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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: viper37 on April 18, 2011, 09:25:26 PM

Title: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: viper37 on April 18, 2011, 09:25:26 PM
Should I get it?  The 4 books (is that all there is?) are on sale for a little over 30$ at Amazon.  Is it worth reading?
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Lettow77 on April 18, 2011, 09:28:15 PM
 Yes. By the time you are done, the new one should allegedly be out.

It is quite excellent.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 18, 2011, 09:39:47 PM
That doesn't seem like such a great bulk deal, you could probably find them separately for about the same. But yeah, good series, shame it's not going to be finished.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Razgovory on April 18, 2011, 09:46:20 PM
I say no.  They'll never be finished.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Lettow77 on April 18, 2011, 09:53:00 PM
 I would dissent and say they will indeed be finished, but that's just me. He should have them done in eighteen years or so at the latest, and he'll probably live and be capable of writing that long.

Perhaps his draft for the final one will be a legacy work, but that's fine too.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Valmy on April 18, 2011, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 18, 2011, 09:39:47 PM
That doesn't seem like such a great bulk deal, you could probably find them separately for about the same. But yeah, good series, shame it's not going to be finished.

Heh you have no idea whether or not he is going to finish.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Razgovory on April 18, 2011, 10:11:49 PM
Lettow probably still in his crib when the first book was released, fuck I was in the 8th grade or so.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 18, 2011, 10:13:28 PM
Personally, I'm going to take a break from O'Connor, Steinbeck and various nonfictions to start the WH40K "Horus Heresy" series and melt my brain.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Razgovory on April 18, 2011, 10:17:30 PM
Nothing wrong with that, you can't be weighty all the time.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 18, 2011, 10:46:10 PM
Sure, it's good, though dark. If you can handle lots of death and misery then go for it.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Habbaku on April 18, 2011, 10:48:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 18, 2011, 10:11:49 PM
Lettow probably still in his crib when the first book was released, fuck I was in the 8th grade or so.

What is your obsession with posters' ages?  I didn't realize you had suddenly joined the gays.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Razgovory on April 18, 2011, 11:13:46 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on April 18, 2011, 10:48:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 18, 2011, 10:11:49 PM
Lettow probably still in his crib when the first book was released, fuck I was in the 8th grade or so.

What is your obsession with posters' ages?  I didn't realize you had suddenly joined the gays.

I remember things.  I don't know why it's so weird, but everyone is weirded out though when I remember that Dguller is losing his hair, or that Tim is posting an article that Ank posted half a decade ago or that I remember that Lettow under 21.

Also I don't trust people who are younger then me, like you.  Or people who are older then me, like Berkut.  Or people about the same age like Tim.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Lettow77 on April 18, 2011, 11:19:02 PM
 Lettow is not either under 21. Not since several months ago, anyhow.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Razgovory on April 18, 2011, 11:20:09 PM
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 18, 2011, 11:19:02 PM
Lettow is not either under 21. Not since several months ago, anyhow.

Ah, okay.  I was off.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Slargos on April 18, 2011, 11:46:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 18, 2011, 11:13:46 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on April 18, 2011, 10:48:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 18, 2011, 10:11:49 PM
Lettow probably still in his crib when the first book was released, fuck I was in the 8th grade or so.

What is your obsession with posters' ages?  I didn't realize you had suddenly joined the gays.

I remember things.  I don't know why it's so weird, but everyone is weirded out though when I remember that Dguller is losing his hair, or that Tim is posting an article that Ank posted half a decade ago or that I remember that Lettow under 21.

Also I don't trust people who are younger then me, like you.  Or people who are older then me, like Berkut.  Or people about the same age like Tim.

People with memory sponges are frightening because we suspect they might also recall all the times we made fools of ourselves. The blessing of a poor memory is that you can put things like that behind you.  :P

You, however, are a constant reminder. :console:

Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 18, 2011, 11:52:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 18, 2011, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 18, 2011, 09:39:47 PM
That doesn't seem like such a great bulk deal, you could probably find them separately for about the same. But yeah, good series, shame it's not going to be finished.

Heh you have no idea whether or not he is going to finish.

You're really a glass half full kind of guy, aren't you.  <_<
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Syt on April 19, 2011, 12:20:59 AM
The story was ok, but halfway through book three I had to stop because I don't like his writing (it took me three attempts to go through book 1).
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on April 19, 2011, 02:57:18 AM
After all the recent chat on Languish I'm going to get the first book and give it a go. I had assumed that it was standard fantasy pap, but too many Languishites take it seriously for that to be likely; I like a good fantasy novel..........it's just that most of the genre is dreadful drivel  :(
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: The Larch on April 19, 2011, 02:58:46 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on April 19, 2011, 02:57:18 AM
After all the recent chat on Languish I'm going to get the first book and give it a go. I had assumed that it was standard fantasy pap, but too many Languishites take it seriously for that to be likely; I like a good fantasy novel..........it's just that most of the genre is dreadful drivel  :(

Which are your likes and dislikes of the fantasy genre? This series is much heavier on the political machinations side than in the magicians shooting fireballs side, so to speak.  :P
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on April 19, 2011, 03:06:14 AM
The thing I like most is when a world has been lovingly created and realised. There should be complexity. Too many fantasy worlds seem to have been jotted down on the back of a napkin in 5 minutes after a particularly boozy meal  :mad:
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Slargos on April 19, 2011, 03:30:05 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on April 19, 2011, 03:06:14 AM
The thing I like most is when a world has been lovingly created and realised. There should be complexity. Too many fantasy worlds seem to have been jotted down on the back of a napkin in 5 minutes after a particularly boozy meal  :mad:

Well then Steven Erikson is your uncle.  :hmm:

Don't listen to all the haters.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Falmostdumb.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F02%2Fhaters-gonna-hate.jpg&hash=16953df461ec34534dd810f77859c4084260fbd4)
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: The Larch on April 19, 2011, 03:33:21 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on April 19, 2011, 03:06:14 AM
The thing I like most is when a world has been lovingly created and realised. There should be complexity. Too many fantasy worlds seem to have been jotted down on the back of a napkin in 5 minutes after a particularly boozy meal  :mad:

Then I think you'll greatly enjoy ASOIAF, the universe where it takes place is really detailed and well crafted. It can get a bit overwhelming too, as there are characters by the bucketload, but fortunately the books come with handy genealogies and character lists.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Gups on April 19, 2011, 03:52:02 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on April 19, 2011, 02:57:18 AM
After all the recent chat on Languish I'm going to get the first book and give it a go. I had assumed that it was standard fantasy pap, but too many Languishites take it seriously for that to be likely; I like a good fantasy novel..........it's just that most of the genre is dreadful drivel  :(

Might be worth waiting to see what reviews the latest one gets. The first three were excellent - the writing is poor by literary standards but excellent for the genre, but the plot is superbly complex. Unfortunately the fourth novel, although it had its good points generally went nowhere and saw a serious deterioration in prose quality. If Martin returns to form with the fifth, I'd say go for it. 
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Brazen on April 19, 2011, 03:54:58 AM
I must have read the first 50 pages of the first book three times. I gave it a chance because of the Languish love (and Marti made me) but I really didn't get on with it.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: The Larch on April 19, 2011, 03:57:39 AM
The first third of the first book is extremely heavy on exposition and character introduction, so I can get how it can be too tough to follow at first. Once it picks up pace it's a juggernaut, though.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on April 19, 2011, 04:47:57 AM
I like Victorian novels, so verbosity holds no terrors for me  :lol:

I'll report back once I've read (or failed to read) it.

Incidentally, this thread accidentally led to me buying a kindle. I went to Amazon to oder the Martin book and then went on to order Trollope's Palliser novels............but suddenly noticed that a kindle edition of most of his work was available for some paltry fee  :w00t:

Quick research revealed that this was standard for loads of 19th century stuff  :cool: It's going to save me a fortune and any amount of shelfspace.

So, when the kindle arrives I'll download the first Martin book onto it and make a start.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Gups on April 19, 2011, 04:58:33 AM
I've never read any Trollope but keep meaning to. Any recommendations as to where to start?
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on April 19, 2011, 05:43:04 AM
That's a tricky question  :hmm:

I'm no great expert having only read 2 Palliser novels, the Barchester novels and The way we live now. I started with The Warden, but it is an early novel and that shows......also I'm told that a lot of people find the  mid-19th century ecclesiastical doings a bit of a turn-off (they were a big plus for me, a strange little world of which I had known nothing).

The way we live now is a more serious and weighty tome in all respects and has become curiously relevant since the banking fiascos of a couple of years back. Yes, I think I'd recommend reading both; if you like neither then you won't like Trollope  :D
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Josquius on April 19, 2011, 05:53:28 AM
Quote from: Brazen on April 19, 2011, 03:54:58 AM
I must have read the first 50 pages of the first book three times. I gave it a chance because of the Languish love (and Marti made me) but I really didn't get on with it.
It took me a while to get into it,  for the first few chapters I really wasn't there. It picks up though.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Grey Fox on April 19, 2011, 06:23:59 AM
As I said in the TV thread. I aint reading those books before RR dies.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: grumbler on April 19, 2011, 06:46:49 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 19, 2011, 06:23:59 AM
As I said in the TV thread. I aint reading those books before RR dies.
Any particular reason, or do you just like to establish arbitrary standards for yourself?
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: grumbler on April 19, 2011, 06:49:32 AM
Quote from: Gups on April 19, 2011, 03:52:02 AM
Might be worth waiting to see what reviews the latest one gets. The first three were excellent - the writing is poor by literary standards but excellent for the genre, but the plot is superbly complex. Unfortunately the fourth novel, although it had its good points generally went nowhere and saw a serious deterioration in prose quality. If Martin returns to form with the fifth, I'd say go for it. 
This is pretty much how i see it, except that I would argue that the first three books are worth reading for the imagery even if the fourth turns out to be the new standard for the series.

I could easily see reading the first three books, and then reading the wikipedia summary of what happens in the books that follow them, and being satisfied.  By the middle of the fourth book it is increasingly hard to care anymore.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Grey Fox on April 19, 2011, 06:51:10 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 19, 2011, 06:46:49 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 19, 2011, 06:23:59 AM
As I said in the TV thread. I aint reading those books before RR dies.
Any particular reason, or do you just like to establish arbitrary standards for yourself?

Because when he dies the series ends. Sure there could be a legacy book or two but my compulsary to read them will be greatly reduce.

It's about what I've seen from you guys that read the books. Most seem angry at RR for taking so long to write the sequels. I prefer to avoid that feeling.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Josquius on April 19, 2011, 06:51:21 AM
I wasn't big on the fourth one either. But then the fourth one was split into the fourth and fifth with most of the boring POVs going to 4 and the interesting ones kept for 5. I'm hopeful for 5.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: grumbler on April 19, 2011, 06:56:51 AM
Quote from: Tyr on April 19, 2011, 06:51:21 AM
I wasn't big on the fourth one either. But then the fourth one was split into the fourth and fifth with most of the boring POVs going to 4 and the interesting ones kept for 5. I'm hopeful for 5.
It's not just the boring POVs, it is also the lack of interesting developments or places.  The Unsullied were boring and unbelievable, and the cities Daenerys was attacking were very ordinary.  There was no "magic" to the events of book 4.  The Appendices to TLotR were written in a snappier style.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Berkut on April 19, 2011, 07:27:37 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 19, 2011, 06:23:59 AM
As I said in the TV thread. I aint reading those books before RR dies.

I used to stress out about this, but then I realized something...

If Martin drops dead tomorrow, and I never read another word of A Song of Ice and Fire it will still be the best fantasy I've ever read or am likely to ever read. And it isn't even really close.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: KRonn on April 19, 2011, 07:39:42 AM
Quote from: viper37 on April 18, 2011, 09:25:26 PM
Should I get it?  The 4 books (is that all there is?) are on sale for a little over 30$ at Amazon.  Is it worth reading?
I'd say read the books, for sure. The series was one of my favorites, even if (as Berkut says) another book is never written. Though I think the next one is due out sometime this year?
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: The Larch on April 19, 2011, 07:43:40 AM
Quote from: KRonn on April 19, 2011, 07:39:42 AM
Quote from: viper37 on April 18, 2011, 09:25:26 PM
Should I get it?  The 4 books (is that all there is?) are on sale for a little over 30$ at Amazon.  Is it worth reading?
I'd say read the books, for sure. The series was one of my favorites, even if (as Berkut says) another book is never written. Though I think the next one is due out sometime this year?

It has been officially announced for this summer.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: KRonn on April 19, 2011, 07:44:37 AM
Quote from: The Larch on April 19, 2011, 07:43:40 AM
Quote from: KRonn on April 19, 2011, 07:39:42 AM
Quote from: viper37 on April 18, 2011, 09:25:26 PM
Should I get it?  The 4 books (is that all there is?) are on sale for a little over 30$ at Amazon.  Is it worth reading?
I'd say read the books, for sure. The series was one of my favorites, even if (as Berkut says) another book is never written. Though I think the next one is due out sometime this year?

It has been officially announced for this summer.
Cool. I thought it had been, but it seems delayed all the time.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: The Larch on April 19, 2011, 07:51:27 AM
Quote from: KRonn on April 19, 2011, 07:44:37 AM
Quote from: The Larch on April 19, 2011, 07:43:40 AM
Quote from: KRonn on April 19, 2011, 07:39:42 AM
Quote from: viper37 on April 18, 2011, 09:25:26 PM
Should I get it?  The 4 books (is that all there is?) are on sale for a little over 30$ at Amazon.  Is it worth reading?
I'd say read the books, for sure. The series was one of my favorites, even if (as Berkut says) another book is never written. Though I think the next one is due out sometime this year?

It has been officially announced for this summer.
Cool. I thought it had been, but it seems delayed all the time.

Well, I kinda hope that the TV series will serve as the spark that Martin needed to work his ass off and finish the books he had pending. AFAIK he said that, if the TV series seasons correspond roughly with the books (he mentioned that two seasons would be needed for Book 3 and three seasons for books 4 and 5), the sixth book would be finished on time for it to fit on the recording schedule. That'd mean that the sixth book should be finished before...2017.  :lol:
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: KRonn on April 19, 2011, 08:03:10 AM
Hehe... yeah, good point about the tv series motivating Martin to finish the books. He has such a great story in these, and so many fans who want to see it all come to fruition, to find out how the characters end up! Of course we expect lots more twists and turns, as is normal with this story.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: The Larch on April 19, 2011, 08:09:14 AM
Quote from: KRonn on April 19, 2011, 08:03:10 AM
Hehe... yeah, good point about the tv series motivating Martin to finish the books. He has such a great story in these, and so many fans who want to see it all come to fruition, to find out how the characters end up! Of course we expect lots more twists and turns, as is normal with this story.

Well, it's too much of a coincidence. "Oh, btw, now that the extremely hyped TV series based on my saga is going to hit the screens I've casually finished writing the much expected following book. Oh, yes, it's all a coincidence that I make the announcement when the hype is reaching boiling point. Did I mention that it's going to get published just when the season will finish?"
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: grumbler on April 19, 2011, 08:11:54 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 19, 2011, 07:27:37 AM
If Martin drops dead tomorrow, and I never read another word of A Song of Ice and Fire it will still be the best fantasy I've ever read or am likely to ever read. And it isn't even really close.
Wow.  :( My condolences.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Valmy on April 19, 2011, 08:18:00 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 18, 2011, 11:52:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 18, 2011, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 18, 2011, 09:39:47 PM
That doesn't seem like such a great bulk deal, you could probably find them separately for about the same. But yeah, good series, shame it's not going to be finished.

Heh you have no idea whether or not he is going to finish.

You're really a glass half full kind of guy, aren't you.  <_<

I wouldn't be terribly surprised either way.  Even at his current glacial pace he would still finish in 12 or 13 years.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Valmy on April 19, 2011, 08:21:23 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 19, 2011, 06:56:51 AM
It's not just the boring POVs, it is also the lack of interesting developments or places.  The Unsullied were boring and unbelievable, and the cities Daenerys was attacking were very ordinary.  There was no "magic" to the events of book 4.  The Appendices to TLotR were written in a snappier style.

All that stuff was in book three.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Valmy on April 19, 2011, 08:23:48 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 19, 2011, 07:27:37 AM
I used to stress out about this, but then I realized something...

If Martin drops dead tomorrow, and I never read another word of A Song of Ice and Fire it will still be the best fantasy I've ever read or am likely to ever read. And it isn't even really close.

Hey Berk I want to thank you for encouraging me to read it anyway despite all the snobbery shown towards the series on this board back in the day.  Loving it.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: KRonn on April 19, 2011, 08:35:04 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 19, 2011, 08:23:48 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 19, 2011, 07:27:37 AM
I used to stress out about this, but then I realized something...

If Martin drops dead tomorrow, and I never read another word of A Song of Ice and Fire it will still be the best fantasy I've ever read or am likely to ever read. And it isn't even really close.

Hey Berk I want to thank you for encouraging me to read it anyway despite all the snobbery shown towards the series on this board back in the day.  Loving it.
I also learned of this book series from the forum, probably Berkut's mention, but also others who gave it very positive reviews.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: grumbler on April 19, 2011, 08:35:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 19, 2011, 08:21:23 AM
All that stuff was in book three.
Hmm.  You are correct.  Book 4 is even less memorable than I had thought.  In any case, not a compliment.  However, the early stuff is worth reading, as I noted, even if one just reads a summary of the plot's ending.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Valmy on April 19, 2011, 08:38:28 AM
Quote from: KRonn on April 19, 2011, 08:35:04 AM
I also learned of this book series from the forum, probably Berkut's mention, but also others who gave it very positive reviews.

That was probably too strongly said.  There was a thread going back and forth on them and I wasn't sure if it was worth picking up and Berkut told me something like 'just read it.  People are going to hate anything that becoming popular.'  Now that is not entirely fair as certainly grumbles and others certainly have legitimate reasons not to like it but it was what I needed to hear.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: grumbler on April 19, 2011, 08:38:56 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 19, 2011, 08:23:48 AM
Hey Berk I want to thank you for encouraging me to read it anyway despite all the snobbery shown towards the series on this board back in the day.  Loving it.
I think that the fanboi-ism shouldn't dissuade prospective readers.  It isn't great literature, but it is an excellent fantasy read, for the first few thousand pages, anyway.  The non-fanboi may see a falloff in quality in the later stuff, but that doesn't make the earlier stuff not worth reading.  The Silmariliian isn't as well-written as TLotR, but that doesn't make TLotR not worth reading.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Valmy on April 19, 2011, 08:40:22 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 19, 2011, 08:35:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 19, 2011, 08:21:23 AM
All that stuff was in book three.
Hmm.  You are correct.  Book 4 is even less memorable than I had thought.  In any case, not a compliment.  However, the early stuff is worth reading, as I noted, even if one just reads a summary of the plot's ending.

One thing I will definitely agree with is that the pacing of the plot in Book 1 is faster than later books.  Which is rather odd considering all the exposition which has to take place, being the first in a series.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: grumbler on April 19, 2011, 08:44:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 19, 2011, 08:40:22 AM
One thing I will definitely agree with is that the pacing of the plot in Book 1 is faster than later books.  Which is rather odd considering all the exposition which has to take place, being the first in a series.
I think what you see is a breakdown in his story-telling discipline, as he adds more and more characters and plots that aren't really part of the main story; if he thinks of them, into the pot they go.  I think he'd have been far better-off leaving those for the comics and the short stories.

David Webber did the same thing with his Honor Harrington books and those have now pretty much stalled as Webber's attention is drawn towards easier-to-tell stories.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Berkut on April 19, 2011, 08:45:30 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 19, 2011, 08:23:48 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 19, 2011, 07:27:37 AM
I used to stress out about this, but then I realized something...

If Martin drops dead tomorrow, and I never read another word of A Song of Ice and Fire it will still be the best fantasy I've ever read or am likely to ever read. And it isn't even really close.

Hey Berk I want to thank you for encouraging me to read it anyway despite all the snobbery shown towards the series on this board back in the day.  Loving it.

Glad you like it, and I am an unapologetic evangelist for the series.

None of grumblers complaints are invalid though - the pacing does slow down, the author does seem to get lost later on, etc., etc., etc. But IMO that means that the books go from outstanding to just damn good. Book 4 certainly suffers compared to 1-3, but it is still a hell of a lot better than 98% of the other fantasy that is out there. And I still read the entire book 3 times. And listened to it on audio once.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: The Larch on April 19, 2011, 08:46:18 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 19, 2011, 08:35:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 19, 2011, 08:21:23 AM
All that stuff was in book three.
Hmm.  You are correct.  Book 4 is even less memorable than I had thought.  In any case, not a compliment.  However, the early stuff is worth reading, as I noted, even if one just reads a summary of the plot's ending.

Book 4 has:

- The Greyjoy succession crisis.
- Cersei spiralling out of control as sole ruler of King's Landing.
- Jaime developing a new personality.
- Brienne's quest.
- Sam leaving the Wall for Oldtown in order to become a maester.
- Arya becoming a ninja assassin.
- Sansa being taken by Littlefinger to the Eyrie.
- The introduction of the Martells of Dorne to the Game of Thrones.

Save for a couple of those plots, it is all very interesting material IMO, and sets up events to come that will be important in the future. I imagine that the book is much maligned because it's kind of a "transition" book, more or less like the second, it took ages to be finished, was a bit of a let down after the pivotal third book and it drags a bit because of the rewriting due to the scrapping of the 10 year flash forward. All in all I'd give it a B, and a B+ if you skip Brienne's part.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Berkut on April 19, 2011, 08:48:59 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 19, 2011, 08:44:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 19, 2011, 08:40:22 AM
One thing I will definitely agree with is that the pacing of the plot in Book 1 is faster than later books.  Which is rather odd considering all the exposition which has to take place, being the first in a series.
I think what you see is a breakdown in his story-telling discipline, as he adds more and more characters and plots that aren't really part of the main story; if he thinks of them, into the pot they go.  I think he'd have been far better-off leaving those for the comics and the short stories.

Yep - he seems to have lost focus almost completely. Hopefully it only seems that way, and the Author in his infinite wisdom, really does have an amazing plan that is going to make it all come back together.

But I suspect that is pretty much like hoping that BSG is somehow going to all come back together and explain everything after season 3. Not fucking likely.

My suspicion is that Martin has 2 basic problems:

1. Lack of the same passion for telling his story, hence he rambles, and
2. He has become so big (figuratively) that nobody has any power to reign him in, so no editor. He is George Lucas.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: The Larch on April 19, 2011, 08:57:32 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 19, 2011, 08:48:59 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 19, 2011, 08:44:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 19, 2011, 08:40:22 AM
One thing I will definitely agree with is that the pacing of the plot in Book 1 is faster than later books.  Which is rather odd considering all the exposition which has to take place, being the first in a series.
I think what you see is a breakdown in his story-telling discipline, as he adds more and more characters and plots that aren't really part of the main story; if he thinks of them, into the pot they go.  I think he'd have been far better-off leaving those for the comics and the short stories.

Yep - he seems to have lost focus almost completely. Hopefully it only seems that way, and the Author in his infinite wisdom, really does have an amazing plan that is going to make it all come back together.

But I suspect that is pretty much like hoping that BSG is somehow going to all come back together and explain everything after season 3. Not fucking likely.

My suspicion is that Martin has 2 basic problems:

1. Lack of the same passion for telling his story, hence he rambles, and
2. He has become so big (figuratively) that nobody has any power to reign him in, so no editor. He is George Lucas.

IMO the biggest factor afecting the stumping of the narrative in the fourth book is the scrapping of the 10 year flash forward, which was Martin's original plan. He had to rework everything at that point and move away from his original vision, and it can be seen. I hope that for the fifth he'll already have things figured out.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Valmy on April 19, 2011, 09:04:04 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 19, 2011, 08:48:59 AM
Yep - he seems to have lost focus almost completely. Hopefully it only seems that way, and the Author in his infinite wisdom, really does have an amazing plan that is going to make it all come back together.

We will see.  It seems like the story is starting to come into focus for the final showdown but obviously what is in Book 5 will either show that or not.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Gups on April 19, 2011, 09:51:29 AM
Quote from: The Larch on April 19, 2011, 08:46:18 AM
Book 4 has:

- The Greyjoy succession crisis.
- Cersei spiralling out of control as sole ruler of King's Landing.
- Jaime developing a new personality.
- Brienne's quest.
- Sam leaving the Wall for Oldtown in order to become a maester.
- Arya becoming a ninja assassin.
- Sansa being taken by Littlefinger to the Eyrie.
- The introduction of the Martells of Dorne to the Game of Thrones.

Save for a couple of those plots, it is all very interesting material IMO, and sets up events to come that will be important in the future. I imagine that the book is much maligned because it's kind of a "transition" book, more or less like the second, it took ages to be finished, was a bit of a let down after the pivotal third book and it drags a bit because of the rewriting due to the scrapping of the 10 year flash forward. All in all I'd give it a B, and a B+ if you skip Brienne's part.

You see, I'd put it the other way round. The Cersei plot is good, Jamie turns into a much more interesting character (though you really have to suspend your disbelief). The Sansa, Arya and Sam plots are OK (Littlefinger is cool) I guess but the rest of it pretty tedious. IIRC (and I've only read the book once, when it came out) the Brienne, Iron Island and Dorne plots were the bulk of it and they were just boring. But worst of all, Martin's writing really deteriorated. Started repeating himself lots and using crap faux medievalisms a lot more.

If DofD gets good reviews I'd like to re-read the series but I may take Grumbler's advice and just read the plot summary of Feast.

Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on April 19, 2011, 10:56:45 AM
Quote from: KRonn on April 19, 2011, 08:35:04 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 19, 2011, 08:23:48 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 19, 2011, 07:27:37 AM
I used to stress out about this, but then I realized something...

If Martin drops dead tomorrow, and I never read another word of A Song of Ice and Fire it will still be the best fantasy I've ever read or am likely to ever read. And it isn't even really close.

Hey Berk I want to thank you for encouraging me to read it anyway despite all the snobbery shown towards the series on this board back in the day.  Loving it.
I also learned of this book series from the forum, probably Berkut's mention, but also others who gave it very positive reviews.

Same here.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Gups on April 19, 2011, 11:03:16 AM
I think Berkie recommended it to me too. Christ must be 10 years ago now. I feel old
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Grey Fox on April 19, 2011, 11:09:46 AM
Berkut, how does it compare to, say, Robert Jordan's Grand Saga Wheel of Time?
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Berkut on April 19, 2011, 11:19:45 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 19, 2011, 11:09:46 AM
Berkut, how does it compare to, say, Robert Jordan's Grand Saga Wheel of Time?

Vastly superior. The WoT is not as bad as I once thought it was, but it is kids fair, really. You keep reading it (if you do at all) because it is comfortable, and you know it isn't going to challenge, except maybe the challenge of staying awake. It shoots for mediocrity and hits its mark solidly.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on April 19, 2011, 11:20:49 AM
My kindle arrived so I bought the first book and started reading.........11% so far, not sure what that is in pages............anyway, this is good stuff  :) !

Yet another triumph for languish  :D
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: grumbler on April 19, 2011, 11:27:45 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 19, 2011, 11:19:45 AM
Vastly superior. The WoT is not as bad as I once thought it was, but it is kids fair, really. You keep reading it (if you do at all) because it is comfortable, and you know it isn't going to challenge, except maybe the challenge of staying awake. It shoots for mediocrity and hits its mark solidly.
I don't think martin ever hits Jordan's level of mediocrity in book four, but he makes a solid attempt.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Berkut on April 19, 2011, 11:27:46 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on April 19, 2011, 11:20:49 AM
My kindle arrived so I bought the first book and started reading.........11% so far, not sure what that is in pages............anyway, this is good stuff  :) !

Yet another triumph for languish Berkut  :D


FYP :)
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Grey Fox on April 19, 2011, 11:35:07 AM
Quote from: Berkut on April 19, 2011, 11:19:45 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 19, 2011, 11:09:46 AM
Berkut, how does it compare to, say, Robert Jordan's Grand Saga Wheel of Time?

Vastly superior. The WoT is not as bad as I once thought it was, but it is kids fair, really. You keep reading it (if you do at all) because it is comfortable, and you know it isn't going to challenge, except maybe the challenge of staying awake. It shoots for mediocrity and hits its mark solidly.

I've started the first book (actually in the French translation, it's the second book) & own the third one. I don't think I'll continue after that one.

What do you guys think of Trudi Canavan's The Black Magician trilogy ? I've read the first book & the second isn't the pile. Altho, most of my enjoyment of it comes from the perfectly executed translation, which is quite rare.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Valmy on April 19, 2011, 11:57:20 AM
Quote from: Gups on April 19, 2011, 09:51:29 AM
IIRC (and I've only read the book once, when it came out) the Brienne, Iron Island and Dorne plots were the bulk of it and they were just boring.

Wait what?  Those two plots only got a few chapters and they were pretty packed full of goings-on  Now Brienne I can understand.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Martinus on April 19, 2011, 12:27:09 PM
Speaking of which I learned of the series still while on Paradox but probably from Berkut too. So thanks. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Cecil on April 19, 2011, 01:13:45 PM
A song of long name is rated average to me.

Got some good parts but snored my way through much of the books.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: KRonn on April 19, 2011, 01:41:18 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on April 19, 2011, 11:09:46 AM
Berkut, how does it compare to, say, Robert Jordan's Grand Saga Wheel of Time?
I've been reading this one lately, off and on. I like it pretty well.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Sophie Scholl on April 19, 2011, 02:56:30 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 18, 2011, 10:13:28 PM
Personally, I'm going to take a break from O'Connor, Steinbeck and various nonfictions to start the WH40K "Horus Heresy" series and melt my brain.
:thumbsup:  I've rather enjoyed them.  They're good for some pulp level adventure sci fi.  I just nabbed the SoIaF books and have started the first one.  It's alright so far.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: crazy canuck on April 19, 2011, 03:31:07 PM
I read the series on Berk's recommendation as well.  I agree, even if the series is not finished the books are well worth the read.

The main complaint I have about book 4 is that the main story lines that had the most interest for me were dropped for what seemed a lengthy detour.

It will take some effort to get it all back on track in a way that makes book 4 look like more than an effort to lengthen the series.

Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Berkut on April 19, 2011, 03:35:51 PM
Fuck, I should be getting some kind of commission.

I had no idea this many people give a shit what I think about anything.

I wish my wife listened to me this much...
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: The Brain on April 19, 2011, 03:37:42 PM
It is not the rage they fear; it is your divine power.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Berkut on April 19, 2011, 03:43:58 PM
Quote from: The Brain on April 19, 2011, 03:37:42 PM
It is not the rage they fear; it is your divine power.

I am not vegan though.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on April 19, 2011, 03:58:18 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 19, 2011, 03:35:51 PM
Fuck, I should be getting some kind of commission.

I had no idea this many people give a shit what I think about anything.

I wish my wife listened to me this much...

Get her to register. Maybe you're more persuasive when posting than in person.  :P
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Martinus on April 19, 2011, 04:21:36 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 19, 2011, 03:35:51 PM
I had no idea this many people give a shit what I think about anything.


Even a broken clock, and all that.
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 19, 2011, 05:34:26 PM
I read them because of Languish but in spite of Berkut. :P
Title: Re: Game of thrones - the books
Post by: Berkut on April 19, 2011, 07:45:56 PM
See, this is what I expect out of Languish! Well played gentleman...well played.