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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: jimmy olsen on June 20, 2012, 08:37:20 PM

Title: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 20, 2012, 08:37:20 PM
 Talk about delusional! :lmfao:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/greek-fuhrer-vows-to-take-back-izmir-after-istanbul.aspx?pageID=238&nID=23248&NewsCatID=351
QuoteThe leader of the Greek extreme right-wing Golden Dawn party, Nikos Mihaloliakos, has promised to "take back İzmir" a week after saying his party wanted "Istanbul back."

Mihaloliakos, nicknamed the "Greek Führer," said they would take back Turkey's Black Sea region as well during a party rally yesterday in the city of Thessaloniki, daily Milliyet reported.

"We will take back Istanbul, İzmir and the Black Sea," Mihaloliakos said during the rally while addressing accusations of racism that have been directed at his party. "Yes, we are nationalists and racists. We are not hiding that."

Mihaloliakos also criticized the mayor of Thessaloniki for wanting to name a street after modern Turkey's founder, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, who was born in Thessaloniki in 1881 when the city was still under Ottoman rule.
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: Neil on June 20, 2012, 08:51:27 PM
That would be awesome.  By 'that', I of course mean the destruction of the Greek state and their re-incorporation into the national state of the Turks.
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: Valmy on June 20, 2012, 10:41:08 PM
Quote from: Neil on June 20, 2012, 08:51:27 PM
That would be awesome.  By 'that', I of course mean the destruction of the Greek state and their re-incorporation into the national state of the Turks.

The Ottoman Empire was not a national state...in fact quite the opposite.
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: Neil on June 20, 2012, 11:23:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 20, 2012, 10:41:08 PM
Quote from: Neil on June 20, 2012, 08:51:27 PM
That would be awesome.  By 'that', I of course mean the destruction of the Greek state and their re-incorporation into the national state of the Turks.

The Ottoman Empire was not a national state...in fact quite the opposite.
Turkey is, and the 'Greeks' are Turks.
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: Tonitrus on June 20, 2012, 11:24:47 PM
If the Greeks are actually Turks, then who are actually Greeks? :hmm:
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: MadImmortalMan on June 20, 2012, 11:38:48 PM
Just claim all of Pontus and Armenia.
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: HVC on June 21, 2012, 12:40:13 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on June 20, 2012, 11:24:47 PM
If the Greeks are actually Turks, then who are actually Greeks? :hmm:
no one. All that survives are Greek speaking Turks.
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 21, 2012, 12:47:09 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on June 20, 2012, 11:24:47 PM
If the Greeks are actually Turks, then who are actually Greeks? :hmm:

Piso, a Roman

Quotemade a violent speech in which he said that the latter-day Athenians had no right to identify themselves with the great Athenians of the days of Pericles, Demosthenes, Aeschylus, and Plato. The ancient Athenians had been extirpated by repeated wars and massacres and these were mere mongrels, degenerates, and the descendants of slaves. He said that any Roman who flattered them as if they were the legitimate heirs of those ancient heroes was lowering the dignity of the Roman name."
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 21, 2012, 05:26:57 AM
I first read Aegean sea but the guy still wants Trebizond/Trapezus for the link with the Komnenoi obviously.
Hurriyet being a Turkish tabloid gives it more importance than it should though.
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: The Brain on June 21, 2012, 06:44:19 AM
It's all Turk to me.
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on June 21, 2012, 07:10:45 AM
This may lead to Greek Orthodox Christian suicide bombers. 
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: Valmy on June 21, 2012, 07:46:59 AM
Quote from: Neil on June 20, 2012, 11:23:16 PM
Turkey is, and the 'Greeks' are Turks.

What if the Turks are Greeks?  After all the current Turks do not really look like Central Asians :hmm:
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: viper37 on June 21, 2012, 08:02:29 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 20, 2012, 08:37:20 PM
Talk about delusional! :lmfao:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/greek-fuhrer-vows-to-take-back-izmir-after-istanbul.aspx?pageID=238&nID=23248&NewsCatID=351
QuoteThe leader of the Greek extreme right-wing Golden Dawn party, Nikos Mihaloliakos, has promised to "take back İzmir" a week after saying his party wanted "Istanbul back."

Mihaloliakos, nicknamed the "Greek Führer," said they would take back Turkey's Black Sea region as well during a party rally yesterday in the city of Thessaloniki, daily Milliyet reported.

"We will take back Istanbul, İzmir and the Black Sea," Mihaloliakos said during the rally while addressing accusations of racism that have been directed at his party. "Yes, we are nationalists and racists. We are not hiding that."

Mihaloliakos also criticized the mayor of Thessaloniki for wanting to name a street after modern Turkey's founder, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, who was born in Thessaloniki in 1881 when the city was still under Ottoman rule.

so, he wants to recreate the Byzantine Empire?  Interesting :)
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: Queequeg on June 21, 2012, 11:12:21 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 21, 2012, 05:26:57 AM
I first read Aegean sea but the guy still wants Trebizond/Trapezus for the link with the Komnenoi obviously.

Pontos had a very large Greek minority until the end of the Ottoman Empire.  There were wide scale massacres, and the remaining population was forced either to emigrate (where they formed a majority of the urban population of Thessaloniki and Athens) or betray the faith of their fathers. 
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: The Brain on June 21, 2012, 11:14:46 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 21, 2012, 11:12:21 AM
or betray the faith of their fathers.

Start to pay taxes?
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: DGuller on June 21, 2012, 11:48:33 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 21, 2012, 11:14:46 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 21, 2012, 11:12:21 AM
or betray the faith of their fathers.

Start to pay taxes?
:XD:
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 22, 2012, 03:07:52 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on June 21, 2012, 11:12:21 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 21, 2012, 05:26:57 AM
I first read Aegean sea but the guy still wants Trebizond/Trapezus for the link with the Komnenoi obviously.

Pontos had a very large Greek minority until the end of the Ottoman Empire.  There were wide scale massacres, and the remaining population was forced either to emigrate (where they formed a majority of the urban population of Thessaloniki and Athens) or betray the faith of their fathers.

I know ;) Nowadays, the events leading to the disappearance of the Pontic Greek community are referred as a genocide (not in Turkey obviously).
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: Neil on June 22, 2012, 07:56:58 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 22, 2012, 03:07:52 AM
I know ;) Nowadays, the events leading to the disappearance of the Pontic Greek community are referred as a genocide (not in Turkey obviously).
Which has a way of lessening the impact of the word genocide.  My vote is that we only use the word genocide for actual cases of genocide, not some Greeks getting pushed out because they took the wrong side in a war.
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 22, 2012, 08:27:09 AM
Quote from: Neil on June 22, 2012, 07:56:58 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 22, 2012, 03:07:52 AM
I know ;) Nowadays, the events leading to the disappearance of the Pontic Greek community are referred as a genocide (not in Turkey obviously).
Which has a way of lessening the impact of the word genocide.  My vote is that we only use the word genocide for actual cases of genocide, not some Greeks getting pushed out because they took the wrong side in a war.

By that definition, then there was actually a genocide then because there was more than just some pushing à la "German out of Sudeten"  in 1945.
The Pontic Greeks were never evacuated or transferred unlike those in Smyrna (despite the Great Fire).
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: Neil on June 22, 2012, 08:41:14 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 22, 2012, 08:27:09 AM
Quote from: Neil on June 22, 2012, 07:56:58 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 22, 2012, 03:07:52 AM
I know ;) Nowadays, the events leading to the disappearance of the Pontic Greek community are referred as a genocide (not in Turkey obviously).
Which has a way of lessening the impact of the word genocide.  My vote is that we only use the word genocide for actual cases of genocide, not some Greeks getting pushed out because they took the wrong side in a war.
By that definition, then there was actually a genocide then because there was more than just some pushing à la "German out of Sudeten"  in 1945.
The Pontic Greeks were never evacuated or transferred unlike those in Smyrna (despite the Great Fire).
And yet they still escaped.  Population transfer is not genocide.  You can call it ethnic cleansing if you like, but not genocide.
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 22, 2012, 08:51:29 AM
Quote from: Neil on June 22, 2012, 08:41:14 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 22, 2012, 08:27:09 AM
Quote from: Neil on June 22, 2012, 07:56:58 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 22, 2012, 03:07:52 AM
I know ;) Nowadays, the events leading to the disappearance of the Pontic Greek community are referred as a genocide (not in Turkey obviously).
Which has a way of lessening the impact of the word genocide.  My vote is that we only use the word genocide for actual cases of genocide, not some Greeks getting pushed out because they took the wrong side in a war.
By that definition, then there was actually a genocide then because there was more than just some pushing à la "German out of Sudeten"  in 1945.
The Pontic Greeks were never evacuated or transferred unlike those in Smyrna (despite the Great Fire).
And yet they still escaped.  Population transfer is not genocide.  You can call it ethnic cleansing if you like, but not genocide.

The Pontic Greeks did not, the Smyrnean did. For the former it was a genocide, for the latter an ethnic cleansing as you said.
Title: Re: Greek 'Führer' vows to ‘take back İzmir' after Istanbul
Post by: Neil on June 23, 2012, 01:20:14 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 22, 2012, 08:51:29 AM
Quote from: Neil on June 22, 2012, 08:41:14 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 22, 2012, 08:27:09 AM
Quote from: Neil on June 22, 2012, 07:56:58 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 22, 2012, 03:07:52 AM
I know ;) Nowadays, the events leading to the disappearance of the Pontic Greek community are referred as a genocide (not in Turkey obviously).
Which has a way of lessening the impact of the word genocide.  My vote is that we only use the word genocide for actual cases of genocide, not some Greeks getting pushed out because they took the wrong side in a war.
By that definition, then there was actually a genocide then because there was more than just some pushing à la "German out of Sudeten"  in 1945.
The Pontic Greeks were never evacuated or transferred unlike those in Smyrna (despite the Great Fire).
And yet they still escaped.  Population transfer is not genocide.  You can call it ethnic cleansing if you like, but not genocide.
The Pontic Greeks did not, the Smyrnean did. For the former it was a genocide, for the latter an ethnic cleansing as you said.
No, there were tons of them that ended up in Greece or Russia.  It was more like the India/Pakistan exchange than the Holocaust.