Poll
Question:
How much of the credit does Obama get for Capt. Phillips's rescue?
Option 1: 100%
votes: 7
Option 2: 75%
votes: 0
Option 3: 50%
votes: 1
Option 4: 25%
votes: 6
Option 5: 0%
votes: 7
The recent episode with the Somali pirates attacking a US-flagged merchant vessel & then attempting to ransom the captain is being reported as President Obama's first foreign policy test and that he passed it with flying colors.
I haven't read quite so much about the people more directly involved with the actual operation, however. Which begs the question, how much of the credit does Obama deserve for the successful operation to rescue Capt. Phillips?
Less credit than Harry Truman, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, Emperor Hirohito, Clement Attlee and George W. Bush. More credit than Jimmy Carter, Andrew Johnson and Francois Mitterand.
I thought G20 was his first foreign policy test.
Null vote, as the question doesn't make any sense to me. I don't know how to divide "credit" nor do I understand why I should have to.
0%, obviously. I'm pretty sure any President would have given the exact same order assuming they were presented with the same information. Ok, maybe 0.5%.
I think he deserves as much credit for the success of the operation as he would have lost had it all gone wrong.
In all reality though he deserves very little. There were a couple of decisions, I understand, that helped this. One was that the US started negotiations with tribal elders to get the Captain released. Because of that the pirates allowed their boat to be towed, which in turn put them within reach of the SEALS. Second is that I understand that he authorised the use of force if the SEALS got a chance. I think those were good decisions but this is really a very minor thing. I don't think you learn anything from it except that American specials forces are very good and exceptionally well trained and that they deserve credit for doing their job very well.
The answer to this question depends on a lot of things (mainly on the outcome). In this case, 100% seems fair.
Quote from: DGuller on April 14, 2009, 12:01:14 PM
The answer to this question depends on a lot of things (mainly on the outcome).
:lol:
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 14, 2009, 11:41:18 AM
I think he deserves as much credit for the success of the operation as he would have lost had it all gone wrong.
In all reality though he deserves very little. There were a couple of decisions, I understand, that helped this. One was that the US started negotiations with tribal elders to get the Captain released. Because of that the pirates allowed their boat to be towed, which in turn put them within reach of the SEALS. Second is that I understand that he authorised the use of force if the SEALS got a chance. I think those were good decisions but this is really a very minor thing. I don't think you learn anything from it except that American specials forces are very good and exceptionally well trained and that they deserve credit for doing their job very well.
Agreed pretty much. Pres Obama probably has the final call on things, as the Commander in Chief, but I'd expect there are certain standing orders or rules of engagement in place anyway. I give Obama some small credit for it being on his watch, and I'd hope he wouldn't have been griefed too much if this had gone badly. Have to try sometimes and there are no guarantees, but politics loves to find scapegoats and point fingers.
the pirates should capture someone at 3 AM. only then will we see if Obama is really ready.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 14, 2009, 11:41:18 AM
I think he deserves as much credit for the success of the operation as he would have lost had it all gone wrong.
In all reality though he deserves very little. There were a couple of decisions, I understand, that helped this. One was that the US started negotiations with tribal elders to get the Captain released. Because of that the pirates allowed their boat to be towed, which in turn put them within reach of the SEALS. Second is that I understand that he authorised the use of force if the SEALS got a chance. I think those were good decisions but this is really a very minor thing. I don't think you learn anything from it except that American specials forces are very good and exceptionally well trained and that they deserve credit for doing their job very well.
Agree. It seems that the Navy Captain went out on a limb on this one. He was apparently only authorized to use if the prisoner's life was in immediate danger (d'oh). He interpreted that to mean as soon as he was able to get a clear shot at all three pirates at the same time. If it had gone wrong the WH would've most likely disavowed responsibility.
What I find more disturbing is that Obama had apparently 14 meetings on the hostage situation. WTF? Sounds like a case of paralysis by analysis, not uncommon in those who lack leadership qualities.
Quote from: Hansmeister on April 14, 2009, 02:12:16 PMWhat I find more disturbing is that Obama had apparently 14 meetings on the hostage situation.
I find that VERY hard to believe. :huh:
The real test will be when he has to glass China.
Quote from: Caliga on April 14, 2009, 02:17:06 PMI find that VERY hard to believe. :huh:
Hans has a way of telling a fact and still having it be a lie. Who knows what that really means. Obama might have had 14 conversations about it that got spun as "meetings".
In any case you will never find me complaining our government takes its time and carefully considers its actions. Better slow and careful than fast and reckless. I hope Obama has all the meetings he needs.
Quote from: Valmy on April 14, 2009, 02:20:04 PM
Better slow and careful than fast and reckless.
It was a slam dunk! :mad:
Quote from: Caliga on April 14, 2009, 02:17:06 PM
Quote from: Hansmeister on April 14, 2009, 02:12:16 PMWhat I find more disturbing is that Obama had apparently 14 meetings on the hostage situation.
I find that VERY hard to believe. :huh:
I was wrong, according to the WaPo it was actually 17.
I was waiting for this thread by the Obama-hate crowd. :lol:
Quote from: Hansmeister on April 14, 2009, 02:12:16 PM
Agree. It seems that the Navy Captain went out on a limb on this one. He was apparently only authorized to use if the prisoner's life was in immediate danger (d'oh). He interpreted that to mean as soon as he was able to get a clear shot at all three pirates at the same time. If it had gone wrong the WH would've most likely disavowed responsibility.
If he was your CO, would you fire him?
Brilliant job by those SEAL chaps :thumbsup:
I'd made the mistake of reading an article that described Captain Phillips. From the description he seemed to be a fine man, from that moment on he ceased to be a mere statistic and I became emotionally involved in the drama. Really didn't anticipate this excellent outcome.
About the credit.
The credit goes to the US navy and, more particularly, to the personnel directly involved.
However, just as a failure would have damaged Obama's standing, this success will help him, if only for the feel-good factor.
Quote from: saskganesh on April 14, 2009, 01:56:00 PM
the pirates should capture someone at 3 AM. only then will we see if Obama is really ready.
Hillary will be!
Quote from: Neil on April 14, 2009, 02:26:19 PM
Quote from: Hansmeister on April 14, 2009, 02:12:16 PM
Agree. It seems that the Navy Captain went out on a limb on this one. He was apparently only authorized to use if the prisoner's life was in immediate danger (d'oh). He interpreted that to mean as soon as he was able to get a clear shot at all three pirates at the same time. If it had gone wrong the WH would've most likely disavowed responsibility.
If he was your CO, would you fire him?
He was acting exactly as a leader should.
How much credit does Obama get for the rescue?
Is he taking any? The news clips I saw showed him thanking the people responsible for the rescue.
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 14, 2009, 02:47:38 PM
How much credit does Obama get for the rescue?
Is he taking any? The news clips I saw showed him thanking the people responsible for the rescue.
So far Obama has handled the aftermath quite well.
Quote from: Hansmeister on April 14, 2009, 02:41:10 PM
Quote from: Neil on April 14, 2009, 02:26:19 PM
Quote from: Hansmeister on April 14, 2009, 02:12:16 PM
Agree. It seems that the Navy Captain went out on a limb on this one. He was apparently only authorized to use if the prisoner's life was in immediate danger (d'oh). He interpreted that to mean as soon as he was able to get a clear shot at all three pirates at the same time. If it had gone wrong the WH would've most likely disavowed responsibility.
If he was your CO, would you fire him?
He was acting exactly as a leader should.
If Obama was your CO, would you fire him?
Quote from: Neil on April 14, 2009, 02:50:17 PM
Quote from: Hansmeister on April 14, 2009, 02:41:10 PM
Quote from: Neil on April 14, 2009, 02:26:19 PM
Quote from: Hansmeister on April 14, 2009, 02:12:16 PM
Agree. It seems that the Navy Captain went out on a limb on this one. He was apparently only authorized to use if the prisoner's life was in immediate danger (d'oh). He interpreted that to mean as soon as he was able to get a clear shot at all three pirates at the same time. If it had gone wrong the WH would've most likely disavowed responsibility.
If he was your CO, would you fire him?
He was acting exactly as a leader should.
If Obama was your CO, would you fire him?
I will in 2012.
I am a bit annoyed/concerned that so many details of how this operation went are out in the open, being discussed and all. US military should have said nothing, or little, except that the Captain was released. No need to tell how the SEALS did what/when, nor so much about the what moves the Navy on the scene did. Keep it quiet so pirates or others have no idea how it went or how to counter it in the future.
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 14, 2009, 02:47:38 PM
How much credit does Obama get for the rescue?
Is he taking any? The news clips I saw showed him thanking the people responsible for the rescue.
Nobody said he's claiming credit-- I was referring to the news coverage and "analysis" pieces I've seen that are *giving* credit.
Quote from: Valmy on April 14, 2009, 02:20:04 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 14, 2009, 02:17:06 PMI find that VERY hard to believe. :huh:
Hans has a way of telling a fact and still having it be a lie. Who knows what that really means. Obama might have had 14 conversations about it that got spun as "meetings".
In any case you will never find me complaining our government takes its time and carefully considers its actions. Better slow and careful than fast and reckless. I hope Obama has all the meetings he needs.
Your drift toward Obamapoligism has been saddening :(
Quote from: Hansmeister on April 14, 2009, 03:04:50 PM
I will in 2012.
Consider this another political prediction recorded.
Quote from: DGuller on April 14, 2009, 12:01:14 PM
The answer to this question depends on a lot of things (mainly on the outcome). In this case, 100% seems fair.
Every once in a while, you say something very, very funny. :lol: