I think it's far more important to crack down on kids for playing cops & robbers. They're not properly reading out suspects their Miranda rights! :mad:
http://mashable.com/2011/12/02/geneva-conventions-video-games/
QuoteShould the Geneva Conventions Be Applied to Video Games?
5 days ago by Zachary Sniderman
Could playing video games make you a war criminal? The International Committee of the Red Cross is looking into whether realistic war video games should be bound by international laws such as the Geneva and Hague Conventions.
If the committee finds that the laws do apply, they could ask game studios to adhere to the laws or even petition governments to regulate war video games, Kotaku reported.
The Geneva Conventions are a series of treaties and protocols created after World War II to establish international law around the humanitarian treatment of victims of war. The conventions prevent, among other things, the use of torture, inhumane treatment, hostage-taking, and excessive violence.
The International Committee of the Red Cross upholds the Geneva conventions in all manner of armed conflict, but they recently gathered at the 31st International Conference of the Red Cross and Red Crescent in Geneva to discuss whether their mandate extends to virtual victims in video games.
The event harkened back to a 2007 study held by TRIAL, a Geneva-based organization that monitors and reports on international crimes. The study examined 19 games set in real-world war environments to see if the games adhered to international law and found that:
"In computer and video games, violence is often shown and the players become 'virtually violent ... However, such games are not zones free of rules and ethics. It would be highly appreciated if games reproducing armed conflicts were to include the rules which apply to real armed conflicts. These rules and values are given by international humanitarian law and human rights law. They limit excessive violence and protect the human dignity of members of particularly vulnerable groups."
Anyone who has played a first-person shooter video game has seen some pretty grizzly digital action. Characters are blown up by rocket launchers, recently killed characters have full clips emptied into their bodies, civilians or unarmed combatants are shot and that's not even counting the sometimes brutal multiplayer arenas where its not uncommon for players to gloat over kills by shooting or even miming sexual acts.
Of course, it's just a video game. Those aren't real wars and those aren't real people being blown up or defiled. After beating a game, no player wants to then sit through a mock war trial for the civilian they accidentally shot in the first mission. These moments are, however, real concerns in modern warfare. The International Committee of the Red Cross, to the best of our knowledge, isn't trying to stop wholesale the violence that occurs in video games but rather to give those acts context by applying the very real international laws that govern modern combatants. It is less about curbing game violence and more about creating realistic (and ethical) conditions in war games such as Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 or Battlefield 3.
International war laws wouldn't apply to every type of game. Sci-fi shooters such as the Halo series would be exempt since the Geneva Conventions don't apply to marauding aliens (yet). But the International Committee has some difficult questions to answer even if it can get war games to adopt the conventions. For example, how can they be so concerned about modern shooters but turn a blind eye to possible actions in open-world games such as Grand Theft Auto? (Critics of video game violence often use the GTA series as an example since it allows players the freedom to, for example, have sex with a prostitute and then kill her.)
An integral part of GTA is the criminal lifestyle and avoiding arrest. The criminal acts may sometimes be heinous but at least there is an in-game punishment system. First-person shooters are starting to implement similar controls. For example, killing a civilian in Modern Warfare 3 will force the player to restart a mission. "It would mean a wasted opportunity if the virtual space transmitted the illusion of impunity for unlimited violence in armed conflicts," the TRIAL study stated.
Where do you stand on video game violence? Would the conventions ruin your in-game fun or help the games become even more realistic? Sound off in the comments.
This is a joke, right?
Quote from: fahdiz on December 07, 2011, 05:42:16 PM
This is a joke, right?
Every time you clicked on "exterminate the natives" in EU3 you were committing genocide!
And that's not even talking about that time you tried that nuclear war game! It seems that some crimes are too heinous for even your black heart. :angry:
:D
Real life is intruding on The Onion's market share.
I wonder about those 1.6 million Soviet prisoners I've taken in War in the East. Are they in little tiny pixel POW camps? Have they been shot by my pixel SS units? Are those 'Labor Squads' in my units full of pixel Polish prisoners?
What about the occupation of Soviet cities? Are there pixel Eitzentruppen shooting pixel commissars and pixel jews?
THE COUGHING IN DEFCON HAUNTS MY DREAMS
Well, I'd like to put whoever came up with this zany scheme in a camp.
Quote from: Ideologue on December 07, 2011, 06:41:34 PM
Well, I'd like to put whoever came up with this zany scheme in a camp.
Where they shall receive your bag off 300 defective dum-dums.
If they work hard.
I've used AA guns as antipersonnel weapons. :weep:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2011, 06:53:42 PM
I've used AA guns as antipersonnel weapons. :weep:
Company of Heroes is great with the meat chopper and the Wirblewind.
CROSS MY LINE OF SIGHT? POW POW POW POW!
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 07, 2011, 05:30:03 PM
However, such games are not zones free of rules and ethics.
Wrong.
Rolling over people with tanks: Good fun.
In some seriousness, I do kinda wish that EU2 didn't make narrowminded and serfdom so attractive. Low stab costs and an unbeatable army? Sure, that sounds like Russia to me.
Surely player characters do tend to obey the Geneva convention?
I can't off the topic of my head think of any games where the PC has to shoot prisoners or the like, its always the evil villains doing that sort of thing.
Quote from: Tyr on December 07, 2011, 08:58:06 PM
Surely player characters do tend to obey the Geneva convention?
I can't off the topic of my head think of any games where the PC has to shoot prisoners or the like, its always the evil villains doing that sort of thing.
Call of Duty had a level where the player murdered civilians, didn't it? Though I think they were Russians, so maybe it doesn't count.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 07, 2011, 06:54:58 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2011, 06:53:42 PM
I've used AA guns as antipersonnel weapons. :weep:
Company of Heroes is great with the meat chopper and the Wirblewind.
CROSS MY LINE OF SIGHT? POW POW POW POW!
For some reason I read that as "Company of Herpes", but that would probably be better suited for a sim about Japanese frontline brothels.
Quote from: Kleves on December 07, 2011, 10:54:49 PM
Call of Duty had a level where the player murdered civilians, didn't it? Though I think they were Russians, so maybe it doesn't count.
:lol:
Quote from: Kleves on December 07, 2011, 10:54:49 PM
Quote from: Tyr on December 07, 2011, 08:58:06 PM
Surely player characters do tend to obey the Geneva convention?
I can't off the topic of my head think of any games where the PC has to shoot prisoners or the like, its always the evil villains doing that sort of thing.
Call of Duty had a level where the player murdered civilians, didn't it? Though I think they were Russians, so maybe it doesn't count.
You didn't have to actively participate, and the game gave you the option to skip that level.
Quote from: Kleves on December 07, 2011, 10:54:49 PM
Quote from: Tyr on December 07, 2011, 08:58:06 PM
Surely player characters do tend to obey the Geneva convention?
I can't off the topic of my head think of any games where the PC has to shoot prisoners or the like, its always the evil villains doing that sort of thing.
Call of Duty had a level where the player murdered civilians, didn't it? Though I think they were Russians, so maybe it doesn't count.
Killing civilians at ground level is morally wrong.
Any good source, Tim?
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 07, 2011, 06:17:10 PM
I wonder about those 1.6 million Soviet prisoners I've taken in War in the East. Are they in little tiny pixel POW camps? Have they been shot by my pixel SS units? Are those 'Labor Squads' in my units full of pixel Polish prisoners?
What about the occupation of Soviet cities? Are there pixel Eitzentruppen shooting pixel commissars and pixel jews?
That's how fahdiz plays.
Quote from: Tyr on December 07, 2011, 08:58:06 PM
Surely player characters do tend to obey the Geneva convention?
I can't off the topic of my head think of any games where the PC has to shoot prisoners or the like, its always the evil villains doing that sort of thing.
You could execute prisoners in M:TW, with a zany sound of people dying with their throats slit.
In Close Combat I think you could kill POWs through area fire. :hmm:
WITE is pretty much played with the understanding that the Geneva Convention books have been thrown in a ditch somewhere on the Russian-Polish border. :shifty:
Denying the Holocaust is illegal in some countries so WW2 games are already legally required to have small Jew counters being redeployed to Poland, staying for one turn and then being replaced by a Fillings counter.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 07, 2011, 06:54:58 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2011, 06:53:42 PM
I've used AA guns as antipersonnel weapons. :weep:
Company of Heroes is great with the meat chopper and the Wirblewind.
CROSS MY LINE OF SIGHT? POW POW POW POW!
You can also gun down medics. The AI won't normally target them, but you can manual aim at them. You will automatically blow up aid stations though.
But yeah, I love using the Quad .50 as a base of fire. It also works as a reinforcement point so you'll have a ton of soldiers hanging around it as you roll into an enemy base.
QuoteRolling over people with tanks: Good fun.
Or not.
Worrying about whether your computer games follow the Geneva Convention is the very definition of a "first world problem". :D
What about hate-speech between Dwarves and Elves? This has got to be a major worry as well :hmm:
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on December 09, 2011, 11:58:53 AM
What about hate-speech between Dwarves and Elves? This has got to be a major worry as well :hmm:
There are quite a few quests in WoW where you perform medical experiments on prisoners.
Quote from: hotshot on December 09, 2011, 10:23:23 AM
QuoteRolling over people with tanks: Good fun.
Or not.
There's nothing more satisfying than spotting a lone engineer repairing his tank, and then sneaking up on him, jumping in the tank and then backing over him.
Quote from: Neil on December 09, 2011, 12:40:40 PM
Quote from: hotshot on December 09, 2011, 10:23:23 AM
QuoteRolling over people with tanks: Good fun.
Or not.
There's nothing more satisfying than spotting a lone engineer repairing his tank, and then sneaking up on him, jumping in the tank and then backing over him.
Yup. BattleGTA.
I like watching the driver of the tank pop out to repair his tank and then run over to steal it. THIS IS A TANKJACKING.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on December 09, 2011, 11:58:53 AM
What about hate-speech between Dwarves and Elves? This has got to be a major worry as well :hmm:
Quick, someone send them some WH40k games!
Quote from: Malthus on December 09, 2011, 11:46:04 AM
Worrying about whether your computer games follow the Geneva Convention is the very definition of a "first world problem". :D
No kidding. :D
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 09, 2011, 08:58:06 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on December 09, 2011, 11:58:53 AM
What about hate-speech between Dwarves and Elves? This has got to be a major worry as well :hmm:
Quick, someone send them some WH40k games!
Aliens aren't covered by the Geneva Convention, nor are demons.
Quote from: Neil on December 09, 2011, 09:13:23 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 09, 2011, 08:58:06 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on December 09, 2011, 11:58:53 AM
What about hate-speech between Dwarves and Elves? This has got to be a major worry as well :hmm:
Quick, someone send them some WH40k games!
Aliens aren't covered by the Geneva Convention, nor are demons.
Plenty of rebellious humans get annihilated, tortured, etc.
QuoteShould the Geneva Conventions Be Applied to Video Games?
I usually play the Germans in CMBB and we dont do that sort of thing.
I remember an RTS where civilians were a harvest-able resource.
Now I have an image of the ore trucks from Command & Conquer scooping up people and taking them back to the refinery. It's pretty great.
Quote from: Ideologue on December 10, 2011, 07:09:22 PM
Now I have an image of the ore trucks from Command & Conquer scooping up people and taking them back to the refinery. It's pretty great.
Soylent Green mod?
Quote from: Drakken on December 08, 2011, 08:04:42 AM
Quote from: Tyr on December 07, 2011, 08:58:06 PM
Surely player characters do tend to obey the Geneva convention?
I can't off the topic of my head think of any games where the PC has to shoot prisoners or the like, its always the evil villains doing that sort of thing.
You could execute prisoners in M:TW, with a zany sound of people dying with their throats slit.
Do the conventions apply to medieval warfare? :unsure:
Quote from: hotshot on December 09, 2011, 10:23:23 AM
QuoteRolling over people with tanks: Good fun.
Or not.
Right, it's so impersonal.
Quote from: hotshot on December 09, 2011, 10:23:23 AM
QuoteRolling over people with tanks: Good fun.
Or not.
Was pretty fun in Vice City.
Just out of curiosity, how would they enforce GC rules in combat games? Invulnerable NPCs? Court martial cutscenes after completing levels? A mock military tribunal to drop the banhammer on "convicted" violators? :hmm:
I, for one, would love to see an interstitial maze entitled "Escape from Leavenworth" added to America's Army. :P
Quote from: DontSayBanana on December 11, 2011, 10:56:22 PM
Just out of curiosity, how would they enforce GC rules in combat games?
Haul gamers before a war crimes tribunal.
Quote from: Ideologue on December 10, 2011, 07:09:22 PM
Now I have an image of the ore trucks from Command & Conquer scooping up people and taking them back to the refinery. It's pretty great.
The game was "Universe at War". It wasn't very good, though. One of the factions had these tripod harvesters where they zap up civilians, cows, houses, etc
Quote from: dps on December 12, 2011, 02:53:47 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on December 11, 2011, 10:56:22 PM
Just out of curiosity, how would they enforce GC rules in combat games?
Haul gamers before a war crimes tribunal.
A virtual war crimes tribunal would seem appropriate :hmm:
One can imagine a game where the protagonist gets back from a mission and finds himself in a shitstorm for being a war criminal. Imagine a hotbar full of legal and rhetorical skills that you press as the court martial proceeds :cool:
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on December 12, 2011, 05:56:50 PM
Quote from: dps on December 12, 2011, 02:53:47 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on December 11, 2011, 10:56:22 PM
Just out of curiosity, how would they enforce GC rules in combat games?
Haul gamers before a war crimes tribunal.
Imagine a hotbar full of legal and rhetorical skills that you press as the court martial proceeds :cool:
The skill "Lying" would cover it all.