latest state of the art that I should be aware of? In particular, I'm curious to see what motherboard, CPU, and video cards I should put in my new PC.
Ivy Bridge is the new thing for Intel.
You can try Windows 8 right now. Do it before you spend 100$ on it & hate it, so, so very much.
Make sure it has SVGA.
Quote from: The Brain on July 05, 2012, 05:46:00 PM
Make sure it has SVGA.
Hercules sounds even stronger. :P
These days, and for that kind of money, I would buy a nice laptop, and hook it up to your existing keyboard and monitor. Any system you spend $1500 is going to be overkill for anything you're likely to do on it.
Quote from: Barrister on July 05, 2012, 11:21:29 PM
These days, and for that kind of money, I would buy a nice laptop, and hook it up to your existing keyboard and monitor. Any system you spend $1500 is going to be overkill for anything you're likely to do on it.
Not bad, so this is your new technique for recommending Apple, by not mentioning the corporations name. :cool:
Quote from: mongers on July 06, 2012, 09:14:35 AM
Not bad, so this is your new technique for recommending Apple, by not mentioning the corporations name. :cool:
I'm sure that by "laptop," he really means Mac Mini: http://www.apple.com/macmini/
:P
Quote from: Barrister on July 05, 2012, 11:21:29 PM
These days, and for that kind of money, I would buy a nice laptop, and hook it up to your existing keyboard and monitor. Any system you spend $1500 is going to be overkill for anything you're likely to do on it.
Hell no. Kind of hard to make a gaming rig out of a laptop.
Which motherboard maker has the best reputation for reliability? Is it ASUS? I think my MSI motherboard is not quite all right, and I'd rather avoid the repeat of that experience.
Quote from: DGuller on July 04, 2012, 04:09:11 PM
It's time for a new computer. I'm going to build it in time for Windows 8 release, but it doesn't hurt to plan early. My budget is about $1500, but I'll take it up to $2,000 if I have to. My goal is to have a very powerful, but not insane computer.
What's the latest state of the art that I should be aware of? In particular, I'm curious to see what motherboard, CPU, and video cards I should put in my new PC.
AMD 990FX (I recommend the Asus Sabertooth with a 5 year warrenty)
AM3+ 8 core processor
Radeon 7950 (price=300$ if you shop around enough)
SSD drive, OCZ Vertex 4, 256gb (price=240$)
Sata III hdd 2tb (price=110$).
8gb DDR3 Ram
Price for this is around 1100-1200$.
After preliminary stroll through newegg.com, I have a couple of questions.
First, what's the latest skinny on Intel vs. AMD? Is AMD a viable alternative now for semi-hardcore gaming? I've always been an Intel man, but that was due to sticking with tried and true more than anything.
Secondly, I need to revisit the size of case issue. Is mid-tower good enough, or will it feel cramped, with the video cards being the size of small cars these days? I have to say that my current HAF case may be a bit of an overkill. While certainly it gives me enough room to work in, it's a bit too ponderous to tuck away far enough to not regularly stub toes on.
My 6 core AMD(My first AMD powered computer) has been fine. Can't give you any benchmarks, since I don't do that crap anymore.
It does seem to pump out the heat.
After reading the articles I could Google, I'm going to stick with Intel. AMD seems like an iffy proposition for a gaming rig.
I'm enjoying my intel, now old in that it is sandy bridge, but does okay :P
Quote from: DGuller on July 06, 2012, 11:55:21 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 05, 2012, 11:21:29 PM
These days, and for that kind of money, I would buy a nice laptop, and hook it up to your existing keyboard and monitor. Any system you spend $1500 is going to be overkill for anything you're likely to do on it.
Hell no. Kind of hard to make a gaming rig out of a laptop.
A few years ago? Sure.
In 2012? A laptop will run games just fine.
Quote from: Barrister on July 06, 2012, 10:42:34 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 06, 2012, 11:55:21 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 05, 2012, 11:21:29 PM
These days, and for that kind of money, I would buy a nice laptop, and hook it up to your existing keyboard and monitor. Any system you spend $1500 is going to be overkill for anything you're likely to do on it.
Hell no. Kind of hard to make a gaming rig out of a laptop.
A few years ago? Sure.
In 2012? A laptop will run games just fine.
Lots of configurations will run games just fine. I want the configuration where I won't have to worry about getting the top performance on even graphics-intensive games, and getting it for a number of years in the future. Besides, I just don't get the point of settling on a compromise solution that is laptop, when it's just going to be docked most of the time. That's like buying a pickup truck when you just take pleasure rides on the weekends.
Quote from: Barrister on July 06, 2012, 10:42:34 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 06, 2012, 11:55:21 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 05, 2012, 11:21:29 PM
These days, and for that kind of money, I would buy a nice laptop, and hook it up to your existing keyboard and monitor. Any system you spend $1500 is going to be overkill for anything you're likely to do on it.
Hell no. Kind of hard to make a gaming rig out of a laptop.
A few years ago? Sure.
In 2012? A laptop will run games just fine.
:huh:
I've installed Windows 8 on my old 30 GB SSD drive. Seems fine, if a bit annoying due to novelty, I don't see what the hate is for. Of course, this is the first time I've had an OS running from SSD, so maybe that's not a fair comparison.
WTF? All this playing around with Windows 8 made me notice that my 920 CPU was running at 1.6 GHz, because its task manager shows you the frequency up front and center. At first I thought that this may be throttling back to save power, but then I checked BIOS, and I had the EIST and CxO disabled (maybe not a good idea for another reason, but this shouldn't have throttled me back). Nothing I did seemed to move me off 1.6, even when I ran a CPU stress test program. Then I changed the multiplier in the BIOS from 20x to 18x, and suddenly I got 2.4 GHz that this multiplier should give you. I changed it back to 20, and now I got 2.70 GHz.
WTF just happened there? In the end, my BIOS setting reverted back to where they were, and yet my CPU frequency got unstuck from 1.6 GHz, and back to where it should've been. For some reason my PC was running as 12x multiplier even though I had it set to 20x. I wonder how long I was running my PC at 60% of its advertised power? I'll play around with it and see if my computer feels faster than it did before. I may not need a new computer just yet.
And further WTF: for whatever reason, during all those trials and errors in changing my CPU setting in BIOS, the turbo option was "grayed out". Now that I unstuck the 12x multiplier, it's not. :huh: I wonder if I tripped some stealth safe mode when the CPU fan fell off a year ago, and made my CPU overheat to the point of making PC shut off. Now that I think about it, I think I was running at 1.60 GHz for about a year, since I recall seeing a number like that during startup, but never paid much attention to it. :hmm:
Quote from: DGuller on July 06, 2012, 04:32:49 PM
First, what's the latest skinny on Intel vs. AMD? Is AMD a viable alternative now for semi-hardcore gaming? I've always been an Intel man, but that was due to sticking with tried and true more than anything.
Intel is the absolute best. You pay a premium, but you get the fastest processors out there.
If you want $$/performance though, AMD is the King. You pay less, and you get less, but you get a very-more-than-decent CPU for half the price you pay an Intel.
I would recommend Intel for hardcore gaming on ultra-high resolution with multiple monitors and multiple video cards. AMD for the rest.
Quote
Secondly, I need to revisit the size of case issue. Is mid-tower good enough, or will it feel cramped, with the video cards being the size of small cars these days? I have to say that my current HAF case may be a bit of an overkill. While certainly it gives me enough room to work in, it's a bit too ponderous to tuck away far enough to not regularly stub toes on.
Full-tower and nothing less.
Quote from: DGuller on July 06, 2012, 05:21:27 PM
After reading the articles I could Google, I'm going to stick with Intel. AMD seems like an iffy proposition for a gaming rig.
I've been gaming on AMD for many years now. Crysis and Cryiss 2 gave me some headaches at the time. Otherwise, I ran everything at the best possible resolution without problems.
Quote from: Barrister on July 06, 2012, 10:42:34 PM
A few years ago? Sure.
In 2012? A laptop will run games just fine.
for 3000$, sure. For 1500$, don't expect to play anything more graphic intensive than Civilization V.
Quote from: DGuller on July 08, 2012, 07:34:31 PM
And further WTF: for whatever reason, during all those trials and errors in changing my CPU setting in BIOS, the turbo option was "grayed out". Now that I unstuck the 12x multiplier, it's not. :huh: I wonder if I tripped some stealth safe mode when the CPU fan fell off a year ago, and made my CPU overheat to the point of making PC shut off. Now that I think about it, I think I was running at 1.60 GHz for about a year, since I recall seeing a number like that during startup, but never paid much attention to it. :hmm:
You could overclock your CPU and video card by 5-10% without problems. Change fans, and you can overclock it by 15-20%.
I don't care much about overclocking, I think computer components in this day and age are far too unreliable to push it. However, I am disturbed by the fact that I was severely underclocked without being aware of it. I suspect that I was running at almost half the power for at least a year.
Quote from: viper37 on July 09, 2012, 09:10:31 AM
Quote from: Barrister on July 06, 2012, 10:42:34 PM
A few years ago? Sure.
In 2012? A laptop will run games just fine.
for 3000$, sure. For 1500$, don't expect to play anything more graphic intensive than Civilization V.
My 700 Euro laptop runs Diablo III fine with all details switched on.
Quote from: DGuller on July 09, 2012, 03:38:38 PM
I don't care much about overclocking, I think computer components in this day and age are far too unreliable to push it.
Actually, computer components in this day and age support overclocking better than 5 years ago.
What you need however is a good power supply and good fans (default fans aren't usually that good on CPUs and video cards).
Quote from: Zanza on July 09, 2012, 03:58:20 PM
My 700 Euro laptop runs Diablo III fine with all details switched on.
Than I stand corrected. There have obviously been some advancement in the technology in the last few years.
Quote from: viper37 on July 10, 2012, 10:02:31 AM
Quote from: Zanza on July 09, 2012, 03:58:20 PM
My 700 Euro laptop runs Diablo III fine with all details switched on.
Than I stand corrected. There have obviously been some advancement in the technology in the last few years.
:yes:
With a quality laptop you might not be able to set every graphical setting to "ultra" but you will definitely be able to run pretty much every game that's out there.
Please note I said "quality" laptop however.
Quote from: viper37 on July 10, 2012, 10:00:57 AM
Quote from: DGuller on July 09, 2012, 03:38:38 PM
I don't care much about overclocking, I think computer components in this day and age are far too unreliable to push it.
Actually, computer components in this day and age support overclocking better than 5 years ago.
What you need however is a good power supply and good fans (default fans aren't usually that good on CPUs and video cards).
They may support it better, but computer parts are still in the 1970ies GM quality era. I've had way too many computer parts fail on me to be confident in stressing my system even more.
Quote from: DGuller on July 10, 2012, 11:28:51 AM
They may support it better, but computer parts are still in the 1970ies GM quality era. I've had way too many computer parts fail on me to be confident in stressing my system even more.
As I said, you need good fans, with good thermal past. And a good power supply.
I've overclocked my pcs for years without problems.
My problem with going laptop route is the pain of upgrading parts if even possible.
Quote from: viper37 on July 10, 2012, 10:00:57 AM
Actually, computer components in this day and age support overclocking better than 5 years ago.
What you need however is a good power supply and good fans (default fans aren't usually that good on CPUs and video cards).
Seconded. Back in the day, you could forget about reliably overclocking anything other than a Coppermine Celeron. These days, the processor manufacturers are keen to allow overclocking, since most reviewers include overclocking capabilities in their benchmarking.
Quote from: katmai on July 10, 2012, 07:46:40 PM
My problem with going laptop route is the pain of upgrading parts if even possible.
Fair enough. But how often do you wind up upgrading parts?
I've done it a few times on my now near end of life PC. If I'd only had a laptop, I would probably have had to seek out a new machine sooner.
Quote from: garbon on July 12, 2012, 10:25:30 AM
I've done it a few times on my now near end of life PC. If I'd only had a laptop, I would probably have had to seek out a new machine sooner.
Well, yeah. I'm not suggesting the "laptop as desktop replacement" if you're watching every last penny. But if you're going to spend $1500 on a desktop you're not watching every last penny.
Quote from: Barrister on July 12, 2012, 10:23:18 AM
Quote from: katmai on July 10, 2012, 07:46:40 PM
My problem with going laptop route is the pain of upgrading parts if even possible.
Fair enough. But how often do you wind up upgrading parts?
Well, I'm now actually leaning towards upgrade path. I think my Core i7 920 CPU is still fine, after I ungimped it, even it's two generations behind. I think getting a real SSD and not a 30 GB toy, as well as another 6 GB of RAM, would be sufficient for quite some time.
what is the current generation? I lost track when they shifted to multi cores.
Quote from: Barrister on July 12, 2012, 10:35:15 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 12, 2012, 10:25:30 AM
I've done it a few times on my now near end of life PC. If I'd only had a laptop, I would probably have had to seek out a new machine sooner.
Well, yeah. I'm not suggesting the "laptop as desktop replacement" if you're watching every last penny. But if you're going to spend $1500 on a desktop you're not watching every last penny.
I hardly watch every last penny. <_<
My thought was related to lifetime use as just because you by a top of the line model right now, that doesn't mean you want to repeat the process in a couple years.
Quote from: Razgovory on July 13, 2012, 12:34:09 AM
what is the current generation? I lost track when they shifted to multi cores.
So did I, think were a lot easier when numbers were involved. The latest generation is Ivy Bridge, then one before is Sandy Bridge, and the one before is Nehalem (I think).
Core i7 Extreme Edition is the most recent generation of Intel CPU.
Below that is i7, then i5, and i3.
If you do buy a SSD, check the OCZ Vertex 4, 128 or 240gb.
Quote from: viper37 on July 14, 2012, 02:44:00 PM
Core i7 Extreme Edition is the most recent generation of Intel CPU.
Below that is i7, then i5, and i3.
Those are not generations, those are classes (or whatever the word is). There are three generations following the i7/5/3 nomenclature.
Quote
If you do buy a SSD, check the OCZ Vertex 4, 128 or 240gb.
I heard bad things about OCZ SSDs. I'd rather go with Crucial, they seem to be the hands-down favorite on Newegg.
Quote from: Barrister on July 12, 2012, 10:23:18 AM
Quote from: katmai on July 10, 2012, 07:46:40 PM
My problem with going laptop route is the pain of upgrading parts if even possible.
Fair enough. But how often do you wind up upgrading parts?
Speaking for myself, I haven't bought a complete parts package[1] in 6 or 7 years. My Windows box, which is still a Core 2 Q6600, is on its third video card and second hard drive. My Linux box has had quite a bit of turnover as I experimented with things, but I always reused some parts from my stash. The cases are 9 and 13 years old, respectively, had have each had multiple power supplies.
I grant that I am the exception, though.
[1] Intel Atom boxes don't count, since they are almost a full system on a board.
Quote from: DGuller on July 14, 2012, 09:50:15 PM
I heard bad things about OCZ SSDs. I'd rather go with Crucial, they seem to be the hands-down favorite on Newegg.
new controller for the 4th generation. Just don't forget to update the firmware before installing your stuff.