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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Zoupa on December 11, 2011, 10:00:44 PM

Title: De Villepin announces
Post by: Zoupa on December 11, 2011, 10:00:44 PM
Quote
PARIS — Former French prime minister and conservative politician Dominique de Villepin announced Sunday he would take on his right-wing rival President Nicolas Sarkozy in next year's presidential vote.

"I have decided to be a candidate in the 2012 presidential election," he told TF1 television.

"I intend to defend a certain idea of France... I have a conviction: the 2012 meeting will be a meeting of truth, courage and will."

Villepin, a suave diplomat best remembered for leading the charge against the Iraq war at the United Nations in 2003, is a protege of former president Jacques Chirac.
It was under Chirac that he served as foreign minister from 2002 to 2004 and as prime minister from 2005 to 2007.

He and Sarkozy are bitter rivals and in September a French appeals court confirmed his acquittal over a political scandal in which he was accused of having smeared the future president.

Villepin said he was "worried" to see "France humiliated by the law of the markets which imposes more and austerity".
"I have confidence in the ability of the French people to discern what is in the public interest and to what point, more than ever, national unity is required of us all," said Villepin.
"Ten years is too long" for the country to be ruled by Sarkozy, he said, accusing the president of abandoning French interests.
"Today we are losing a large part of our sovereignty. We are aligning ourselves with interests that are not those of France. I believe one needs more courage than that," Villepin said.

Villepin, a 58-year-old political insider who has never run for public office, is likely to draw some right-wing votes away from Sarkozy.

But opinion polls suggest his support among voters is currently very low. A poll by firm LH2 released on Sunday showed Villepin with only one percent of intended votes, behind Socialist candidate Francois Hollande with 31.5 percent, Sarkozy with 26 percent and far-right candidate Marine Le Pen with 13.5 percent.

Sarkozy's supporters were nevertheless quick to urge him to drop out of the race.
"Dominique de Villepin is a man on his own, without financial means, without a political movement... It is in the public interests of France (for the right) to form a bloc around the president," said Nadine Morano, a junior minister with Sarkozy's UMP party.
"The public interest should come before personal ambition," she said.
Villepin was acquitted in May in the smear case, which centred on a fake list of names that falsely implicated Sarkozy in kickbacks on arms deals with Taiwan.
Sarkozy accused Villepin of causing his name to be on the list. The trial focussed on a web of murky claims and counter-claims about who in European defence company EADS, owner of Airbus, was responsible for the fake list, and whether Villepin could have prevented it.
In September a lawyer widely reported to be close to Sarkozy also implicated Villepin in a scandal involving huge sums of cash allegedly handed over by African leaders to politicians.
Robert Bourgi said he had personally handed $20 million in cash from several presidents of France's former African colonies to Chirac and Villepin -- a claim that both furiously denied.
France will vote in the first round of a presidential election in April and potentially a second round in May, followed by parliamentary elections in June.

Finally. :frog:
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 11, 2011, 10:05:01 PM
Fuck that filthy fuck.

Sarkozy in 2012.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 12, 2011, 04:33:38 AM
Great!
Right now, in terms of votes, he's in the political midget alley with two trotskyite candidates and a pseudo-centrist lackey of Sarkozy. That's between 0 to 1 % of votes :)
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Lettow77 on December 12, 2011, 04:39:19 AM
 It's all about the new bishoujo model of Le Pen.

Every french election, it is always about Le Pen, in whatever form the Le Pen chooses to manifest itself.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 12, 2011, 06:15:13 AM
Quote
Villepin said he was "worried" to see "France humiliated by the law of the markets which imposes more and austerity".

ossum
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Ideologue on December 12, 2011, 07:40:37 AM
Well, then.  Villepin for Congress.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Sheilbh on December 12, 2011, 07:58:07 AM
:w00t: :wub:
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: grumbler on December 12, 2011, 08:29:43 AM
I love Villepin's mix of xenophobia and populism.  Make's Ron Paul look like a centrist.  Fun times anticipated, unless his crooked past catches up to Villepin before the elections.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Sheilbh on December 12, 2011, 08:43:45 AM
Quote from: grumbler on December 12, 2011, 08:29:43 AM
I love Villepin's mix of xenophobia and populism. 
You mean Gaullism? :P
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Valmy on December 12, 2011, 08:45:45 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 12, 2011, 06:15:13 AM
Quote
Villepin said he was "worried" to see "France humiliated by the law of the markets which imposes more and austerity".

ossum

Will: Villepin fight the law and will the law win?
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Ideologue on December 12, 2011, 08:48:07 AM
In France, if you fight the law, you usually win.  At least that seems to have been Villepin's experience.

French students: lazy, stupid.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Valmy on December 12, 2011, 09:06:04 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on December 12, 2011, 08:48:07 AM
French students: lazy, stupid.

Heh.  If they are lazy and stupid I would hate to see how you describe American students.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Ideologue on December 12, 2011, 09:29:18 AM
Lazy, even stupider.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: grumbler on December 12, 2011, 11:41:52 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 12, 2011, 08:43:45 AM
Quote from: grumbler on December 12, 2011, 08:29:43 AM
I love Villepin's mix of xenophobia and populism. 
You mean Gaullism? :P
Pretty much.  :lol:

It is endless fun.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: grumbler on December 12, 2011, 11:42:32 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on December 12, 2011, 09:29:18 AM
Lazy, even stupider.
Not so much, since you graduated.  :P
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Ideologue on December 12, 2011, 12:00:05 PM
If I was smart, I'd have been a cowboy, not a doctor or lawyer or such.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Zoupa on December 12, 2011, 01:19:59 PM
I don't really get the xenophobic comment.  :huh:

Anyways. He won't win, it's all about sticking it to Sarko mixed with genuine gaullism.

You can guess where my vote lies, first round anyways.  :cool:
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Valmy on December 12, 2011, 01:26:46 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on December 12, 2011, 01:19:59 PM
I don't really get the xenophobic comment.  :huh:

Anyways. He won't win, it's all about sticking it to Sarko mixed with genuine gaullism.

You can guess where my vote lies, first round anyways.  :cool:

:hug:

Zoups is the platonic Frenchman.  I mean besides the living in France part.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Fireblade on December 12, 2011, 01:32:24 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on December 12, 2011, 01:19:59 PM
You can guess where my vote lies, first round anyways.  :cool:

I always knew you were a fan of Le Pen, you racist fuck.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 12, 2011, 01:39:24 PM
Genuine Gaullism seems to consist of trying to be as high maintenance as possible. 
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Zoupa on December 12, 2011, 01:45:07 PM
I know you like to get your hate on for Villepin. You need to get over getting bitch-slapped in 03 and appreciate what he can bring to the table. :frog:
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Zanza on December 12, 2011, 01:47:36 PM
Wasn't he right in 2003?
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: MadImmortalMan on December 12, 2011, 01:48:45 PM
He still has a girl's name though.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Ideologue on December 12, 2011, 01:54:14 PM
Quote from: Zanza on December 12, 2011, 01:47:36 PM
Wasn't he right in 2003?

NON.  Les Francaise: ils detestent la liberte, ou simplement les Arabes?
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 12, 2011, 01:58:05 PM
Bitch slapping and back stabbing are two different things.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Sheilbh on December 12, 2011, 02:01:46 PM
It's not backstabbing when you're warned in advance.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 12, 2011, 02:29:01 PM
Which wasn't done.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Zoupa on December 12, 2011, 02:29:51 PM
 :lol:

Yes, I'm sure the US had no idea what was gonna happen that day.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Ideologue on December 12, 2011, 02:30:35 PM
We could have been brothers in Babylon together. :(
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Sheilbh on December 12, 2011, 02:39:03 PM
Yes it was. French, British and American sources confirm that MGM was sent by Chirac to warn DC that France would veto.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 12, 2011, 02:46:35 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 12, 2011, 02:39:03 PM
Yes it was. French, British and American sources confirm that MGM was sent by Chirac to warn DC that France would veto.

If all Villepin had done was cast a veto, then it hardly qualifies as bitch slapping either, does it?

Zouperhead was talking about the public theater, as was I.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 12, 2011, 04:47:50 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 12, 2011, 02:39:03 PM
Yes it was. French, British and American sources confirm that MGM was sent by Chirac to warn DC that France would veto.

Isn't that just like Chirac?  Instead of getting on the phone himself, he sends a bankrupt movie studio to deliver a message to a comic book company.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Zoupa on December 12, 2011, 05:22:20 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 12, 2011, 02:46:35 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 12, 2011, 02:39:03 PM
Yes it was. French, British and American sources confirm that MGM was sent by Chirac to warn DC that France would veto.

If all Villepin had done was cast a veto, then it hardly qualifies as bitch slapping either, does it?

Zouperhead was talking about the public theater, as was I.

http://www.foreignpolicy.org.tr/documents/villepin_140203_p.htm (http://www.foreignpolicy.org.tr/documents/villepin_140203_p.htm)

Where's the backstabbing part?
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Ed Anger on December 12, 2011, 05:42:31 PM
I wish I knew we was going to re-fight 2003 all over again so I could be better prepared with all the old french jokes.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: crazy canuck on December 12, 2011, 06:14:47 PM
Today we are all Americans.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: mongers on December 12, 2011, 06:21:36 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 12, 2011, 04:47:50 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 12, 2011, 02:39:03 PM
Yes it was. French, British and American sources confirm that MGM was sent by Chirac to warn DC that France would veto.

Isn't that just like Chirac?  Instead of getting on the phone himself, he sends a bankrupt movie studio to deliver a message to a comic book company.

Between them they would have probably run the occupation a bit better.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on December 12, 2011, 06:26:18 PM
The Justice League of America would certainly not have abused the prisoners  :hmm:

OTOH MGM may have had the wrong confessional background to really make a go of running Iraq  :huh:
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 12, 2011, 06:31:04 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on December 12, 2011, 05:22:20 PM
http://www.foreignpolicy.org.tr/documents/villepin_140203_p.htm (http://www.foreignpolicy.org.tr/documents/villepin_140203_p.htm)

Where's the backstabbing part?

Where's the bitch slapping part?
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 12, 2011, 06:33:11 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 12, 2011, 06:14:47 PM
Today we are all Americans.

Could you move that day to April 15?
That way we can solve that tricky deficit problem.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Zoupa on December 12, 2011, 06:43:37 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 12, 2011, 06:31:04 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on December 12, 2011, 05:22:20 PM
http://www.foreignpolicy.org.tr/documents/villepin_140203_p.htm (http://www.foreignpolicy.org.tr/documents/villepin_140203_p.htm)

Where's the backstabbing part?

Where's the bitch slapping part?

Throughout, when he demolishes point by point why military action at that point in time is not a good thing.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 12, 2011, 06:48:23 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on December 12, 2011, 06:43:37 PM
Throughout, when he demolishes point by point why military action at that point in time is not a good thing.

Ah, *that* bitchslapping.

I will confess my memory of the exact statements and actions is a little hazy,  and that the back stabbing charge might be unwarranted.  Generally I was thinking of things like lobbying the nonpermanent members of the Council to vote no, and I was thinking there were more inflamatory remarks, more directed at the public, made by either Chriac or Villepin.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Zoupa on December 13, 2011, 12:51:41 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 12, 2011, 06:48:23 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on December 12, 2011, 06:43:37 PM
Throughout, when he demolishes point by point why military action at that point in time is not a good thing.

Ah, *that* bitchslapping.

I will confess my memory of the exact statements and actions is a little hazy,  and that the back stabbing charge might be unwarranted.  Generally I was thinking of things like lobbying the nonpermanent members of the Council to vote no, and I was thinking there were more inflamatory remarks, more directed at the public, made by either Chriac or Villepin.

You guys lobbied a lot too, and got the Coalition of the willing.

I don't remember Villepin or Chirac saying anything inflamatory to the press or anything like that.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Sheilbh on December 13, 2011, 06:00:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 12, 2011, 02:46:35 PM

If all Villepin had done was cast a veto, then it hardly qualifies as bitch slapping either, does it?

Zouperhead was talking about the public theater, as was I.
I can see the public theatre of it all mattering for a bitchslap - as opposed to a regular slap.  But surely you either backstab someone or you don't.  That he did it with all his poetic pipes fluting is irrelevant to that.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 13, 2011, 06:34:18 PM
Could you live with sucker punch?
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Zoupa on December 13, 2011, 11:21:56 PM
Not even.

I still maintain that France has been, and shown itself to be, the best ally the US has ever had.  :sleep:

We're there when it matters, for example and especially humint on the near-east and terrorism.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: fhdz on December 13, 2011, 11:32:11 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 12, 2011, 06:14:47 PM
Today we are all Americans.

:D
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Habbaku on December 13, 2011, 11:44:13 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on December 13, 2011, 11:21:56 PM
I still maintain that France has been, and shown itself to be, the best ally the US has ever had.

Certainly a fair opinion, and one borne by plenty of evidence.  The Brits are lacke--er, jockeying for the position rather hard, though.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Razgovory on December 14, 2011, 12:37:56 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on December 13, 2011, 11:21:56 PM
Not even.

I still maintain that France has been, and shown itself to be, the best ally the US has ever had.  :sleep:

We're there when it matters, for example and especially humint on the near-east and terrorism.

Actually, I'm inclined to agree a bit here.  When you have friend who is about to do something really stupid, you should do everything you can to stop him.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Ideologue on December 14, 2011, 01:15:35 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on December 13, 2011, 11:21:56 PM
Not even.

I still maintain that France has been, and shown itself to be, the best ally the US has ever had.  :sleep:

We're there when it matters, for example and especially humint on the near-east and terrorism.

Je t'aime bien,* mais tu dois etre folle.

Le terrorisme n'est pas important; ce qui est important, c'est renverser les fascistes. <_<




*Sauf si cela signife aussi que je veux avoir des rapports sexuels avec vouz, comme "je t'aime" sans "bien."  Mais vouz savez que je veux dire. -_-
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Barrister on December 14, 2011, 01:21:21 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on December 13, 2011, 11:21:56 PM
Not even.

I still maintain that France has been, and shown itself to be, the best ally the US has ever had.  :sleep:

I mean really.

:rolleyes:

I wouldn't even put Canada in that role, as much as I wish we were.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Habbaku on December 14, 2011, 01:38:55 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 14, 2011, 12:37:56 AM
Actually, I'm inclined to agree a bit here.  When you have friend who is about to do something really stupid, you should do everything you can to stop him.

:yes:
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Ideologue on December 14, 2011, 01:43:37 AM
No one has ever demonstrated to me how invading Iraq was stupid.  5000 dead people does not exactly suggest a grave of empires.

Now, retaining our obscenely low tax burden while we were fighting two wars: that was stupid.  But I don't remember anyone in France counseling us on our revenue policy back in 2003.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Razgovory on December 14, 2011, 02:52:01 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on December 14, 2011, 01:43:37 AM
No one has ever demonstrated to me how invading Iraq was stupid.  5000 dead people does not exactly suggest a grave of empires.

Now, retaining our obscenely low tax burden while we were fighting two wars: that was stupid.  But I don't remember anyone in France counseling us on our revenue policy back in 2003.

5000 dead people may not be the grave of empires but it's not exactly a good thing.  The thing is, the US didn't really gain anything from the war.  It cost a lot of money, and racked up lots of casualties but the gains are pretty paltry.  The expenditure of political capital is harder to gauge, but I think it has been significant.  I think the US commitment to Iraq has served to weaken the ability to deal with the real threat in the region: Iran.  It may be harder to gain international support for possible military strikes on Iranian nuclear facilities because of the boondoggle with WMD in Iraq.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 14, 2011, 06:44:33 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on December 13, 2011, 11:21:56 PM
I still maintain that France has been, and shown itself to be, the best ally the US has ever had.  :sleep:

We're there when it matters, for example and especially humint on the near-east and terrorism.

I would concur with that.  But people have more fun with Freedom Fries and cheese-eating surrender monkeys.

And in 2003, while they were calling bullshit on the Bush Administration over Iraq*, they were also the ones sounding the klaxon loudest on Iranian nuclear development.  It was the French that delivered the intel on what was going on at Natanz and Arak, not the UN, not the IAEA, and not the US.




*which as Yi intimates, quite frankly, they could've done in a better way, and yes, De Villepin ambushed Powell at the last minute with an about-face, so you can't weasel out of that one, Zoups.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 14, 2011, 06:47:00 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on December 14, 2011, 01:43:37 AM
No one has ever demonstrated to me how invading Iraq was stupid.

Iraqi election results have demonstrated that for you.  Tehran appreciates the support.
Title: Re: De Villepin announces
Post by: Ideologue on December 14, 2011, 08:34:56 AM
Relax.  Tehran will be a trinitite parking lot by February.