Personally, I find it refreshing that Chicago PD still has the same blue riot helmets they had in '68. :lol:
From FOXNews, since their coverage is the most OMG TEH HIPPIES.
QuoteAuthorities grapple with protests, threats, website disruption at NATO summit
CHICAGO – Thousands of protesters marched Sunday outside the NATO summit on Afghanistan, as authorities scrambled to intercept alleged plots against the Chicago gathering and investigate other disruptions.
The protest Sunday afternoon, billed as the largest demonstration tied to the summit, only dealt in part with the Afghanistan war. Activists took to the streets to protest everything from climate change to the Keystone pipeline to anti-union policies.
Protesters were seen clashing with dozens of Chicago police wearing riot gear near the site of the NATO summit.
A large crowd of protesters pushed against a line of Chicago police that was six officers deep at some points. Some of the officers were striking out at the crowd with batons. Members of the crowd threw large sticks, liquids and bottles at the police. Several protesters wore bandannas over their faces.
Police were pulling individual protesters out of the crowd, handcuffing them and carrying them away by their limbs. At least one protester had blood on the left side of his head.
Chicago Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy was standing behind his officers shouting orders.
The confrontation then started to calm down, with police announcing over a loudspeaker: "Attention. Attention. This is the Chicago Police Dept. Please continue to disperse to the west."
Most protesters left the area, while a small number had been detained.
The clash came at the end of a march nearly three-hour protest march that was largely peaceful. At the end of the march, several speakers including the Rev. Jesse Jackson also asked the protesters to peacefully disperse.
Earlier in the march, dozens of protesters in black clothing surged toward a much smaller group of police, throwing objects at them.
The badly outnumbered officers fought back with truncheons, and people on both sides threw punches. As police reinforcements moved in, the pack of violent protesters fled.
That march was only one piece of the dizzying set of challenges law enforcement were dealing with as they policed the international gathering. Two more individuals were arrested over the weekend and accused of threatening the NATO conference in Chicago, bringing the total number to five. Hacker group Anonymous was also reportedly claiming responsibility for a disruption to the city of Chicago's website.
Despite the early challenges, President Obama met as scheduled Sunday with Afghan President Hamid Karzai at summit headquarters, before heading into meetings with top NATO officials on the way forward in Afghanistan.
The latest arrests and heavy police presence were used as a rallying cry by demonstrators Sunday, as lead protester Andy Thayer called on Obama to call off the cops.
"We are holding you, President Obama and Mayor (Rahm) Emanuel personally responsible for any violence," he said. "If you value the election this November, you'll tell your officers to stand down."
Prosecutors previously charged three men with planning to attack Obama's campaign headquarters, Emanuel's home and other targets. They're accused of trying to make Molotov cocktails.
Two more alleged plotters, Sebastian Senakiewicz and Mark Neiweem, have also been charged. The Cook County State's Attorney's office said in a statement Sunday that Neiweem, 28, is charged with attempted possession of explosives or incendiary devices and Sebastian Senakiewicz, 24, is charged with falsely making a terrorist threat.
Police Supt. Garry McCarthy earlier said the cases of all five individuals are connected, though a statement from the Cook County State's Attorney's office said the latest arrests merely "arose from related investigations."
"The two defendants are not charged with any involvement in the terrorist case from yesterday, and today's cases are separate matters," the statement said.
In addition, officials were investigating after the websites for the city of Chicago and its police department stopped working. A group that calls itself Anonymous posted a statement claiming to have taken the police site out of commission as the NATO summit began Sunday.
Officials have not yet confirmed whether the incident is a cyber attack.
Increasingly tense clashes Saturday night tested police, who used bicycles to barricade streets and horseback officers to coax them in different directions. Eighteen people were arrested, McCarthy said.
Organizers of Sunday's rally had initially predicted tens of thousands of protesters this weekend.
But that was when the G-8 summit also was scheduled to be in Chicago. Earlier this year, Obama moved the Group of 8 economic meeting to Camp David, the secluded retreat in rural Maryland.
Chicago kept the NATO summit, which will focus on the war in Afghanistan and other international security matters, but not the economy. That left activists with the challenge of persuading groups as diverse as teachers, nurses and union laborers to show up for the Chicago protests even though the summit's main focus doesn't align with their most heartfelt issues.
"I'm here to protest NATO, which I feel is the enforcement arm of the ruling 1 percent -- of the capitalist 1 percent," said protester John Schraufnagel, 53, who took a bus from Minneapolis to Chicago and was among the first demonstrators to gather at Grant Park Sunday.
Sunday's protest followed several, smaller demonstrations the previous two days including one peaceful march to the home of Emanuel, Obama's former chief of staff, on Saturday. But a march later that evening involving hundreds of demonstrators stretched for hours as protesters zigzagged back and forth through downtown, some decrying terrorism-related charges leveled against three young men earlier in the day.
McCarthy said police would be ready with quick but targeted arrests of any demonstrators who turn violent Sunday.
"If anything else happens, the plan is to go in and get the people who create the violent acts, take them out of the crowd and arrest them," warned McCarthy. "We're not going to charge the crowd wholesale -- that's the bottom line."
Security has been tight throughout the city. As police gathered en masse on streetcorners, near parks and key landmarks, the city's streets remained largely vacant and many downtown buildings closed.
Kill the hippies
MAYOR Rahm?
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 20, 2012, 06:09:37 PM
Kill the hippies
I'm still trying to figure out why there are so many protesters there bitching about climate change, starvation and all other sorts of bullshit that has absolutely nothing to do with a multinational military alliance based on collective security and mutual defense. :huh:
QuoteNational Nurses United, a coalition of nurses unions that held a rally earlier Friday in Chicago calling for a transaction tax on Wall Street.
WTF HAS THAT GOT TO DO WITH MULTINATIONAL COMSEC/TRANSEC VLF INTEGRATION, LADIES
Quote from: Jaron on May 20, 2012, 06:21:36 PM
MAYOR Rahm?
Not to be confused with Mola Rahm.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQNvqdowI7gRqiqhUyNCeo3jCS814He2CQdGCQeESINZnBdhbLU)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2012, 06:24:31 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 20, 2012, 06:09:37 PM
Kill the hippies
I'm still trying to figure out why there are so many protesters there bitching about climate change, starvation and all other sorts of bullshit that has absolutely nothing to do with a multinational military alliance based on collective security and mutual defense. :huh:
QuoteNational Nurses United, a coalition of nurses unions that held a rally earlier Friday in Chicago calling for a transaction tax on Wall Street.
WTF HAS THAT GOT TO DO WITH MULTINATIONAL COMSEC/TRANSEC VLF INTEGRATION, LADIES
You bolded the part that explains it. NATO is the military enforcement arm that preserves the multinational-capitalist order repressing the workers and peasants of the proletariat. Duh. :rolleyes: :P
If these guys are protesting the capitalist 1% where are those protesting the Communist 1%??
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 20, 2012, 06:27:49 PM
You bolded the part that explains it. NATO is the military enforcement arm that preserves the multinational-capitalist order repressing the workers and peasants of the proletariat. Duh. :rolleyes: :P
But that's hippie stoner talk. I simply highlighted it for its comedic value.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 20, 2012, 06:32:26 PM
If these guys are protesting the capitalist 1% where are those protesting the Communist 1%??
The guys protesting the communist 1% are inside the meeting wondering why they are still friends now that the communist 1% went away.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2012, 06:35:00 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 20, 2012, 06:27:49 PM
You bolded the part that explains it. NATO is the military enforcement arm that preserves the multinational-capitalist order repressing the workers and peasants of the proletariat. Duh. :rolleyes: :P
But that's hippie stoner talk. I simply highlighted it for its comedic value.
sigh, its stuff like this that reminds me that people are gross monstrous idiots who don't have a fucking clue what is going on. I'm amazed people who manage to think stuff like that up manage to sustain civilized life.. oh, wait, NATO protects them, the EU or US feeds and clothes them and the multinationals make their life worth living.
I'm sure the Turkish envoy is deeply impressed by the demands to remove Scott Walker.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2012, 06:24:31 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why there are so many protesters there bitching about climate change, starvation and all other sorts of bullshit that has absolutely nothing to do with a multinational military alliance based on collective security and mutual defense. :huh:
You were singing a different tune when these clowns were camping out in lower Manhattan. :lol:
Was he? I don't recall CdM endorsing the protesting of NATO in Manhattan.
I finally recognized I'd been to Zuccotti Park before. What a dreadful place for a protest.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fl1.yimg.com%2Fbt%2Fapi%2Fres%2F1.2%2FNkwJHPuU8SNwYP89qkw5Rg--%2FYXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD00NjI7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmedia.zenfs.com%2Fen_us%2FNews%2Fap_webfeeds%2Fd7c36ced332f350e100f6a7067003df4.jpg&hash=bfe445f91c57d7e716eb9fd9007508a51cfcdd12)
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 20, 2012, 07:02:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2012, 06:24:31 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why there are so many protesters there bitching about climate change, starvation and all other sorts of bullshit that has absolutely nothing to do with a multinational military alliance based on collective security and mutual defense. :huh:
You were singing a different tune when these clowns were camping out in lower Manhattan. :lol:
That's different. NATO > Wall Street.
My revolutionary brothers and sisters are barking up the wrong tree this weekend.
I mean, look at that photo Citizen K posted; WTF is a rainbow cocksucker flag doing there, and what's it got to do with NATO?
That photo needs a cluster munition opening up above their heads.
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/16/11730683-us-veterans-to-return-war-medals-in-protest?lite (http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/16/11730683-us-veterans-to-return-war-medals-in-protest?lite)
Quote from: citizen k on May 20, 2012, 07:42:52 PM
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/16/11730683-us-veterans-to-return-war-medals-in-protest?lite (http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/16/11730683-us-veterans-to-return-war-medals-in-protest?lite)
Yeah, maybe they're the only ones with a bona fide reason to be there. MAYBE.
Fuck em. Reactivate them and stop loss them to HELL.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2012, 06:24:31 PM
National Nurses United, a coalition of nurses unions that held a rally earlier Friday in Chicago calling for a transaction tax on Wall Street.
WTF HAS THAT GOT TO DO WITH MULTINATIONAL COMSEC/TRANSEC VLF INTEGRATION, LADIES
My guess would be that in part the summit provides visibility for their protests, even though NATO has little or nothing to do directly with their issues/causes.
The usual hateful malcontents.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2012, 07:37:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 20, 2012, 07:02:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2012, 06:24:31 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why there are so many protesters there bitching about climate change, starvation and all other sorts of bullshit that has absolutely nothing to do with a multinational military alliance based on collective security and mutual defense. :huh:
You were singing a different tune when these clowns were camping out in lower Manhattan. :lol:
That's different. NATO > Wall Street.
My revolutionary brothers and sisters are barking up the wrong tree this weekend.
:nelson: Gotta take the, erm, bad with the bad.
Soldiers do not have the right to give medals back. They represent recognition by the government on behalf of the people they represent. To hand that medal back is to spit in the eye of every American man, woman, and child.
Quote from: derspiess on May 20, 2012, 08:23:05 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2012, 07:37:25 PM
My revolutionary brothers and sisters are barking up the wrong tree this weekend.
:nelson: Gotta take the, erm, bad with the bad.
Don't you know it, Rush. :P
Time for the "Wood Shampoo"
Let the ass beatings comence.
Quote from: derspiess on May 20, 2012, 08:23:05 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2012, 07:37:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 20, 2012, 07:02:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2012, 06:24:31 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why there are so many protesters there bitching about climate change, starvation and all other sorts of bullshit that has absolutely nothing to do with a multinational military alliance based on collective security and mutual defense. :huh:
You were singing a different tune when these clowns were camping out in lower Manhattan. :lol:
That's different. NATO > Wall Street.
My revolutionary brothers and sisters are barking up the wrong tree this weekend.
:nelson: Gotta take the, erm, bad with the bad.
They usually do bark up the wrong tree. :lol:
Here come da pain
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/318141_389826637736689_100001280689426_1164429_365935066_n.jpg)
Aren't those the same helmets they wore when they had to crack some hippie heads in '68?
Quote from: Neil on May 20, 2012, 09:44:11 PM
Aren't those the same helmets they wore when they had to crack some hippie heads in '68?
That might sound original if it hadn't already been said by Seedster.
Quote from: garbon on May 20, 2012, 09:49:46 PM
Quote from: Neil on May 20, 2012, 09:44:11 PM
Aren't those the same helmets they wore when they had to crack some hippie heads in '68?
That might sound original if it hadn't already been said by Seedster.
Garbon, it's not polite to pick on the slow people. :lol:
Quote from: Jaron on May 20, 2012, 08:24:13 PM
Soldiers do not have the right to give medals back. They represent recognition by the government on behalf of the people they represent. To hand that medal back is to spit in the eye of every American man, woman, and child.
Hmm...depends on the circumstance.
I'd say that Hugh Thompson throwing away his Distinguished Flying Cross was justified.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2012, 07:40:29 PM
I mean, look at that photo Citizen K posted; WTF is a rainbow cocksucker flag doing there, and what's it got to do with NATO?
because that rainbowflag is also (originally?) a flag from the peace-movement (or rather the "capitulate to the enemies of civilization"-movement)
I feel reassured that the left wing has as many batshit loonatics as the right wing.
Quote from: KRonn on May 20, 2012, 08:04:44 PM
My guess would be that in part the summit provides visibility for their protests, even though NATO has little or nothing to do directly with their issues/causes.
Basically this. Also you'll always get protests where political leaders are, half of it's about making the media hear you while the other half is making your presence known to the politician. Generally I think that's a good thing. If they hear the odd shout or what have you it disrupts their otherwise seamless and air conditioned drives from x summit to y airport, which is good.
NATO basically gives the opportunity to protest the world as it is, there'l be domestic countries and all sorts of obscure groups who are protesting, I don't know, the Maltese PM. So you'll have unions, gaylords, general discontents and the odd Armenian protesting Erdogan. That's the joy of a global city I suppose. The ones you've got to worry about are the people who'll travel to some God-forsaken Baltic coast golf resort to try and protest the G8.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on May 21, 2012, 12:19:51 AMbecause that rainbowflag is also (originally?) a flag from the peace-movement (or rather the "capitulate to the enemies of civilization"-movement)
In my experience that's a very, very European thing. Here it only means the gays, in Italy it means the peace movement.
Edit: It was very disappointing actually. I thought Europe was incredibly, demonstratively gay when I first went. Then I slowly realised and it dawned on me that my bellicose fag self probably wasn't that welcome after all <_<
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 20, 2012, 11:44:28 PM
Quote from: Jaron on May 20, 2012, 08:24:13 PM
Soldiers do not have the right to give medals back. They represent recognition by the government on behalf of the people they represent. To hand that medal back is to spit in the eye of every American man, woman, and child.
Hmm...depends on the circumstance.
I'd say that Hugh Thompson throwing away his Distinguished Flying Cross was justified.
Nope, not even with him.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on May 21, 2012, 12:19:51 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2012, 07:40:29 PM
I mean, look at that photo Citizen K posted; WTF is a rainbow cocksucker flag doing there, and what's it got to do with NATO?
because that rainbowflag is also (originally?) a flag from the peace-movement (or rather the "capitulate to the enemies of civilization"-movement)
when the hippies co-opted this
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fww2today.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F07%2FChurchill_V_signjpg.jpg&hash=d61073a7b2f501798ec443d7b9af679025c51a61)
to mean peace I got pissed off. It means victory and it means killing lots and lots of germans.
It originally meant V for vikings.
Quote from: Jaron on May 21, 2012, 04:19:35 AM
It originally meant V for vikings.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.cheezburger.com%2Fcompletestore%2F2010%2F8%2F19%2F5da2a3fd-faa0-433c-a46c-28eae0042cf1.jpg&hash=780548380f7d27b765ca43814c3f94c78b3f11ef)
Da! Da! Da! Daaaaahhhhhh!!!!!!11111ononeoenoen
Hang on a second, guys. Aren't those Chicago cops in riot gear wearing the same light blue helmets they wore in 1968??
Also, is China still blocking internet searches for "Egypt"?
That sad part is the anybody with a good reason to protest NATO will be drowned out by the crazy clowns.
Quote from: Jaron on May 21, 2012, 03:55:38 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 20, 2012, 11:44:28 PM
Quote from: Jaron on May 20, 2012, 08:24:13 PM
Soldiers do not have the right to give medals back. They represent recognition by the government on behalf of the people they represent. To hand that medal back is to spit in the eye of every American man, woman, and child.
Hmm...depends on the circumstance.
I'd say that Hugh Thompson throwing away his Distinguished Flying Cross was justified.
Nope, not even with him.
:lmfao: Jaron's back
Quote from: Valmy on May 21, 2012, 09:23:51 AM
That sad part is the anybody with a good reason to protest NATO will be drowned out by the crazy clowns.
What are the good reasons to protest NATO?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2012, 07:37:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 20, 2012, 07:02:32 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2012, 06:24:31 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why there are so many protesters there bitching about climate change, starvation and all other sorts of bullshit that has absolutely nothing to do with a multinational military alliance based on collective security and mutual defense. :huh:
You were singing a different tune when these clowns were camping out in lower Manhattan. :lol:
That's different. NATO > Wall Street.
My revolutionary brothers and sisters are barking up the wrong tree this weekend.
What you just don't get is that the motivation for both is exactly the same.
The people who engage in most of this crap do not differentiate between NATO and Wall Street. Or the E8, or the UN, or the Marines. Is it all one and the same, because 99% of them are not motivated by any rational ideology.
Just like you are not motivated by any rational ideology. You say NATO > Wall Street, some other random radinutbar says the G8 > Nato > Wall Street, or Wall Street > G8> Nato >UN. You can just roll the dice - none of it is driven by anything rational.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 21, 2012, 09:49:59 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 21, 2012, 09:23:51 AM
That sad part is the anybody with a good reason to protest NATO will be drowned out by the crazy clowns.
What are the good reasons to protest NATO?
Standardizing on the wrong handgun caliber :angry:
Quote from: Berkut on May 21, 2012, 10:17:58 AM
The people who engage in most of this crap do not differentiate between NATO and Wall Street. Or the E8, or the UN, or the Marines. Is it all one and the same, because 99% of them are not motivated by any rational ideology.
Just like you are not motivated by any rational ideology. You say NATO > Wall Street, some other random radinutbar says the G8 > Nato > Wall Street, or Wall Street > G8> Nato >UN. You can just roll the dice - none of it is driven by anything rational.
While I don't agree with him on a lot of things, CdM has rational and distinct economic and foreign policy views.
:lol: No argument on distinct.
Quote from: Berkut on May 21, 2012, 10:17:58 AM
Just like you are not motivated by any rational ideology. You say NATO > Wall Street, some other random radinutbar says the G8 > Nato > Wall Street, or Wall Street > G8> Nato >UN. You can just roll the dice - none of it is driven by anything rational.
No one's motivated by a rational ideology and most of the people who are are extreme. We have instincts and biases that we reason from after the fact. Normally the radicals are both the most obviously disconnected from any real thought process and the people who most often insist it's all clearly rational if you just listen to them.
Having said that I do find the anti-G8 feeling kind of understandable, though for totally different reasons, I just don't understand what the G8's ever done. Maybe the G7 did stuff before they invited the Russians in but it just looks like a really needless and expensive conference. We'd be better off if all the countries just chipped in and sent all the PMs and Presidents for a weekend at Davos.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 21, 2012, 10:41:15 AM
Having said that I do find the anti-G8 feeling kind of understandable, though for totally different reasons, I just don't understand what the G8's ever done. Maybe the G7 did stuff before they invited the Russians in but it just looks like a really needless and expensive conference. We'd be better off if all the countries just chipped in and sent all the PMs and Presidents for a weekend at Davos.
I'm baffled what is wrong with the leaders of the worlds most influential economies meeting and working together to prevent depressions?
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to ask you explain yourself on that one.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 21, 2012, 10:41:15 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 21, 2012, 10:17:58 AM
Just like you are not motivated by any rational ideology. You say NATO > Wall Street, some other random radinutbar says the G8 > Nato > Wall Street, or Wall Street > G8> Nato >UN. You can just roll the dice - none of it is driven by anything rational.
No one's motivated by a rational ideology and most of the people who are are extreme.
I call bullshit.
Unprovable hypothesis.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 21, 2012, 10:30:42 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 21, 2012, 10:17:58 AM
The people who engage in most of this crap do not differentiate between NATO and Wall Street. Or the E8, or the UN, or the Marines. Is it all one and the same, because 99% of them are not motivated by any rational ideology.
Just like you are not motivated by any rational ideology. You say NATO > Wall Street, some other random radinutbar says the G8 > Nato > Wall Street, or Wall Street > G8> Nato >UN. You can just roll the dice - none of it is driven by anything rational.
While I don't agree with him on a lot of things, CdM has rational and distinct economic and foreign policy views.
Not really. His economic views are completely irrational. They just amount to knee jerk "Stick it to The Man!".
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 21, 2012, 10:41:15 AM
Having said that I do find the anti-G8 feeling kind of understandable, though for totally different reasons, I just don't understand what the G8's ever done. Maybe the G7 did stuff before they invited the Russians in but it just looks like a really needless and expensive conference. We'd be better off if all the countries just chipped in and sent all the PMs and Presidents for a weekend at Davos.
Would we? It's important to remember that most countries don't matter.
I wonder what is rational.
Quote from: Viking on May 21, 2012, 10:55:34 AM
I'm baffled what is wrong with the leaders of the worlds most influential economies meeting and working together to prevent depressions?
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to ask you explain yourself on that one.
Well it didn't work terribly well at preventing the last recession. Nowadays the world's most influential economies include China, India and Brazil as much as Canada and Italy. They can of course work together without a big expensive summit every year. And I don't object to that. But with the possible exception of Blair and partial ending of African debt I can't think of a single thing the G8 has achieved and, unlike NATO, or the UN, or the EU it doesn't have even a purpose. It's just there.
QuoteWould we? It's important to remember that most countries don't matter.
I meant of the G8.
QuoteI call bullshit.
Unprovable hypothesis.
That's fair. I've never experienced it myself or met anyone who I thought was rationally ideological. But I still think a person with a rational coherent ideology's most likely a fundamentalist or a Trot. It's not the way we're made.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 21, 2012, 09:49:59 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 21, 2012, 09:23:51 AM
That sad part is the anybody with a good reason to protest NATO will be drowned out by the crazy clowns.
What are the good reasons to protest NATO?
Things related to NATO policies.
Quote from: Berkut on May 21, 2012, 11:00:00 AM
Not really. His economic views are completely irrational. They just amount to knee jerk "Stick it to The Man!".
Oh, bullshit. I don't want to "Stick it to the Man", I want to "Stick it to The Man, and Put Said Man's Head on a Stick London Bridge-Style As An Example To His Buddies".
My psuedo-Keynesian tendencies just happen to get overshadowed with my preference for an emphasis on regulation with a Gestapo flair, s'all.
Why you Free Market-types insist on trusting a methodology run by individuals whose basic premises are built upon and promoted by greed without consequence is rather disconcerting. It is devoid of all
ethos, and I have a problem with that. Wall Street needs more Jesuits.
And you know where I stand on taxes.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 21, 2012, 11:20:16 AM
Well it didn't work terribly well at preventing the last recession. Nowadays the world's most influential economies include China, India and Brazil as much as Canada and Italy. They can of course work together without a big expensive summit every year. And I don't object to that. But with the possible exception of Blair and partial ending of African debt I can't think of a single thing the G8 has achieved and, unlike NATO, or the UN, or the EU it doesn't have even a purpose. It's just there.
It didn't work perfectly so you are against it?
1. The G7/8/20 is the relevant governments of the world trying to stop recessions and depressions. Nobody else is doing it. If there was no G7/8/20 then we would have to invent it or repeat the great depression.
2. China, India and Brazil are in the G20 which has basically replaced the G7 for world economy issues. The G7/8 still exists becaue these are the countries which are the bulk of the world marketplace and are free and open economies.
3. The G7 has either saved or been the only group trying to save the world economy from recession/depression since the 1970s. Only in the most recent difficulties when China and Indias cash reserves were needed was anybody else of any use.
The G7/8/20 is the forum for the worlds large economies to discuss issue of trade, currencies and exchange rates. It is the economic equivalent of the UN security council only with everybody having a veto (joint communiqués etc.). They are not there to solve the worlds problems they are there to agree how long contry X can manipulate it's currency/tolls/regulations before the other countries retaliate and simlar issues. We don't have depressions in the west anymore, that is what the G7 (along with the IMF) have done for you lately.
Most of the anti-G7 protests are of the kind "I'm angry that you didn't resolve my irresolvable pet issue that you were not set up to resolve to begin with." It is about keeping the world economy ticking over and that is what it does.
Quote from: Viking on May 21, 2012, 11:50:26 AM
It didn't work perfectly so you are against it?
No. It doesn't do anything so I'm against the cost and hassle of these annual summits. As I say have a G8 weekend at Davos. Plus they could get businessmen from their countries down there too and it may do something productive.
You pick up on the G7/8/20 which I think indicates precisely its usefulness. It was the G7 then they decided to add Russia, just because Clinton fancied making a gesture. Now the focus is on the G20 because that includes countries in the developing world. If this was really a body that did anything, or could do anything, like an economic UNSC with everyone having a veto I don't think there'd be such casual expansion. No one would invite, as often happens, other countries to join in. Kirchner was at the last meeting, Herman van Rompuy is there every time. The economic security council, it ain't.
The bodies that matter, incidentally, in helping the world economy keep going are the IMF and the WTO far more than the G8. In terms of the free and open economies I'd say the OECD's got more claim to a leadership role. If it weren't for Russia, then perhaps, at a push, you could see the G8 as a SC for the OECD. Not least because the IMF, OECD and WTO are institutions with all that implies, rather than a summit on a golf course with a joint communique.
Also the G8 doesn't even have an exclusively economic function. The host gets to pick the agenda of what they'll work on. Blair, for example, chose climate change and Africa.
SHelf, your argument against the G8 is simply that it doesn't work.
I don't think tens of thousands of people protest the G8 meetings because they are pissed off that it is not effective enough.
I suppose protesting a NATO summit is a perfectly rational act if your aim is to express your views on various issues to high ranking government officials of various Western Countries and the public at large.
Quote from: Berkut on May 21, 2012, 12:14:31 PM
SHelf, your argument against the G8 is simply that it doesn't work.
I don't think tens of thousands of people protest the G8 meetings because they are pissed off that it is not effective enough.
You're right, but I don't think it does anything. Which is different from it not working. The UN High Commission on Human Rights doesn't work, but it does do stuff sometimes it's even useful and you can address how its actions succeed, or not, against its goals.
But G8 summits are a way of protesting the world's richest countries. Convenient really. That may be the best contribution they make. I sympathise with anti-G8 feeling, that doesn't mean it's for the same reasons
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2012, 11:38:35 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 21, 2012, 11:00:00 AM
Not really. His economic views are completely irrational. They just amount to knee jerk "Stick it to The Man!".
Oh, bullshit. I don't want to "Stick it to the Man", I want to "Stick it to The Man, and Put Said Man's Head on a Stick London Bridge-Style As An Example To His Buddies".
My psuedo-Keynesian tendencies just happen to get overshadowed with my preference for an emphasis on regulation with a Gestapo flair, s'all.
Why you Free Market-types insist on trusting a methodology run by individuals whose basic premises are built upon and promoted by greed without consequence is rather disconcerting. It is devoid of all ethos, and I have a problem with that. Wall Street needs more Jesuits.
And you know where I stand on taxes.
That's nothing. If I understand it correctly, the market types don't trust methodology. Or at least ones that use mathematical models or statistics. I believe they argue that testing their theories is essentially impossible. It's sort of like creationism economics.
Yes, on Wall Street. I don't think speaking in tongues will impress the share holders.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 21, 2012, 12:26:26 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2012, 11:38:35 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 21, 2012, 11:00:00 AM
Not really. His economic views are completely irrational. They just amount to knee jerk "Stick it to The Man!".
Oh, bullshit. I don't want to "Stick it to the Man", I want to "Stick it to The Man, and Put Said Man's Head on a Stick London Bridge-Style As An Example To His Buddies".
My psuedo-Keynesian tendencies just happen to get overshadowed with my preference for an emphasis on regulation with a Gestapo flair, s'all.
Why you Free Market-types insist on trusting a methodology run by individuals whose basic premises are built upon and promoted by greed without consequence is rather disconcerting. It is devoid of all ethos, and I have a problem with that. Wall Street needs more Jesuits.
And you know where I stand on taxes.
That's nothing. If I understand it correctly, the market types don't trust methodology. Or at least ones that use mathematical models or statistics. I believe they argue that testing their theories is essentially impossible. It's sort of like creationism economics.
The market types don't trust them entirely because they've set the system up to be panic-based.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 21, 2012, 12:28:28 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 21, 2012, 12:28:01 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 21, 2012, 11:38:35 AM
Wall Street needs more Jesuits.
:bleeding:
Better then snake handlers.
Despiess' and the rest of the Languish GOPtards' idea of what Wall Street should be is a kindergarten with no teacher. Let everybody just draw on the walls and shit everywhere, with no oversight.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 21, 2012, 01:03:14 PM
Yes, on Wall Street. I don't think speaking in tongues will impress the share holders.
I doubt Jesuits' views on economics would take companies very far, either.
There are times when the G8 absolutely does work. I'll give you one.
In the wake of the Japan quake and tsunami, the Japanese government had to roll out a massive rebuilding program which required them to roll the printers on yen. The yen would have crashed, but the G8 organized a massive attack on the yen with coordinated buying to prop it up in the international markets as an aid to Japan during the emergency and to keep the markets stable. Christine Lagarde made her name organizing the operation.
Quote from: derspiess on May 21, 2012, 01:55:19 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 21, 2012, 01:03:14 PM
Yes, on Wall Street. I don't think speaking in tongues will impress the share holders.
I doubt Jesuits' views on economics would take companies very far, either.
They do well enough secretly ruling the world.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on May 21, 2012, 03:01:57 PM
There are times when the G8 absolutely does work. I'll give you one.
In the wake of the Japan quake and tsunami, the Japanese government had to roll out a massive rebuilding program which required them to roll the printers on yen. The yen would have crashed, but the G8 organized a massive attack on the yen with coordinated buying to prop it up in the international markets as an aid to Japan during the emergency and to keep the markets stable. Christine Lagarde made her name organizing the operation.
To which a hipster would reply 'What about Palestine?'
NEXT!
(https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/577738_390283331024353_100001280689426_1165804_1664087150_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/149438_390283264357693_100001280689426_1165803_1315481490_n.jpg)
GET SOME
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/156202_390282847691068_100001280689426_1165789_830355877_n.jpg)
Oooooooo nice booty in the pink, on the left.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/547448_390283097691043_100001280689426_1165791_502621660_n.jpg)
Hee, the people in our Chicago office were 'working from home' today because of that shit.
Quote from: Caliga on May 21, 2012, 07:37:08 PM
Hee, the people in our Chicago office were 'working from home' today because of that shit.
One of my clients was doing the same.
Just realized I'm flying through Chicago tomorrow, not that any of this mess should affect the airport. And it's not like you'd be able to tell any impact if there actually was any.
Are those blue helmets the same ones they wore back when they still beat up hippies?
Quote from: Jaron on May 21, 2012, 07:52:07 PM
Are those blue helmets the same ones they wore back when they still beat up hippies?
Good question.
Quote from: Jaron on May 21, 2012, 07:52:07 PM
Are those blue helmets the same ones they wore back when they still beat up hippies?
I think they are.
Quote from: derspiess on May 21, 2012, 07:49:34 PM
Just realized I'm flying through Chicago tomorrow, not that any of this mess should affect the airport. And it's not like you'd be able to tell any impact if there actually was any.
Say hello to any Occupodpersons you meet! ;)
Quote from: KRonn on May 21, 2012, 08:53:29 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 21, 2012, 07:49:34 PM
Just realized I'm flying through Chicago tomorrow, not that any of this mess should affect the airport. And it's not like you'd be able to tell any impact if there actually was any.
Say hello to any Occupodpersons you meet! ;)
If I see any I'll mock them for betraying TEH PLANET by flying on a plane.
Quote from: derspiess on May 21, 2012, 08:55:50 PM
Quote from: KRonn on May 21, 2012, 08:53:29 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 21, 2012, 07:49:34 PM
Just realized I'm flying through Chicago tomorrow, not that any of this mess should affect the airport. And it's not like you'd be able to tell any impact if there actually was any.
Say hello to any Occupodpersons you meet! ;)
If I see any I'll mock them for betraying TEH PLANET by flying on a plane.
:D
Have fun storming the Occu-Castle!!
Quote from: Razgovory on May 21, 2012, 12:26:26 PM
That's nothing. If I understand it correctly, the market types don't trust methodology. Or at least ones that use mathematical models or statistics. I believe they argue that testing their theories is essentially impossible. It's sort of like creationism economics.
WTF are you talking about? :wacko:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 21, 2012, 09:30:05 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 21, 2012, 12:26:26 PM
That's nothing. If I understand it correctly, the market types don't trust methodology. Or at least ones that use mathematical models or statistics. I believe they argue that testing their theories is essentially impossible. It's sort of like creationism economics.
WTF are you talking about? :wacko:
He dont know.
Dirty, smelly Hippies.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/246519_390283411024345_100001280689426_1165805_1276135632_n.jpg)
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on May 21, 2012, 03:01:57 PM
In the wake of the Japan quake and tsunami, the Japanese government had to roll out a massive rebuilding program which required them to roll the printers on yen. The yen would have crashed, but the G8 organized a massive attack on the yen with coordinated buying to prop it up in the international markets as an aid to Japan during the emergency and to keep the markets stable. Christine Lagarde made her name organizing the operation.
Christine Lagarde was pretty known and well-regarded before then, she'd been a leader in the Euro debt crisis for a year and was often called the best Finance Minister in Europe. Also that was organised by the G8 Central Banks, who don't have an annual summit and aren't the political leaders, though I'm sure they were involved. I think the Fed, BofE, BofJ and ECB would have intervened in a coordinated way anyway as they did during the financial crisis. Again the usefulness of the G8 is apparently something that wasn't decided by them and didn't require a summit. In that sense I think G8 is, at best, a useful shorthand for those countries. But that's all it is, that a part of the G8 countries cooperate doesn't mean they cooperate because they have an annual summit.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 21, 2012, 09:30:05 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 21, 2012, 12:26:26 PM
That's nothing. If I understand it correctly, the market types don't trust methodology. Or at least ones that use mathematical models or statistics. I believe they argue that testing their theories is essentially impossible. It's sort of like creationism economics.
WTF are you talking about? :wacko:
Austrian school.