It's the latest player-made mod for HOI2. It's $10, and promises better tech, a better map, and better AI (though early impressions from players suggests that ain't so).
Anyone going to buy it?
Nah.
I got burned on Iron Cross, which suck-diddly-ucked.
DH might be better, but I'm pretty skeptical - it seems too ambitious, and thus will be bug-ridden and crappy.
I will wait to see how it goes, but I may end up buying it. Hopefully the MP component works well. Ideally, I'd like to set up an MP game of it in the near future similar to how we did EU3.
How was the arsenal of Democracy? What's the difference? I know I liked HOI2 much better then HOI3.
What Raz said.
Weird having these multiple fan games, no definitive version.
How well does it simulate naval warfare and especially dreadnoughts?
1914-1918 is a centerpiece of the game, so I imagine it does a decent job.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 07, 2011, 08:39:58 PM
1914-1918 is a centerpiece of the game, so I imagine it does a decent job.
Actually, the complaints so far are mostly that the 1914 scenario is underdeveloped and has awful AI.
Quote from: Faeelin on April 07, 2011, 08:59:06 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on April 07, 2011, 08:39:58 PM
1914-1918 is a centerpiece of the game, so I imagine it does a decent job.
Actually, the complaints so far are mostly that the 1914 scenario is underdeveloped and has awful AI.
Not surprising. They're trying to do too many things.
QuoteHow was the arsenal of Democracy? What's the difference? I know I liked HOI2 much better then HOI3.
Pretty good, and well-polished. There's not as many changes as DH - the timeframe, techs, units, and general set-up is pretty much the same, but that's likely why it works well and isn't as buggy. The changes to production makes building things more fun. The devs are planning to add bigger changes to later patches. IIRC they plan to eventually overhaul naval combat, which is still pretty much like vanilla and thus still kind of screwy.
Arsenal of Democracy was basically a mod that cost money. As mods go, it wasn't terrible. But HoI2 is looking dated, even more so than the current batch of P'dox games, which is saying a lot.
My experience with it has turned me off these two other efforts.
THe most atttractive thing about this mod is that it is standalone.
I have up on HOI2 last time I had to reinstall and figure out how to get all the mods to work with the various expansions.
Quote from: Berkut on April 09, 2011, 01:58:15 AM
THe most atttractive thing about this mod is that it is standalone.
I have up on HOI2 last time I had to reinstall and figure out how to get all the mods to work with the various expansions.
The good thing is of course that this problem solving is more challenging than the vanilla game.
Quote from: Berkut on April 09, 2011, 01:58:15 AM
THe most atttractive thing about this mod is that it is standalone.
I have up on HOI2 last time I had to reinstall and figure out how to get all the mods to work with the various expansions.
According to Steam, you're playing it right now. So, how is it.
I dunno. I didn't really play HOI2 enough to really know how much "better" this is, if it is better at all. All seems new to me, and I am very low on the learning curve.
What do you think of the WW1 scenario? That's what I'm really interested in.
The WWI scenario is broken.
You guys never learn.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 11, 2011, 09:51:55 AM
The WWI scenario is broken.
In what way?
CdM - HOI 2DD is my favorite Paradox game of all time, so one would a mod would be at least as fun.
I looked at the Darkest Hour thing at Paradox. What exactly is the big deal? It doesn't really look that different.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 12, 2011, 06:14:55 AM
I looked at the Darkest Hour thing at Paradox. What exactly is the big deal? It doesn't really look that different.
HOI 2 had a broken WW2 campaign. This one adds an unplayable WW1 scenario.
I would be willing to give the '36 scenario a shot MP.
The game definitely seems suitable for MP to overcome whatever problems there are with the AI. The tech tree is good and seems well-balanced and the claim system is pretty neat to mess around with. I do also enjoy the way the decision system is implemented, though I'm still digging at it.
If anyone is actually interested in MP at some point, please weigh in here. Thus far, we have Berkut and myself, at least, and my brother (though he doesn't know it yet).
Quote from: Habbaku on April 12, 2011, 09:42:41 PM
The game definitely seems suitable for MP to overcome whatever problems there are with the AI. The tech tree is good and seems well-balanced and the claim system is pretty neat to mess around with. I do also enjoy the way the decision system is implemented, though I'm still digging at it.
If anyone is actually interested in MP at some point, please weigh in here. Thus far, we have Berkut and myself, at least, and my brother (though he doesn't know it yet).
What is the learning Curve I'd like it much to get back into some war gaming MP action :)
Learning curve is moderate to high - similar to EU3, although with a much tigher focus (pretty much just WW2).
The nice part is that the game itself is $10. So you aren't risking much to give it a shot.
That's four. Ideally, we're looking for 8 total, but up to 10-12 would be great to have around so that the minors wouldn't be retarded or simply militarily-controlled at best.
Nations I would consider playable (and in descending order of importance) are :
Germany
Soviet Union
USA
Japan
Britain
Italy
Nationalist China
Romania
Hungary
Nationalist Spain (or Republican Spain)
Turkey
Brazil
Argentina
Australia
Canada
Bulgaria
Sweden
I messed around a bit with Japan last night. They actually seem pretty interesting with a '36 start.
I forgo extending the war with China in the hopes of keeping my trading partners (US, UK, etc) happy. But they all got pissed at me anyway.
One thing that will take some getting used to, but that I think I like over vanilla HOI 2, is that divisions take a lower amount of IC to build but take considerably longer to actually finish. It takes nearly a year to build a new infantry division, so you have to plan for the long-term rather than just spamming divisions.
Quote from: Berkut on April 13, 2011, 08:09:02 AM
Learning curve is moderate to high - similar to EU3, although with a much tigher focus (pretty much just WW2).
The nice part is that the game itself is $10. So you aren't risking much to give it a shot.
Ok I will buy it some time tonight and see what it is like for now though i am officially in... If we do this at a different time.. my dad, even with his promotion, should have the time to actually play.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 13, 2011, 02:53:34 PM
One thing that will take some getting used to, but that I think I like over vanilla HOI 2, is that divisions take a lower amount of IC to build but take considerably longer to actually finish. It takes nearly a year to build a new infantry division, so you have to plan for the long-term rather than just spamming divisions.
Are there cheapo brands of infantry divisions you can raise in a hurry? it sure doesn't take a year to create the troops or equipment and few German soldiers in late WW2, for instance, spent a year between conscription and action.
How long did it take to train a new division in WWII? Say, a typical Infantry division.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 14, 2011, 11:22:41 AM
How long did it take to train a new division in WWII? Say, a typical Infantry division.
That would really depend.
The Soviets raised them, trained them, and lost them in a loss less time than that...
Quote from: grumbler on April 14, 2011, 10:34:53 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on April 13, 2011, 02:53:34 PM
One thing that will take some getting used to, but that I think I like over vanilla HOI 2, is that divisions take a lower amount of IC to build but take considerably longer to actually finish. It takes nearly a year to build a new infantry division, so you have to plan for the long-term rather than just spamming divisions.
Are there cheapo brands of infantry divisions you can raise in a hurry? it sure doesn't take a year to create the troops or equipment and few German soldiers in late WW2, for instance, spent a year between conscription and action.
Yes, there are cheap and quick to build militia and garrison divisions. Militia, unlike vanilla HOI, aren't even terrible, just not worth it if you have the time to build regulars. There are also techs that decrease the build time.
Typing on a Blackberry is annoying.
Quote from: Razgovory on April 14, 2011, 11:22:41 AM
How long did it take to train a new division in WWII? Say, a typical Infantry division.
Basic training takes about 4-6 weeks depending. But if you only send out troops with BT they'll be awfully green. If you're raising a division from scratch, i.e training all specialists and such it would take at least a year, but if you're able to siphon off specialists and officers from other formations, I'd say after four months of training you'll have a division that can at least hold a defensive position.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 14, 2011, 01:57:08 PM
Yes, there are cheap and quick to build militia and garrison divisions. Militia, unlike vanilla HOI, aren't even terrible, just not worth it if you have the time to build regulars. There are also techs that decrease the build time.
Then that sounds about right. Getting a 'real" infantry division might well have taken all or most of a year, given the need to train at so many different levels. The German "Old men and Boys" Volksgrenadier divisions certainly were not at that level of skill... but then, neither were their opponents.
Quote from: grumbler on April 15, 2011, 11:29:10 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on April 14, 2011, 01:57:08 PM
Yes, there are cheap and quick to build militia and garrison divisions. Militia, unlike vanilla HOI, aren't even terrible, just not worth it if you have the time to build regulars. There are also techs that decrease the build time.
Then that sounds about right. Getting a 'real" infantry division might well have taken all or most of a year, given the need to train at so many different levels. The German "Old men and Boys" Volksgrenadier divisions certainly were not at that level of skill... but then, neither were their opponents.
?? Was the American military that bad or were the Volkssturm units only deployed to the Eastern Front?
Volkstrum and Volksgrenadiers were different formations.
Quote from: Habbaku on April 14, 2011, 01:57:08 PM
Quote from: grumbler on April 14, 2011, 10:34:53 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on April 13, 2011, 02:53:34 PM
One thing that will take some getting used to, but that I think I like over vanilla HOI 2, is that divisions take a lower amount of IC to build but take considerably longer to actually finish. It takes nearly a year to build a new infantry division, so you have to plan for the long-term rather than just spamming divisions.
Are there cheapo brands of infantry divisions you can raise in a hurry? it sure doesn't take a year to create the troops or equipment and few German soldiers in late WW2, for instance, spent a year between conscription and action.
Yes, there are cheap and quick to build militia and garrison divisions. Militia, unlike vanilla HOI, aren't even terrible, just not worth it if you have the time to build regulars. There are also techs that decrease the build time.
Typing on a Blackberry is annoying.
Owning a Blackberry is annoying. Its like being stuck in 2005, forever. How do you like the Jonas Brothers, see Rome yet?
How is the map in Darkest Hour? HOI2 has some serious edges in gameplay over HOI3(Notably, research teams), but the map is dramatically inferior. The small number of provinces make getting "rolled" all too easy, especially when combined with what appears to be a year long time to replace infantry. HOI3's dramatic increase in the number of provinces made advanced tactics, vast fronts where one could be gaining and losing at the same time, and actual strategic maneuvers viable.
I would want something reminiscent of that.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg4.hostingpics.net%2Fpics%2F384689Decisions.png&hash=01d87fe238a89759895dfa20c7b3a4b6fc4a1657)
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?528564-Screen-shots-from-the-game
That's the WWI scenario.
Quote from: Faeelin on April 15, 2011, 05:42:55 PM
?? Was the American military that bad or were the Volkssturm units only deployed to the Eastern Front?
The Volksturm were even worse. They may, indeed, have been deployed only against the Soviets. Not sure they were ever organized in divisions, though.
How is DH with deterministic events?
A lot of the HoI2 mods, as well as Iron Cross, suffer from events that basically force you down one path. E.g. in IC, if you don't follow an event path when starting Barbarossa, you get penalties. You can't just declare war using the diplomatic option.
For $10, I bought it. The WW1 scneario is a bit flawed, but I think it's worth it for that alone; just not sure why the Brest Litovsk events are so buggy.
A small quibble, but revolters that have ministers in WW2 lack them in WW1.
Most specifically, of course, this applies to the Confederacy. A shame, as a breakaway Confederacy is more plausible in 1914 than 1941.
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 17, 2011, 10:29:03 AM
A small quibble, but revolters that have ministers in WW2 lack them in WW1.
Most specifically, of course, this applies to the Confederacy. A shame, as a breakaway Confederacy is more plausible in 1914 than 1941.
Indeed.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg684.imageshack.us%2Fimg684%2F4109%2Famericanfront.jpg&hash=e7f1861b674d7d110fd33657dd35e94c591519fb)
I look forward to making a series of events for the black uprising as they burn your fields while General Pershing breaks the Confederate war machine by occupying Alabama.
On that note, I really thought the South's IC was overstated. 122, really? Far be it from me to doubt it, but I was surprised it had the industrial capacity of a world power.
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 17, 2011, 01:50:45 PM
On that note, I really thought the South's IC was overstated. 122, really? Far be it from me to doubt it, but I was surprised it had the industrial capacity of a world power.
The war did destroy the southern capital system, and Birmingham did face a handicap in industrializing with the way the American steel industry was structured, thanks to Pittsburgh.
The bigger handicaps to southern industrialization would have been a lack of education and protective tariffs, IMO. Though I'm not sure the former would remain a problem if the south had won.
Er, I was just referring to the South's starting IC in the 1914 scenario. But you really think an independent South would have high tariffs? I respectfully disagree.
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 17, 2011, 02:11:23 PM
Er, I was just referring to the South's starting IC in the 1914 scenario. But you really think an independent South would have high tariffs? I respectfully disagree.
Every nation acquired them in the 19th century, even those with primarily agricultural economies. Argentina, Australia, Canada... I admit the Confederacy could fuck up in plenty of ways, but protectionism was the global trend.
The South could have become an industrial power, but it's unlikely. After the Cotton market crashed they might have industrialized, but more likely they would have followed the economic path of South America and would have similar politics. By 1914 it probably would have another civil war and a history of Caudillos and tyranny. That is if the US hadn't simply annexed them or they hadn't just split up.
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 17, 2011, 02:11:23 PM
Er, I was just referring to the South's starting IC in the 1914 scenario. But you really think an independent South would have high tariffs? I respectfully disagree.
How much do the other powers have? If it's more than Austria-Hungary I could maybe see that.
Far more than Austria-Hungary. It puts them in the league of France, about double japan or italy, four times the turk, just a tier below germany/britain/russia
(russia's enormous IC being the other odd bugbear in the game)
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 18, 2011, 02:32:38 AM
Far more than Austria-Hungary. It puts them in the league of France, about double japan or italy, four times the turk, just a tier below germany/britain/russia
(russia's enormous IC being the other odd bugbear in the game)
Did they not alter the values from vanilla?
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 18, 2011, 02:32:38 AM
Far more than Austria-Hungary. It puts them in the league of France, about double japan or italy, four times the turk, just a tier below germany/britain/russia
(russia's enormous IC being the other odd bugbear in the game)
Russia has more IC than France? :huh: I suppose that, in a fantasy game, you can make up your own rules, but that seems odd to me.
The values were altered from vanilla. There are things like wartime IC penalties, and Russia has a higher one- they have lower effective IC, and are kept out of the entente by event, in a separate alliance with Serbia/Montenegro, to keep them from getting any blueprints and generally mired in their tech backwater.
But even so, it gave me pause too.
Now that I sat down and played it a bit, it kinda stinks. The USSR gets couped into becoming market liberal Russia in a couple of years, no matter what you do, it seems. China always falls, the naval AI still sucks...
But the modders who made it promise it will all be fixed in a patch to be released at an undetermined date. :lmfao:
Hmm, I played as the USSR, and did not get couped successfully at all.
The Germans also forgot to invade, so now it is 1944, and I am at war with the Allies over Turkey and Iran...
Quote from: Faeelin on April 25, 2011, 07:17:04 AM
Now that I sat down and played it a bit, it kinda stinks. The USSR gets couped into becoming market liberal Russia in a couple of years, no matter what you do, it seems. China always falls, the naval AI still sucks...
But the modders who made it promise it will all be fixed in a patch to be released at an undetermined date. :lmfao:
So just like that POS Iron Cross then? :lol:
At least AoD is playable.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on April 25, 2011, 11:11:21 AM
Quote from: Faeelin on April 25, 2011, 07:17:04 AM
Now that I sat down and played it a bit, it kinda stinks. The USSR gets couped into becoming market liberal Russia in a couple of years, no matter what you do, it seems. China always falls, the naval AI still sucks...
But the modders who made it promise it will all be fixed in a patch to be released at an undetermined date. :lmfao:
So just like that POS Iron Cross then? :lol:
At least AoD is playable.
Eh, it was $10, and the guys behind it made the WiF mod for HOI2, which was pretty good. I'm playing a game as Germany now; if you use a nice enough carrot, you can get France to join the axis after you conquer them. Bwahah!
Given my ongoing disappointment with HOI3, it may be time to lay out £7.95...
It's pretty fun. Enjoying a good game as France, 1940. I feel wars of attrition are far more workable now, as battles last longer and accordingly divisions bleed more. You can make an enormous battle with 30 divisions on each side go on for quite some time, with enormous attendant losses.
Bought it.
Started scenario modding.
Discovered lazy bastards have used what amounts to random numbers for additional units in the OoB units changed or added from the Paradox originals rather than creating them sequentially (damned double IDs! :mad:)
Also discovered lazy bastards haven't bothered matching their OOB unit names with the unitnames files in the scenario DB (which is doubly annoying as they actually have modified the file in question; they just haven't made sure the same format has been used in the scenario files to the unitnames file.)
Actually, the unitnames file seems to be a problem with most mods. Kaiserreich is a great example of this; a massively modded scenario with massive and interesting event chains...and (for example) the British Raj successor state of Delhi, run by expatriate Brits and Hindus, produces units with Pakistani names as the tag used is "PAK".
Decided to play Kaiserreich mod; I really think that the Kaiserreich modders need to reduce the number of dissent events given the reduction in the ability of consumer goods to reduce dissent.
Also...
9 Australasian Divisions have been conducting an amphibious assault on partisan held Adak (1 militia division) from July 17th 1937 to October 2nd 1937 (now) during which time they have "won" the battle three times - yet the fight is still ongoing...
Well, I really think that "Kaiserreich" in "Darkest Hour" is the equivalent of slow torture (and should be banned by the Geneva coinvention) when playing as Canada.
(1) When reloading, it is not fun having to reload multiple times due to events triggering that are supposed to trigger when a nation leaves an alliance...not when a game is reloaded (average number of reloads required = 7.)
(2) March 1938 - mid-April 1938 taking the best part of eight hours due to multiple reloads...as either Australasia or Japan jump ship from the Entente for no apparent reason (no coups, no events etc.) Since Japan is just about the only non-Entente nation that can be persuaded to join the Entente, this is particularly annoying.
It does explain why the Entente "never does anything" (according to forum comments) when played by the AI; how can they do anything when they cannot expand their alliance reliably?
(3) The assault on Adak? After swapping out Australasians for Nationalist French the assault continues. As of April 16th 1938 the militia division still holds out after nine months of continuous combat.
Maybe I should actually play some Darkest Hour instead... :hmm:
The joke is on you, seriously.
Quote from: Berkut on May 19, 2011, 11:22:56 AM
The joke is on you, seriously.
I'm just glad he is complaining about real issues rather than the nitpicks he typically regales us with.
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 19, 2011, 11:22:56 AM
The joke is on you, seriously.
I'm just glad he is complaining about real issues rather than the nitpicks he typically regales us with.
Nitpicks? How can you nitpick games that promise "historically accurate" starting positions and aren't set pre-circa 300BC? Assuming you are referring to my Divine Wind comments, that is? :hmm:
Quote from: Agelastus on May 19, 2011, 12:34:21 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 19, 2011, 11:22:56 AM
The joke is on you, seriously.
I'm just glad he is complaining about real issues rather than the nitpicks he typically regales us with.
Nitpicks? How can you nitpick games that promise "historically accurate" starting positions and aren't set pre-circa 300BC? Assuming you are referring to my Divine Wind comments, that is? :hmm:
That and...
QuoteDiscovered lazy bastards have used what amounts to random numbers for additional units in the OoB units changed or added from the Paradox originals rather than creating them sequentially (damned double IDs! :mad:)
Also discovered lazy bastards haven't bothered matching their OOB unit names with the unitnames files in the scenario DB (which is doubly annoying as they actually have modified the file in question; they just haven't made sure the same format has been used in the scenario files to the unitnames file.)
Actually, the unitnames file seems to be a problem with most mods. Kaiserreich is a great example of this; a massively modded scenario with massive and interesting event chains...and (for example) the British Raj successor state of Delhi, run by expatriate Brits and Hindus, produces units with Pakistani names as the tag used is "PAK".
While no doubt issues, the granularity of your complaint...
I'm glad I avoided this turd. ^_^
Makes me feel better about falling for the Iron Cross turd.
Quote from: Agelastus on May 18, 2011, 12:53:44 PM
Decided to play Kaiserreich mod; I really think that the Kaiserreich modders need to reduce the number of dissent events given the reduction in the ability of consumer goods to reduce dissent.
The joke is on you for playing a mod that entails Huey Long reviving the Confederacy and Syndicalists who feel the need to perform land reform against the great aristocrats of Minnesota.
My Great War mod is up here. Alas, the Confederacy's usually dead by 1917, with Canada under the Yankee boot long before that. My heart bleeds.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?532346-Great-War-American-Front
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fm%2F84%2F5802%2Funionpeace.jpg&hash=ca63ef29e0293a2e0bdb447da6243292df9fb074)
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on May 19, 2011, 01:18:01 PM
I'm glad I avoided this turd. ^_^
I think Turd is strong. For $10, it's worth it.
Yeah, DH itself is pretty fun.
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 12:39:24 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on May 19, 2011, 12:34:21 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 19, 2011, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 19, 2011, 11:22:56 AM
The joke is on you, seriously.
I'm just glad he is complaining about real issues rather than the nitpicks he typically regales us with.
Nitpicks? How can you nitpick games that promise "historically accurate" starting positions and aren't set pre-circa 300BC? Assuming you are referring to my Divine Wind comments, that is? :hmm:
That and...
QuoteDiscovered lazy bastards have used what amounts to random numbers for additional units in the OoB units changed or added from the Paradox originals rather than creating them sequentially (damned double IDs! :mad:)
Also discovered lazy bastards haven't bothered matching their OOB unit names with the unitnames files in the scenario DB (which is doubly annoying as they actually have modified the file in question; they just haven't made sure the same format has been used in the scenario files to the unitnames file.)
Actually, the unitnames file seems to be a problem with most mods. Kaiserreich is a great example of this; a massively modded scenario with massive and interesting event chains...and (for example) the British Raj successor state of Delhi, run by expatriate Brits and Hindus, produces units with Pakistani names as the tag used is "PAK".
While no doubt issues, the granularity of your complaint...
:hmm:
While I take your point, the bolded portion is surely a worrying indicator of poor project management/oversight.
Quote from: Faeelin on May 19, 2011, 01:53:22 PM
The joke is on you for playing a mod that entails Huey Long reviving the Confederacy and Syndicalists who feel the need to perform land reform against the great aristocrats of Minnesota.
Yes, they were stretching a bit in finding potential factions for a US civil war... :D
Quote from: Faeelin on May 19, 2011, 01:53:22 PM
My Great War mod is up here. Alas, the Confederacy's usually dead by 1917, with Canada under the Yankee boot long before that. My heart bleeds.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?532346-Great-War-American-Front
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fm%2F84%2F5802%2Funionpeace.jpg&hash=ca63ef29e0293a2e0bdb447da6243292df9fb074)
Your mod, of course, being based on Turtledove's farcical Timeline-191. eh?
Actually, I had seen you were working on it; I think I'lll wait until the CSA/Entente is able to pull off a draw at least one time in four.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on May 19, 2011, 01:18:01 PM
I'm glad I avoided this turd. ^_^
Makes me feel better about falling for the Iron Cross turd.
I course I walked into it after a bout of 2am insomnia. :(
I feel like I ate an entire box of Twinkies and Ho-Ho's. :(
Quote from: Agelastus on May 19, 2011, 03:27:13 PM
Actually, I had seen you were working on it; I think I'lll wait until the CSA/Entente is able to pull off a draw at least one time in four.
The problem is I'm not sure how to plausibly do that unless you pretend that the South has become one Dark Satanic Mill. Holding out until 1917 is pretty appropriate, and it's how it usually does. (The problem being that a human led US can do much, much better)
Quote from: Faeelin on May 19, 2011, 05:16:14 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on May 19, 2011, 03:27:13 PM
Actually, I had seen you were working on it; I think I'lll wait until the CSA/Entente is able to pull off a draw at least one time in four.
The problem is I'm not sure how to plausibly do that unless you pretend that the South has become one Dark Satanic Mill. Holding out until 1917 is pretty appropriate, and it's how it usually does. (The problem being that a human led US can do much, much better)
Am I right in remembering that someone at one point in the books says that the USA outweighs Canada and the CSA combined by about 3:2? Or was it 3:1 and the casualty ratio the Entente was inflicting on the USA 3:2. :hmm:
Anyway, since Canada held out as long as the CSA in the books, I guess that that is your problem - plausibly strengthening Canada so that this is possible.
OK. My opinion of the land combat system in DH?
Somebody's playing a joke on the players.
Attacks are stopped dead whenever opposition is reached (no forward movement at all, as if it was WWI.) This, combined with the enemy's ability to retreat faster than you can advance while recovering (even with motorised units against foot) turns it into a no-fun attrition fest where careful timing can allow you to "steal" provinces being attacked by someone else.
Consider Malta - 11 Canadian divisions spent 3 months* reducing the defending division, only for two UoB divisions that had joined the fight within the last two weeks to steal the province. And no, UOB does not have a core, claim or anything else to Malta.
The same thing is happening in France; not only is encirclement virtually impossible, but key provinces that I as the Entente have been assaulting for weeks are falling to latecomer co-belligerents.
It is, quite frankly, infuriating.
*A problem in itself - the idea of an amphibious assault continuing for that long against an island the size of Malta is, ahem, "Alien Space Bats".
Edit: Actually, I think the best description for the combat system is "Last Man Standing"; that could be said of all HOI games but this is even more pronounced in DH.
Quote from: Agelastus on May 20, 2011, 07:36:11 PM
Am I right in remembering that someone at one point in the books says that the USA outweighs Canada and the CSA combined by about 3:2? Or was it 3:1 and the casualty ratio the Entente was inflicting on the USA 3:2. :hmm:
I've been on a WW1 kick lately, and ISTM it's a bit hard to buy the claim that the side with heavier artillery, tanks, more planes, and the first use of poison gas is actually taking
more casualties than the other side.
So unless you get Confederate ubermen, I think it's pretty onpoint. I'll add some other changes; putting a VP in Halifax, maybe some more Canuck divisions, but still.
Quote from: Faeelin on May 22, 2011, 01:47:11 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on May 20, 2011, 07:36:11 PM
Am I right in remembering that someone at one point in the books says that the USA outweighs Canada and the CSA combined by about 3:2? Or was it 3:1 and the casualty ratio the Entente was inflicting on the USA 3:2. :hmm:
I've been on a WW1 kick lately, and ISTM it's a bit hard to buy the claim that the side with heavier artillery, tanks, more planes, and the first use of poison gas is actually taking more casualties than the other side.
So unless you get Confederate ubermen, I think it's pretty onpoint. I'll add some other changes; putting a VP in Halifax, maybe some more Canuck divisions, but still.
On reflection, I think it was the "3:1 outweigh but we are only inflicting casualties at 3:2"; which is believable as the USA was continuously on the offensive and I think this was stated before the use of tanks became widespread.
The Maltese have always been historically very resilient. :)
Quote from: Agelastus on May 20, 2011, 07:36:11 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on May 19, 2011, 05:16:14 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on May 19, 2011, 03:27:13 PM
Actually, I had seen you were working on it; I think I'lll wait until the CSA/Entente is able to pull off a draw at least one time in four.
The problem is I'm not sure how to plausibly do that unless you pretend that the South has become one Dark Satanic Mill. Holding out until 1917 is pretty appropriate, and it's how it usually does. (The problem being that a human led US can do much, much better)
Am I right in remembering that someone at one point in the books says that the USA outweighs Canada and the CSA combined by about 3:2? Or was it 3:1 and the casualty ratio the Entente was inflicting on the USA 3:2. :hmm:
Anyway, since Canada held out as long as the CSA in the books, I guess that that is your problem - plausibly strengthening Canada so that this is possible.
I think the problem is that the books aren't plausible. A friend and I played a TOAW scenario based on this. Despite a much more militarized Canada and Britain, the Entente was still overwhelmed. They even had Mexican troops along with Russian and Japanese expeditionary corps. I was stuck however by how much it resembled the US civil war though. Stalemate in Virginia and Maryland while US forces crushed Kentucky and marched though the heart of the Confederacy. The war was essentially over in 1916 with both Canada and the CSA completely overrun.
Quote from: Josephus on May 26, 2011, 07:13:19 AM
The Maltese have always been historically very resilient. :)
True! :)
Anyway, I spent yesterday playing Darkest Hour itself as Britain (and browsing the event files when I couldn't believe what I was seeing.)
(1) For some reason, Britain gets no IC increase from "gearing up for war" - France does! :hmm:
(2) The build AI is as useless as ever; but at least with HOI2 you could rely on France building infantry to hold the line. Now, with limited manpower, does it build planes? Does it build ships? No, it builds factories - which is a real pain for Britain given how close they are economically and how I prefer not to let the AI run its' own armies
(military control, the big thing missing from HOI3. :))The French AI also doesn't upgrade units while having low manpower...fortunately, neither does the German AI... :frusty:
(3) Mobilising causes dissent (which, as we all know, is a pain to get rid of in DH.) I thought "fine, this is peacetime, surely the penalties won't apply when I'm at war?" So I looked at the event files and...yes, they do apply. So you go to war, mobilise, and cripple your war making industry (which is what IC is supposed to represent, not your total economy!) In real life governments found alternatives to keep things going (employing people on the dole, reserved occupations, women in factories, mechanisation etc.) which DH ignores.
Obviously, DH's designers are trying to make Dissent substitute for manpower shortages in industry when mobilisation occurs, only the mechanism is not really suitable for it; if they really think a malus is needed, they should just directly apply it as a "mobilisation IC modifier". Dissent, after all, affects partisans and other things as well as industrial output.
(4) Ships take a long time to build...too long. Absent war, Britain could build a "King George V" class battleship in three and a half years (for which, see King George V herself, the only one of her class not significantly affected by the war.) HMS Nelson, in a time of budget cuts, the "Ten Year Rule" and peace took four and a half years to build. USS North Carolina took three and a half years to build.
The battleships laid down by Britain in 1936 in my game have a build time of five and a half years. :hmm:
(5) Which, of course, makes production sabotage all the more infuriating...one wonders what the saboteurs have done to delay a ship a further 10+ months... :mad:
(6) Sliders seem to be adjustable every two years rather than every one. This is not an improvement. :(
(7) Looking at the events, it appears the British Raj (puppet India) has a fifty percent chance of staying out of a war between Britain and Germany...to which one can only say WTF? The only Commonwealth country that came close to staying out of the war was South Africa, and they start off in the Allies!
In fact, the "Allies" are strange...the Raj starts off outside, Bhutan starts off outside, but Nepal is a member? :hmm:
(8) It seems that the British OoB (which I was forced to edit to make it comply with the unitnames file, and to change the names of some units to avoid duplications) is not the only one that slipped through quality control - I am watching the French (now that they are actually building troops) produce new divisions with the same name as deployed divisions in the starting OoB - apart from minor variations in the abbreviations or diacritics used. This may be minor, but is very annoying...garbon...
Although to praise them, they did get rid of two of the three egregious spelling mistakes that Paradox had left in that OoB since HOI (the original game) itself!!! :D
Which means, in summary, the only good thing I can find about the game so far is the map; I feel ripped off, despite the price..
Quality control? There is no quality control in the games industry anymore. Your thinking is distinctly of the pre-Internet age.
Ah, Agel, are you posting this there as well?
Quote from: Faeelin on May 27, 2011, 08:10:29 AM
Ah, Agel, are you posting this there as well?
I hadn't intended to..
And now I've registered the game and spent a little while browsing the tone of the forum and the Developers' replies, I definitely can't be bothered.
I think the discovery (via Fernando Torres' reply to a presumed bug) that normal mode no longer means "no bonuses for anybody" in one specific area was the final straw; if you are having to give the AI help in normal mode with dissent, then you've fucked up the dissent mechanism - it is not
WAD.
Not to mention that further browsing has revealed that they've linked unit production time to your level of mobilisation, a link so egregious I just can't get my head around it - it's reverse logic to that which has led them (I assume) to apply dissent to mobilisation as far as I can see. Not to mention the reason that build times tend to be cut in wartime (at least for warships) has to do with the use of shortcuts and inferior materials - neither of which can be represented in the game (you have the ships quicker, but they are not as good.)
:console:
Hey, this is amusing.
Just being studying the effects of "partial mobilisation" and "increase terms of service" in the game.
Yes, they do cut production time - but they also raise production cost at the same time as they are gutting your economy with dissent. So the reduction in production time does not help as you can no longer afford to build the units. :rolleyes:
Quote
And now I've registered and spent a little while browsing the tone of the forum and the Developers' replies, I definitely can't be bothered.
I think the discovery (via Fernando Torres' reply to a presumed bug) that normal mode no longer means "no bonuses for anybody" in one specific area was the final straw; if you are having to give the AI help in normal mode with dissent, then you've fucked up the dissent mechanism - it is not WAD.
Honestly, that's the kind of stuff that completely turned me off of Iron Cross.
At least AoD, even though it doesn't change the map or make as drastic changes as the other games, works and has a more receptive development team.
So....one year later. Is this any good? Just remembered it today.
Quote from: Josephus on April 19, 2012, 01:45:16 PM
So....one year later. Is this any good? Just remembered it today.
Yeah, it's pretty fun.
thanks. Thinking of getting it.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on May 19, 2011, 01:18:01 PM
I'm glad I avoided this turd. ^_^
Makes me feel better about falling for the Iron Cross turd.
Sigh, I've finally bought the game.
I haven't played vanilla DH, but I have played a bit of Kaiserreich.
Biggest complaints:
*Everyone that's not Russia or China has serious manpower shortages. It's not that much fun.
*Germany and CoF needs balancing in favor of France.
*Torpedo attachments, and naval units in general, need balancing. Torpedoes add a lot of naval attack - for interwar, its +4 for the base attachment, plus several plusses from tech researched. Also, it'd be nice if the ships at the start had attachments - right now it's way to easy to sink the German navy as the Japanese with starting fleets, as long as I put torpedos and fire control on all my ships. The AI doesn't do that, so they're massively outgunned.
You found manpower shortages a real issue, even after conscripting to the highest possible degree? Have you properly used the conscript "decision" system?
As for Kaiserreich-specific complaints, in addition to CoF frequently (but less than 70% of the time!) losing to Germany, National France has just about no chance, even under AI control, of reclaiming the homeland, and Japan has almost no real rival and runs rampant in the Pacific. The Syndicalists almost never win in America- it's strange that a Southern regionalist psuedofascist group wins more.
These are fairly minor, though.
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 26, 2012, 11:27:07 AMThe Syndicalists almost never win in America- it's strange that a Southern regionalist psuedofascist group wins more.
I just saw the Syndicalists win last night - I was playing the Pacific States - but I admit it's rare.
What is Kaiserreich?
Quote from: Berkut on April 26, 2012, 01:57:30 PM
What is Kaiserreich?
An alt-history mod that started with HOI2.
QuoteKaiserrech: Legacy of the Weltkrieg is an Ahistorical Modification to Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon that asks the question: "What if the Germans had won WWI?" The scenario starts in 1936, but there will also be battle scenarios in the next release. The Second American Civil War, the Kazahk-Turkmen War, the Spanish Civil War, The Second Arab Revolt, the Fourth Balkan War, the Austro-Magyar War and The Grand South American War to name a few.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?223176-Kaiserreich-Legacy-of-the-Weltkrieg-Global-Alternate-History-Mod-for-HOI2
Quote from: Berkut on April 26, 2012, 01:57:30 PM
What is Kaiserreich?
Mindless fun, but it's made by Europeans who don't get why their cultures are broken in a way America's isn't.
Hence, the American Civil War, between Nazi Lindbergh, Syndicalists, California, and Generalissimo Macarthur.
Quote from: Faeelin on April 26, 2012, 03:03:44 PM
Hence, the American Civil War, between Nazi Lindbergh, Syndicalists, California, and Generalissimo Macarthur.
That's Huey Long, Jack Reed, California, and Generalissimo Macarthur, thank you very much.
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 26, 2012, 11:27:07 AM
You found manpower shortages a real issue, even after conscripting to the highest possible degree? Have you properly used the conscript "decision" system?
\
That's not in Kaiserreich though, which may be why manpower can be in such short supply in that mod.
There are some real gems of absurdity in the American Civil War events. My personal favourites:
Both Italian Mafia and Papal divisions being volunteers the overwhelmingly Southern-based American Union can receive
Mexico having the option to demand Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California and intervene in the war- this leads to them getting cores somehow!
The basic idea of a syndicalist uprising in America is interesting enough. That the Southern-based faction can't choose separation rather than domination of the country as its goal makes me a sad panda.
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 27, 2012, 12:34:54 AM
There are some real gems of absurdity in the American Civil War events. My personal favourites:
Both Italian Mafia and Papal divisions being volunteers the overwhelmingly Southern-based American Union can receive
The Mafia bit is a little odd, but Father Coughlin is heavily tied to the American Union, so the Papal bit makes a certain amount of sense.
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 27, 2012, 12:34:54 AMMexico having the option to demand Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California and intervene in the war- this leads to them getting cores somehow!
You sure they don't get claims rather than cores?
Yes, honest-to-goodness cores. If America refuses to concede the land, I believe they become claims, but that there is an event for them to eventually become cores regardless if Mexico occupies them for a period of time.
I suppose that's only reasonable in a world where the Bonapartes show up ruling an African kingdom now and again.
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 27, 2012, 12:22:37 PM
Yes, honest-to-goodness cores. If America refuses to concede the land, I believe they become claims, but that there is an event for them to eventually become cores regardless if Mexico occupies them for a period of time.
I just looked at the Kaiserreich Mexican events, and all I see is claims; can you give an event id or something?
Your mistake was not looking into the annexations folder which governs this sort of thing. There are more, but this is just an example event.
Quote
event = {
id = 11800162
country = MEX
style = 2
picture = "militaryparade1"
trigger = {
NOT = {
core = { province = 1889 data = MEX }
}
control = { province = 1889 data = MEX } #San Francisco
owned = { province = 1889 data = MEX }
}
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1936 }
offset = 120
deathdate = { day = 1 month = december year = 1963 }
name = "Integration of California"
desc = "State of California, we were once forced to secede to the United states after humiliating defeat in 1846 is now firmly integrated into our growing state."
action_a = {
name = "Great !"
command = { type = addcore which = 1889 }
command = { type = addcore which = 1892 }
command = { type = addcore which = 1887 }
command = { type = addcore which = 1883 }
command = { type = addcore which = 1891 }
command = { type = addcore which = 1888 }
command = { type = addcore which = 1889 }
command = { type = addcore which = 1884 }
command = { type = addcore which = 1885 }
command = { type = addcore which = 1890 }
command = { type = addcore which = 1886 }
command = { type = dissent value = 3 }
}
}
Quote from: ulmont on April 26, 2012, 03:30:02 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on April 26, 2012, 03:03:44 PM
Hence, the American Civil War, between Nazi Lindbergh, Syndicalists, California, and Generalissimo Macarthur.
That's Huey Long, Jack Reed, California, and Generalissimo Macarthur, thank you very much.
Honestly America and East Asia are my two real beefs with Kaiserreich, especially since the Entente are so weak anyway. A USA under FDR reigniting the flame of liberty and then smacking the shit out of both the French and Germans is way more interesting than one that just sits there and waits for death.
Quote from: Faeelin on May 03, 2012, 04:53:34 PM
Honestly America and East Asia are my two real beefs with Kaiserreich, especially since the Entente are so weak anyway. A USA under FDR reigniting the flame of liberty and then smacking the shit out of both the French and Germans is way more interesting than one that just sits there and waits for death.
I like both of those. An America that actually has stuff to do prior to 1941 is nice, and while the standard democracy USA tends to get stalled after 1938, the AUS, the CSA, and even the Macarthur USA have quite a lot to do after that. Or just acceptall into the Entente (there's one event that has the USA join the Entente, but it requires Canada to intervene in the Civil War and make headway against the CSA, so doesn't happen often).
As to East Asia, I'm playing a Qing Empire game and have now made it to the Atlantic; it's been a trip.
What annoys me is how the French always DoW Germany and then get their asses handed to them.
East Asia's set up is a little absurd. I laughed when I saw Fengtian be handed to a Methodist, who obviously immediately surrendered the country to the psuedochristian shanxi rebels.