Fucking crazy :wacko:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,763402,00.html
I agree. I'm still not convinced that lowering the voting age to 18 was a good idea.
If anything it should be raised. :rolleyes:
If we start that shit here we'll end up with President Lady Gaga eventually.
Quote from: Caliga on May 19, 2011, 07:56:30 AM
If anything it should be raised. :rolleyes:
If we start that shit here we'll end up with President Lady Gaga eventually.
Ya know, the farts I see squealing to see Sarah Palin are usually old folks, so you're in no position to judge.
Quote from: Faeelin on May 19, 2011, 07:57:17 AM
Ya know, the farts I see squealing to see Sarah Palin are usually old folks, so you're in no position to judge.
There's no denying that some regular and old people can be stupid, but with a few exceptions, they aren't physiologically impaired from being smart the way teenagers are.
Socialists love this sort of bullshit, as teenagers are even more dependent on someone to take care of them than poor people or ethnic minorities.
Gotta upset the tendancies of old people to vote conservative somehow.
The vote should be restricted to landowners or people making 50K+ a year.
Good.
16 year olds are treat like adults in most other ways so why shouldn't they have the vote?
Its not like most of them will use it and those who will are usually better informed than a lot of people over 18.
If we allow delusional and mentally ill (i.e. religious) people to vote, I see no reason why people below 18 shouldn't be allowed.
Personally, I think only people who pass certain exams should get a right to vote, but if we can't have it, then it doesn't make sense to treat a 17 y.o. genius worse than a 30 y.o. druggie.
Quote from: Martinus on May 19, 2011, 08:47:54 AM
Personally, I think only people who pass certain exams should get a right to vote, but if we can't have it
:rolleyes:
Quote from: Martinus on May 19, 2011, 08:47:54 AM
Personally, I think only people who pass certain exams should get a right to vote, but if we can't have it, then it doesn't make sense to treat a 17 y.o. genius worse than a 30 y.o. druggie.
It makes perfect sense. One is legally an adult the other isn't. There are some brilliant five year olds as well but surely you are not suggesting that there should be no difference in society between children and adults?
If Germany has decided 16 year olds are adults no big deal. Where exactly the cut off is is a tad arbitrary and it is not like 90% of 16 year olds are going to give a shit enough to vote just like most 18 year olds. Teens are rather self selective, the immature ones conveniently stay away.
Besides this is Germany so 80% of the population is over 50 anyway.
Quote from: Martinus on May 19, 2011, 08:47:54 AM
Personally, I think only people who pass certain exams should get a right to vote,
You would be right at home among the Social-Liberal backbenchers here in Denmark... <_<
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 19, 2011, 08:31:12 AM
The vote should be restricted to landowners or people making 50K+ a year.
:cool:
Quote from: Caliga on May 19, 2011, 09:35:02 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 19, 2011, 08:31:12 AM
The vote should be restricted to landowners or people making 50K+ a year.
:cool:
The plebs must be kept down.
That's how it was originally supposed to be in America. :(
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 19, 2011, 09:43:15 AM
The plebs must be kept down.
Or rile them up and use them for our own ends, then dump them as if we owed nothing to them, and bring in the sabers when they start getting silly ideas of their own self-importance.
Somebody is horning in on my sthick. <_<
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 08:56:57 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 19, 2011, 08:47:54 AM
Personally, I think only people who pass certain exams should get a right to vote, but if we can't have it
:rolleyes:
Don't worry about Marty he will be grandfathered in.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 19, 2011, 09:47:10 AM
Somebody is horning in on my sthick. <_<
I still think you are worse than Hitler Ed :console:
Quote from: Valmy on May 19, 2011, 09:54:17 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 19, 2011, 09:47:10 AM
Somebody is horning in on my sthick. <_<
I still think you are worse than Hitler Ed :console:
:)
Dirlewanger.
Mew.
Jesus Christ. Do we have enough smoke-filled rooms left to let us do the real business?
Business, eh? :hmm: Nyuk nyuk nuyk.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 19, 2011, 09:43:15 AM
Quote from: Caliga on May 19, 2011, 09:35:02 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 19, 2011, 08:31:12 AM
The vote should be restricted to landowners or people making 50K+ a year.
:cool:
The plebs must be kept down.
If you're making 51k you're still a pleb. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Fate on May 19, 2011, 11:15:26 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 19, 2011, 09:43:15 AM
Quote from: Caliga on May 19, 2011, 09:35:02 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 19, 2011, 08:31:12 AM
The vote should be restricted to landowners or people making 50K+ a year.
:cool:
The plebs must be kept down.
If you're making 51k you're still a pleb. :rolleyes:
But a productive one, with something to lose.
Quote from: Caliga on May 19, 2011, 07:56:30 AM
If anything it should be raised. :rolleyes:
If we start that shit here we'll end up with President Lady Gaga eventually.
This is true, the last time the US lowered it some actor got elected President.
In municipal elections in (most/all?) states in Germany, the voting age has been decreased to 16 for the last 10-15 years. The result so far is that teens don't vote much, very low turnout in that age group. We also allow (foreign/EU?) nationals that have lived here for some time to vote in municipal elections.
I am pretty neutral regarding lowering the voting age. I see no big benefit, but I don't really see a downside either.
So it's OK because they don't use their right? That's not a great argument.
No, it's okay, because voting age is arbitrary anyway so there is really no argument why it should be 18 and not say 21 or 16 or 35.
Quote from: Zanza2 on May 19, 2011, 11:37:18 AM
No, it's okay, because voting age is arbitrary anyway so there is really no argument why it should be 18 and not say 21 or 16 or 35.
I think that Valmy covered this earlier. It's not really arbitrary at all, at least not in well-organized societies.
Still, Germany is sort of floundering around in enormous luxury without a purpose right now, so I suppose these sorts of things are to be expected. It's like the whole nation naming a horse as a senator.
I hate young people. But I believe they should still have a chance to both be heard and influence the decisions that affect them. Whether voting is a better option than having more representative bodies in schools or advisory committees, I have no idea.
Nothing breeds contempt for and frustration at The System more than being excluded from the decision-making process. Now while I am certain representative democracy can still exist even with voter turnouts in the 20 % brackets, it's hardly ideal, and there's little doubt that there needs to be a way out of the apathy if democracy's to be invigorated and some sense of civic pride be restored. Whether kids getting the vote is the way to go, I'm not sure of, but why not try. If it fails, we can always blame them for something and ship them* off to labour camps.
* everyone under 35 years of age.
Voter apathy is a natural result of living in a society where the big questions have been settled for years. It can't be fought, and generally speaking the politicians who are looking to fight it are the sorts of people who really shouldn't be allowed to hold power anyways.
Only service should grant citizenship IMHO.
About time.
Quote from: Josephus on May 19, 2011, 12:05:46 PM
About time.
See, and this is what I was talking about.
Quote from: Zanza2 on May 19, 2011, 11:37:18 AM
No, it's okay, because voting age is arbitrary anyway so there is really no argument why it should be 18 and not say 21 or 16 or 35.
Only to the point that it coincides with when society considers you an adult.
IMO.
I think there are pretty good arguements why 4 year olds shouldn't vote.
Quote from: Neil on May 19, 2011, 11:45:36 AM
Voter apathy is a natural result of living in a society where the big questions have been settled for years. It can't be fought, and generally speaking the politicians who are looking to fight it are the sorts of people who really shouldn't be allowed to hold power anyways.
I agree more with you than I really like to admit, but since I desperately try to hold on to some degree of idealism, please forgive this outburst:
OMG FACSISSM!!!!111
Quote from: Valmy on May 19, 2011, 12:14:45 PM
Quote from: Zanza2 on May 19, 2011, 11:37:18 AM
No, it's okay, because voting age is arbitrary anyway so there is really no argument why it should be 18 and not say 21 or 16 or 35.
Only to the point that it coincides with when society considers you an adult.
IMO.
I think there are pretty good arguements why 4 year olds shouldn't vote.
Sure, but while 18 is "the" age when one becomes an adult, there are various other age limits in Germany. E.g. you can still be considered a youth in criminal law at age 21, but you can also have full conctractual capabilities in some legal aspects at age 16 (such as agreeing to organ donation, signing a work contract, writing a last will), limited in some other aspects. You can conduct your own business in many administrative matters of public law at age 16. You are allowed to drink some alcoholic drinks at age 16 and are allowed to drive a car at age 17 if an adult accompanies you. The state of Hesse only gives you the right to be elected at age 21, all other states give it at 18. You may marry under certain circumstances at age 16, you aren't considered a minor at age 16 for certain sexual crimes anymore. You may only adopt a child at age 21, get certain driving licenses at age 21, go to a casino in some states at age 21. Etc.
Quote from: Norgy on May 19, 2011, 12:27:24 PM
Quote from: Neil on May 19, 2011, 11:45:36 AM
Voter apathy is a natural result of living in a society where the big questions have been settled for years. It can't be fought, and generally speaking the politicians who are looking to fight it are the sorts of people who really shouldn't be allowed to hold power anyways.
I agree more with you than I really like to admit, but since I desperately try to hold on to some degree of idealism, please forgive this outburst:
OMG FACSISSM!!!!111
It's scary when Neil is sensible.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 19, 2011, 11:26:29 AM
This is true, the last time the US lowered it some actor got elected President.
If you want to troll more effectively you ought to keep a spreadsheet of who likes what on Languish.
You can start by putting an 'N' into the 'Reaganite?' column for 'Caliga'. :)
Quote from: Caliga on May 19, 2011, 01:07:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 19, 2011, 11:26:29 AM
This is true, the last time the US lowered it some actor got elected President.
If you want to troll more effectively you ought to keep a spreadsheet of who likes what on Languish.
You can start by putting an 'N' into the 'Reaganite?' column for 'Caliga'. :)
Put me down as a Y-- and bold it :contract:
Quote from: derspiess on May 19, 2011, 04:52:56 PM
Quote from: Caliga on May 19, 2011, 01:07:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 19, 2011, 11:26:29 AM
This is true, the last time the US lowered it some actor got elected President.
If you want to troll more effectively you ought to keep a spreadsheet of who likes what on Languish.
You can start by putting an 'N' into the 'Reaganite?' column for 'Caliga'. :)
Put me down as a Y-- and bold it :contract:
But of course. :wub:
Quote from: Razgovory on May 19, 2011, 11:26:29 AM
Quote from: Caliga on May 19, 2011, 07:56:30 AM
If anything it should be raised. :rolleyes:
If we start that shit here we'll end up with President Lady Gaga eventually.
This is true, the last time the US lowered it some actor got elected President.
I wasn't aware that Richard Nixon had had an acting career.
Anyway, my take is that you should be considered an adult pretty much for all purposes at the same age, and my earlier comment about raising the age back to 21 was basically a jab against laws that make people wait till age 21 to buy a beer.
Interestingly, a lot of U.S. states allow 17 year olds to vote in primary elections if they'll be 18 by the time of the general election. I bet very few people even realize that, and I doubt that many 17 year olds take advantage of it.
Quote from: dps on May 19, 2011, 06:11:38 PMI wasn't aware that Richard Nixon had had an acting career.
I adored his work on Futurama.
Quote from: dps on May 19, 2011, 06:11:38 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 19, 2011, 11:26:29 AM
Quote from: Caliga on May 19, 2011, 07:56:30 AM
If anything it should be raised. :rolleyes:
If we start that shit here we'll end up with President Lady Gaga eventually.
This is true, the last time the US lowered it some actor got elected President.
I wasn't aware that Richard Nixon had had an acting career.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFEhmF-cSi8 It was pretty short.