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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: viper37 on June 23, 2011, 09:08:27 PM

Title: Top 10 most famous political misquotes
Post by: viper37 on June 23, 2011, 09:08:27 PM
Interesting (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/0603/Political-misquotes-The-10-most-famous-things-never-actually-said/I-can-see-Russia-from-my-house!-Sarah-Palin)

Sarah Palin didn't see Russia from her backyard and Al Gore never invented the internet.  Shocking!
Title: Re: Top 10 most famous political misquotes
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on June 23, 2011, 10:41:33 PM
The Brain is one of those, something to do with Machiavelli... :hmm:
Title: Re: Top 10 most famous political misquotes
Post by: Razgovory on June 24, 2011, 12:04:38 AM
I actually knew all of these.  Except the Deng one (which I never heard of the original quote to begin with).  I thought everyone knew that these were misattributed.  :unsure:

The only Deng quote I know of regards cats.
Title: Re: Top 10 most famous political misquotes
Post by: grumbler on June 24, 2011, 12:07:11 AM
I have only heard the Stalin and Marie Antoinette sayings actually attributed to those speakers.  The rest are pretty widely known to be untrue, except for the Kennedy quote, which the paper desperately tries to call "bogus" when, in fact, one could, indeed interpret Kennedy as saying he was a jelly doughnut if one ignored context.  The speechwriter who have him the phrase was from Berlin and so had forgotten that, outside Berlin, ein Berliner was, indeed, a jelly doughnut!
Title: Re: Top 10 most famous political misquotes
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 24, 2011, 12:55:33 AM
For Christ's sake g, the man's dead.  Leave it be.
Title: Re: Top 10 most famous political misquotes
Post by: Martinus on June 24, 2011, 01:49:55 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 24, 2011, 12:07:11 AM
I have only heard the Stalin and Marie Antoinette sayings actually attributed to those speakers.  The rest are pretty widely known to be untrue, except for the Kennedy quote, which the paper desperately tries to call "bogus" when, in fact, one could, indeed interpret Kennedy as saying he was a jelly doughnut if one ignored context.  The speechwriter who have him the phrase was from Berlin and so had forgotten that, outside Berlin, ein Berliner was, indeed, a jelly doughnut!

I fail to see how that is relevant in the context of the explanation offered by the article. "Polka" in Polish means both a female Pole and (when written in low cap) a type of song/music piece originating from the Czech republic, but when we have "Instytut Matki Polki" it is quite clear it means the "Institute of Polish Mothers", and not an institutes of your mother's Czech songs. If a racist panslavist said "I'm a white Russian", it would be obvious he was not referring to a cocktail, etc.

It's just another example of your complete inability to grasp context and nuance in interpersonal communication.
Title: Re: Top 10 most famous political misquotes
Post by: Slargos on June 24, 2011, 01:51:51 AM
Why do you let him bait you into argument?

Whatever you do, don't look into his eyes.  :cthulu:
Title: Re: Top 10 most famous political misquotes
Post by: Martinus on June 24, 2011, 01:55:05 AM
Quote from: Slargos on June 24, 2011, 01:51:51 AM
Why do you let him bait you into argument?

Whatever you do, don't look into his eyes.  :cthulu:

I am not baited really - I just find it funny how when you actually figure out his shtick, it seems like this is less of a trolling pose, and more of a character/personality flaw.
Title: Re: Top 10 most famous political misquotes
Post by: Zanza on June 24, 2011, 02:37:20 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 24, 2011, 12:07:11 AM
I have only heard the Stalin and Marie Antoinette sayings actually attributed to those speakers.  The rest are pretty widely known to be untrue, except for the Kennedy quote, which the paper desperately tries to call "bogus" when, in fact, one could, indeed interpret Kennedy as saying he was a jelly doughnut if one ignored context.  The speechwriter who have him the phrase was from Berlin and so had forgotten that, outside Berlin, ein Berliner was, indeed, a jelly doughnut!
As homonyms are pretty obvious to figure out for native speakers, I never got why the English speaking world thinks that he might have said that he is a jelly donut. It was perfectly clear what he wanted to express for Germans, even without context. It's the only interpretation of the sentence that makes sense.
Title: Re: Top 10 most famous political misquotes
Post by: Slargos on June 24, 2011, 02:40:12 AM
Quote from: Zanza on June 24, 2011, 02:37:20 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 24, 2011, 12:07:11 AM
I have only heard the Stalin and Marie Antoinette sayings actually attributed to those speakers.  The rest are pretty widely known to be untrue, except for the Kennedy quote, which the paper desperately tries to call "bogus" when, in fact, one could, indeed interpret Kennedy as saying he was a jelly doughnut if one ignored context.  The speechwriter who have him the phrase was from Berlin and so had forgotten that, outside Berlin, ein Berliner was, indeed, a jelly doughnut!
As homonyms are pretty obvious to figure out for native speakers, I never got why the English speaking world thinks that he might have said that he is a jelly donut. It was perfectly clear what he wanted to express for Germans, even without context. It's the only interpretation of the sentence that makes sense.

Don't! By striking him down you're making him more powerful than you can ever imagine! :weep:
Title: Re: Top 10 most famous political misquotes
Post by: The Brain on June 24, 2011, 03:14:51 AM
It's too bad we don't know the exact wording of Hitler's order for the final solution that he never gave.
Title: Re: Top 10 most famous political misquotes
Post by: grumbler on June 24, 2011, 06:43:13 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 24, 2011, 01:49:55 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 24, 2011, 12:07:11 AM
I have only heard the Stalin and Marie Antoinette sayings actually attributed to those speakers.  The rest are pretty widely known to be untrue, except for the Kennedy quote, which the paper desperately tries to call "bogus" when, in fact, one could, indeed interpret Kennedy as saying he was a jelly doughnut if one ignored context.  The speechwriter who have him the phrase was from Berlin and so had forgotten that, outside Berlin, ein Berliner was, indeed, a jelly doughnut!

I fail to see how that is relevant in the context of the explanation offered by the article. "Polka" in Polish means both a female Pole and (when written in low cap) a type of song/music piece originating from the Czech republic, but when we have "Instytut Matki Polki" it is quite clear it means the "Institute of Polish Mothers", and not an institutes of your mother's Czech songs. If a racist panslavist said "I'm a white Russian", it would be obvious he was not referring to a cocktail, etc.

It's just another example of your complete inability to grasp context and nuance in interpersonal communication.
Amusingly, I think this is a perfect example of your inability to read and desperate need to attack when hysterical, as well as your complete inability to grasp context and nuance in interpersonal communication

I said that "one could, indeed interpret Kennedy as saying he was a jelly doughnut if one ignored context"  Clearly, in the context his wording made complete sense, and meant that he was, metaphorically, a Berliner like his audience.  He wasn't making a joke, which would be the only context in which "I am a Jelly doughnut" would have made any sense whatever.
Title: Re: Top 10 most famous political misquotes
Post by: grumbler on June 24, 2011, 06:53:23 AM
Quote from: Zanza on June 24, 2011, 02:37:20 AM
As homonyms are pretty obvious to figure out for native speakers, I never got why the English speaking world thinks that he might have said that he is a jelly donut. It was perfectly clear what he wanted to express for Germans, even without context. It's the only interpretation of the sentence that makes sense.
The word Berliner doesn't mean a jelly doughnut in English, so I think this is likelier a German joke than an English or American one.

No one believes that Kennedy meant that he was a jelly doughnut, insofar as I know.
Title: Re: Top 10 most famous political misquotes
Post by: Zanza on June 24, 2011, 06:57:50 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 24, 2011, 06:53:23 AM
The word Berliner doesn't mean a jelly doughnut in English, so I think this is likelier a German joke than an English or American one.
Must be one of those infamous unfunny German jokes then.
Title: Re: Top 10 most famous political misquotes
Post by: grumbler on June 24, 2011, 07:06:19 AM
Quote from: Zanza on June 24, 2011, 06:57:50 AM
Must be one of those infamous unfunny German jokes then.
I thought "unfunny" was redundant when applied to "German jokes."  :huh:
Title: Re: Top 10 most famous political misquotes
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 24, 2011, 07:11:48 AM
This came up before.  I  ,along with a lot of Americans, had thought the insertion of the article transformed Kennedy into a jelly donut, but Zanza explained back then you can still be the nationality with the article.
Title: Re: Top 10 most famous political misquotes
Post by: Camerus on June 24, 2011, 07:21:49 AM
That Dan Quale quote is higher on the list than Caesar's last words?    :hmm:
Title: Re: Top 10 most famous political misquotes
Post by: dps on June 24, 2011, 02:37:58 PM
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on June 24, 2011, 07:21:49 AM
That Dan Quale quote is higher on the list than Caesar's last words?    :hmm:

Well, I would assume that most people know that Caesar's last words were put into his mouth by Shakespeare, but think that Quayle actually said what he didn't say.
Title: Re: Top 10 most famous political misquotes
Post by: grumbler on June 24, 2011, 03:17:28 PM
Quote from: dps on June 24, 2011, 02:37:58 PM
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on June 24, 2011, 07:21:49 AM
That Dan Quale quote is higher on the list than Caesar's last words?    :hmm:

Well, I would assume that most people know that Caesar's last words were put into his mouth by Shakespeare, but think that Quayle actually said what he didn't say.
I don't know of anyone who actually thought Dan Quayle said what the CSM quotes him as allegedly saying.  There was a much simpler version going around as a joke, but everyone knew it was a joke.
Title: Re: Top 10 most famous political misquotes
Post by: dps on June 24, 2011, 03:31:59 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 24, 2011, 03:17:28 PM
Quote from: dps on June 24, 2011, 02:37:58 PM
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on June 24, 2011, 07:21:49 AM
That Dan Quale quote is higher on the list than Caesar's last words?    :hmm:

Well, I would assume that most people know that Caesar's last words were put into his mouth by Shakespeare, but think that Quayle actually said what he didn't say.
I don't know of anyone who actually thought Dan Quayle said what the CSM quotes him as allegedly saying.  There was a much simpler version going around as a joke, but everyone knew it was a joke.

Eh, back then a lot of people were using Johnny Carson or Letterman as their primary news source.