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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: mongers on June 30, 2011, 01:52:30 PM

Title: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: mongers on June 30, 2011, 01:52:30 PM

QuoteMother-in-law's manners e-mail: Right or wrong?
30 June 11 15:35

By Katie Fraser
BBC News


For any bride (or groom) to-be, one of the most nerve-wracking aspects of entering married life is winning over the future in-laws.

So when one young woman, Heidi Withers, returned from visiting hers in Devon, it's unlikely she welcomed the detailed critique of her manners that dropped into her inbox from her fiance's stepmother, Carolyn Bourne.

Having forwarded the e-mail that described her behaviour as "staggering in its uncouthness and lack of grace" to her friends, it then went viral, attracting attention from around the world.

Here are some examples from the missive, followed by some expert opinions.

"When a guest in another's house, you do not lie in bed until late morning in households that rise early - you fall in line with house norms."
.....

rest of item here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/magazine-13973331 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/magazine-13973331)


This page has the full text of the email:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Mother-In-Law-Email-Carolyn-Bournes-Stern-Etiquette-Message-To-Heidi-Withers-Goes-Viral/Article/201106416021513?f=rss (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Mother-In-Law-Email-Carolyn-Bournes-Stern-Etiquette-Message-To-Heidi-Withers-Goes-Viral/Article/201106416021513?f=rss)


QuoteThis is the full email from Mrs Bourne to Miss Withers:

It is high time someone explained to you about good manners. Yours are obvious by their absence and I feel sorry for you.

Unfortunately for Freddie, he has fallen in love with you and Freddie being Freddie, I gather it is not easy to reason with him or yet encourage him to consider how he might be able to help you.

It may just be possible to get through to you though. I do hope so.

Your behaviour on your visit to Devon during April was staggering in its uncouthness and lack of grace.

Unfortunately, this was not the first example of bad manners I have experienced from you.

If you want to be accepted by the wider Bourne family I suggest you take some guidance from experts with utmost haste.

There are plenty of finishing schools around. You would be an ideal candidate for the Ladette to Lady television series.

Please, for your own good, for Freddie's sake and for your future involvement with the Bourne family, do something as soon as possible.

Here are a few examples of your lack of manners:

When you are a guest in another's house, you do not declare what you will and will not eat - unless you are positively allergic to something.

You do not remark that you do not have enough food.

You do not start before everyone else.

You do not take additional helpings without being invited to by your host.

When a guest in another's house, you do not lie in bed until late morning in households that rise early - you fall in line with house norms.

You should never ever insult the family you are about to join at any time and most definitely not in public. I gather you passed this off as a joke but the reaction in the pub was one of shock, not laughter.

I have no idea whether you wrote to thank [your future sister-in-law] for the weekend but you should have hand-written a card to her.

You should have hand-written a card to me. You have never written to thank me when you have stayed at Houndspool.

[Your future sister-in-law] has quite the most exquisite manners of anyone I have ever come across. You would do well to follow her example.

You regularly draw attention to yourself. Perhaps you should ask yourself why.

It is tragic that you have diabetes. However, you aren't the only young person in the world who is a diabetic.

I know quite a few young people who have this condition, one of whom is getting married in June. I have never heard her discuss her condition.

She quietly gets on with it. She doesn't like being diabetic. Who would? You do not need to regale everyone with the details of your condition or use it as an excuse to draw attention to yourself. It is vulgar.

As a diabetic of long standing you must be acutely aware of the need to prepare yourself for extraordinary eventualities, the walk to Mothecombe beach being an example.

You are experienced enough to have prepared yourself appropriately.

No-one gets married in a castle unless they own it. It is brash, celebrity style behaviour.

I understand your parents are unable to contribute very much towards the cost of your wedding. (There is nothing wrong with that except that convention is such that one might presume they would have saved over the years for their daughters' marriages.)

If this is the case, it would be most ladylike and gracious to lower your sights and have a modest wedding as befits both your incomes.

One could be accused of thinking that Heidi Withers must be patting herself on the back for having caught a most eligible young man. I pity Freddie.

Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: citizen k on June 30, 2011, 02:09:49 PM
I pity Freddie too. :(

Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Drakken on June 30, 2011, 02:11:24 PM
Wait, people still need the approval of their in-laws nowadays?  :huh:
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Slargos on June 30, 2011, 02:24:58 PM
Sounds a bit exaggerated, but while some of the complaints may seem quaint it also does seem like the girl may be a bit of a chav.  :hmm:

Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Grey Fox on June 30, 2011, 02:28:51 PM
Brits. :lol:
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: grumbler on June 30, 2011, 02:33:07 PM
Quote from: citizen k on June 30, 2011, 02:09:49 PM
I pity Freddie too. :( 
Indeed.  He starts with a mother like that, and doesn't seem to have chosen his bride very well (though all I really know about her is that she forwarded the cow's email very foolishly). I fear the lad is fucked.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Drakken on June 30, 2011, 02:47:16 PM
Maybe that's why Freddie is marrying her - because the parents wouldn't approve, like girls going out with no-good thugs in a fit of teenage rebellion. The mother-in-law does read like an emasculating cow.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: The Brain on June 30, 2011, 03:23:17 PM
They both sound horrible.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: grumbler on June 30, 2011, 04:13:53 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 30, 2011, 03:23:17 PM
They both sound horrible.
Really?  What do you know of the bride, other than that her mother-in-law-to-be is an asshole and that the bride-to-be forwarded an email from an asshole?
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: DGuller on June 30, 2011, 04:39:07 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2011, 02:33:07 PM
Quote from: citizen k on June 30, 2011, 02:09:49 PM
I pity Freddie too. :( 
Indeed.  He starts with a mother like that, and doesn't seem to have chosen his bride very well (though all I really know about her is that she forwarded the cow's email very foolishly). I fear the lad is fucked.
Being fucked would be the only consolation.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: The Brain on June 30, 2011, 04:43:10 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2011, 04:13:53 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 30, 2011, 03:23:17 PM
They both sound horrible.
Really?  What do you know of the bride, other than that her mother-in-law-to-be is an asshole and that the bride-to-be forwarded an email from an asshole?

The description in the e-mail.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: DGuller on June 30, 2011, 04:51:05 PM
One has to assume that behavior itself was not imagined.  If so, the bride-to-be does come off a bit ditzy. 

Of course, it's hard to tell how overwhelming that behavior really is:  she could be a generally good person with rough edges and incomplete knolwedge of social norms, or she could be a vulgar trash.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 30, 2011, 05:02:06 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2011, 04:13:53 PM
What do you know of the bride, other than that her mother-in-law-to-be is an asshole and that the bride-to-be forwarded an email from an asshole?

I'd assume that she is in fact diabetic. And that she made a comment about wishing for a castle wedding, if not necessarily campaigning for one. :hmm:
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: grumbler on June 30, 2011, 05:03:40 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 30, 2011, 04:43:10 PM
The description in the e-mail.
But that's from a person who is desperately trying to find things to fault; and she doesnt actually describe any behavior, just says things like "When you are a guest in another's house, you do not declare what you will and will not eat - unless you are positively allergic to something."  Now, if The Cow put a bowl of mashed potatoes on the table and Heidi Withers said "eww, I refuse to eat potatoes," then the complaint is justified.  If she simply said, "oh, I am sorry; didn't Freddie tell you?  I'm Jewish/vegetarian/Hindu and cannot eat pork/meat/beef" then The Cow has no complaint, other than with Freddie for not telling her.

My point is that The Cow isn't a very reliable source of information.  Sorta like Hans, only ruder.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: The Brain on June 30, 2011, 05:05:05 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2011, 05:03:40 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 30, 2011, 04:43:10 PM
The description in the e-mail.
But that's from a person who is desperately trying to find things to fault; and she doesnt actually describe any behavior, just says things like "When you are a guest in another's house, you do not declare what you will and will not eat - unless you are positively allergic to something."  Now, if The Cow put a bowl of mashed potatoes on the table and Heidi Withers said "eww, I refuse to eat potatoes," then the complaint is justified.  If she simply said, "oh, I am sorry; didn't Freddie tell you?  I'm Jewish/vegetarian/Hindu and cannot eat pork/meat/beef" then The Cow has no complaint, other than with Freddie for not telling her.

My point is that The Cow isn't a very reliable source of information.  Sorta like Hans, only ruder.

I said "sound", not "are". Jesus Christ.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 30, 2011, 05:05:41 PM
Nothing wrong with saying "no thank you, I dislike potatoes." Other than the part about disliking potatoes.  :wacko:
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: grumbler on June 30, 2011, 05:05:58 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 30, 2011, 04:51:05 PM
One has to assume that behavior itself was not imagined.  If so, the bride-to-be does come off a bit ditzy. 

Of course, it's hard to tell how overwhelming that behavior really is:  she could be a generally good person with rough edges and incomplete knolwedge of social norms, or she could be a vulgar trash.
No actual behavior was described. WTF does "you regularly draw attention to yourself" even mean?  That's not a behavior, that's a description of a perceived result of a behavior.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: grumbler on June 30, 2011, 05:07:13 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 30, 2011, 05:05:05 PM
I said "sound", not "are". Jesus Christ.
They sound Jesus Christ, but are not Jesus Christ?  :(
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: grumbler on June 30, 2011, 05:10:05 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on June 30, 2011, 05:05:41 PM
Nothing wrong with saying "no thank you, I dislike potatoes." Other than the part about disliking potatoes.  :wacko:
Better to nibble a bit, and leave the rest uneaten.  The message is sent, and if the cook wants to know why you are not eating them, he or she can ask.  That's when you say you don't care for potatoes in general (and, if diplomatic, may say this even though you do like potatoes that are prepared more skillfully than those on your plate).
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: derspiess on June 30, 2011, 05:11:30 PM
Almost seems too much to be true-- I feel like I should check snopes before I decide to take it seriously.

That having been said, some of the trivial crap sounds similar to what I dealt with back in Delaware when I dated this one girl pretty seriously.  Her mom seemed a little odd from the beginning, and had a strict midnight curfew on her even though she was in her early 20s.  I won't even go into her rabid Catholicism.  But the rest of her family seemed to be pretty laid back.

Well, apparently after attending 2 or 3 of her family get-togethers, she started getting complaints from her grandma, uncles, and mom about how rude I acted.  Which caught me a bit off-guard as I didn't pick up on one bit of it.  Apparently my faux-pas were: not greeting elder family members before they greeted me, not raving enough about how awesome her grandma's mediocre spaghetti was, how I didn't finish every morsel of food on my plate, how I had the nerve to bring  Chilean wine to an Italian meal (???), and probably some other stuff I've purposely forgotten.  These were apparently some serious transgressions in her family.

All this stuff was apparently "Italian family tradition", though I've never gotten any other Italian-Americans or even real Italians to corroborate.  This is aside from the fact that her grandma was only half Italian and that got diluted with the following two generations.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: DGuller on June 30, 2011, 05:12:17 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2011, 05:05:58 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 30, 2011, 04:51:05 PM
One has to assume that behavior itself was not imagined.  If so, the bride-to-be does come off a bit ditzy. 

Of course, it's hard to tell how overwhelming that behavior really is:  she could be a generally good person with rough edges and incomplete knolwedge of social norms, or she could be a vulgar trash.
No actual behavior was described. WTF does "you regularly draw attention to yourself" even mean?  That's not a behavior, that's a description of a perceived result of a behavior.
I assume that when the cow says "You do not start before everyone else", the implication is that the bride did start before everyone else.  I assume that she did not just pick out rules at random from some social etiquette book and pasted it in an e-mail.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: The Brain on June 30, 2011, 05:12:56 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 30, 2011, 05:11:30 PM
Almost seems too much to be true-- I feel like I should check snopes before I decide to take it seriously.

That having been said, some of the trivial crap sounds similar to what I dealt with back in Delaware when I dated this one girl pretty seriously.  Her mom seemed a little odd from the beginning, and had a strict midnight curfew on her even though she was in her early 20s.  I won't even go into her rabid Catholicism.  But the rest of her family seemed to be pretty laid back.

Well, apparently after attending 2 or 3 of her family get-togethers, she started getting complaints from her grandma, uncles, and mom about how rude I acted.  Which caught me a bit off-guard as I didn't pick up on one bit of it.  Apparently my faux-pas were: not greeting elder family members before they greeted me, not raving enough about how awesome her grandma's mediocre spaghetti was, how I didn't finish every morsel of food on my plate, how I had the nerve to bring  Chilean wine to an Italian meal (???), and probably some other stuff I've purposely forgotten.  These were apparently some serious transgressions in her family.

All this stuff was apparently "Italian family tradition", though I've never gotten any other Italian-Americans or even real Italians to corroborate.  This is aside from the fact that her grandma was only half Italian and that got diluted with the following two generations.

America blows.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on June 30, 2011, 05:13:59 PM
The future mother-in-law's e-mail was very rude, she sounds like a bit of a Hyacinth Bucket.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Ed Anger on June 30, 2011, 05:15:12 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 30, 2011, 05:11:30 PM
Almost seems too much to be true-- I feel like I should check snopes before I decide to take it seriously.

That having been said, some of the trivial crap sounds similar to what I dealt with back in Delaware when I dated this one girl pretty seriously.  Her mom seemed a little odd from the beginning, and had a strict midnight curfew on her even though she was in her early 20s.  I won't even go into her rabid Catholicism.  But the rest of her family seemed to be pretty laid back.

Well, apparently after attending 2 or 3 of her family get-togethers, she started getting complaints from her grandma, uncles, and mom about how rude I acted.  Which caught me a bit off-guard as I didn't pick up on one bit of it.  Apparently my faux-pas were: not greeting elder family members before they greeted me, not raving enough about how awesome her grandma's mediocre spaghetti was, how I didn't finish every morsel of food on my plate, how I had the nerve to bring  Chilean wine to an Italian meal (???), and probably some other stuff I've purposely forgotten.  These were apparently some serious transgressions in her family.

All this stuff was apparently "Italian family tradition", though I've never gotten any other Italian-Americans or even real Italians to corroborate.  This is aside from the fact that her grandma was only half Italian and that got diluted with the following two generations.

My wife's grandma complained that I liked 'niggers', 'dagos' and 'chinks'.

You people have it easy.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: The Brain on June 30, 2011, 05:15:57 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 30, 2011, 05:15:12 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 30, 2011, 05:11:30 PM
Almost seems too much to be true-- I feel like I should check snopes before I decide to take it seriously.

That having been said, some of the trivial crap sounds similar to what I dealt with back in Delaware when I dated this one girl pretty seriously.  Her mom seemed a little odd from the beginning, and had a strict midnight curfew on her even though she was in her early 20s.  I won't even go into her rabid Catholicism.  But the rest of her family seemed to be pretty laid back.

Well, apparently after attending 2 or 3 of her family get-togethers, she started getting complaints from her grandma, uncles, and mom about how rude I acted.  Which caught me a bit off-guard as I didn't pick up on one bit of it.  Apparently my faux-pas were: not greeting elder family members before they greeted me, not raving enough about how awesome her grandma's mediocre spaghetti was, how I didn't finish every morsel of food on my plate, how I had the nerve to bring  Chilean wine to an Italian meal (???), and probably some other stuff I've purposely forgotten.  These were apparently some serious transgressions in her family.

All this stuff was apparently "Italian family tradition", though I've never gotten any other Italian-Americans or even real Italians to corroborate.  This is aside from the fact that her grandma was only half Italian and that got diluted with the following two generations.

My wife's grandma complained that I liked 'niggers', 'dagos' and 'chinks'.

You people have it easy.

WTF

Edit: Also, an age joke of some sort regarding her youth.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: DGuller on June 30, 2011, 05:18:12 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 30, 2011, 05:13:59 PM
The future mother-in-law's e-mail was very rude, she sounds like a bit of a Hyacinth Bucket.
That e-mail was definitely a far worse transgression than anything the bride is accused of.  One of the first rules of etiquette is that you do not put someone else down for their own lack of it.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: MadImmortalMan on June 30, 2011, 05:18:38 PM
Houndspool looks like a nice place tho.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F3%2F3f%2FThe_wide_entrance_to_Houndspool_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1327992.jpg%2F639px-The_wide_entrance_to_Houndspool_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1327992.jpg&hash=44e36580e4e3bc54c2f2280f9d634bcc88ab2c20)
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 30, 2011, 05:19:57 PM
Looks very Hobbity.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Slargos on June 30, 2011, 05:21:27 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 30, 2011, 05:12:17 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2011, 05:05:58 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 30, 2011, 04:51:05 PM
One has to assume that behavior itself was not imagined.  If so, the bride-to-be does come off a bit ditzy. 

Of course, it's hard to tell how overwhelming that behavior really is:  she could be a generally good person with rough edges and incomplete knolwedge of social norms, or she could be a vulgar trash.
No actual behavior was described. WTF does "you regularly draw attention to yourself" even mean?  That's not a behavior, that's a description of a perceived result of a behavior.
I assume that when the cow says "You do not start before everyone else", the implication is that the bride did start before everyone else.  I assume that she did not just pick out rules at random from some social etiquette book and pasted it in an e-mail.

[grumbler]But we can't know that.[/anal-retentive prick]
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: The Brain on June 30, 2011, 05:21:43 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 30, 2011, 05:18:12 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 30, 2011, 05:13:59 PM
The future mother-in-law's e-mail was very rude, she sounds like a bit of a Hyacinth Bucket.
That e-mail was definitely a far worse transgression than anything the bride is accused of.  One of the first rules of etiquette is that you do not put someone else down for their own lack of it.

Er... dude.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: chipwich on June 30, 2011, 05:22:29 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2011, 05:10:05 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on June 30, 2011, 05:05:41 PM
Nothing wrong with saying "no thank you, I dislike potatoes." Other than the part about disliking potatoes.  :wacko:
Better to nibble a bit, and leave the rest uneaten.  The message is sent, and if the cook wants to know why you are not eating them, he or she can ask.  That's when you say you don't care for potatoes in general (and, if diplomatic, may say this even though you do like potatoes that are prepared more skillfully than those on your plate).

Incorrect. The cook pays attention to what dishes are eaten by the family as a whole, not individuals. And one should never feel compelled to eat food they don't like.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: grumbler on June 30, 2011, 05:24:06 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 30, 2011, 05:12:17 PM
I assume that when the cow says "You do not start before everyone else", the implication is that the bride did start before everyone else.  I assume that she did not just pick out rules at random from some social etiquette book and pasted it in an e-mail.
Start what? Start drinking tea before the eldest person there started drinking hers?  Is that even a rule of etiquette?  "Starting first" isn't a behavior, it is a condition.

The Cow picked out insults and then backed those with vague admonitions and condescensions.  The bride may, indeed, have been at fault, but I don't take The Cow's word for it unsupported.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: grumbler on June 30, 2011, 05:31:42 PM
Quote from: chipwich on June 30, 2011, 05:22:29 PM
Incorrect. The cook pays attention to what dishes are eaten by the family as a whole, not individuals. And one should never feel compelled to eat food they don't like.
Incorrect.  One should at least taste everything placed before them unless religious or dietary rules preclude.  One cannot know whether they like a food in front of them without tasting it.  Even asparagus tastes good if absolutely fresh and prepared properly. 

Every cook I have had serve me knew what I ate and didn't eat.  Obviously, professional cooks back in the kitchen didn't, but they aren't entitled to know why I didn't care for something.

One doesn't have to have a large taste, and one shouldn't feel compelled to take more than that taste, I agree.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: derspiess on June 30, 2011, 08:59:09 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 30, 2011, 05:12:56 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 30, 2011, 05:11:30 PM
Almost seems too much to be true-- I feel like I should check snopes before I decide to take it seriously.

That having been said, some of the trivial crap sounds similar to what I dealt with back in Delaware when I dated this one girl pretty seriously.  Her mom seemed a little odd from the beginning, and had a strict midnight curfew on her even though she was in her early 20s.  I won't even go into her rabid Catholicism.  But the rest of her family seemed to be pretty laid back.

Well, apparently after attending 2 or 3 of her family get-togethers, she started getting complaints from her grandma, uncles, and mom about how rude I acted.  Which caught me a bit off-guard as I didn't pick up on one bit of it.  Apparently my faux-pas were: not greeting elder family members before they greeted me, not raving enough about how awesome her grandma's mediocre spaghetti was, how I didn't finish every morsel of food on my plate, how I had the nerve to bring  Chilean wine to an Italian meal (???), and probably some other stuff I've purposely forgotten.  These were apparently some serious transgressions in her family.

All this stuff was apparently "Italian family tradition", though I've never gotten any other Italian-Americans or even real Italians to corroborate.  This is aside from the fact that her grandma was only half Italian and that got diluted with the following two generations.

America blows.

Only time someone said something to my face was when her grandma freaked out about my gf's baby cousin getting close to a mirror when she was crawling on the floor.  I explained to her how the mirror was securely anchored to the wall, but she freaked out even more.  Turns out she was freaking out due to some stupid-ass superstition about babies dying if they see their own reflection in mirrors.

After a while, the warning signs really started to pile up.  Glad I never married into that family.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Camerus on June 30, 2011, 09:22:37 PM
The mother-in-law is a bitch, and the bride-to-be is likely (80%) vulgar and annoying.  Either way, you have to feel sorry for the guy.   :lol:

Though I suppose, he could deserve this girl.   :hmm:
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 30, 2011, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2011, 05:10:05 PM
Better to nibble a bit, and leave the rest uneaten.  The message is sent, and if the cook wants to know why you are not eating them, he or she can ask.  That's when you say you don't care for potatoes in general (and, if diplomatic, may say this even though you do like potatoes that are prepared more skillfully than those on your plate).

Seems wasteful to take food you're not going to eat. /shrug
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: MadImmortalMan on June 30, 2011, 10:22:56 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 30, 2011, 08:59:09 PM

Only time someone said something to my face was when her grandma freaked out about my gf's baby cousin getting close to a mirror when she was crawling on the floor.  I explained to her how the mirror was securely anchored to the wall, but she freaked out even more.  Turns out she was freaking out due to some stupid-ass superstition about babies dying if they see their own reflection in mirrors.

After a while, the warning signs really started to pile up.  Glad I never married into that family.


Well, infants are almost universally ugly.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: merithyn on June 30, 2011, 10:31:41 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2011, 05:31:42 PM
Incorrect.  One should at least taste everything placed before them unless religious or dietary rules preclude.  One cannot know whether they like a food in front of them without tasting it.  Even asparagus tastes good if absolutely fresh and prepared properly. 

Every cook I have had serve me knew what I ate and didn't eat.  Obviously, professional cooks back in the kitchen didn't, but they aren't entitled to know why I didn't care for something.

One doesn't have to have a large taste, and one shouldn't feel compelled to take more than that taste, I agree.

Rude or not, you'll not catch me eating anything that's festooned with onions and/or peppers. No point taking a bite as I know I won't like it, as I know that there is not a single way that onions or peppers can be cooked that I will like them. So if someone serves it, I simply pass the bowl along (if served family style) or say, "No, thank you" if being served by someone. If asked, I will say that I dislike onions and peppers. I don't consider it rude to state a preference, or lack thereof.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: MadImmortalMan on June 30, 2011, 10:43:40 PM
 :weep:

I weep for an onion and pepper deprived life.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: merithyn on June 30, 2011, 11:20:54 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 30, 2011, 10:43:40 PM
:weep:

I weep for an onion and pepper deprived life.

I wish I had one.  <_<

Instead, I end up with a slew of people who seem to think that they can make food with them in it, and I magically will just not notice. "I made my famous shepherd's pie for you! And don't worry; I shredded the onions so you won't taste them! You'll love it!"  :yuk: :yuk:
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Habbaku on June 30, 2011, 11:24:49 PM
I do hope that, one day, Meri's palate will mature and she will enjoy the fruits of the fields.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Slargos on July 01, 2011, 01:00:32 AM
Quote from: merithyn on June 30, 2011, 10:31:41 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2011, 05:31:42 PM
Incorrect.  One should at least taste everything placed before them unless religious or dietary rules preclude.  One cannot know whether they like a food in front of them without tasting it.  Even asparagus tastes good if absolutely fresh and prepared properly. 

Every cook I have had serve me knew what I ate and didn't eat.  Obviously, professional cooks back in the kitchen didn't, but they aren't entitled to know why I didn't care for something.

One doesn't have to have a large taste, and one shouldn't feel compelled to take more than that taste, I agree.

Rude or not, you'll not catch me eating anything that's festooned with onions and/or peppers. No point taking a bite as I know I won't like it, as I know that there is not a single way that onions or peppers can be cooked that I will like them. So if someone serves it, I simply pass the bowl along (if served family style) or say, "No, thank you" if being served by someone. If asked, I will say that I dislike onions and peppers. I don't consider it rude to state a preference, or lack thereof.

We already know that you yanks are a vulgar, ignorant and rude crowd. You don't need to elaborate on all the little details.  :P
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Slargos on July 01, 2011, 01:02:07 AM
Quote from: merithyn on June 30, 2011, 11:20:54 PM
And don't worry; I shredded the onions so you won't taste them! You'll love it!"  :yuk: :yuk:

:lol:

I love that one. My parents used to pull it all the time. It was never true.  :D

Of course, I eventually grew out of being a picky fucking child. :contract:
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 01, 2011, 01:21:48 AM
Pretty much every dish I know incorporates onions and peppers.  :lol:
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Slargos on July 01, 2011, 01:23:52 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on July 01, 2011, 01:21:48 AM
Pretty much every dish I know incorporates onions and peppers.  :lol:

We already know that you yanks are a vulgar, ignorant and rude crowd. You don't need to elaborate on all the little details.  (https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsmileys%2Flangsmiley%2Ftongue.gif&hash=cdee49b9dfcb6c8eebed901da39d83102a838def)
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Caliga on July 01, 2011, 05:31:25 AM
Quote from: merithyn on June 30, 2011, 11:20:54 PM
I wish I had one.  <_<
FUN FACT: Onions and peppers are delicious. :)
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Brazen on July 01, 2011, 05:36:05 AM
Reading between the lines, Freddie is gay. If not now, he will be driven to it soon.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: grumbler on July 01, 2011, 09:19:14 AM
Quote from: merithyn on June 30, 2011, 10:31:41 PM
Rude or not, you'll not catch me eating anything that's festooned with onions and/or peppers. No point taking a bite as I know I won't like it, as I know that there is not a single way that onions or peppers can be cooked that I will like them. So if someone serves it, I simply pass the bowl along (if served family style) or say, "No, thank you" if being served by someone. If asked, I will say that I dislike onions and peppers. I don't consider it rude to state a preference, or lack thereof.
That's a relatively low order of rudeness, and not at all uncommon, so you will not create much of a fuss by indulging it.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: derspiess on July 01, 2011, 09:27:42 AM
Quote from: Caliga on July 01, 2011, 05:31:25 AM
Quote from: merithyn on June 30, 2011, 11:20:54 PM
I wish I had one.  <_<
FUN FACT: Onions and peppers are delicious. :)

Espec. if sauteed or roasted :contract:
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: KRonn on July 01, 2011, 10:02:36 AM
Lol, this upcoming marriage isn't quite starting off overly well, now is it!?   :huh:
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: merithyn on July 01, 2011, 10:19:33 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 01, 2011, 09:27:42 AM
Quote from: Caliga on July 01, 2011, 05:31:25 AM
Quote from: merithyn on June 30, 2011, 11:20:54 PM
I wish I had one.  <_<
FUN FACT: Onions and peppers are delicious. :)

Espec. if sauteed or roasted :contract:

:x :x :x

I have tried oh so hard to like them because, well, they're in just about every fucking thing in American cooking. But I can't. I really, really can't. I like scallions okay, and leeks are one of my favorite foods, but yellow, white, and purple onions? Oh Christ. I think I just threw up a little in my mouth thinking about them.

:x
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Syt on July 01, 2011, 10:33:47 AM
I have a co-worker who hates onions, garlic and anything spicy. She has trouble finding things for lunch in restaurants' menus, unless she goes for schnitzel+fries or pizza.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: KRonn on July 01, 2011, 11:11:22 AM
I love onions, cooked that is. I have no desire for uncooked onions such as in salads. But I cook onions mix in with a lot in other foods like beef stew, some vegetable dishes.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: MadImmortalMan on July 01, 2011, 11:42:09 AM
You like scallions and leeks but not onions?  :lol:


That defies logic.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: DontSayBanana on July 01, 2011, 01:01:31 PM
Quote from: Slargos on June 30, 2011, 02:24:58 PM
Sounds a bit exaggerated, but while some of the complaints may seem quaint it also does seem like the girl may be a bit of a chav.  :hmm:

Not helping yourself to seconds is the only one that stands out.  I have a suspicion that the would-be mother-in-law is being a twit and that the diabetes and "announcing what you will and will not eat" are closely linked; the tone came across like "I've got nothing against diabetes, some of my best friends have diabetes..."  Actually, if she's hypoglacemic, that would also explain the asking for more food and starting early.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: DontSayBanana on July 01, 2011, 01:15:16 PM
Also, I'm kind of interested to hear how many people are complaining about having been in the girl's position- my problem has always been that we're kind of like Freddie's family- the money left the family a couple generations ago, and some of the sticks in the mud haven't gotten the message yet.  Only run-in I've ever had where S' family needed to say something to me was on chewing with my mouth open (an old jaw injury from a fistfight in grade school makes it hard for me to chew easily sometimes).
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: The Brain on July 01, 2011, 02:19:30 PM
Onions...

..are wonderful. -_-
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: The Larch on July 04, 2011, 05:25:02 AM
Quote from: merithyn on June 30, 2011, 10:31:41 PMRude or not, you'll not catch me eating anything that's festooned with onions and/or peppers.

And you call yourself Mexican?  :P
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Barrister on July 04, 2011, 09:51:50 AM
Quote from: merithyn on July 01, 2011, 10:19:33 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 01, 2011, 09:27:42 AM
Quote from: Caliga on July 01, 2011, 05:31:25 AM
Quote from: merithyn on June 30, 2011, 11:20:54 PM
I wish I had one.  <_<
FUN FACT: Onions and peppers are delicious. :)

Espec. if sauteed or roasted :contract:

:x :x :x

I have tried oh so hard to like them because, well, they're in just about every fucking thing in American cooking. But I can't. I really, really can't. I like scallions okay, and leeks are one of my favorite foods, but yellow, white, and purple onions? Oh Christ. I think I just threw up a little in my mouth thinking about them.

:x

That's madness.   :wacko:

But it goes to show that sometimes once someone makes up their mind no matter of logic or reason will change it.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Razgovory on July 04, 2011, 10:15:07 AM
I like onions and peppers. :unsure:
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Grey Fox on July 04, 2011, 11:10:19 AM
I hate Peppers. Sadly, I can't digest cooked Onions :(
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: garbon on July 04, 2011, 11:39:43 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2011, 05:31:42 PM
One cannot know whether they like a food in front of them without tasting it.  Even asparagus tastes good if absolutely fresh and prepared properly. 
Okay, Dad. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Barrister on July 04, 2011, 11:47:45 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 04, 2011, 11:39:43 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2011, 05:31:42 PM
One cannot know whether they like a food in front of them without tasting it.  Even asparagus tastes good if absolutely fresh and prepared properly. 
Okay, Dad. :rolleyes:

I don't get the "even asparagus".  Asparagus is delicious. :mmm:
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Habbaku on July 04, 2011, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 04, 2011, 11:10:19 AM
I hate Peppers. Sadly, I can't digest cooked Onions :(

:(
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: grumbler on July 04, 2011, 12:53:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 04, 2011, 11:47:45 AM
I don't get the "even asparagus".  Asparagus is delicious. :mmm:
I don't get what you don't get.  Asparagus is, indeed, delicious, as I noted.  It has to be fresh and not over-cooked, because if not fresh, or if over-cooked, it tastes like vomit, but fresh and well-cooked it is delicious.

It does make your piss look and smell bad, but one cannot have everything.  :cool:
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Legbiter on July 04, 2011, 06:51:25 PM
The MIL is a raging cunt-beast etiquette-wise for personally admonishing the DIL for any breaches of good form. What is traditional in these matters is to speak discreetly to the family member responsible for bringing the guests over, if there are any issues.  And Freddie? It is funny how a letter like this can cause the mind to imagine a thousand details about him based on just a few words.  :lol:

But let's look at her most salient points.

When you are a guest in another's house, you do not declare what you will and will not eat – unless you are positively allergic to something.

Correct.

you do not remark that you do not have enough food. You do not start before everyone else.

Correct.

You do not take additional helpings without being invited to by your host.

Er, unless this is a formal dinner where asking for seconds would break up the flow of courses I don't get this one. If the food is in bowls on the table - then you are free to take more so long as you don't do the the Norwegian Arm maneuver (that is reach way across someone's personal space to get at the salad, for example). Unless the DIL went back to the kitchen to get more, which would be very rude.

When a guest in another's house, you do not lie in bed until late morning in households that rise early – you fall in line with house norms.

Correct, but a good host would speak beforehand to the guest about when breakfast would be served OR go to pains to emphasize that the guest was free to relax and sleep in.

You should have hand-written a card to me. You have never written to thank me when you have stayed.

A cheese basket & a bottle of red along with a heartfell hug with copious amount of praise is a nice gesture in this regard. But I suspect that if the DIL had expressed her gratitude this would never have arisen as an issue.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: merithyn on July 04, 2011, 08:00:37 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 04, 2011, 09:51:50 AM

That's madness.   :wacko:

But it goes to show that sometimes once someone makes up their mind no matter of logic or reason will change it.

:huh:

How is it illogical or unreasonable to like or dislike a food? It's a matter of taste - and in this case, texture - not logic or reason. Your comment makes no sense, unless you think you can reason yourself into eating roasted cockroaches or fried dung.

Quote from: The Larch on July 04, 2011, 05:25:02 AM
And you call yourself Mexican?  :P

This caused a whole lot of problems at home, believe me. Hence the "I've pureed them, so you'll never know they're there!" comment. :blush:

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 01, 2011, 11:42:09 AM
You like scallions and leeks but not onions?  :lol:


That defies logic.

They have different tastes and textures, even if they're in the same family. :unsure: This one always throws me. If I can tell the difference between them, why can't those of you who like onions?
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: DGuller on July 04, 2011, 08:02:15 PM
I'm with Meri, some foods I just can't stand no matter what.  Like hummus, for example.  I've never tried it, but I'm convinced that I will never be able to tolerate it.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: merithyn on July 04, 2011, 08:04:34 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 04, 2011, 08:02:15 PM
I'm with Meri, some foods I just can't stand no matter what.  Like hummus, for example.  I've never tried it, but I'm convinced that I will never be able to tolerate it.

The difference is that I have eaten onions. I can't escape them! And because I have eaten them... many many times... I know that I really can't stand them. :P
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: DGuller on July 04, 2011, 08:09:22 PM
I stand by my decision.  Why eat hummus when I can just get a triple stacker?
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: garbon on July 04, 2011, 08:27:41 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 04, 2011, 08:09:22 PM
I stand by my decision.  Why eat hummus when I can just get a triple stacker?

Have you looked in the mirror lately?
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Razgovory on July 04, 2011, 08:29:06 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 04, 2011, 08:09:22 PM
I stand by my decision.  Why eat hummus when I can just get a triple stacker?

I've tried it.  It's not to bad.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: grumbler on July 04, 2011, 08:45:05 PM
Quote from: Legbiter on July 04, 2011, 06:51:25 PM
When you are a guest in another's house, you do not declare what you will and will not eat – unless you are positively allergic to something.

Correct.
Incorrect.  One can note that one observes kosher, or is a vegetarian, or is diabetic, as a reason for not eating a food.  Positive allergies fall in there as well, of course, but there are any reasons one can decline one food or request another.

Quoteyou do not remark that you do not have enough food. You do not start before everyone else.

Correct.
Possibly correct, possibly not correct.  One can ask for additional helpings of a dish one liked quite well, and one can often start eating or drinking first, depending on the circumstances.  Some hosts at sit-down meals won't eat until guests do, and if everyone waits until someone else eats, no one eats.


QuoteYou do not take additional helpings without being invited to by your host.

Er, unless this is a formal dinner where asking for seconds would break up the flow of courses I don't get this one. If the food is in bowls on the table - then you are free to take more so long as you don't do the the Norwegian Arm maneuver (that is reach way across someone's personal space to get at the salad, for example). Unless the DIL went back to the kitchen to get more, which would be very rude.

Agreed, and would note that this is "take additional helpings," which would mean the dishes are already on the table.  Unless MIL is being a positive asshole by torturing the people around the table with food that will not be allowed as seconds, why is it there, if not to be eaten?  Only a complete control freak would insist on initiating all movements towards seconds.

QuoteWhen a guest in another's house, you do not lie in bed until late morning in households that rise early – you fall in line with house norms.

Correct, but a good host would speak beforehand to the guest about when breakfast would be served OR go to pains to emphasize that the guest was free to relax and sleep in.

Depends.  I have never been to a house where breakfast is a formal meal.  One generally can arrive for breakfast, or skip it, at one's leisure.  One shouldn't expect to be fed if one skips breakfast, of course, unless that was noted as the fashion of the house (which it often is, with breakfast being DIY).  If the host wants breakfast to be a formal meal then, as you note, he or she has to be specific on times, dress, and the like, just as for other formal meals.

QuoteYou should have hand-written a card to me. You have never written to thank me when you have stayed.

A cheese basket & a bottle of red along with a heartfell hug with copious amount of praise is a nice gesture in this regard. But I suspect that if the DIL had expressed her gratitude this would never have arisen as an issue.
Yeah, the hand-written thank-you note is still formally required, but that requirement is often more honored in the breach, I am afraid.  The only thing more horrifically bad-mannered than not sending a thank-you note is sending a note whining about not receiving a thank-you note, however.  :P
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: DGuller on July 04, 2011, 09:00:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 04, 2011, 08:27:41 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 04, 2011, 08:09:22 PM
I stand by my decision.  Why eat hummus when I can just get a triple stacker?

Have you looked in the mirror lately?
I look in the mirror all the time.  Why are you asking?
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 04, 2011, 09:04:22 PM
Onions are delicious in all forms, peppers I prefer raw.
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: garbon on July 04, 2011, 09:18:51 PM
I'm negatively allergic. :(
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: AnchorClanker on July 04, 2011, 11:02:14 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 04, 2011, 08:02:15 PM
I'm with Meri, some foods I just can't stand no matter what.  Like hummus, for example.  I've never tried it, but I'm convinced that I will never be able to tolerate it.

I've never understood this mentality - if you haven't tasted it, how do you know?
Why bother spending any mental energy 'deciding' if you can tolerate something?

BTW, hummus is quite nice.  It's watermelons/cantelope/honeydew that I absolutely can't stand.   :lol:
Title: Re: The Future Mother-in-law draws blood.
Post by: Razgovory on July 04, 2011, 11:08:37 PM
Well there are a few things I will not try to eat.  For instance insects, spiders, most bugs that aren't a crab, shrimp, or lobster.  Generally I don't want to eat something that is looking at me while I'm doing it.  Also things that would likely kill me, such as poisons.  I probably wouldn't be incline to eat another human being.  There's likely something things I'm forgetting.