http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17549388 (http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17549388)
Whatever my personal dislike or suspicion of the guy, if this happens I think this is great news as it represents, excuse my language, a giant "Fuck You" to our governing classes.
Our politicians of most parties, need to understand just how disaffected large swathes of the general public are with current political discourse and the upper-middle class progressive/reactionary Tory agendas
He's won it with a majority of 10,000 votes - 18,000 respect party votes to 8,000 or so for the Labour party, who previously held the seat.
Quote from: mongers on March 29, 2012, 08:20:30 PM
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17549388 (http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17549388)
Whatever my personal dislike or suspicion of the guy, if this happens I think this is great news as it represents, excuse my language, a giant "Fuck You" to our governing classes.
Our politicians of most parties, need to understand just how disaffected large swathes of the general public are with current political discourse and the upper-middle class progressive/reactionary Tory agendas
Isn't he the anti-semitic fuckwit?
Pre-result interview here:
http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16199081 (http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16199081)
Quote from: Scipio on March 29, 2012, 08:36:35 PM
Isn't he the anti-semitic fuckwit?
Yeah. Though in many ways that's the least of his sins.
QuoteOur politicians of most parties, need to understand just how disaffected large swathes of the general public are with current political discourse and the upper-middle class progressive/reactionary Tory agendas
That may be fair, but I live in his old seat and he did a shit job as an MP. It's sad that, again, he'll be working part-time on behalf of one of the poorest constituencies in the country :(
Yes but as the result demonstrates, people weren't voting for or against the need for a dutiful constituency MP, but were were sticking two fingers up to the mainstream political parties.
edit:
And one thing this guy has is acute political antenna, he's sensed the general uneasy within the population, something as which the Tory posh-boy lead government seems unable to see, understand or empathies with.
When the Soviet Union fell we found we had to two kinds of commie sympathizers. Those who believed in communism and its ideals and those who simply hated the West. Galloway falls in the second category. Anyone who stands against the US is his friend it seems. No matter who they are.
That gives him far too many ideals. He's just a man desperately in need of a totalitarian teat. Any'll serve.
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 29, 2012, 09:22:21 PM
That gives him far too many ideals. He's just a man desperately in need of a totalitarian teat. Any'll serve.
But that doesn't stop him being the man of the moment; all very well for you to come up with nice intellectual reasons why he's a fraud and so forth, but the votes he's garnered across the whole constituency speak to a larger truth, that of rather serious public dissatisfaction with the ruling classes.
And what you and Raz are doing is making the same mistake that Cameron, Millband and the rent-boy have made, ignoring the groundswell of discontent and trying to discredit any opposition leadership.
I can recognise that and still think the man who's garnered it is a knob who will hurt his constituency's interests and, if the experience of this area's anything to go by, alienate a lot of his supporters.
I agree on the discontent, that doesn't mean I'm happy Galloway's won. I don't like him. He's a bad MP and the areas he's represented in the past need someone better.
I'm still having a hard time seeing mongers as a "Big England Tory" or whatever it was he called himself.
Quote from: mongers on March 29, 2012, 09:33:30 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 29, 2012, 09:22:21 PM
That gives him far too many ideals. He's just a man desperately in need of a totalitarian teat. Any'll serve.
But that doesn't stop him being the man of the moment; all very well for you to come up with nice intellectual reasons why he's a fraud and so forth, but the votes he's garnered across the whole constituency speak to a larger truth, that of rather serious public dissatisfaction with the ruling classes.
And what you and Raz are doing is making the same mistake that Cameron, Millband and the rent-boy have made, ignoring the groundswell of discontent and trying to discredit any opposition leadership.
I don't know anything about a groundswell of discontent in the UK. I don't live there. I do know that the guy is shills for some of the worst regimes in the world. The American equivalent would be to elect David Duke to Congress to show Washington we are dissatisfied.
Some comfort for the Tories after a terrible week.
Though I would be interested to see a detailed breakdown of the demographics of Bradford west :hmm:
I've found this :
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/guide/seat-profiles/bradfordwest/
The figures are for 2001. It is an impoverished place and back in 2001 38% of the electors were muslim, I would imagine that percentage has gone up.
He is certainly a fuckwit. The kind of idiot who thinks they're smart and predominate university socialist societied, scaring away any rational thinkers.
I saw his interview on the 10 O'Clock show a few weeks back, it was...horrific.
I'm not sure how good it is for the Tories. This was one of their targets (not in the by-election but in 2010) in the attempt to move into Northern cities and get a more ethnically diverse parliamentary party, and they've been between 31-37% for the last few elections.
I can't find a better constituency guide than that one.
One interesting note is that the BNP didn't run a candidate, which is odd. This is the sort of seat they normally target (they've run there in the last few elections) and their best chance is probably a by-election. I wonder why they didn't field a candidate :mellow:
I want to like him because Sheilbh doesn't, but:
Quote from: GallowayThey have to stop supporting illegal, bloody, costly foreign wars because one of the reasons why they were so decisively defeated this evening is that the public don't believe that they have atoned for their role in the invasion and occupation of other people's countries and the drowning of those countries in blood
Man, fuck this guy. :(
Quote from: mongers on March 29, 2012, 09:33:30 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 29, 2012, 09:22:21 PM
That gives him far too many ideals. He's just a man desperately in need of a totalitarian teat. Any'll serve.
But that doesn't stop him being the man of the moment; all very well for you to come up with nice intellectual reasons why he's a fraud and so forth, but the votes he's garnered across the whole constituency speak to a larger truth, that of rather serious public dissatisfaction with the ruling classes.
And what you and Raz are doing is making the same mistake that Cameron, Millband and the rent-boy have made, ignoring the groundswell of discontent and trying to discredit any opposition leadership.
Nope. This is just one very atypical constituency. There may be a groundswell of disconent, in fact I'm sure there is one, but that doesn't mean that any one person or party represents those discontented. It is as likely to manifest itself in voting for the BNP or the Greens or not voting at all.
It is the second atypical constituency that he has managed to win though, this is not a one-off.
I hope he reprises his cat role from Big Brother when he lapped imaginary milk from Rula Lenska's hands.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1NIuCt72bU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1NIuCt72bU)
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on March 30, 2012, 01:14:40 AM
Some comfort for the Tories after a terrible week.
Though I would be interested to see a detailed breakdown of the demographics of Bradford west :hmm:
I've found this :
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/guide/seat-profiles/bradfordwest/
The figures are for 2001. It is an impoverished place and back in 2001 38% of the electors were muslim, I would imagine that percentage has gone up.
43% Asians and almost all of them Muslims 38%. Bradford has for a long time been identified as a hot spot for muslim asian (pakistani for you non english) ghettoization. I'm sure dissatisfaction with Labour is an issue, but in this case I'd worry that it represents dissatisfaction with british society as a whole. Disaffected tories vote UKIP, disaffected labour voters vote LibDem and dissaffected LibDems have learned to live with first past the post. They went for Galloway.
I think this says more about West Bradford than it does about britain's political classes.
I agree with that.
Note that the 38% figure is from 11 years ago, it is undoubtedly higher today, though I am having no success in finding a more up-to-date figure.
I would imagine that in a few years time we may have several religious Pakistani Mps sitting in the Commons :huh:
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on March 30, 2012, 05:21:39 AM
I agree with that.
Note that the 38% figure is from 11 years ago, it is undoubtedly higher today, though I am having no success in finding a more up-to-date figure.
I would imagine that in a few years time we may have several religious Pakistani Mps sitting in the Commons :huh:
:osama: Rule Britannia! :bowler:
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on March 30, 2012, 05:21:39 AM
I agree with that.
Note that the 38% figure is from 11 years ago, it is undoubtedly higher today, though I am having no success in finding a more up-to-date figure.
I would imagine that in a few years time we may have several religious Pakistani Mps sitting in the Commons :huh:
seeing what the pakistanis did with pakistan that sure has to be a comforting idea.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on March 30, 2012, 05:21:39 AM
I would imagine that in a few years time we may have several religious Pakistani Mps sitting in the Commons :huh:
You need to send in some Indians to partition West Bradford.
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 30, 2012, 01:22:55 AM
One interesting note is that the BNP didn't run a candidate, which is odd. This is the sort of seat they normally target (they've run there in the last few elections) and their best chance is probably a by-election. I wonder why they didn't field a candidate :mellow:
I guess the BNP figured that they couldn't compete with Galloway when it came to being a moronic racist asshole.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on March 30, 2012, 05:21:39 AM
I agree with that.
Note that the 38% figure is from 11 years ago, it is undoubtedly higher today, though I am having no success in finding a more up-to-date figure.
I would imagine that in a few years time we may have several religious Pakistani Mps sitting in the Commons :huh:
You mean you don't already? :huh:
There are several 'south asian' MPs in Canada (can't be bothered to figure out if they are pakistani, indian or whatever, or muslim, sikh or hindu).
Sitting as religious Pakistani MPs, rather than as ordinary MPs who happen to be pakistani and/or religious.
Just checked and there were 8 Muslim MPs returned in the 2010 election.
I find myself uninterested as long as I can continue to import Jaffa Cakes.
Quote from: Gups on March 30, 2012, 02:28:56 AM
Quote from: mongers on March 29, 2012, 09:33:30 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 29, 2012, 09:22:21 PM
That gives him far too many ideals. He's just a man desperately in need of a totalitarian teat. Any'll serve.
But that doesn't stop him being the man of the moment; all very well for you to come up with nice intellectual reasons why he's a fraud and so forth, but the votes he's garnered across the whole constituency speak to a larger truth, that of rather serious public dissatisfaction with the ruling classes.
And what you and Raz are doing is making the same mistake that Cameron, Millband and the rent-boy have made, ignoring the groundswell of discontent and trying to discredit any opposition leadership.
Nope. This is just one very atypical constituency. There may be a groundswell of disconent, in fact I'm sure there is one, but that doesn't mean that any one person or party represents those discontented. It is as likely to manifest itself in voting for the BNP or the Greens or not voting at all.
I don't disagree, I wanted to highlight the very real discontent and I think Galloway is a hugely capable rabble rouser, no one else could have pulled this off. Saving perhaps if UK politics aquires a Mosley like figure.
Isn't the BNP still riven by factional fighting ? Not that it matters, they aren't anywhere near ever being able to win a seat. Their saving grace is they're slightly less stupid than the EDL, who seem to be the most stupid people ever to get involve in a political movement.
The BNP is slowly collapsing.
It failed monumentally in the last elections, being embarassed in most of its targets. That was its last throw of the dice.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on March 30, 2012, 05:21:39 AM
I agree with that.
Note that the 38% figure is from 11 years ago, it is undoubtedly higher today, though I am having no success in finding a more up-to-date figure.
I would imagine that in a few years time we may have several religious Pakistani Mps sitting in the Commons :huh:
I'm not too sure there.
The rough Pakistani areas don't tend to be home to the most religious of muslims. That's what makes them such dodgy areas really, national-standard 'youths without hope' who like getting drunk and causing trouble and who see white people outsiders. Its in reaction to this kind of person predominating which pushes the more decent ones into extremism.
Interesting how most of the political communtards are painting this as a disaster for Labour, but if you look at the figures it's a more complex picture:
Turnout - 7,671 fever people voted.
Respect - 17,096 votes gained.
Labour - 10,200 votes lost
LibCon coalition - 13,119 votes between them lost.
The government coalition combined support got hammered, they retrained less than 25% of their former voters, to me this seems a bigger story than the failure of EdMilly's party.
Even if you assume all 10,000 former labour votes shifted directly to Respect, and that Conservatives and Libdems accounted for all of the previous voters who decided to stay at home, then that still means more of them choose to then directly vote for Respect than to go with the government candidates, and by a margin 5450 to 4250 remaining loyalists.
Having reflected on it I think it is "a plague on both your houses".
The coalition are deeply unpopular, but then they are in the middle of doing many unpopular things (some of them necessary).
Labour's inability to turn this into huge percentage leads is unusual.
Unless the government commits suicide (quite possible given their recent incompetence) we will have the Scottish referendum before the next general election. I'd quite like to see some statesmanlike debate and illumination of the key issues before this vote takes place. I think that what we will get is a bunch of silly plonkers arsing around in pieshops, petrol forecourts and accusing each other of watering their lawns with hosepipes. Scotland might simply leave in a fit of pique, one could hardly blame them.
I find it all very depressing :(
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on April 08, 2012, 12:42:56 PM
The coalition are deeply unpopular, but then they are in the middle of doing many unpopular things (some of them necessary).
Labour's inability to turn this into huge percentage leads is unusual.
It seems to be a common streak in some countries at the moment. "Yeah, the government totally sucks, but it's not like the opposition would do any better."
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on April 08, 2012, 12:42:56 PM
Having reflected on it I think it is "a plague on both your houses".
That is consistent with those 7,671 fever voters.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 08, 2012, 12:49:35 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on April 08, 2012, 12:42:56 PM
Having reflected on it I think it is "a plague on both your houses".
That is consistent with those 7,671 fever voters.
No its not, because I've discounted those in my model of possible voter behavior, and within that more of the remaining ConDem voters, decided to turn out and explicitly choose the 'far left' candidate than stay with the government.
Which gets back to my central point, its seems more significant than just a plague on all their houses type of discontent.
What my very unscientific, anecdotal evidence from canvasing people on the high streets indicates to me is that the way is now opening for 'populist' groups, but probably not right-wing, to make a mark on the English political landscape.
I think you missed the point Mongers.
Raz was making a joke mongers :huh:
Peter Hitchens says he might stand :
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2126562/George-Galloway-elected-I-said-Id-stand-MP--Well-Ive-changed-mind.html
I'm not sure about your "more significant" comment as you come to the same conclusion that I would regarding the opportunity for populist groups, mavericks and chancers.
Well, the government has to do some unpopular things, and that's going to make people angry. On the other hand, it's impossible for any good, right-thinking person to vote for a party that would make a doofus like Ed Miliband the Prime Minister. This should be a golden age for freaky fringe parties like the BNP and the assorted separatist scum. If Oswald Mosley were alive today, he'd stand a fair chance of becoming Fuhrer.
Quote from: Neil on April 08, 2012, 02:25:19 PM
Well, the government has to do some unpopular things, and that's going to make people angry. On the other hand, it's impossible for any good, right-thinking person to vote for a party that would make a doofus like Ed Miliband the Prime Minister. This should be a golden age for freaky fringe parties like the BNP and the assorted separatist scum. If Oswald Mosley were alive today, he'd stand a fair chance of becoming Fuhrer.
Strangely enough and going to say "This"; you're right there's a significant political vacuum, someone of his caliber could pull off some startling election results.
Which was my beef with the Occupy movement, they pissed away a golden political opportunity and choose instead to spend 6 months in tents engage in internecine naval gazing.
Quote from: mongers on April 08, 2012, 02:33:43 PM
Quote from: Neil on April 08, 2012, 02:25:19 PM
Well, the government has to do some unpopular things, and that's going to make people angry. On the other hand, it's impossible for any good, right-thinking person to vote for a party that would make a doofus like Ed Miliband the Prime Minister. This should be a golden age for freaky fringe parties like the BNP and the assorted separatist scum. If Oswald Mosley were alive today, he'd stand a fair chance of becoming Fuhrer.
Strangely enough and going to say "This"; you're right there's a significant political vacuum, someone of his caliber could pull off some startling election results.
Which was my beef with the Occupy movement, they pissed away a golden political opportunity and choose instead to spend 6 months in tents engage in internecine naval gazing.
Yeah, but that was the whole point of the Occupy movement. It was never based on ideas like justice, fairness or the public good. Without a concrete set of political ideals to challenge liberalism, you won't fix the world.
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 30, 2012, 04:42:54 PM
I find myself uninterested as long as I can continue to import Jaffa Cakes.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stargatefan.com%2Fepisodes2%2F0219%2Fimages%2FBonus188.jpg&hash=b5b5eabc22e04bf0b9a7d956f7435dccbdb53e63)
God, you are such a fucking moron sometimes.
It's just a joke, lighten up.