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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: CountDeMoney on April 18, 2011, 05:02:42 AM

Title: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 18, 2011, 05:02:42 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fahoy.tk-jk.net%2FMoreImages7%2FDoolittlesRaidTakeOff.jpg&hash=79b1e31a3bf03588f4fcd173c5c131116dbe27fb)

QuoteOf the 80 pilots and crew involved in this hazardous mission, 71 survived, one crew member died on bailing out, two were killed on crash landing, five were interned in Russia, and eight were captured by the Japanese. Of these, three were executed in Shanghai in October 1942, one died as a Prisoner of War, and the remaining four survived to be released at the end of WW2.

Of the survivors from this daring raid, twelve lost their lives later in the war.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidpride.com%2FUSA%2FDC%2Fimages%2FArlington_015.jpg&hash=ac8887c0dde917b35e5dbdd51b13b0d94ea572b3)
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: Brazen on April 18, 2011, 05:18:28 AM
Is it a holiday there today or are you getting more of an opportunity to slack off at work these days?
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: Caliga on April 18, 2011, 05:43:09 AM
No, not a holiday.
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: Neil on April 18, 2011, 08:20:52 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 18, 2011, 05:02:42 AM
QuoteOf the 80 pilots and crew involved in this hazardous mission, 71 survived, one crew member died on bailing out, two were killed on crash landing, five were interned in Russia, and eight were captured by the Japanese. Of these, three were executed in Shanghai in October 1942, one died as a Prisoner of War, and the remaining four survived to be released at the end of WW2.

Of the survivors from this daring raid, twelve lost their lives later in the war.
Yeah, like Josh Hartnett so that Ben Affleck could fuck his woman without looking like a cad.
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: DGuller on April 18, 2011, 08:32:19 AM
I especially sympathize with the two crew members who neither survived nor died in the raid.  That must've been confusing for them.
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: Valmy on April 18, 2011, 08:34:40 AM
Quote from: Caliga on April 18, 2011, 05:43:09 AM
No, not a holiday.

Fortunately we do not celebrate battles which I think is in bad taste.
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: grumbler on April 18, 2011, 09:03:35 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 18, 2011, 08:32:19 AM
I especially sympathize with the two crew members who neither survived nor died in the raid.  That must've been confusing for them.
To which two do you refer?  The article, in common with many in wikipedia, is badly written.  Of the 80 crewmen, 77 survived the bailout/landings, three were executed, five imprisoned (of whom one died), and the remaining 69 made their way (eventually) to Allied lines (5 of them going from the USSR, where they had been interned).  I dunno what the author was thinking when he or she wrote that "71 survived."  Type for 77, maybe.  Or just bad math.  Or maybe just careless writing.
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: grumbler on April 18, 2011, 09:04:13 AM
Quote from: Valmy on April 18, 2011, 08:34:40 AM
Quote from: Caliga on April 18, 2011, 05:43:09 AM
No, not a holiday.

Fortunately we do not celebrate battles which I think is in bad taste.
Do we celebrate battles which you think in good taste?
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: Valmy on April 18, 2011, 09:11:27 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 18, 2011, 09:04:13 AM
Do we celebrate battles which you think in good taste?

No since I find the celebration of battles to be bad taste.
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: The Brain on April 18, 2011, 09:12:20 AM
I can't talk to animals. :(
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: DGuller on April 18, 2011, 09:12:57 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 18, 2011, 09:03:35 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 18, 2011, 08:32:19 AM
I especially sympathize with the two crew members who neither survived nor died in the raid.  That must've been confusing for them.
To which two do you refer?  The article, in common with many in wikipedia, is badly written.  Of the 80 crewmen, 77 survived the bailout/landings, three were executed, five imprisoned (of whom one died), and the remaining 69 made their way (eventually) to Allied lines (5 of them going from the USSR, where they had been interned).  I dunno what the author was thinking when he or she wrote that "71 survived."  Type for 77, maybe.  Or just bad math.  Or maybe just careless writing.
To whichever two died, but were not listed.  It's logical to count those who died at the hands of the Japanese as essentially casualties of the raid.  But then you'd say that 73 survived.

I also wondered what the real story was with the 5 who were interned in Russia.  Did they really escape?  Or was there some wink-winking going on, where Russians released the Americans fighting against the Japanese without officially doing it.
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: Slargos on April 18, 2011, 09:30:42 AM
Will someone tap me in?
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: grumbler on April 18, 2011, 11:10:10 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 18, 2011, 09:12:57 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 18, 2011, 09:03:35 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 18, 2011, 08:32:19 AM
I especially sympathize with the two crew members who neither survived nor died in the raid.  That must've been confusing for them.
To which two do you refer?  The article, in common with many in wikipedia, is badly written.  Of the 80 crewmen, 77 survived the bailout/landings, three were executed, five imprisoned (of whom one died), and the remaining 69 made their way (eventually) to Allied lines (5 of them going from the USSR, where they had been interned).  I dunno what the author was thinking when he or she wrote that "71 survived."  Type for 77, maybe.  Or just bad math.  Or maybe just careless writing.
To whichever two died, but were not listed.  It's logical to count those who died at the hands of the Japanese as essentially casualties of the raid.  But then you'd say that 73 survived.

I also wondered what the real story was with the 5 who were interned in Russia.  Did they really escape?  Or was there some wink-winking going on, where Russians released the Americans fighting against the Japanese without officially doing it.
Not sure what "two died, but were not listed" means.  The article says that "71 survived, one crew member died on bailing out, two were killed on crash landing, five were interned in Russia, and eight were captured by the Japanese."  That's 71 survivors and apparently 16 non-survivors (though it notes that some of the non-survivors survived).  There aren't two missing from the list, there are seven additional persons added (some of whom presumably represent the non-survivors who survived).

The five from the USSR were unofficially released.  They paid an Afghan smuggler to get them out of the country, but clearly had been sent to the southern USSR to make this possible.

It is almost certainly not a mere coincidence that the only two Raiders who spoke fluent Russian were the pilot and co-pilot of the plane that flew to the USSR, but the full story behind this mission was never released.
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: DGuller on April 18, 2011, 11:19:41 AM
It says that out of 80 crewmembers, 71 survived, and 7 died in various ways.  My quip was about the two unaccounted for (80 - 1 - 2 - 3 -1 = 73 <> 71).
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: Razgovory on April 18, 2011, 11:25:19 AM
Those Mitchells were pretty versatile.
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on April 18, 2011, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 18, 2011, 09:11:27 AM
No since I find the celebration of battles to be bad taste.

Quiet, you.  The Battle of Flowers holiday is the best.
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 18, 2011, 06:00:26 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 18, 2011, 08:34:40 AM
Quote from: Caliga on April 18, 2011, 05:43:09 AM
No, not a holiday.

Fortunately we do not celebrate battles which I think is in bad taste.

Fuck you, you America hater.
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: Ed Anger on April 18, 2011, 06:03:34 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 18, 2011, 11:25:19 AM
Those Mitchells were pretty versatile.

I liked the ones with the 75mm cannon in the nose.
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: KRonn on April 18, 2011, 08:23:25 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 18, 2011, 06:03:34 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 18, 2011, 11:25:19 AM
Those Mitchells were pretty versatile.

I liked the ones with the 75mm cannon in the nose.
The flight and ground crews did a lot of experimenting with adding weapons. Some had multiple .50 caliber machine guns fitted into the airplane's nose, for a more devastating strafing attack.
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: Razgovory on April 18, 2011, 08:59:22 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 18, 2011, 06:03:34 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 18, 2011, 11:25:19 AM
Those Mitchells were pretty versatile.

I liked the ones with the 75mm cannon in the nose.

Should have added those laterally like in Vietnam.  There wasn't enough German planes to intercept them, they could just blow the shit out of Wehrmacht at their leisure.
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: Ed Anger on April 19, 2011, 07:02:47 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 18, 2011, 08:59:22 PM
they could just blow the shit out of Wehrmacht at their leisure.

They did that anyway. All those Slargoses being chased down and strafed by Thunderbolts gives me a murder boner.
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 19, 2011, 07:08:38 AM
We should make the anniversary of Manzikert a worldwide holiday.
Title: Re: Happy Doolittle Raid Day, America
Post by: grumbler on April 19, 2011, 07:11:16 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 18, 2011, 08:59:22 PM
Should have added those laterally like in Vietnam.  There wasn't enough German planes to intercept them, they could just blow the shit out of Wehrmacht at their leisure.
The 75mm in the Puffs were useful for more for illumination starshell than HE.  The HE rounds just weren't accurate enough to hit anything even if they could be aimed.