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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: jimmy olsen on September 22, 2011, 03:58:07 AM

Title: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 22, 2011, 03:58:07 AM
:frog:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fb%2Fbb%2FDavid-Oath_of_the_Horatii-1784.jpg%2F774px-David-Oath_of_the_Horatii-1784.jpg&hash=b6ebb1945a183eae9ad3796c5b9e1baf564b68f6)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/21/french-pledge-of-allegiance-teenagers_n_974461.html
QuoteFrench Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers

French Pledge Of Allegiance

PARIS -- If President Nicolas Sarkozy's
conservatives have their way, French teenagers
will one day swear their allegiance to the defense
of France – a sort of muscular French take on the
U.S. Pledge of Allegiance.

Fifteen years after France ended obligatory military
service, Sarkozy's UMP party wants to tighten the
binds between the nation and its military by
requiring rising 18-year-olds to declare "allegiance
to the arms" of France.

But critics see political posturing: France will hold
both presidential and legislative elections next
year, and they say the purely symbolic idea is
aimed to help conservatives siphon off voter
support from a resurgent far-right.

Many French take pride in their military – France
and Britain are western Europe's top military
powers – and the national anthem includes the
combative cry: "Aux armes, citoyens!" (To arms,
citizens!).

The debate about the military in nuclear-armed
France, a permanent member of the U.N. Security
Council, has already been part of the election
campaign. Green Party candidate Eva Joly drew
criticism over the summer after saying the annual
Bastille Day military parade should be abolished –
and replaced by a "citizens parade.". Segolene
Royal, who lost to Sarkozy in 2007 and is once
more vying for the Socialist Party nomination, has
recently revived her longtime call for the creation
of military-styled boot camps for juvenile
delinquents.

Under the UMP idea, French teenagers would
"make mention of 'the allegiance to the arms' at
the national day of call to defense or at the time of
acquiring French nationality," the party says on its
Web site. A law passed last year requires French
teens to attend a one-day program, called the "day
of defense and citizenship," to learn about the
military and civilian service.

Interviewed on French TV Wednesday, UMP chief
Jean-Francois Cope said the new proposal strikes
at "the issue of loyalty that is asked of every
French person ... in the hypothesis that the country
is under threat."

The proposal was one of 29 laid out at a party
conference on defense issues Tuesday. Others
included a call to explore new military alliances,
such as with Russia, and expressions of support for
France's defense industry.

The "allegiance" idea has already sparked
grumbling within the UMP: Defense Minister Gerard
Longuet reportedly has said the term bothers him,
and Education Minister Luc Chatel said it wasn't
"necessarily appropriate."

At the UMP meeting, Cope called for a "vow of
commitment, or allegiance, the term doesn't
matter ... for each young French person to show
he's ready to commit to the country if the
circumstances require it."

"It's the famous phrase of John Kennedy: 'Ask not
what your country can do for you, ask what you
can do for your country,' behind this proposal," he
added.

Cope, who has already declared his desire to run in
the presidential race in 2017, has clout in the UMP:
He was behind a controversial law enacted in April
that banned face-covering Islamic veils in France,
also seen as by some critics as a sop to France's
far-right.

But Marine Le Pen, the head of the far-right
National Front party, took issue with the
"allegiance" proposal: She told reporters the focus
should be on national service and "it seems utopian
to me to think that a simple pledge would
be enough."

"And then there's this Americanization of political
life – in whatever area it may be – it's really
starting to annoy me," she said in remarks on
French television.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Zoupa on September 22, 2011, 03:59:43 AM
I pray to God this moron doesn't get re-elected.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 22, 2011, 04:50:59 AM
Effet d'annonce a.k.a political posturing
No chance in Hell it will pass.
Even the FN is laughing is at that idea.

edit: this seems more like another stupid idea by Ségolène actually.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Grey Fox on September 22, 2011, 05:48:52 AM
Aux Armes, Citoyens!
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Martinus on September 22, 2011, 05:54:02 AM
Why is this written like a poem?
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 22, 2011, 05:55:57 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on September 22, 2011, 03:59:43 AM
I pray to God this moron doesn't get re-elected.

I like him. 
And all French schoolchildren should at least sing La Marseillaise.

Take pride in your Frenchiness, dammit.

Quote"And then there's this Americanization of political life – in whatever area it may be – it's really starting to annoy me," she said in remarks on French television.

WTF dragging our asses into this
You know what's starting to annoy me?  Bitches with big mouths and Eurotudes, yo.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Martinus on September 22, 2011, 05:56:48 AM
If there is one thing I like the French for, it's their unbashed hatred of Americans.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Tamas on September 22, 2011, 07:41:04 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 22, 2011, 05:56:48 AM
If there is one thing I like the French for, it's their unbashed hatred of Americans.

Maybe its your boyfriend but you are way too exposed to east europaism nowadays. Hating on jews and americans. Srsly?
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on September 22, 2011, 11:12:17 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 22, 2011, 05:54:02 AM
Why is this written like a poem?

'I pledge allegiance to France and egalitie,
the toleration of all speech and sexuality.
Should l'musulmane seek to advance his station,
we shall forthwith arrange a return migration.
'

Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Malthus on September 22, 2011, 11:14:50 AM
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on September 22, 2011, 11:12:17 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 22, 2011, 05:54:02 AM
Why is this written like a poem?

'I pledge allegiance to France and egalitie,
the toleration of all speech and sexuality.
Should l'musulmane seek to advance his station,
we shall forthwith arrange a return migration.
'

:lol:
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: crazy canuck on September 22, 2011, 11:38:58 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 22, 2011, 05:56:48 AM
If there is one thing I like the French for, it's their unbashed hatred of Americans.

Of all the things one might regret saying in life, this surely would be an example.  I have no idea how a person educated in law can single out a whole nation as deserving hatred of others.  I have no idea how someone who can argue so vehemently for protection of gay minority rights can at the same time act in this way.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 22, 2011, 11:47:35 AM
Martinus says trollish things all the time. I have no idea why you'd single out that post.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: crazy canuck on September 22, 2011, 11:50:20 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 22, 2011, 11:47:35 AM
Martinus says trollish things all the time. I have no idea why you'd single out that post.

I disregard most of what he says as being either factually inaccurate or silly.  This instance of applauding "hatred" however is something that is beyond the pale and in my view deserving of comment.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: The Brain on September 22, 2011, 11:51:27 AM
I hate America.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: crazy canuck on September 22, 2011, 11:52:26 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 22, 2011, 11:51:27 AM
I hate America.

But you love Americans - and their farm animals.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: The Brain on September 22, 2011, 11:53:49 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 22, 2011, 11:52:26 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 22, 2011, 11:51:27 AM
I hate America.

But you love Americans - and their farm animals.

Americans make farm animals look good.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Capetan Mihali on September 22, 2011, 11:55:00 AM
I think Marine's old-fashioned far-right anti-Americanism is kind of endearing.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 22, 2011, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 22, 2011, 11:51:27 AM
I hate America.

The worst part is she doesn't even know you exist. :(
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Ed Anger on September 22, 2011, 01:00:09 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 22, 2011, 11:52:26 AM
Quote from: The Brain on September 22, 2011, 11:51:27 AM
I hate America.

But you love Americans - and their farm animals.

And nuclear weapons
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Zoupa on September 22, 2011, 01:16:53 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 22, 2011, 05:55:57 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on September 22, 2011, 03:59:43 AM
I pray to God this moron doesn't get re-elected.

I like him. 
And all French schoolchildren should at least sing La Marseillaise.

Take pride in your Frenchiness, dammit.

I do. This man is Bush lite with more demagogy and populist BS. It's all about PR bullshit, ALL-THE-TIME. France is ideas and debates, Blum and de Gaulle, bearing and panache. Not this shit about trying to win an election at all costs, appealing to the 15% of tards that go to bed dreaming of the Maréchal.

I'm voting De Villepin  :sleep: For the first round anyways. Second round will of course be Aubry.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: AnchorClanker on September 22, 2011, 03:34:42 PM
Quoteappealing to the 15% of tards that go to bed dreaming of the Maréchal.

:lol:  Wow.  What a thought.  Is he really trying to poach them from Le Pen?
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Habsburg on September 22, 2011, 04:04:27 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 22, 2011, 05:56:48 AM
If there is one thing I like the French for, it's their unbashed hatred of Americans.

Let's not generalize.  The French adore me.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: DGuller on September 22, 2011, 04:37:00 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 22, 2011, 11:53:49 AM
Americans make farm animals look good.
Plastic surgery is not just for humans over here.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: HVC on September 22, 2011, 04:39:30 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 22, 2011, 04:37:00 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 22, 2011, 11:53:49 AM
Americans make farm animals look good.
Plastic surgery is not just for humans over here.
you laugh, but they're actually preforming plastic surgery on pets now (and not the docking and cropping of yore).
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: The Brain on September 22, 2011, 10:53:24 PM
Quote from: DGuller on September 22, 2011, 04:37:00 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 22, 2011, 11:53:49 AM
Americans make farm animals look good.
Plastic surgery is not just for humans over here.

:bash:
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 22, 2011, 10:56:57 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on September 22, 2011, 01:16:53 PM
I'm voting De Villepin  :sleep: For the first round anyways. Second round will of course be Aubry.

Oh, dear Christ.  Can't he get indicted for something? Anything?
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Zoupa on September 22, 2011, 11:15:51 PM
Quote from: AnchorClanker on September 22, 2011, 03:34:42 PM
Quoteappealing to the 15% of tards that go to bed dreaming of the Maréchal.

:lol:  Wow.  What a thought.  Is he really trying to poach them from Le Pen?

He's been relatively successful last time, so yeah, he's trying. It's not like it's a stretch for him anyways.

The man is hungarian after all.

Trianon, Tamas, TRIANON TRIANON TRIANON.  :P
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Zoupa on September 22, 2011, 11:18:02 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 22, 2011, 10:56:57 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on September 22, 2011, 01:16:53 PM
I'm voting De Villepin  :sleep: For the first round anyways. Second round will of course be Aubry.

Oh, dear Christ.  Can't he get indicted for something? Anything?

He got cleared from all allegations a few weeks back. The coast is clear for him and he's got the muslim vote.

I sure hope he goes for it, if only to burn magnificently during the first round. We need to make the midget sweat.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Scipio on September 22, 2011, 11:30:36 PM
The shocking thing is the idea that France actually matters, without someone like the Hun at the head.

Of course, as long as our President remains the world's punching bag, the French may get away with this lese majestie.  Of course, they invented it.  Quelle dommage.  Etc., Etc., Etc.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 23, 2011, 01:46:59 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on September 22, 2011, 01:16:53 PM

I'm voting De Villepin  :sleep: For the first round anyways. Second round will of course be Aubry.

De Villepin is just a poseur. As for the muslim vote, yes he's got a part of it.  Not enough. He's never been elected to any position anyways.
Aubry? Say goodbye to laïcité cf. swimming pools in Lille.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Berkut on September 23, 2011, 08:00:53 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 22, 2011, 11:38:58 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 22, 2011, 05:56:48 AM
If there is one thing I like the French for, it's their unbashed hatred of Americans.

Of all the things one might regret saying in life, this surely would be an example.  I have no idea how a person educated in law can single out a whole nation as deserving hatred of others.  I have no idea how someone who can argue so vehemently for protection of gay minority rights can at the same time act in this way.

Sorry CC, but I think I noted a few years ago how hypocritical Marty was considering his stance on gay rights and his enthusiastic support for just about any form of bigotry otherwise.

Internet Marty might as well wear a sheet with a triangular hood.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 24, 2011, 09:45:27 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 23, 2011, 08:00:53 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 22, 2011, 11:38:58 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 22, 2011, 05:56:48 AM
If there is one thing I like the French for, it's their unbashed hatred of Americans.

Of all the things one might regret saying in life, this surely would be an example.  I have no idea how a person educated in law can single out a whole nation as deserving hatred of others.  I have no idea how someone who can argue so vehemently for protection of gay minority rights can at the same time act in this way.

Sorry CC, but I think I noted a few years ago how hypocritical Marty was considering his stance on gay rights and his enthusiastic support for just about any form of bigotry otherwise.

Internet Marty might as well wear a sheet with a triangular hood.

He does, it's just pink.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Martinus on September 24, 2011, 01:53:43 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.soignorant.com%2Fiimg%2FThe%2520new%2520KKK.jpg&hash=e8441616f194cd907e81a128502c1e3a157c66ed)
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Sheilbh on September 24, 2011, 06:51:35 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on September 22, 2011, 11:55:00 AM
I think Marine's old-fashioned far-right anti-Americanism is kind of endearing.
It's actually the most tediously common in Europe.  Real frothing lefty anti-Americanism's a joy to encounter - and I think you guys see it more because it's more present on line.  Generally you're far more likely to come across the nationalist, pseudo-imperialist, sneering anti-Americanism which I find is simply rather tedious.

QuoteI'm voting De Villepin   For the first round anyways. Second round will of course be Aubry.
Don't you have any good candidates? :weep:

I mean I'm very keen on De Villepin.  But Aubry?  Can't Delanoe or Lang run?  Someone with vim and vigour?

It's a common theme though.  The Reublicans have such a pathetic field and Labour held hustings around the country to find the only many less popular than Nick Clegg :bleeding:

Edit:  Did Chevenement go properly mental or can he come back?  What about Juppe?
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Zoupa on September 24, 2011, 07:13:19 PM
The field on the left is very poor. Hollande is another énarque, Royal is insane, I could stand Montebourg if he wasn't so in love with his own image, Valls is a backstabber. Aubry is a pragmatist, and I hope somehow her father's ethics and principles were passed down.

On the center-left, you have Chevenement. He doesn't stand a chance and yeah he went a little bizarre. He won't crack 5% even if he runs.

You have Bayrou in the center. He's likable and resilient, but that's about it. Running on a mains propres platform, I can see him in the low teens for the first round. Probably won't give his base away for the second round, but I could see an alliance with the PS for Matignon.

Center right is a couple of bozos, Hervé Morin and Borloo. Morin (former defense minister under Sarkozy) has no charism, and Borloo is tainted by being much too cozy with Sarkozy over the years.

On the right is of course Sarkozy. Juppé won't run against him, Villepin might but I don't think he declared officially. I think he should, if only to take a few points away from Sarkozy in the first round. Who knows, it might be enough to clear Le Pen through to the second round against Hollande or Aubry.
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Ed Anger on September 24, 2011, 07:27:07 PM
If I was French (if I wasn't a Yankee, I'd rather be a frog), and there was no Bonapartist to vote for, I'd vote Le Pen for the lulz.  :)
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Martinus on September 25, 2011, 01:33:35 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on September 24, 2011, 07:13:19 PM
The field on the left is very poor. Hollande is another énarque, Royal is insane, I could stand Montebourg if he wasn't so in love with his own image, Valls is a backstabber. Aubry is a pragmatist, and I hope somehow her father's ethics and principles were passed down.

On the center-left, you have Chevenement. He doesn't stand a chance and yeah he went a little bizarre. He won't crack 5% even if he runs.

You have Bayrou in the center. He's likable and resilient, but that's about it. Running on a mains propres platform, I can see him in the low teens for the first round. Probably won't give his base away for the second round, but I could see an alliance with the PS for Matignon.

Center right is a couple of bozos, Hervé Morin and Borloo. Morin (former defense minister under Sarkozy) has no charism, and Borloo is tainted by being much too cozy with Sarkozy over the years.

On the right is of course Sarkozy. Juppé won't run against him, Villepin might but I don't think he declared officially. I think he should, if only to take a few points away from Sarkozy in the first round. Who knows, it might be enough to clear Le Pen through to the second round against Hollande or Aubry.

Is it considered acceptable in France for a party member to run against the sitting President from the same party?
Title: Re: French Pledge Of Allegiance Proposed For Teenagers
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 26, 2011, 05:55:38 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 25, 2011, 01:33:35 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on September 24, 2011, 07:13:19 PM
The field on the left is very poor. Hollande is another énarque, Royal is insane, I could stand Montebourg if he wasn't so in love with his own image, Valls is a backstabber. Aubry is a pragmatist, and I hope somehow her father's ethics and principles were passed down.

On the center-left, you have Chevenement. He doesn't stand a chance and yeah he went a little bizarre. He won't crack 5% even if he runs.

You have Bayrou in the center. He's likable and resilient, but that's about it. Running on a mains propres platform, I can see him in the low teens for the first round. Probably won't give his base away for the second round, but I could see an alliance with the PS for Matignon.

Center right is a couple of bozos, Hervé Morin and Borloo. Morin (former defense minister under Sarkozy) has no charism, and Borloo is tainted by being much too cozy with Sarkozy over the years.

On the right is of course Sarkozy. Juppé won't run against him, Villepin might but I don't think he declared officially. I think he should, if only to take a few points away from Sarkozy in the first round. Who knows, it might be enough to clear Le Pen through to the second round against Hollande or Aubry.

Is it considered acceptable in France for a party member to run against the sitting President from the same party?

If you win, yes.  :)