Good. :)
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/16/11720480-hawaii-first-state-to-ban-plastic-bags-at-checkout?lite
QuoteHawaii first state to ban plastic bags at checkout
By Miguel Llanos, msnbc.com
By now, it's hardly news when a city bans plastic bags at checkout counters -- but an entire state? That's happened in Hawaii, where Honolulu County has joined the state's three other counties to give Hawaii a first-in-the-nation title.
"Passing the bans did take an effort -- change always does -- but people seemed to understand the need for such an effort," Robert Harris, director of the Sierra Club's Hawaii chapter, told msnbc.com of the two-year campaign across the islands.
The Honolulu County Council approved the ban late last month and Honolulu Mayor Peter Carlisle, who is also the county executive, initially held back his support, saying he wanted to collect more public input due to enforcement and cost concerns.
But when he signed the ban on Thursday, Carlisle was fully committed, especially since retailers were given three years to comply.
"This is groundbreaking. By signing this environmentally friendly bill, Honolulu joined our neighbor island counties," Carlisle said. "Hawaii has become the only state in the United States where every county has plastic bag legislation."
The county law bans non-biodegradable plastic bags at checkout as well as paper bags that are not at least 40 percent recycled. Retailers in Honolulu County have until July 1, 2015, to make the change.
That date "gives us plenty of time to get ready," Carlisle told msnbc.com. "Retailers will be able to use up their inventory of bags and make arrangements to educate the public on the importance of bringing their own bag."
Kauai and Maui counties already enforce bans, while Hawaii County's ban takes effect on Jan. 17, 2013.
The Sierra Club organized rallies to support the bans, said Harris. "We also lobbied extensively for statewide legislation, which failed, but it helped direct attention to the issue and eventually got the last county to take action."
"Being a marine state, perhaps, we are exposed more directly to the impacts of plastic pollution and the damage it does to our environment," Harris said in explaining the support in all four counties. "People in Hawaii are more likely to be in the water or in the outdoors and see the modern day tumbleweed -- plastic bags -- in the environment."
Getting shoppers to switch to reusable bags is another matter.
Island supermarkets, which said they would prefer to charge a nickel or dime for plastic bags rather than live with a ban, argued that most shoppers have shifted to paper bags, which have their own environmental impact and increase store costs.
The Surfrider Foundation, which also lobbied for the bans as part of its mission to protect beaches and oceans, acknowledged the challenge ahead.
"While we are excited that the plastic bag bans have been enacted, there has been a reported increase in paper bag use from locals," Bill Hickman, the nonprofit's point man in Hawaii for plastics, said in a blogpost Monday. He added that his group might even lobby for a fee on paper bags at some point.
The state-level legislation, which would have charged users 10 cents per plastic bag, died a quiet death earlier this month, just two weeks after being introduced. A statewide ban also recently failed in California, noted Harris.
Ted Duboise, publisher of PlasticBagBanReport.com, said he doesn't think any state is close to a ban enforced at the state level. "Too much political hem haw," he told msnbc.com.
As for a national ban, don't hold your breath, said Duboise, citing "labor, lobbyist and plastic industry interests."
Still, the number of areas with bans or bag fees has grown across the U.S. and the globe. Dozens of areas on every continent but Antarctica are listed on an interactive map at PlasticBagBanReport.com.
So is the lesson here that it's easier to get bans at the local level?
"In Hawaii, yes," said Harris. "And looking to the mainland, I would suspect the same."
But those small plastic bags are so useful. :(
Poor plastics. :(
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 16, 2012, 06:25:19 PM
But those small plastic bags are so useful. :(
Only for kitty litter and picking up dog shit.
And don't give me any "I use them when I bring my lunch to work" bullshit. They still make brown paper bags. Or do what I do, use a lunch box. :smarty:
Kitty litter scoopin' is why I don't bring re-usable backs.
My Kentucky luggage. :cry:
Good. Let's start clear-cutting old growth forest to make paper bags.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 16, 2012, 06:25:19 PM
But those small plastic bags are so useful. :(
Agreed. I use them for garbage and other handy uses. If they ban them, people can just use more of the store bought small plastic trash bags instead.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 16, 2012, 06:35:40 PM
Only for kitty litter and picking up dog shit.
And don't give me any "I use them when I bring my lunch to work" bullshit. They still make brown paper bags. Or do what I do, use a lunch box. :smarty:
Kitty litter, soda cans and occasionally for cleaning out the car.
So they are gonna force people to bring their own bags or they gonna use paper and fuck up the forests some more?
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 16, 2012, 07:14:53 PM
So they are gonna force people to bring their own bags or they gonna use paper and fuck up the forests some more?
I use the reuseable bags the supermarket sells. They're a lot stronger, hold more, and are much easier to use.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 16, 2012, 06:39:14 PM
My Kentucky luggage. :cry:
No more plastic bags for Hawaii just means more for the rest of us. :)
If plastic bags are outlawed, only outlaws will have plastic bags!!! :ph34r:
Portland banned plastic bags and, IIRC made a $.05-.10 fee on paper.
Quote from: KRonn on May 16, 2012, 07:22:46 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 16, 2012, 07:14:53 PM
So they are gonna force people to bring their own bags or they gonna use paper and fuck up the forests some more?
I use the reuseable bags the supermarket sells. They're a lot stronger, hold more, and are much easier to use.
Agreed, my reusable bag is much better for grocery shopping.
Though the little plastic bags are the perfect size for the bathroom wastebasket.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 16, 2012, 06:35:40 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 16, 2012, 06:25:19 PM
But those small plastic bags are so useful. :(
Only for kitty litter and picking up dog shit.
But they are way useful for that.
You just gotta check for holes. <_<
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 16, 2012, 07:14:53 PM
So they are gonna force people to bring their own bags or they gonna use paper and fuck up the forests some more?
At least you can reforest; you can't replastic. You see the size of the Great Pacific Garbage Patch lately? Twice the size of fucking Texas. And there ain't no trees trunks floating there.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 16, 2012, 07:14:42 PM
and occasionally for cleaning out the car.
This...is true.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 16, 2012, 06:35:40 PM
And don't give me any "I use them when I bring my lunch to work" bullshit.
:showoff:
Quote from: Caliga on May 17, 2012, 06:44:40 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 16, 2012, 06:35:40 PM
And don't give me any "I use them when I bring my lunch to work" bullshit.
:showoff:
Pfft, gay. People who haul their shit in plastic bags looks like homeless monkeys.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 16, 2012, 06:38:17 PM
Kitty litter scoopin' is why I don't bring re-usable backs.
You throw your back out every time you scoop? Yikes. :pinch:
Clearly this is a conspiracy by the bin bag makers.
Quote from: DGuller on May 17, 2012, 06:48:52 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 16, 2012, 06:38:17 PM
Kitty litter scoopin' is why I don't bring re-usable backs.
You throw your back out every time you scoop? Yikes. :pinch:
I know it's wrong but I can't stop myself. I'm addicted to physical therapy.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 17, 2012, 06:33:09 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 16, 2012, 07:14:53 PM
So they are gonna force people to bring their own bags or they gonna use paper and fuck up the forests some more?
At least you can reforest; you can't replastic. You see the size of the Great Pacific Garbage Patch lately? Twice the size of fucking Texas. And there ain't no trees trunks floating there.
Ugh, didn't know about this 'till now.
Fucking horrible. :bleeding:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_Garbage_Patch
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 17, 2012, 07:37:00 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 17, 2012, 06:33:09 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 16, 2012, 07:14:53 PM
So they are gonna force people to bring their own bags or they gonna use paper and fuck up the forests some more?
At least you can reforest; you can't replastic. You see the size of the Great Pacific Garbage Patch lately? Twice the size of fucking Texas. And there ain't no trees trunks floating there.
Ugh, didn't know about this 'till now.
Fucking horrible. :bleeding:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_Garbage_Patch
Its been in the news for years dude.
At worst this is gesture politics, at best a very marginal issue; even bottled designer water has a magnitude or two more waste involved in its sale and distribution than this.
Quote from: mongers on May 17, 2012, 08:39:49 AM
At worst this is gesture politics, at best a very marginal issue; even bottled designer water has a magnitude or two more waste involved in its sale and distribution than this.
I guess it gets people to think about the issues more since it actually hits them directly in everyday life? Or something like that.
Though I wouldn't say "Even bottled water". Bottled water is horrific stuff for the environment.
Quote from: Tyr on May 17, 2012, 09:05:26 AM
Bottled water is horrific stuff for the environment.
Not so much the water as the bottles.
I don't get the bottled water thing. A lot of it comes out of municipal water supply - tap water in other words. Unless the local water sucks completely you may as well just buy one bottle and refill it over and over from the town tap.
Quote from: mongers on May 17, 2012, 08:39:49 AM
At worst this is gesture politics, at best a very marginal issue; even bottled designer water has a magnitude or two more waste involved in its sale and distribution than this.
:lol: This could be said about pretty much every issue.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 17, 2012, 10:08:17 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 17, 2012, 09:05:26 AM
Bottled water is horrific stuff for the environment.
Not so much the water as the bottles.
Bottled water bottle aren't as harmful to the economy as plastic grocery bags, though. They are much more likely to get recycled, and even if not recycled, less likely to fuck up the animal life in the environment in which they are left.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XijqRo180fw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XijqRo180fw)
What would Mother Earth say?! :cry:
Quote from: grumbler on May 17, 2012, 10:40:05 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 17, 2012, 10:08:17 AM
Quote from: Tyr on May 17, 2012, 09:05:26 AM
Bottled water is horrific stuff for the environment.
Not so much the water as the bottles.
Bottled water bottle aren't as harmful to the economy as plastic grocery bags, though. They are much more likely to get recycled, and even if not recycled, less likely to fuck up the animal life in the environment in which they are left.
I believe the bottles can be shredded, processed, and used to make carpeting and such.
Well, at least they're not strangling waterfowl like the old six-pack rings.
Then again, if a duck is choking himself out with with a water bottle around his neck, well, that's a pretty retarded duck.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 17, 2012, 10:41:31 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XijqRo180fw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XijqRo180fw)
What would Mother Earth say?! :cry:
She's probably horrified and offended that Bette Midler got cast to play her.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 17, 2012, 10:42:03 AM
I believe the bottles can be shredded, processed, and used to make carpeting and such.
Plastic bags can be recycled as well, but one doesn't find the recycling containers for bags as common as those for bottles.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 17, 2012, 10:42:03 AM
I believe the bottles can be shredded, processed, and used to make carpeting and such.
Or my cell phones- a couple of ones I've had over the last couple of years: Motorola W233 Renew (http://reviews.cnet.com/cell-phones/motorola-renew-w233-t/4505-6454_7-33485041.html), Motorola Citrus (http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/motorola-citrus-verizon-wireless/4505-6452_7-34192007.html)
Or clothing.
Quote from: mongers on May 17, 2012, 08:39:49 AM
At worst this is gesture politics, at best a very marginal issue; even bottled designer water has a magnitude or two more waste involved in its sale and distribution than this.
It's not marginal at all. Plastic bags are amongst the most quoted items in beach cleanup campaigns all over the world.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 17, 2012, 08:19:00 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 17, 2012, 07:37:00 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 17, 2012, 06:33:09 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 16, 2012, 07:14:53 PM
So they are gonna force people to bring their own bags or they gonna use paper and fuck up the forests some more?
At least you can reforest; you can't replastic. You see the size of the Great Pacific Garbage Patch lately? Twice the size of fucking Texas. And there ain't no trees trunks floating there.
Ugh, didn't know about this 'till now.
Fucking horrible. :bleeding:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_Garbage_Patch
Its been in the news for years dude.
Yup, it's been floating around (pun intended) for the last five years or so, even if the first reports regarding garbage patches come from the 70s.
Btw, it's not random that Hawaii is amongst the pioneers on action regarding marine litter, as it already has a tradition on awareness on the issue due to being right in the middle of the Great Pacific Garbage Patch. Some beaches there get regularly drowned by debris from there, check for instance Kamilo Beach:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamilo_Beach (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamilo_Beach)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Ff%2Ff9%2FKamilo_Beach2_Courtesy_Algalita_dot_org.jpg&hash=8ab43a579fd2bd2fdb3a485a561fddf1d6ae274f)
It was no wonder that Honolulu was the place where the global plastic industry made a formal declaration last year to search for solutions for the issue:
http://www.plasticseurope.org/documents/document/20111215093052-2011_12_13_joint_declaration_marine_litter.pdf (http://www.plasticseurope.org/documents/document/20111215093052-2011_12_13_joint_declaration_marine_litter.pdf)
I want to know why this garbage patch hasn't been annexed yet and resettled with Mexicans.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 17, 2012, 07:29:05 PM
I want to know why this garbage patch hasn't been annexed yet and resettled with Mexicans.
It's not really suitable for colonization. :p
Quote from: The Larch on May 17, 2012, 07:30:25 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 17, 2012, 07:29:05 PM
I want to know why this garbage patch hasn't been annexed yet and resettled with Mexicans.
It's not really suitable for colonization. :p
After the Mexicans get dumped on it, it would be the garbage and oil patch.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 17, 2012, 06:33:09 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 16, 2012, 07:14:53 PM
So they are gonna force people to bring their own bags or they gonna use paper and fuck up the forests some more?
At least you can reforest; you can't replastic. You see the size of the Great Pacific Garbage Patch lately? Twice the size of fucking Texas. And there ain't no trees trunks floating there.
Texas? You sure?
I wonder if this patch is like the giant floating used condom reef that turned out not to exist.
They should be giving extra plastic bags out instead of banning them. Create more jobs for the bag makers, else they'll be left holding the bag.
Quote from: derspiess on May 17, 2012, 07:36:40 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 17, 2012, 06:33:09 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 16, 2012, 07:14:53 PM
So they are gonna force people to bring their own bags or they gonna use paper and fuck up the forests some more?
At least you can reforest; you can't replastic. You see the size of the Great Pacific Garbage Patch lately? Twice the size of fucking Texas. And there ain't no trees trunks floating there.
Texas? You sure?
I wonder if this patch is like the giant floating used condom reef that turned out not to exist.
Yeah, you would say that.
http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/09/11612593-study-plastic-in-great-pacific-garbage-patch-increases-100-fold?lite
MSNBC? Fine, I get to quote worldnetdaily.com & whatnot.
:P
That's pretty nasty, that garbage patch. We keep dumping trash in the ocean. Does anyone know if it's possible to cleanly burn trash, and if that's a good alternative to sea dumping?
Quote from: derspiess on May 17, 2012, 09:12:51 PM
MSNBC? Fine, I get to quote worldnetdaily.com & whatnot.
:P
http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2012/0509/How-a-humongous-garbage-patch-in-the-Pacific-breeds-new-bugs-video
Here you go, fetus breath. Feel better?
Quote from: KRonn on May 17, 2012, 09:12:56 PM
That's pretty nasty, that garbage patch. We keep dumping trash in the ocean. Does anyone know if it's possible to cleanly burn trash, and if that's a good alternative to sea dumping?
Trash is not dumped into the ocean, it ends there for a variety of reasons.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 17, 2012, 09:15:13 PM
http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2012/0509/How-a-humongous-garbage-patch-in-the-Pacific-breeds-new-bugs-video
The photo of the house floating in the open ocean in that article is really neat. :)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 17, 2012, 09:15:13 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 17, 2012, 09:12:51 PM
MSNBC? Fine, I get to quote worldnetdaily.com & whatnot.
:P
http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2012/0509/How-a-humongous-garbage-patch-in-the-Pacific-breeds-new-bugs-video
Here you go, fetus breath. Feel better?
That's better, though I suspect the "twice the size as Texas" thing is bullshit. That wikipedia article said it was about the size of Hawaii, which seems more plausible.
We can't destroy it-- it's a perfect habitat for Halobates sericeus.
'mexicans'