Thread title and this post just to stir up people. :)
QuoteAre members of Congress dumbing down their discourse?
The Sunlight Foundation determined that Congress is talking at nearly a full grade level below the level at which members spoke seven years ago, according to its study of the Congressional Record—the official record of members' proceedings and speech. The foundation applied the Flesch-Kincaid grade level test to congressional conversations and found that today's Congress speaks "at about a 10.6 grade level, down from 11.5 in 2005," senior fellow Lee Drutman wrote in his analysis. Sunlight also found that the newest as well as the most conservative members of Congress on average speak at the lowest grade level.
Republican Rep. Mick Mulvaney of South Carolina scored lowest with a 7.9 grade level average for his speech. But he told Yahoo News Monday that although he doesn't believe anyone equates "sentence length" and the "polysyllabic nature of words" with intelligence, his ranking is something to be proud of.
"I see it as an affirmation that we're doing something right," Mulvaney said of his fellow bottom-tier representatives. "You've got to speak clearly and concisely," Mulvaney said, if you want people to know what you believe.
He noted that he and some of his fellow bottom-rankers, including Republican Reps. Rob Woodall of Georgia and Sean Duffy of Wisconsin, speak extemporaneously and don't use prepared notes. "This is a group of people who are trying to sound like ordinary people and not like politicians," Mulvaney said.
Ranking one step above Mulvaney was Woodall, then Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky, Duffy and in fifth place, Rep. Todd Akin of Missouri—all Republicans.
Leading the list as the most advanced speaker is Republican Rep. Dan Lungren of California, who speaks like a college senior. He is followed by Democratic Rep. Lucille Roybal-Allard of California, Democratic Sen. Daniel Akaka of Hawaii, Republican Rep. Jim Gerlach of Pennsylvania and Republican Rep. Tom Petri of Wisconsin. (A complete ranking of members can be found here.) (https://data.sunlightlabs.com/dataset/Members-And-Grade-Level/iwhe-qaqu)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.sunlightfoundation.com%2Fmedia%2F2012%2F05%2Ffigue-1-overtime.png&hash=5ff10acbcd05ed590fed4a4b028eec52ab04c15b)
So how to explain both the overall drop in grade level average and the conservative-heavy bottom tier?
Drutman emphasized in an interview with Yahoo News that the exact cause is difficult to determine, but the foundation's report concludes that an influx of new members is dragging down the grade level average for Congress overall. But Drutman said the results are neither good nor bad, in his opinion.
"On one hand, you might be concerned that members are speaking at a lower level," Drutman said. But he added on the other, "You might see it as just members speaking more directly to their constituents and being more accessible and plain-spoken."
Drutman noted that many public speakers, writers and others are educated on how to speak and write in simple terms to reach the widest audience.
Drutman said the shift "reflects some of the ways the institution has changed" and said the study was conducted in the "spirit of fun" and was not intended to "pass judgement."
It should be noted that the Congressional Record can be amended by members, meaning they can insert speeches they never actually issued and modify those they did issue. Drutman said he has no data to base a guess on how that may shape the grade level results overall.
Looks like Republicans spoke the most intelligently until recently when being something elite is terrible. /looks like even Dems recognized it was time to dumb down the rhetoric.
Quote from: garbon on May 21, 2012, 09:39:14 PM
Looks like Republicans spoke the most intelligently until recently when being something elite is terrible. /looks like even Dems recognized it was time to dumb down the rhetoric.
Nah, the lower Democrat scores were due to directly quoting Republicans.
Well, I think they've given up on looking smart, having decided that the lesson of the 2000 and 2004 elections is that nobody likes a smarty-pants. Instead, the Republicans seem to be focusing on convincing people that the Democrats ar snickering up their sleeves at them and think that they're better than the masses. It's sort of ironic, since most Republican legislators are looked down upon by their masters, primarily due to their idiocy.
The days of the great old Republicans like Nixon, Rockefeller, Dole and even Reagan has passed.
This is just proof that JR could never have a career in politics.
Heck quite a few languishites would fail this dumbing down to talk to the common man imperative.
Quote from: Neil on May 21, 2012, 10:48:03 PM
The days of the great old Republicans like Nixon, Rockefeller, Dole and even Reagan has passed.
Haig '88 was the last, best hope.*
At least I can say I was there at the end.
*With a brief, honorable hiccup with '00 McCain.
I am unstirred. Why is using more simplistic speech considered talking more directly to your audience and more concisely? Surely you can speak circuitously with simple words and phrases as you can with complex ones.
Quote from: garbon on May 21, 2012, 09:39:14 PM
Looks like Republicans spoke the most intelligently until recently when being something elite is terrible. /looks like even Dems recognized it was time to dumb down the rhetoric.
Looks like the fall happened around when you joined the GOP. Fancy that.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 21, 2012, 11:05:35 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 21, 2012, 09:39:14 PM
Looks like Republicans spoke the most intelligently until recently when being something elite is terrible. /looks like even Dems recognized it was time to dumb down the rhetoric.
Looks like the fall happened around when you joined the GOP. Fancy that.
True, I only went GOP in 2011 but now in 2012 we're on an uptick. :yeah:
I'm with RAz. This sort of analysis of language isn't terribly helpful, there's really very little link between long polysyllabic sentences and intelligence of content. It would mean Orwell's dumb and we should all aim for purple prose.
Quote from: garbon on May 21, 2012, 11:15:44 PM
True, I only went GOP in 2011 but now in 2012 we're on an uptick. :yeah:
Heh, gay minority said "we".
One of the worst features of modern democracy is that everyone has a vote and each vote is equal.
Quote from: Martinus on May 22, 2012, 01:05:14 AM
One of the worst features of modern democracy is that everyone has a vote and each vote is equal.
"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried." - Leonard Nimoy :D
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 22, 2012, 01:32:16 AM
"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried." - Leonard Nimoy
Did he say that while playing Winston Churchill?
Some Republicans are not terribly up to date with the more recent events either:
QuoteRep. Pitts Calls Arafat, Sharon to Come Back to the Table
Rep. Joe Pitts recently replied to a constituent's letter with a rather interesting position on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict: Yasser Arafat and Ariel Sharon need to come back to the negotiating table. There's just one problem. Arafat has been dead since 2004 and Sharon in a coma since 2006.
The out-of-date letter was posted on the blog Mondoweiss by journalist Ian Rhodewalt. His father, a resident of the 16th district, wrote a letter to Pitts in 2011. His response came last month, and included this description of Pitts' stance:
"With the global war against terrorism, it is now incumbent on Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Palestinian Authority (PA) Chairman Yasir Arafat to clamp down on Palestinian extremists that have perpetuated violence and to restart a peace process that has collapsed."
Oops.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 22, 2012, 01:32:16 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 22, 2012, 01:05:14 AM
One of the worst features of modern democracy is that everyone has a vote and each vote is equal.
"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried." - Leonard Nimoy :D
or was it Spock........ :yeahright:
2001 seems to have been a magical year of convergence.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2012, 11:28:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 21, 2012, 11:15:44 PM
True, I only went GOP in 2011 but now in 2012 we're on an uptick. :yeah:
Heh, gay minority said "we".
We can be whatever we want. :)
Quote from: The Larch on May 22, 2012, 05:47:20 AM
Some Republicans are not terribly up to date with the more recent events either:
QuoteRep. Pitts Calls Arafat, Sharon to Come Back to the Table
Rep. Joe Pitts recently replied to a constituent's letter with a rather interesting position on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict: Yasser Arafat and Ariel Sharon need to come back to the negotiating table. There's just one problem. Arafat has been dead since 2004 and Sharon in a coma since 2006.
The out-of-date letter was posted on the blog Mondoweiss by journalist Ian Rhodewalt. His father, a resident of the 16th district, wrote a letter to Pitts in 2011. His response came last month, and included this description of Pitts' stance:
"With the global war against terrorism, it is now incumbent on Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Palestinian Authority (PA) Chairman Yasir Arafat to clamp down on Palestinian extremists that have perpetuated violence and to restart a peace process that has collapsed."
Oops.
At least they're not going to walk out of negotiations this time.
It looks like post 9/11 we had our most intelligent discourse. Apparently debates on whether to nuke Mecca if terrorists come back, exclamations of "f Bin Laden" and "f Saddam", and spontaneous "USA! USA!" chants are as smart sounding as we get.
Quote from: garbon on May 22, 2012, 08:18:41 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2012, 11:28:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 21, 2012, 11:15:44 PM
True, I only went GOP in 2011 but now in 2012 we're on an uptick. :yeah:
Heh, gay minority said "we".
We can be whatever we want. :)
That's adorable. I bet the GOPtards will think so when you show up at the RNC in a sequined Speedo and feather boa to show off your GOP Pride.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 22, 2012, 08:52:52 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 22, 2012, 08:18:41 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2012, 11:28:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 21, 2012, 11:15:44 PM
True, I only went GOP in 2011 but now in 2012 we're on an uptick. :yeah:
Heh, gay minority said "we".
We can be whatever we want. :)
That's adorable. I bet the GOPtards will think so when you show up at the RNC in a sequined Speedo and feather boa to show off your GOP Pride.
I'm unlikely to appear in Florida. The humidity might make me sweat threw my chiffon. :Embarrass:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 22, 2012, 08:52:52 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 22, 2012, 08:18:41 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2012, 11:28:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 21, 2012, 11:15:44 PM
True, I only went GOP in 2011 but now in 2012 we're on an uptick. :yeah:
Heh, gay minority said "we".
We can be whatever we want. :)
That's adorable. I bet the GOPtards will think so when you show up at the RNC in a sequined Speedo and feather boa to show off your GOP Pride.
Just saw a video of some pastor in NC talking about how we should put all garbon-Americans in camps with electric fences in between rants about Obama.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 22, 2012, 09:32:10 AM
Just saw a video of some pastor in NC talking about how we should put all garbon-Americans in camps with electric fences in between rants about Obama.
Yeah, saw that one last night. Definitely raising the tolerance bar for North Carolina pastors. :lol:
I expect a deal deal of the difference is explained by geography.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 22, 2012, 10:14:29 AM
I expect a deal deal of the difference is explained by geography.
I think they just try to outdo one another on local cable access. :lol:
Latest exhibit:
Representative Daniel "This is not a scientific survey, it's a random survey" Webster.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 22, 2012, 01:34:30 PM
Latest exhibit:
Representative Daniel "This is not a scientific survey, it's a random survey" Webster.
When viewed in context, it's not stupid at all. It's downright evil and petrifying, for me personally. This gem was dropped in support of gutting the government agency that collects all sorts of statistics, and whose value is immense. It's like filth like this are actively trying to sabotage the country in every little way they can, because they figure that the more ignorant the country is, the more it's likely to benefit them politically, short term and long term.
The stupid should form their own party - they would win all the elections.
Did they all hire the same speech writers in 2001? Because that's just freaky.
Anyway, all this shows is that the grade level of the speeches has gone down. It doesn't indicate which speeches are being analyzed, so it doesn't tell us whether their own intelligence is in question, whether the conflicts in Congress have led to congressmen and congresswomen "talking down" to perceived inferior colleagues, or that this is simply an effect of greater populism on the part of congressmen and congresswomen (I suspect a 60/40 mix of the latter and the former).