State in Germany Lowers Voting Age to Sixteen

[Zanza2]

No, it's okay, because voting age is arbitrary anyway so there is really no argument why it should be 18 and not say 21 or 16 or 35.

[Neil]

No, it's okay, because voting age is arbitrary anyway so there is really no argument why it should be 18 and not say 21 or 16 or 35.

I think that Valmy covered this earlier.  It's not really arbitrary at all, at least not in well-organized societies.

Still, Germany is sort of floundering around in enormous luxury without a purpose right now, so I suppose these sorts of things are to be expected.  It's like the whole nation naming a horse as a senator.

[Norgy]

I hate young people. But I believe they should still have a chance to both be heard and influence the decisions that affect them. Whether voting is a better option than having more representative bodies in schools or advisory committees, I have no idea.

Nothing breeds contempt for and frustration at The System more than being excluded from the decision-making process. Now while I am certain representative democracy can still exist even with voter turnouts in the 20 % brackets, it's hardly ideal, and  there's little doubt that there needs to be a way out of the apathy if democracy's to be invigorated and some sense of civic pride be restored. Whether kids getting the vote is the way to go, I'm not sure of, but why not try. If it fails, we can always blame them for something and ship them* off to labour camps.


* everyone under 35 years of age.

[Neil]

Voter apathy is a natural result of living in a society where the big questions have been settled for years.  It can't be fought, and generally speaking the politicians who are looking to fight it are the sorts of people who really shouldn't be allowed to hold power anyways.

[The Brain]

Only service should grant citizenship IMHO.

[Josephus]

About time.

[Neil]

About time.

See, and this is what I was talking about.

[Valmy]

No, it's okay, because voting age is arbitrary anyway so there is really no argument why it should be 18 and not say 21 or 16 or 35.

Only to the point that it coincides with when society considers you an adult.

IMO.

I think there are pretty good arguements why 4 year olds shouldn't vote.

[Norgy]

Voter apathy is a natural result of living in a society where the big questions have been settled for years.  It can't be fought, and generally speaking the politicians who are looking to fight it are the sorts of people who really shouldn't be allowed to hold power anyways.

I agree more with you than I really like to admit, but since I desperately try to hold on to some degree of idealism, please forgive this outburst:

OMG FACSISSM!!!!111

[Zanza2]

No, it's okay, because voting age is arbitrary anyway so there is really no argument why it should be 18 and not say 21 or 16 or 35.

Only to the point that it coincides with when society considers you an adult.

IMO.

I think there are pretty good arguements why 4 year olds shouldn't vote.

Sure, but while 18 is "the" age when one becomes an adult, there are various other age limits in Germany. E.g. you can still be considered a youth in criminal law at age 21, but you can also have full conctractual capabilities in some legal aspects at age 16 (such as agreeing to organ donation, signing a work contract, writing a last will), limited in some other aspects. You can conduct your own business in many administrative matters of public law at age 16. You are allowed to drink some alcoholic drinks at age 16 and are allowed to drive a car at age 17 if an adult accompanies you. The state of Hesse only gives you the right to be elected at age 21, all other states give it at 18. You may marry under certain circumstances at age 16, you aren't considered a minor at age 16 for certain sexual crimes anymore. You may only adopt a child at age 21, get certain driving licenses at age 21, go to a casino in some states at age 21. Etc.

[Razgovory]

Voter apathy is a natural result of living in a society where the big questions have been settled for years.  It can't be fought, and generally speaking the politicians who are looking to fight it are the sorts of people who really shouldn't be allowed to hold power anyways.

I agree more with you than I really like to admit, but since I desperately try to hold on to some degree of idealism, please forgive this outburst:

OMG FACSISSM!!!!111

It's scary when Neil is sensible.

[Caliga]

This is true, the last time the US lowered it some actor got elected President.

If you want to troll more effectively you ought to keep a spreadsheet of who likes what on Languish.

You can start by putting an 'N' into the 'Reaganite?' column for 'Caliga'.

[derspiess]

This is true, the last time the US lowered it some actor got elected President.

If you want to troll more effectively you ought to keep a spreadsheet of who likes what on Languish.

You can start by putting an 'N' into the 'Reaganite?' column for 'Caliga'.

Put me down as a Y-- and bold it

[garbon]

This is true, the last time the US lowered it some actor got elected President.

If you want to troll more effectively you ought to keep a spreadsheet of who likes what on Languish.

You can start by putting an 'N' into the 'Reaganite?' column for 'Caliga'.

Put me down as a Y-- and bold it

But of course.

[dps]

If anything it should be raised.

If we start that shit here we'll end up with President Lady Gaga eventually.

This is true, the last time the US lowered it some actor got elected President.

I wasn't aware that Richard Nixon had had an acting career.

Anyway, my take is that you should be considered an adult pretty much for all purposes at the same age, and my earlier comment about raising the age back to 21 was basically a jab against laws that make people wait till age 21 to buy a beer. 

Interestingly, a lot of U.S. states allow 17 year olds to vote in primary elections if they'll be 18 by the time of the general election.  I bet very few people even realize that, and I doubt that many 17 year olds take advantage of it.