This seems like the kind of op-ed piece that will stimulate discussion here. :)
QuoteWhat If Jews Had Followed the Palestinian Path?
Postwar Jewish refugees left everything they had in Europe—no 'right of return' requested.
By WARREN KOZAK
It is doubtful that there has ever been a more miserable human refuse than Jewish survivors after World War II. Starving, emaciated, stateless—they were not welcomed back by countries where they had lived for generations as assimilated and educated citizens. Germany was no place to return to and in Kielce, Poland, 40 Jews who survived the Holocaust were killed in a pogrom one year after the war ended. The European Jew, circa 1945, quickly went from victim to international refugee disaster.
Yet within a very brief time, this epic calamity disappeared, so much so that few people today even remember the period. How did this happen in an era when Palestinian refugees have continued to be stateless for generations?
In 1945, there were hundreds of thousands of Jewish survivors living in DP Camps (displaced persons) across Europe. They were fed and clothed by Jewish and international relief organizations. Had the world's Jewish population played this situation as the Arabs and Palestinians have, everything would look very different today.
To begin with, the Jews would all still be living in these DP camps, only now the camps would have become squalid ghettos throughout Europe. The refugees would continue to be fed and clothed by a committee similar to UNRWA—the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (paid for mostly by the United States since 1948). Blessed with one of the world's highest birth rates, they would now number in the many millions. And 66 years later, new generations, fed on a mixture of hate and lies against the Europeans, would now seethe with anger.
Sometime in the early 1960s, the Jewish leadership of these refugee camps, having been trained in Moscow to wreak havoc on the West (as Yasser Arafat was) would have started to employ terrorism to shake down governments. Airplane hijackings in the 1970s would have been followed by passenger killings. There would have been attacks on high-profile targets as well—say, the German or Polish Olympic teams.
By the 1990s, the real mayhem would have begun. Raised on victimhood and used as cannon fodder by corrupt leaders, a generation of younger Jews would be blowing up buses, restaurants and themselves. The billions of dollars extorted from various governments would not have gone to the inhabitants of the camps. The money would be in the Swiss bank accounts of the refugees' famous and flamboyant leaders and their lackies.
So now it's the present, generations past the end of World War II, and the festering Jewish refugee problem throughout Europe has absolutely no end in sight. The worst part of this story would be the wasted lives of millions of human beings in the camps—inventions not invented, illnesses not cured, high-tech startups not started up, symphonies and books not written—a real cultural and spiritual desert.
None of this happened, of course. Instead, the Jewish refugees returned to their ancestral homeland. They left everything they had in Europe and turned their backs on the Continent—no "right of return" requested. They were welcomed by the 650,000 Jewish residents of Israel.
An additional 700,000 Jewish refugees flooded into the new state from Arab lands after they were summarily kicked out. Again losing everything after generations in one place; again welcomed in their new home.
In Israel, they did it all the hard way. They built a new country from scratch with roads, housing and schools. They created agricultural collectives to feed their people. They created a successful economy without domestic oil, and they built one of the world's most vibrant democracies in a region sadly devoid of free thought.
Yes, the Israelis did all this with the financial assistance of Jews around the world and others who helped get them on their feet so they could take care of themselves. These outsiders did not ignore them, or demean them, or use them as pawns in their own political schemes—as the Arab nations have done with the Palestinians.
I imagine the argument will be made that while the Jews may have achieved all this, they did not have their land stolen from them. This is, of course, a canard, another convenient lie. They did lose property all over Europe and the Mideast. And there was never an independent Palestine run by Palestinian Arabs. Ever. Jews and Arabs lived in this area controlled first by the Turks and then by the British. The U.N. offered the two-state solution that we hear so much about in 1947. The problem then, and now, is that it was accepted by only one party, Israel. No doubt, the situation of Arab residents of the Middle East back then may have been difficult, but it is incomprehensible that their lot was worse than that of the Jews at the end of World War II.
We don't hear about any of this because giving human beings hope and purpose doesn't make great copy. Squalor, victimhood and terror are always more exciting. Perhaps in the end, the greatest crime of the Jews was that they quietly created something from nothing. And in the process, they transformed themselves.
Golda Meir is credited with having said that if the Jews had not fought back against the Arab armies and had been destroyed in 1948, they would have received the most beautiful eulogies throughout the world. Instead, they chose to stand their ground and defend themselves. And in winning, they received the world's condemnation. Meir said she would take the condemnation over the eulogies.
Mr. Kozak is the author of "LeMay: The Life and Wars of General Curtis LeMay" (Regnery, 2009).
But the Jews did engage in a heavy campaign of terrorism, which stopped once they achieved their goal. Also, the Palestinians didn't have the advantage of having enough American money backing them to be able to engage in an aggressive war of conquest, and such a thing wasn't really practical in the Cold War era, which made following the example of the Jews impossible.
At any rate, in the alternate universe they postulate, the Jews would simply be exterminated, as the DP camps would turn into extermination camps. Continental Europeans can't be trusted not to kill Jews.
If you help Jews they murder you and make the murderers prime ministers. RIP Folke Bernadotte.
Jesus, you guys still go on about this? He wasn't even shot that many times.
QuoteAn additional 700,000 Jewish refugees flooded into the new state from Arab lands after they were summarily kicked out. Again losing everything after generations in one place; again welcomed in their new home.
:lol:
So what's the author's point? Palestinians as a people are dumber than Jews?
Quote from: DGuller on June 20, 2011, 12:41:43 PM
Jesus, you guys still go on about this? He wasn't even shot that many times.
And he didn't even have to pay for the bullets; the Stern Gang gave them away free of charge!
Quote from: Zoupa on June 20, 2011, 12:46:55 PM
:lol:
So what's the author's point? Palestinians as a people are dumber than Jews?
I read it more like "Jews are a united people, while Muslims are a fractured people, and that is a big reason why the Jews have succeeded and the Palestinians have not."
Obviously not what he meant, but if one isn't familiar with the historical context, you could imagine that he's suggesting that the Palestinians leave the Middle East and carve out a nation for themselves in Euorpe.
Quote from: Zoupa on June 20, 2011, 12:46:55 PM
So what's the author's point? Palestinians as a people are dumber than Jews?
Not sure but damn if the Arabs have not used the Pals as a weapon instead of trying to help them out. It is illegal for the Pals to immigrate into most Arab nations. That is pretty sad.
Quote from: dps on June 20, 2011, 01:02:48 PM
Obviously not what he meant, but if one isn't familiar with the historical context, you could imagine that he's suggesting that the Palestinians leave the Middle East and carve out a nation for themselves in Euorpe.
Southern Spain sounds good. There's a historical argument to be made, several centuries old. Sounds good to me. :)
Quote from: Zoupa on June 20, 2011, 01:39:54 PMSouthern Spain sounds good. There's a historical argument to be made, several centuries old. Sounds good to me. :)
I think Sweden's a better bet. According to some it's already happened, so we might as well roll with it.
Quote from: Zoupa on June 20, 2011, 01:39:54 PM
Quote from: dps on June 20, 2011, 01:02:48 PM
Obviously not what he meant, but if one isn't familiar with the historical context, you could imagine that he's suggesting that the Palestinians leave the Middle East and carve out a nation for themselves in Euorpe.
Southern Spain sounds good. There's a historical argument to be made, several centuries old. Sounds good to me. :)
Or the Southwestern third of France.
Septimania? That's way less than a third, dude.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 20, 2011, 02:33:46 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on June 20, 2011, 01:39:54 PM
Quote from: dps on June 20, 2011, 01:02:48 PM
Obviously not what he meant, but if one isn't familiar with the historical context, you could imagine that he's suggesting that the Palestinians leave the Middle East and carve out a nation for themselves in Euorpe.
Southern Spain sounds good. There's a historical argument to be made, several centuries old. Sounds good to me. :)
Or the Southwestern third of France.
Nice try. :)
Quote from: dps on June 20, 2011, 01:02:48 PM
Obviously not what he meant, but if one isn't familiar with the historical context, you could imagine that he's suggesting that the Palestinians leave the Middle East and carve out a nation for themselves in Euorpe.
Ancestral lands of Arabs are not in Europe. Saoudi-Arabia though..
Hmm. So what the author is saying is that the Palestinians should return to their homeland too? :hmm:
Quote from: Caliga on June 20, 2011, 02:38:14 PM
Septimania? That's way less than a third, dude.
I was thinking of drawing the line as about as far as they got. Tours.
Quote from: Zoupa on June 20, 2011, 01:39:54 PM
Southern Spain sounds good. There's a historical argument to be made, several centuries old. Sounds good to me. :)
We already sold most of that to the Brits, though.
Quote from: Iormlund on June 20, 2011, 06:13:38 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on June 20, 2011, 01:39:54 PM
Southern Spain sounds good. There's a historical argument to be made, several centuries old. Sounds good to me. :)
We already sold most of that to the Brits, though.
Oh come on, Gibraltar is not that big :p
Quote from: Zoupa on June 20, 2011, 02:45:10 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 20, 2011, 02:33:46 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on June 20, 2011, 01:39:54 PM
Quote from: dps on June 20, 2011, 01:02:48 PM
Obviously not what he meant, but if one isn't familiar with the historical context, you could imagine that he's suggesting that the Palestinians leave the Middle East and carve out a nation for themselves in Euorpe.
Southern Spain sounds good. There's a historical argument to be made, several centuries old. Sounds good to me. :)
Or the Southwestern third of France.
Nice try. :)
Actually, Southeastern of France for Marseille. I don't want them messing with Bordeaux. I just don't care about
pastis
err no. Alternate history fail.
These Jews would have been citizens of European countries. The governments would have helped them get back into society. Australia, Canada, the US, etc... would have heavily advertised for mayn of them to move there.
Quote from: Tyr on June 21, 2011, 03:40:25 PM
err no. Alternate history fail.
These Jews would have been citizens of European countries. The governments would have helped them get back into society. Australia, Canada, the US, etc... would have heavily advertised for mayn of them to move there.
Like the Roma?
Quote from: Caliga on June 20, 2011, 12:57:04 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on June 20, 2011, 12:46:55 PM
:lol:
So what's the author's point? Palestinians as a people are dumber than Jews?
I read it more like "Jews are a united people, while Muslims are a fractured people, and that is a big reason why the Jews have succeeded and the Palestinians have not."
I wonder if the situation might have resolved itself by now if the PLO had won in Jordan in 1970.
Probably not. Israel would simply border Iraq and Saudi Arabia.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 21, 2011, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 21, 2011, 03:40:25 PM
err no. Alternate history fail.
These Jews would have been citizens of European countries. The governments would have helped them get back into society. Australia, Canada, the US, etc... would have heavily advertised for mayn of them to move there.
Like the Roma?
Gypsies are voluntary outsiders. They have a reputation historically for crime and all sorts of foul play which can't be so easily brushed aside as stupid superstition as with much of the bad stuff about the Jews.
Jews are wannabe insiders who for religious reasons have been excluded historically. They have a reputation for being good businessmen. In the less crazy parts of the continent they are usually pretty well regarded.
Big difference.
Also of course- governments have tried to integrate the Roma into society. Ranging from Romania's over the top attempts to make them settle and become normal members of society to standard western europe extension of various rights to them and allowing them to get normal jobs if they want.
Quote from: Tyr on June 21, 2011, 03:40:25 PM
err no. Alternate history fail.
These Jews would have been citizens of European countries. The governments would have helped them get back into society. Australia, Canada, the US, etc... would have heavily advertised for mayn of them to move there.
:lol:
Real history fail. Eastern Europe wasn't really interested in getting those Jews back, and the civilized world wasn't interested in adopting all those Eastern barbarians. Learn your Israeli history.
Quote from: Tyr on June 21, 2011, 03:40:25 PM
err no. Alternate history fail.
These Jews would have been citizens of European countries. The governments would have helped them get back into society.
On what do you base this statement?
There is absolutely no anti-Semitism in Poland, Russia, and Ukraine today. Tyr is right.
Quote from: Tyr on June 21, 2011, 04:55:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 21, 2011, 04:36:44 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 21, 2011, 03:40:25 PM
err no. Alternate history fail.
These Jews would have been citizens of European countries. The governments would have helped them get back into society. Australia, Canada, the US, etc... would have heavily advertised for mayn of them to move there.
Like the Roma?
Gypsies are voluntary outsiders. They have a reputation historically for crime and all sorts of foul play which can't be so easily brushed aside as stupid superstition as with much of the bad stuff about the Jews.
These were common accusations directed at Jews in the 19th and early 20th century.
If the Jews had lost the '48 war I imagine they would have migrated to the new world. The US if possible, but many would have had to settle for South America. Those that survived of course. I suspect that the Arabs would have killed a large number of them if they could. It would have been difficult to go back to Europe and many never had even lived in Europe.
Quote from: JonasSalk on June 21, 2011, 05:42:25 PM
There is absolutely no anti-Semitism in Poland, Russia, and Ukraine today. Tyr is right.
It's amazing how a substantial drop in the Jewish population does wonders in reducing anti-semitism.
Quote
These were common accusations directed at Jews in the 19th and early 20th century.
Times when stupid superstition still ruled the roost and people believed Jews were stealing babies for their blood rituals.
Quote from: JonasSalk on June 21, 2011, 05:42:25 PM
There is absolutely no anti-Semitism in Poland, Russia, and Ukraine today. Tyr is right.
Note I said the non-crazy parts of Europe.
Which places are the non-crazy parts of Europe?
Quote from: Razgovory on June 21, 2011, 07:14:13 PM
Which places are the non-crazy parts of Europe?
Where they don't flush and draw swastikas in their blood.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 21, 2011, 07:14:13 PM
Which places are the non-crazy parts of Europe?
The financial district of London, and Gibraltar. That's about it.
Quote from: dps on June 21, 2011, 07:56:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 21, 2011, 07:14:13 PM
Which places are the non-crazy parts of Europe?
The financial district of London, and Gibraltar. That's about it.
I am inclined to agree.
Quote from: Tyr on June 21, 2011, 06:29:35 PMTimes when stupid superstition still ruled the roost and people believed Jews were stealing babies for their blood rituals.
Those times still go on throughout the Islamic world.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 21, 2011, 07:14:13 PM
Which places are the non-crazy parts of Europe?
Canada, exclusive of Quebec, and the United States.
Quote from: Ideologue on June 22, 2011, 09:30:55 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 21, 2011, 07:14:13 PM
Which places are the non-crazy parts of Europe?
Canada, exclusive of Quebec, and the United States.
Stop using Tim's maps. Thanks.
Portugal is relatively anti-semite free. They still hate black people though.
Quote from: HVC on June 22, 2011, 09:41:43 AM
Portugal is relatively anti-semite free. They still hate black people though.
Relatively free of Semites as well.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 22, 2011, 11:34:03 AM
Quote from: HVC on June 22, 2011, 09:41:43 AM
Portugal is relatively anti-semite free. They still hate black people though.
Relatively free of Semites as well.
Actually there are quite a few there (besides the ones living in secret due to medeival tradition). a very large percentage of pork chops are decendants of jews too, whether they know it or not.
It seems that there are less then 10,000 in a country of over 10,000,000.