In the week I paid a visit to the local museum, the Salisbury and South Wiltshire Museum; I'd forgotten what a great attraction it is.
I spent about and 1 3/4 hours there and hadn't seen all the exhibits, by the time it closed, I shall have to go back.
So what is you local museum like and what other ones would you recommend ?
Details of the Salisbury museum here:
http://www.salisburymuseum.org.uk/about-us/about-the-museum/
I have to say it's a magical place, housed in a 13th century grade I listed building within the close opposite Salisbury Cathedral, the day I visited there weren't too many other visitors, so you often had the particular room to yourself, just the sound of the creaking floorboards as you walked about and birdsong filtering through the open windows.
The building itself is a warren of rooms, which will get you lost, but every turn provides a new room of unexpected exhibits.
It's strengths are the archaeological, Stonehenge, Saxon and medieval collections, but I was surprised to find one gallery containing some Turners:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.salisburymuseum.org.uk%2Fimages%2Fstories%2Fcollections%2FdistantViewFromOldSarum.jpg&hash=dc7a41394d2fbbca0e4f263b07ef55f128431eb3)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.salisburymuseum.org.uk%2Fimages%2Fstories%2Fcollections%2Fstonehengeturner.jpg&hash=e97bddc36114aadc64b45717f9d3dbc7ac5f0fc3)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.salisburymuseum.org.uk%2Fimages%2Fstories%2Fcollections%2FnorthPorch.jpg&hash=8b479aa15a33c639736572470dca82b7b36351da)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.salisburymuseum.org.uk%2Fimages%2Fstories%2Fcollections%2FchoirAndLady%2520ChapelSalisburyCathedral.jpg&hash=07059cb12cc0268d1ea2cbd3060c5e41cdec091f)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.salisburymuseum.org.uk%2Fimages%2Fstories%2Fcollections%2FnorthTransept.jpg&hash=71ac1838fd774d5074e88b306e33cc9585c72eab)
Definitely worth a visit, especially if you're going to Stonehenge, as much of the museums content provides to context within which to place one understanding of the rather touristified world heritage site. :hmm:
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/
USA! USA! USA!
Mongers, visiting Stonehenge is on my to dos, and I haven't done it yet because I want to spend a couple days in the area. I understand that Stonehenge itself is a letdown and kind of tourist trap, but the museums and other sites in the area (including Salisbury) are first rate.
The National Great Blacks In Wax Museum
1601-03 East North Avenue
Baltimore, Maryland 21213
Across from the Courthouse. Easy access to parking and Chick n' Trout Carry-Out.
Quote from: alfred russel on June 27, 2012, 07:22:46 PM
Mongers, visiting Stonehenge is on my to dos, and I haven't done it yet because I want to spend a couple days in the area. I understand that Stonehenge itself is a letdown and kind of tourist trap, but the museums and other sites in the area (including Salisbury) are first rate.
Yes, you've got it right. Lots to see and do; you can pretty much choose you period of historical interest and find some good examples in the area.
Personally I think one of the better way to see Stonehenge is to come upon it through the landscape it occupies, rather than just turning up in a car or coach and traipsing the 50 yards to the stones themselves.
I usually visit the area, by cycling up the river valley from where I live and coming upon the stones from a secluded old drove way that for a couple of miles passes through the 'ritual' landscape within which it resides.
If you do make it to the area, I'd be more than happy to buy you a pint in one of the more historic boozers in Salisbury, or give you a 'guided' tour of part of the city.
edit:Old Sarum, the original city of the city is worth a visit, a nice compact site with quite a bit to see and good views of the city.
If I get a chance to get to the area, I'll definitely look you up. :cheers:
Quote from: alfred russel on June 27, 2012, 07:40:17 PM
If I get a chance to get to the area, I'll definitely look you up. :cheers:
He'll be over there, pissing on the tree. No, the other one.
Quote from: alfred russel on June 27, 2012, 07:40:17 PM
If I get a chance to get to the area, I'll definitely look you up. :cheers:
:cheers:
Oh I forgot to mention that the Cathedral has the best preserved of the four remaining 'original' Magna Cartas, in comparison the two in the British Library are a bit disappointing. :bowler:
What isn't my local museum? :P
Most frequent haunt would probably be the Met. :wub:
Quote from: garbon on June 27, 2012, 07:52:35 PM
What isn't my local museum? :P
Most frequent haunt would probably be the Met. :wub:
:cool:
Though if you live in one of the 'world capitals' I think it's a bit of a cheat to describe national museums as your local; when I lived in London my local ones would have included the British Museum, the V&A, The Tate etc.
Quote from: mongers on June 27, 2012, 07:55:48 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 27, 2012, 07:52:35 PM
What isn't my local museum? :P
Most frequent haunt would probably be the Met. :wub:
:cool:
Though if you live in one of the 'world capitals' I think it's a bit of a cheat to describe national museums as your local; when I lived in London my local ones would have included the British Museum, the V&A, The Tate etc.
Well alright - the Brooklyn museum is nice too.
Quote from: garbon on June 27, 2012, 07:58:07 PM
Quote from: mongers on June 27, 2012, 07:55:48 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 27, 2012, 07:52:35 PM
What isn't my local museum? :P
Most frequent haunt would probably be the Met. :wub:
:cool:
Though if you live in one of the 'world capitals' I think it's a bit of a cheat to describe national museums as your local; when I lived in London my local ones would have included the British Museum, the V&A, The Tate etc.
Well alright - the Brooklyn museum is nice too.
:hug:
Take your pick:
Naturhistorisches Museum (Museum of Art History) (http://www.khm.at/)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fe%2Fe1%2FBrueghel-tower-of-babel.jpg%2F320px-Brueghel-tower-of-babel.jpg&hash=fd953e76465e6022e1aa748b04e75f7f426307e7)
Albertina (http://www.albertina.at/)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.art-magazin.de%2Fasset%2FImage%2F_2009%2FSZENE%2Fschroeder-albertina%2Fbildstrecke%2F02-albertina-main-3_ar.jpg&hash=cb981cdc26182f1dd80f1aec30c1315d955cad7a)
MuMoK (Museum of modern art) (http://www.mumok.at/)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcache2.allpostersimages.com%2Fp%2FLRG%2F8%2F874%2F5J2J000Z%2Faffiches%2Fpicasso-pablo-femme-assise-a-l-echarpe-verte.jpg&hash=d5ae027d09e486060e56d874e087e0a94bca02a3)
Leopold Musum (http://www.leopoldmuseum.org/)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.digication.com/M6dc28f7c260cb6f5fdf9b01dc32b317d.jpg)
Schatzkammer/Treasure Chamber (http://www.wiener-schatzkammer.at/)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.staticflickr.com%2F5130%2F5262350408_1e26f2896a_z.jpg&hash=b97c5e7663abc5d2ba00b2b9372a2e9dd930c7dc)
Museum of the Teutonic Order (http://www.deutscher-orden.at/content/site/ordenshausinwien/schatzkammer/index.html)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.deutscher-orden.at%2Fartimg%2Fgallery-7-img41.jpg&hash=4a9c33835bfb9c7a10b43016f4344ac375d9f599)
Belvedere (http://www.belvedere.at/en)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnahundfrisch.vi-travel.at%2Fatvie_belvedere_klimt_der_kuss.jpg&hash=d6cb1cc5305d7a5b3836c869bd1777364748f99b)
Heeresgeschichtliches Museum (Military History Museum (http://www.hgm.or.at/)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cosmopolis.ch%2Fimages%2Fvienna%2Fwien%2FSarajevoAuto.JPG&hash=3d0075cbd902323ddae6796247771e63f6deaec9)
Museum für Völkerkunde (Ethnological Musum (http://www.ethno-museum.ac.at/)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frelevant.at%2Fsystem%2Fgalleries%2Fupload%2F3%2F0%2F4%2F62660%2F2781064073436681_BLD_Online.jpg&hash=2d470e53b6801e7e943c81242265bd59996cf194)
Jewish Museum (http://www.jmw.at/de)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.austria-lexikon.at%2Fattach%2FWissenssammlungen%2FMuseen%2FJ%25C3%25BCdisches%2520Museum%2520Wien%2FJMW_Schaudepot.jpg&hash=3d4869187a635505f8aa3fe66937483a4063e09f)
Secession (http://www.secession.at/)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cusoon.at%2Fphotos%2F1200303848%2F3e43657f-27eb-9764-3df7-fca973766126.jpg&hash=3233d8f9317f4bd43c5e11ad61b9eb21761afda3)
Naturhistorisches Museum (Museum of natural history) (http://www.nhm-wien.ac.at/)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aeiou.at%2Faeiou.encyclop.data.image.v%2Fv136200a.jpg&hash=d1f7bdf4ffd66fd2f868ee433dbd92c8f4ceae34)
Wien Muesum (city historical museum) (http://www.wienmuseum.at/)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lessing-photo.com%2Fp2%2F391603%2F39160326.jpg&hash=f3b1f52129493467d04f376e596100184569ec2d)
National Library (http://www.onb.ac.at/museen.htm)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cusoon.at%2Fphotos%2F1185888206%2Fprunksaal-der-oesterreichischen-nationalbibliothek.jpg&hash=b5f7fdf489e78f51de9bfd8d152fd7077967e787)
And more. Vienna is a compact city, so I consider them all LOCAL. :P
That was cute, Syt.
I know. :P If we go for local history, then The Wien Museum at Karlsplatz and the Jewish Museum would probably qualify. Also, the districts themselves all have small museums, too, though I've never been to one.
Quote from: Syt on June 27, 2012, 11:23:16 PM
Heeresgeschichtliches Museum (Military History Museum (http://www.hgm.or.at/)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cosmopolis.ch%2Fimages%2Fvienna%2Fwien%2FSarajevoAuto.JPG&hash=3d0075cbd902323ddae6796247771e63f6deaec9)
That was a great museum. I'd forgotten about the car when walking around and the feeling of entering that room and seing it was one of my best museum experiences. And the model of Viribus Unitis was great too.
While there are not exactly shocking artifacts or works of art or anything I love the Texas State History Museum right here by UT Campus (though they have the declaration of Texas independence and Secession and all the sorts of stuff a museum like this should have). I was so happy with how well they told the story and how they hit all the important points in just one building. There is an entire rooming just detailing the sad tale of how each major native American tribe got screwed. I know most people do not really care about Texas history, not even Texans do, but if you have even the slightest interest it is a enjoyable couple hours.
Or you go for the IMax theatre like most Texans do. :P
Quote from: Threviel on June 28, 2012, 12:50:13 AM
That was a great museum. I'd forgotten about the car when walking around and the feeling of entering that room and seing it was one of my best museum experiences. And the model of Viribus Unitis was great too.
I loved that museum and seeing that car was a shock, I did not know it was there. The most important car in world history right there in front of me.
Quote from: Threviel on June 28, 2012, 12:50:13 AM
That was a great museum. I'd forgotten about the car when walking around and the feeling of entering that room and seing it was one of my best museum experiences.
Yep, great room. Of course it's a bit morbid that they also have the sofa on which he died. And the uniform with blood stains. But that's what Viennese people do. You can also visit the Imperial Tombs (http://www.kaisergruft.at/) or the Funerary Museum (http://www.bestattungsmuseum.at/). And of course the Zentralfriedhof (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zentralfriedhof) with its 3 million "inhabitants" (almost twice as much as living people in Vienna) is an attraction in and of its own, with its honorary graves, 1900s church, large park, Jewish and Red Army sections . . .
The Vasa Museum:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa299%2FSlayhem%2FStockholm4.jpg&hash=0c44affc64b71f3d21b98ad42b41a89d6ecb3631)
Not as strictly local as the Vasa but I like the Royal Armoury:
The uniform and sword of Charles XII which he wore when he was killed.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa299%2FSlayhem%2Fkarluniform.jpg&hash=1601268cad8e6c035f181e57a874388fdcceca44)
The horse of Gustavus Adolphus, Streiff, which he rode at Lützen:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa299%2FSlayhem%2Fstreiff.jpg&hash=4c812efe28d2df3ee479206464921faadeeb0363)
The buff coat of Gustavus Adolphus which he wore at Lützen. Speaking of Vienna it was brought there after the battle and was given to Sweden after WW1 as a thank you for the efforts of the Swedish Red Cross during the war.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa299%2FSlayhem%2Fgakyller.jpg&hash=9369906bb3594ce04b6b37cb1af86a6b686d516f)
The outfit of Gustav III which he wore when he was shot by an assassin at a masked ball in 1792. He died a few weeks later. The museum also displays the assassin's mask and weapons.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa299%2FSlayhem%2Fgustav3.jpg&hash=bf2c12cf9eed1d983b8e8d4e9564fbd500c66f35)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3343%2F3484097518_c2fa4a62de.jpg&hash=e8732df8bd3f6de55a7c4bbc15554f4efb26d2b4)
It's an interesting building, but only used for exhibitions really. And about to go bankrupt.
Also: cool thread :)
I went to the Wiltshire museum twice only to find it closed both times, and I really need to get back to Vienna :(
The local museum is the Carlsberg brewery museum, not to be confused with the better and way more interesting Carlsberg Glyptotek.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.bimg.dk%2Fnode-images%2F918%2F4%2F580x362-c%2F4918741-carlsberg-bryggeri-i-valby-her-et-kig-gennem-elefantporten.jpg&hash=ce887c3648529bd867c2c35d94f1decf0b3fb613)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmw2.google.com%2Fmw-panoramio%2Fphotos%2Fmedium%2F1425368.jpg&hash=8fa19192c9fd70a18ff4bf0c45716dc6138766ff)
Quote from: The Brain on June 28, 2012, 01:23:33 AM
Not as strictly local as the Vasa but I like the Royal Armoury:
The uniform and sword of Charles XII which he wore when he was killed.
The horse of Gustavus Adolphus, Streiff, which he rode at Lützen:
The buff coat of Gustavus Adolphus which he wore at Lützen.
The outfit of Gustav III which he wore when he was shot by an assassin at a masked ball in 1792. He died a few weeks later. The museum also displays the assassin's mask and weapons.
So it's a Swedish hall of shame? ;)
For Viennese museums my favorites are probably the Schatzkammer (for its Habsburg and HRE imperial jewellery) and the Art Historical Museum (15th-17th century paintings, Egyptian and Greco-Roman collections, and the soon to be re-opened collection of sculptures/artisanhsip).
Quote from: Syt on June 28, 2012, 02:08:12 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 28, 2012, 01:23:33 AM
Not as strictly local as the Vasa but I like the Royal Armoury:
The uniform and sword of Charles XII which he wore when he was killed.
The horse of Gustavus Adolphus, Streiff, which he rode at Lützen:
The buff coat of Gustavus Adolphus which he wore at Lützen.
The outfit of Gustav III which he wore when he was shot by an assassin at a masked ball in 1792. He died a few weeks later. The museum also displays the assassin's mask and weapons.
So it's a Swedish hall of shame? ;)
OK, Auschwitz.
I think that's a Polish museum. :goodboy: Austria has Mauthausen, though.
Not strictly a museum, but at Schwedenplatz (named after where the Swedes camped in 1683, I think?) there used to be the Gestapo HQ. The house has been removed, but they left the foundations standing and turned it into a little park.
Quote from: Syt on June 27, 2012, 11:23:16 PM
Take your pick:
Naturhistorisches Museum (Museum of Art History) (http://www.khm.at/)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fe%2Fe1%2FBrueghel-tower-of-babel.jpg%2F320px-Brueghel-tower-of-babel.jpg&hash=fd953e76465e6022e1aa748b04e75f7f426307e7)
And more. Vienna is a compact city, so I consider them all LOCAL. :P
That's the Kunsthistorisches Museum :contract:
As a Parisian, it's le Louvre
über alles.
Quote from: Syt on June 28, 2012, 02:18:58 AM
I think that's a Polish museum. :goodboy: Austria has Mauthausen, though.
Not strictly a museum, but at Schwedenplatz (named after where the Swedes camped in 1683, I think?) there used to be the Gestapo HQ. The house has been removed, but they left the foundations standing and turned it into a little park.
Interesting. I looked into that and Wiki claims that it was renamed Schwedenplatz in the 1920s in honor of Swedish relief efforts after WW1.
Quote from: The Brain on June 28, 2012, 02:30:07 AM
Interesting. I looked into that and Wiki claims that it was renamed Schwedenplatz in the 1920s in honor of Swedish relief efforts after WW1.
Well, something Swedish. :P
My local museum physically is this: http://natmus.dk/besoeg-museerne/frilandsmuseet/
An outdoors muesum where they over time have gathered old buildings from around the country and rebuild them piece by piece. Mostly variations of farmhouses, mills, smithies and that sort of things. More urban city buildings have been gathered in a comparable museum in Aarhus.
I like the outdoors atmosphere there and for some reason I like the big windmills and the watermills from southern sweden (which was Danish back then)
As to favourtite museums I prefer the Louisiana, modern art, the Viking ship museum in Roskilde, both for the actual finds and for their recreations of the ships using the orginal building practises as they reinvent them
There is one museum I'd like to visit, Davids Samling, but it has been closed for renovations for a long time, only recently reopened and its not a place to take the kids. Its originally a private collection, one of the worlds largest as I understand it of islamic art works: http://www.davidmus.dk/en
V
Quote from: The Brain on June 28, 2012, 01:23:33 AM
The uniform and sword of Charles XII which he wore when he was killed.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa299%2FSlayhem%2Fkarluniform.jpg&hash=1601268cad8e6c035f181e57a874388fdcceca44)
In our local museum we have the bullet that killed him.
http://www.hkm.varberg.se/ (http://www.hkm.varberg.se/)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.23hq.com%2F448540%2F451545_d8702a82f460393b4e1674c52722ac80_large.jpg&hash=370756fb7c75f3844a963fb4a4e26c1c24fd294a)
And also Bockstensmannen, a 13th century tax collector dug out of a bog.
The Museum of London's pretty good.
Quote from: mongers on June 27, 2012, 07:34:16 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 27, 2012, 07:22:46 PM
Mongers, visiting Stonehenge is on my to dos, and I haven't done it yet because I want to spend a couple days in the area. I understand that Stonehenge itself is a letdown and kind of tourist trap, but the museums and other sites in the area (including Salisbury) are first rate.
Yes, you've got it right. Lots to see and do; you can pretty much choose you period of historical interest and find some good examples in the area.
Personally I think one of the better way to see Stonehenge is to come upon it through the landscape it occupies, rather than just turning up in a car or coach and traipsing the 50 yards to the stones themselves.
I usually visit the area, by cycling up the river valley from where I live and coming upon the stones from a secluded old drove way that for a couple of miles passes through the 'ritual' landscape within which it resides.
If you do make it to the area, I'd be more than happy to buy you a pint in one of the more historic boozers in Salisbury, or give you a 'guided' tour of part of the city.
edit:
Old Sarum, the original city of the city is worth a visit, a nice compact site with quite a bit to see and good views of the city.
Stonehenge is disappointing to a lot of visitors because it's not nearly as intact as photos of it typically suggest.
I thought Stonehenge was really amazing when I went to see it :mellow:
Obviously you weren't expecting much then :P
V
Here.....Yeah. Some rubbishy prefectural museum which I don't understand.
At home we've rather a good one: http://www.beamish.org.uk/
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.visitsunderland.com%2Fvenuepics%2FBeamish-street.jpg&hash=3d53068d673058791090806ff51380ec5102795c)
Old buildings moved to show life as it was back in the good old days. Minus the cholera.
There was a few small but really cool museums in Whitehorse.
In Edmonton?
Well there is the AGA - the Art Gallery of Alberta. It's across the street from the courthouse (which in turn is across the street from my work). I've never been inside but the building looks cool.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-t6u133WGblI%2FTYKgTtBkGhI%2FAAAAAAAAAXw%2FdHDYEhIISBw%2Fs1600%2Fart-gallery-of-alberta-gran.jpg&hash=cffedbd8431b981f4a2686b876fa75340e615b42)
The Royal Alberta Museum was/is going to go into a new site across the street (on the other side) of the courthouse, and thus right next door to my work, but now that's been put on hold.
Some excellent recommendations here. :cool:
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 28, 2012, 06:30:47 AM
I thought Stonehenge was really amazing when I went to see it :mellow:
Me too - I don't get the dissappointment. I thought it was an awesome sight. :mellow:
It was, however, not an experience that was enhanced by hippy "druids" dancing about the place. :rolleyes:
My suburb doesn't have traditional museum.
All 4 of them are children oriented. There's a Space, Biotech, Water interpretation & general museum.
Quote from: Malthus on June 28, 2012, 08:02:43 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 28, 2012, 06:30:47 AM
I thought Stonehenge was really amazing when I went to see it :mellow:
Me too - I don't get the dissappointment. I thought it was an awesome sight. :mellow:
It was, however, not an experience that was enhanced by hippy "druids" dancing about the place. :rolleyes:
I wasn't saying it was disappointing, it is pretty awesome, but the rather outdated tourist facilities and the main roads detract from it.
And that exploring the landscape surrounding it, enhances one appreciation of it; which is why the plans to build a new visitors centre away from the stone and 'hide' the main roads were so encouraging, but as of now still 20 years on nothing appears to be happening. :(
edit:
OK, there are now going to do something, starting next month; it's a more modest scheme, without tunnelling the major A303, but it should improve the site, details here:
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/daysout/properties/stonehenge/our-plans/ (http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/daysout/properties/stonehenge/our-plans/)
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/daysout/properties/stonehenge/our-plans/our-proposals/ (http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/daysout/properties/stonehenge/our-plans/our-proposals/)
They're hoping to go from this:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.english-heritage.org.uk%2Fcontent%2Fgalleries%2Fstonehenge-our-proposal%2Fcurrent-aerial-view_new.jpg&hash=b2750b8a49f83e55a36852f9af87dbf2366d116c)
To this:
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Quote from: mongers on June 28, 2012, 08:35:45 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 28, 2012, 08:02:43 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 28, 2012, 06:30:47 AM
I thought Stonehenge was really amazing when I went to see it :mellow:
Me too - I don't get the dissappointment. I thought it was an awesome sight. :mellow:
It was, however, not an experience that was enhanced by hippy "druids" dancing about the place. :rolleyes:
I wasn't saying it was disappointing, it is pretty awesome, but the rather outdated tourist facilities and the main roads detract from it.
And that exploring the landscape surrounding it, enhances one appreciation of it; which is why the plans to build a new visitors centre away from the stone and 'hide' the main roads were so encouraging, but as of now still 20 years on nothing appears to be happening. :(
edit:
OK, there are now going to do something, starting next month; it's a more modest scheme, without tunnelling the major A303, but it should improve the site, details here:
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/daysout/properties/stonehenge/our-plans/ (http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/daysout/properties/stonehenge/our-plans/)
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/daysout/properties/stonehenge/our-plans/our-proposals/ (http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/daysout/properties/stonehenge/our-plans/our-proposals/)
They're hoping to go from this:
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To this:
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Okay, gotcha - having a main road run right next to the site was perverse. WTF were the planners thinking?
I'd have loved to have the time to ramble about the landscape, which is covered with other sites within a walk, but it was not to be - my brother's wedding was the priority that trip.
I think a lot of country roads are on old rights of way or Roman roads, so I imagine it was something like that - Tess of the d'Urbervilles suggests Stonehenge was easily accessible before cars :P
But it'll be really good to see it restored to its natural environment. To be able to see how it sits in the landscape and, as you say, wander around to the other nearby henges would be great.
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 28, 2012, 10:03:07 AM
I think a lot of country roads are on old rights of way or Roman roads, so I imagine it was something like that - Tess of the d'Urbervilles suggests Stonehenge was easily accessible before cars :P
But it'll be really good to see it restored to its natural environment. To be able to see how it sits in the landscape and, as you say, wander around to the other nearby henges would be great.
In the case of these two main roads I don't think they are particularly old rights of way, I'd guess the section of the busy A303 in question is probably a relatively recent toll road in origin and there aren't any Roman roads in the immediate vicinity.
The old drove road I often use to visit the place, is probably far older, given both it's use of the landscape and the fact it doesn't appear to cut or overlay many, if any of the barrow systems in the 'ritual' landscape.
On the subject of Tess, generally all of the chalk downlands have had relatively good access and routes across them, much by virtue of drainage characteristics of the underlying rocks.
Quote from: Malthus on June 28, 2012, 09:57:39 AM
Okay, gotcha - having a main road run right next to the site was perverse. WTF were the planners thinking?
I'd have loved to have the time to ramble about the landscape, which is covered with other sites within a walk, but it was not to be - my brother's wedding was the priority that trip.
Give the motorists a nice view?
I'm having museum envy. The Ed Anger museum is awesome but it's not close enough to Cincy to call it my local musem. In Cincy itself we have a decent kids museum and a pretty good art museum. I guess the Cincinnati Museum Center is semi-notable, since it was used as the basis for the Hall of Justice on Superfriends :mellow:
Oh, and, uh, there's the creation museum over across the river :ph34r:
We have Museum in the State capital. They have letter written over a hundred years ago about pigs, an illegible message carved in the wood of a maple tree, a betamax video cassette player dating from the last century and the prize exhibit: a 1958 Desote that ancient Missourians used in settling the state.
Quote from: derspiess on June 28, 2012, 03:53:23 PM
I'm having museum envy. The Ed Anger museum is awesome but it's not close enough to Cincy to call it my local musem. In Cincy itself we have a decent kids museum and a pretty good art museum. I guess the Cincinnati Museum Center is semi-notable, since it was used as the basis for the Hall of Justice on Superfriends :mellow:
Oh, and, uh, there's the creation museum over across the river :ph34r:
Frankly, I count anything within an hour's drive as local.
Dont know where the local one is. Dont care. :P
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 28, 2012, 05:53:47 PM
Frankly, I count anything within an hour's drive as local.
Hour & a half for me :contract:
I keep wanting to take my kid to Serpent Mound but can't justify the 3 to 3.5 hours worth of driving to do so. Would be different if they had something else nearby worth doing.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2012, 04:03:50 PM
We have Museum in the State capital. They have letter written over a hundred years ago about pigs, an illegible message carved in the wood of a maple tree, a betamax video cassette player dating from the last century and the prize exhibit: a 1958 Desote that ancient Missourians used in settling the state.
It isn't in Jefferson City, or even Missouri (though it is near St. Louis), but I think Cahokia is one of the best places in the country. It seems crazy to me that what is in St. Louis gets so much publicity but a borderline worldclass site a few miles away is barely mentioned. And from what I've seen, gets few visitors.
Quote from: derspiess on June 28, 2012, 07:30:35 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 28, 2012, 05:53:47 PM
Frankly, I count anything within an hour's drive as local.
Hour & a half for me :contract:
I keep wanting to take my kid to Serpent Mound but can't justify the 3 to 3.5 hours worth of driving to do so. Would be different if they had something else nearby worth doing.
Take him to the creationist museum. It is a hoot.
Quote from: derspiess on June 28, 2012, 07:30:35 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 28, 2012, 05:53:47 PM
Frankly, I count anything within an hour's drive as local.
Hour & a half for me :contract:
I keep wanting to take my kid to Serpent Mound but can't justify the 3 to 3.5 hours worth of driving to do so. Would be different if they had something else nearby worth doing.
Wow...that's....madness. An hours travel of any sort is pushing it in my book let alone driving. That could take you into a totally different part of Britain easily.
Other fun "local" museums:
Neil armstrongs in wapokentka. Gus grissom's in Indiana. That one is a bit sad.
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 28, 2012, 09:37:35 PM
Gus grissom's in Indiana. That one is a bit sad.
He was vindicated. He knows it.
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 28, 2012, 09:37:35 PM
Other fun "local" museums:
Not only does Maryland have the largest Stars Wars toys and collectibles museum, in the same building it also houses the nation's largest contiguous Hamster Habitat (http://readersadvice.com/mmeade/hamsters/Castle.htm).
Indiana had a fruit jar museum in Muncie.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 28, 2012, 09:43:36 PM
Not only does Maryland have the largest Stars Wars toys and collectibles museum, in the same building it also houses the nation's largest contiguous Hamster Habitat (http://readersadvice.com/mmeade/hamsters/Castle.htm).
Maryland truly is one of the great centers of world culture and civilization.
In Philly it was the Mummers Museum:
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What's their slogan? "Mum's the word?"
Quote from: alfred russel on June 28, 2012, 07:47:28 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 28, 2012, 04:03:50 PM
We have Museum in the State capital. They have letter written over a hundred years ago about pigs, an illegible message carved in the wood of a maple tree, a betamax video cassette player dating from the last century and the prize exhibit: a 1958 Desote that ancient Missourians used in settling the state.
It isn't in Jefferson City, or even Missouri (though it is near St. Louis), but I think Cahokia is one of the best places in the country. It seems crazy to me that what is in St. Louis gets so much publicity but a borderline worldclass site a few miles away is barely mentioned. And from what I've seen, gets few visitors.
Cause it's a mound of dirt. I reckon hills are bit more rare in Illinois, but we lots of them here in the Ozarks.
Is there anything there besides a pile of dirt? Dorks should have done some stone carvings or something.
I have a great deal of respect for Maya, Aztec, and Inca civilizations. Indians in North America were slackers by comparison.
Quote from: Tyr on June 28, 2012, 09:22:54 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 28, 2012, 07:30:35 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 28, 2012, 05:53:47 PM
Frankly, I count anything within an hour's drive as local.
Hour & a half for me :contract:
I keep wanting to take my kid to Serpent Mound but can't justify the 3 to 3.5 hours worth of driving to do so. Would be different if they had something else nearby worth doing.
Wow...that's....madness. An hours travel of any sort is pushing it in my book let alone driving. That could take you into a totally different part of Britain easily.
Out west I've heard people call something 3 or 4 hours away as "just up the road".
Quote from: derspiess on June 28, 2012, 11:06:49 PM
Is there anything there besides a pile of dirt? Dorks should have done some stone carvings or something.
I have a great deal of respect for Maya, Aztec, and Inca civilizations. Indians in North America were slackers by comparison.
Somebody built some stairs. Those are modern though. I think there's a museum with the stuff they dug up. If you are going to build an impressive civilization you should use more then just dirt and sticks. They never should have hunted all the mammoths and horses to extinction. Such a short sighted people.
Quote from: derspiess on June 28, 2012, 11:10:23 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 28, 2012, 09:22:54 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 28, 2012, 07:30:35 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 28, 2012, 05:53:47 PM
Frankly, I count anything within an hour's drive as local.
Hour & a half for me :contract:
I keep wanting to take my kid to Serpent Mound but can't justify the 3 to 3.5 hours worth of driving to do so. Would be different if they had something else nearby worth doing.
Wow...that's....madness. An hours travel of any sort is pushing it in my book let alone driving. That could take you into a totally different part of Britain easily.
Out west I've heard people call something 3 or 4 hours away as "just up the road".
You should try living in the Yukon. We'd drive two hours for lunch, then come back. People routinely drove 24 hours to Edmonton, or 16 hours to Anchorage.
Quote from: Tyr on June 28, 2012, 03:46:49 PM
Give the motorists a nice view?
That does sound possible if the road was an early one.
Quote from: derspiess on June 28, 2012, 11:06:49 PM
Is there anything there besides a pile of dirt? Dorks should have done some stone carvings or something.
I have a great deal of respect for Maya, Aztec, and Inca civilizations. Indians in North America were slackers by comparison.
Yes, there are a number of piles of dirt.
What is impressive (to me at least) is the site is quite large: it was obviously a city supported by horticulture. You also have evidence of defensive structures (walls) and the mounds are arranged in a way that they were incorporated into the city design (for example, a large plaza is in front of the largest mound).
You won't get the impression just from Cahokia, of course, but other Mississippian sites are laid out very similarly, despite great distances (the second largest site is outside of Atlanta, the third largest is in Alabama). Native American cities, united by a common culture across a large distances and supported by agriculture with a need for city walls, moats, etc, are not the lifestyle reflected in cowboy and indian movies. I thought it was interesting and really cool, others may think otherwise.
I'm not sure it's fair to say they were united by a common culture. Anymore then Ancient Rome and Parthia were united by an ancient culture. I mean they farmed and built cities, but since they came from entirely different language groups It's likely their cultures were quite different.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 29, 2012, 11:17:07 AM
I'm not sure it's fair to say they were united by a common culture. Anymore then Ancient Rome and Parthia were united by an ancient culture. I mean they farmed and built cities, but since they came from entirely different language groups It's likely their cultures were quite different.
Maybe if you visited a few sites or read books on Mississippian culture you would have a different perspective. It seems rather bold to suggest the culture didn't exist. :)
Quote from: alfred russel on June 29, 2012, 11:25:45 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 29, 2012, 11:17:07 AM
I'm not sure it's fair to say they were united by a common culture. Anymore then Ancient Rome and Parthia were united by an ancient culture. I mean they farmed and built cities, but since they came from entirely different language groups It's likely their cultures were quite different.
Maybe if you visited a few sites or read books on Mississippian culture you would have a different perspective. It seems rather bold to suggest the culture didn't exist. :)
He could just hit up wiki. :D
Quote from: garbon on June 29, 2012, 11:32:13 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 29, 2012, 11:25:45 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 29, 2012, 11:17:07 AM
I'm not sure it's fair to say they were united by a common culture. Anymore then Ancient Rome and Parthia were united by an ancient culture. I mean they farmed and built cities, but since they came from entirely different language groups It's likely their cultures were quite different.
Maybe if you visited a few sites or read books on Mississippian culture you would have a different perspective. It seems rather bold to suggest the culture didn't exist. :)
He could just hit up wiki. :D
A (maybe interesting) story is that for a long time I wouldn't trust anything I read about precolumbian societies being in any way sophisticated attributing the claims to political correctness. When I was a kid, I was visiting a fort where they used to hold native americans. The ranger giving us a tour was giving us a very primitive impression of the people before the white man: no wheel, no writing, hunter gatherers, etc. A couple got really upset by this and tried arguing with the guide, and were asked to leave. My father explained that they were kooks pushing a PC agenda and the ranger knew what he was talking about.
What really changed my perspective is I was visiting Mexico City and my driver kept telling me to visit the pyramids at Teotihuacan. I didn't want to because I knew they were primitive and all that, but eventually I gave in. My driver was actually a really smart guy--spoke four languages and knew the ruins and culture inside out. He gave me a tour that was a bit off the tourist path, and afterwards I couldn't really deny that it was an enormous and rather advanced city for the time -- one of the largest in the world (even if it didn't have the wheel).
Derspeiss is right that Cahokia doesn't compare to Teotihuacan, but then they weren't hunter gatherer primitives either.
Quote from: alfred russel on June 29, 2012, 11:03:52 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 28, 2012, 11:06:49 PM
Is there anything there besides a pile of dirt? Dorks should have done some stone carvings or something.
I have a great deal of respect for Maya, Aztec, and Inca civilizations. Indians in North America were slackers by comparison.
Yes, there are a number of piles of dirt.
What is impressive (to me at least) is the site is quite large: it was obviously a city supported by horticulture. You also have evidence of defensive structures (walls) and the mounds are arranged in a way that they were incorporated into the city design (for example, a large plaza is in front of the largest mound).
You won't get the impression just from Cahokia, of course, but other Mississippian sites are laid out very similarly, despite great distances (the second largest site is outside of Atlanta, the third largest is in Alabama). Native American cities, united by a common culture across a large distances and supported by agriculture with a need for city walls, moats, etc, are not the lifestyle reflected in cowboy and indian movies. I thought it was interesting and really cool, others may think otherwise.
I've always been surprised by the lack of attention paid to Mississipian civilization. To this day, I'd guess that not one in a hundred people know that North America had pre-Columbian urbanization. It's more or less completely overlooked in popular culture.
Quote from: alfred russel on June 29, 2012, 11:52:58 AM
A (maybe interesting) story is that for a long time I wouldn't trust anything I read about precolumbian societies being in any way sophisticated attributing the claims to political correctness. When I was a kid, I was visiting a fort where they used to hold native americans. The ranger giving us a tour was giving us a very primitive impression of the people before the white man: no wheel, no writing, hunter gatherers, etc. A couple got really upset by this and tried arguing with the guide, and were asked to leave. My father explained that they were kooks pushing a PC agenda and the ranger knew what he was talking about.
What really changed my perspective is I was visiting Mexico City and my driver kept telling me to visit the pyramids at Teotihuacan. I didn't want to because I knew they were primitive and all that, but eventually I gave in. My driver was actually a really smart guy--spoke four languages and knew the ruins and culture inside out. He gave me a tour that was a bit off the tourist path, and afterwards I couldn't really deny that it was an enormous and rather advanced city for the time -- one of the largest in the world (even if it didn't have the wheel).
Derspeiss is right that Cahokia doesn't compare to Teotihuacan, but then they weren't hunter gatherer primitives either.
To be fair, native american cultures varied widely in terms of social complexity and civilization. Some were indeed little more than hunter-gatherers, while others built huge cities. The odd part is how little known it is that North America had some of the latter type.
Quote from: Malthus on June 29, 2012, 11:57:35 AM
To be fair, native american cultures varied widely in terms of social complexity and civilization. Some were indeed little more than hunter-gatherers, while others built huge cities. The odd part is how little known it is that North America had some of the latter type.
Absolutely. And a lot of the latter type collapsed before heavy European colonization, reverting to hunter gatherers.
I don't forget that even the Aztecs and Incas were conquered relatively easily, and throughout the Americas, European languages dominate.