Demo's been out for a bit and the game honestly looks quite good. I like the tech trees and the more simplified units are awesome. My army of worthless peasant spearmen and archers will conquer all of Japan. Also, there's a multiplayer campaign mode. Maybe it'll actually work.
Does anyone know of a good fat book about the history of that period? None of that Turnbull copy/paste shit, real history.
Demo:
The menus and stuff are really cool. Love them.
The game itself: Bleh. Crappy to control. Runs like a dog too.
Does the map suck?
I tried the demo. It's not bad, and the AI is surprisingly good for a total war game. But since it's a historical battle, it may be prescripted...
Quote from: Faeelin on March 07, 2011, 11:27:51 AM
I tried the demo. It's not bad, and the AI is surprisingly good for a total war game. But since it's a historical battle, it may be prescripted...
I bet it was. Remember the Agincourt battle in the demo M2TW? The full game didn't quite turn out like that, it was better at modeling mass executions than it was at modeling battles.
The TWS2 demo includes the ability to play a few non-scripted battles.
Quote from: DGuller on March 07, 2011, 11:59:25 AM
it was better at modeling mass executions than it was at modeling battles.
That's because mass executions are more fun. :cool:
My favorite TW campaign: M:TW2, Americas. As New Spain. :menace:
There is a mod on TWCenter that allows to freely play the demo without scripting.
Multiplayer campaign vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjhCtFvEjl8
Quote from: JonasSalk on March 10, 2011, 08:21:21 PM
Multiplayer campaign vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjhCtFvEjl8
That was not at all what I was hoping for :(
Same. I was hoping for a legitimate multiplayer campaign map with all the details and such just like the SP game. I think I'll wait until this game is patched and cheaper.
A positive quasi-review from ign:
QuoteAfter a campaign of Shogun 2: Total War I'm convinced this is the best Total War game since Rome. The scope isn't as broad as Empire, the unit relationships are more familiar, and it's clear Creative Assembly consciously dialed back its ambition for this game, but the result is an immensely satisfying strategy experience that delivers in all of the areas it should. The artificial intelligence works well, the interface is beautifully presented and easily comprehensible, and the play mechanics of the empire- building on the turn-based overworld map and real-time tactical combat are expertly tuned. It's beautiful in and out of battle, and as might be expected at this point, features a memorable set of musical arrangements played with period-specific instruments. Shogun 2 is an incredible strategy game, and should be played by anyone with even the slightest degree of interest.
The return to 16th Century Japan isn't just a change in setting and style for Creative Assembly. It's also a shift in gameplay. Instead of the emphasis on ranged combat and cover in Empire and Napoleon, Shogun 2 has a back-to-basics approach with a focus on sending massive columns of samurai to battle in brutal melee. The unit relationships are clear: spear beats cavalry, sword beats spear, archers can thin ranks before the bulk of your forces meet in the middle of the battlefield, and pretty much anything beats archers at close range.
Though resource exchanges can occur with foreign powers throughout a campaign, the entirety of Shogun 2 is set within Japan. At the campaign's outset in 1545 you'll be able to select one of nine clans, each with a different starting position and associated bonuses. The Shimazu clan is situated in the southwest in a province that touches the water, whereas the Takeda clan is land-locked at the start and must make a few aggressive moves to acquire a harbor and get a few boats into the ocean. The naval combat is a step back from the complexity of Empire. Because most boasts are rowed and use archers instead of cannon with multiple types of shot, there's less to consider when lining up ships for a fight. The sea battles tend to be more about brute force than finesse with sail management and hull orientation, though you still get to play around with boarding, setting enemy vessels on fire and can even set up mines. That being said, naval combat is still important for establishing and maintaining trade routes. You'll need ships capable of protecting trade fleets and, more importantly, navigating safely around Japan's coastlines as alliances and warring factions clog up your quest for dominance across the mainland.
Battles on land are much more involved than those at sea, but they still follow the standard Total War formula. There's always the option to auto-resolve in case you don't want to waste time mopping up if the unit numbers are wildly lopsided, but should you decide to go in and fight in real time, you'll have some important decisions to make. If on the offensive in an open field, you'll need to make the first move and initiate an attack. Usually it's best to move in archers (or, later on, columns of matchlock riflemen) and try to pick off some of the enemy's front line units. I did this to see if I could catch the AI sleeping, which occurred in a few instances.
As I fired arrows the hostiles on the receiving end stood there oblivious, and immediately I was concerned I'd be seeing more issues of this nature throughout. But as it turned out, those glitches were minor and isolated. As battles progressed the AI would move cavalry around behind my front lines to try to flatten archers and kill my general. It would reposition its front lines as I maneuvered around the terrain, taking the high ground and forcing me to attack uphill. I only had the difficulty on the normal setting and was able to overcome the odds, but it was great to see an AI that seemed aware of the battlefield and reacted appropriately to my actions.
The presentation of the battlefield is gorgeous, from the artfully designed interface to the absurd level of detail packed into individual units. The tightly packed columns of infantry spread and react in plausible ways, whether they're being trampled by horses or climbing over the walls of enemy castles. When two groups of warring samurai clash, it feels like collections of individuals instead of giant rigid rectangles slamming into each other. This makes it all the more rewarding to blitz cavalry through the center of a battlefield crowded with thousands of units, finally shattering enemy morale and sending them fleeing for their lives to every corner of the map. The results can be awe-inspiring, effectively fueling the fantasy that you're a masterful military commander like few other games can.
Outside of battle, you've got the turn-based game to worry about. To attain victory, you must become Shogun by capturing and holding specific provinces. In the Short Campaign, which ends in 1580, you'll need 25 provinces, and in the Long and Domination campaigns, both of which end in 1600, you'll need 40 and 60 respectively. That means sitting around being nice to everyone isn't going to cut it. Alliances may serve you well in the beginning, but eventually most of your ties will need to be slashed to extend your empire to as much of Japan as possible, including Kyoto.
Shogun 2 also has Ninjas. When sent to assassinate targets in the field, animated movies pop up over the campaign map showing the Ninja infiltrating a field camp. The sequence of cut-scenes is repeated each time, but at certain points the events in the video can deviate depending on the Ninja's skill and luck . He may silently step past the outer guards, crouch in the trees and drip poison along a string into the target's dinner, or he may be seen long before he gets to that point. Seeing the drama unfold onscreen adds a welcome touch of character to what's otherwise just a dice roll. With consistent success the ninja levels up, freeing up skill points. These can be added to a skill tree to determine boosts to the Ninja's effectiveness at assassinating enemies, establishing spy networks or increasing his chance of escape following an unsuccessful action. Such persistence of progression is consistent across the other two agent types, the Metsuke and Monk, who add their own variables to the flow of the turn-based game, such as detecting enemy agents or sowing dissent in enemy provinces.
Generals have skill trees that can be customized with success in battle as well, giving you plenty of options to tailor the statistical benefits of key figures in your clan for better use in combat or in city management. With roughly a half-century of time covered in the campaign, it also means you won't see a lot of turnover with daimyos, generals and agents. Eventually some will keel over due to old age, but that's not until much later on in the campaign when you should already have an empire established.
Across the campaign map the AI of the other factions appears to behave intelligently. If you marry off one of your daughters to a clan to strengthen relations, that clan won't randomly break your alliance and start gobbling up your territory. On the other hand, other clans may arrange alliances amongst themselves to push you off trade routes and, if weakened, will desperately try to negotiate a peace, which of course you can exploit for one-time or recurring payments or trade agreements. Early on it helps to have powerful allies around your borders so you're insulated from attack on multiple fronts and can call on others to join wars you instigate in other areas of the country.
Along with managing tax rates and ensuring that there's enough food and adequate trade and transport infrastructure to support your growing collection of provinces, there's also the issue of religion. Christianity spreads across the land as the seasons tick by, and by deploying Monks or Missionaries it is possible to convert provincial beliefs and disrupt the public order. In some cases, this could lead to rebellion. While managing all of this, it's also important to keep track of your clan's fame. If you conquer too swiftly, for instance, the sitting shogun may consider you a threat, which will cause other clans to turn around and attack you. Nobody ever said trying to become shogun was easy, right?
Shogun 2: Total War is a high point for the Total War series; a sublime blend of strategic depth with thrilling real-time tactical play. I'd recommend it to anyone, so why aren't I assigning a score yet?
There just so happens to be an immense multiplayer component in Shogun 2. Much more than in previous games, Shogun 2 encourages you to go online. There's a multiplayer campaign that can be played co-operatively or competitively, and then there's the Avatar mode. In this mode you name and create an avatar, an armored warrior that serves as the physical representation of your online persona. After creating the avatar and customizing your clan's emblem, you're presented with a map of Japan divided into provinces. By moving your avatar icon across the map, you effectively invade other territories, which opens up real-time battles against human opponents. There are a huge amount of unlocks and options for customization here related to your skills, army loadout, and different pieces of armor that can be slotted on your avatar. It's even possible to opt into another's campaign mode, which means you basically invade someone's single-player campaign, taking the spot of the AI in one of their battles (this option can be disabled when creating a single-player campaign if you'd rather not potentially face off against human opponents).
While this sounds great, I haven't had a chance to play online yet, and don't feel comfortable with scoring anything until I have. As a result, I'll be holding off on delivering a final review until some time next week. But even if the code supporting the multiplayer features breaks a leg on Shogun 2's launch day of March 15th, it's still a great single-player strategy game.
That's a very glowing review. Whatever Creative Arts paid for it, it wasn't enough.
Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2011, 04:32:24 PM
That's a very glowing review. Whatever Creative Arts paid for it, it wasn't enough.
I don't think I've ever seen a TW game get less than stellar reviews, now that you mention it... :shifty:
Tried the demo. Seems to suck.
The pdox trolls say this game can't be modded. If that's true, I'm out.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 11, 2011, 11:24:29 PM
The pdox trolls say this game can't be modded. If that's true, I'm out.
So that means that nobody can finish it? That sucks.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on March 11, 2011, 11:24:29 PM
The pdox trolls say this game can't be modded. If that's true, I'm out.
Blatantly false.
If people have already modded the demo, I don't think that rumor is true.
Supposedly it is the same engine as Empire and Nappy, so much more difficult to mod, but it can be done.
Steam links a preview, which looks to be rather fair.
It praises the way the game and interface is rich in theme, but states that there is nothing new to total war fans, and that altough the campaign AI is good at Normal, the battle AI is totally braindead on that level, and only turns on various routines like attempts at flanking on Hard. But, there is no separate changing of campaign and battle difficulty :wtf:
So looks like playing it on at least Hard will be mandatory.
Isn't playing on Hard mandatory for wargamers who are worth a shit anyway?
It depends. I'm playing M2TW Stainless Steel mod, and doing it on Hard would be just too tedious. You get lots and lots of battles as it is, and you're swamped with AI attacking you. You can't auto-resolve battles, because you're strategically disadvantaged, so you have to manually rape AI armies one by one. Hundreds of turns with a couple of battles per turn get tiring.
Quote from: DGuller on March 14, 2011, 11:24:29 AM
It depends. I'm playing M2TW Stainless Steel mod, and doing it on Hard would be just too tedious. You get lots and lots of battles as it is, and you're swamped with AI attacking you. You can't auto-resolve battles, because you're strategically disadvantaged, so you have to manually rape AI armies one by one. Hundreds of turns with a couple of battles per turn get tiring.
:yes:
Ahh, okay. How is that SS mod, anyway? What's the major draw to it?
Quote from: JonasSalk on March 14, 2011, 12:57:37 PM
Ahh, okay. How is that SS mod, anyway? What's the major draw to it?
The draw for me is that in unfucks things that are fucked up in the vanilla, and have never been fixed. It's also better balanced, and has a number of nifty sub-mods that fix annoying issues (like permanent watchtowers, so that you don't have to spam them yourself).
:hmm:
On Hard, an AI force 1.5 times of mine managed to defeat me while it was on the defense, with me using the standard Total War tactic, ie. leaving a token line, massing on one flank to round up the AI line from the side.
It retreated up a hill (despite being numerically superior), supported the two spears unit which got caught by my attack (and thus could not pull back) with its general (kinda stupid but hey), then took all of his remaining army and rushed my bluff of a line with everything else he got.
So sure, I took it for braindead, but it's still nice.
On TWCenter, the feedback I get on the Campaign game on higher levels is that it is insanely difficult. Even regulars get beaten to a pulp at Very Hard or Legendary difficulties.
Quote from: Drakken on March 15, 2011, 03:06:56 PM
On TWCenter, the feedback I get on the Campaign game on higher levels is that it is insanely difficult. Even regulars get beaten to a pulp at Very Hard or Legendary difficulties.
I kept restarting usually because while I was busy fighting with my enemy, my ally severed trade ties, let me be too poor to grow further, and then blitzed me with an überstack I could not finance to counter.
Were the last 3 posts about Stainless Steel, or Shogun?
Quote from: DGuller on March 15, 2011, 04:27:49 PM
Were the last 3 posts about Stainless Steel, or Shogun?
Mine were about Shogun.
Playing it some more, the tactical AI is probably the best so far in the series but not dramatically better than Nappy's. Still prone to utter stupidity.
Campaign is a bitch though.
Game is $40 online. Still not cheap enough.
They need to do a Total War game about the American Civil War.
Quote from: Caliga on March 16, 2011, 07:11:01 AM
They need to do a Total War game about the American Civil War.
there is an ACW mod for Emipire TW.
Hmmm... I own Empire: TW (not installed right now tho). Is the mod any good?
Quote from: Caliga on March 16, 2011, 07:38:21 AM
Hmmm... I own Empire: TW (not installed right now tho). Is the mod any good?
dunno, never tried it... Empire suxxorz so I don't bother.
Even Medieval (2) really sucks for me these days.
Wars always just come down to assaulting enemy castles and big mob-football style battles at the central flag.
Yeah, the thing about 95% of the battles being a city assault is definitely a drag.
Ironically, in my current M:TW 2 Americas campaign, the only battle I've actually lost was a non-city battle. My army was almost totally destroyed. :Embarrass: But I was ambushed by the Maya in the middle of the Yucatan jungle, so I didn't feel that bad about it--though strategically I should have been sailing my troops around the periphery of the peninsula rather than marching through it.
You let those dirty primitive redskins beat you? Turn in your American badge.
Almost my entire army was made of dirty primitive redskins, so really they just slaughtered each other. :cool:
General got killed tho, and he and his posse were of course Spaniards. :blush:
Quote from: Caliga on March 16, 2011, 02:14:38 PM
Almost my entire army was made of dirty primitive redskins, so really they just slaughtered each other. :cool:
General got killed tho, and he and his posse were of course Spaniards. :blush:
Yikes, natives being led by a Spaniard into a battle. Giving blankets is more humane than that.
Update out, just broke my game. :rolleyes:
Tells me 'incomplete installation of total war' :mad:
Edit: apparently the patch broke the game for everyone, woops.
Update to Shogun, you mean?
Quote from: Alcibiades on March 16, 2011, 04:08:05 PM
Update out, just broke my game. :rolleyes:
Tells me 'incomplete installation of total war' :mad:
Edit: apparently the patch broke the game for everyone, woops.
So Johan is working for Creative Assembly now?
They fixed it, was probably down for about an hour.
Yeah, you are being a little harsh on the game.
The Campaign AI is competitive and not a push-over on normal levels, the Battle AI doesn't act like a complete retard anymore, the AI seeks to expand on its own and gang up on the player only when you become Shogun, and at higher levels, especially on Legendary, the game is extremely Nintendo hard.
You wanted a challenging AI, you got a challenging AI. Can't say CA didn't deliver on that notch despite the naysayers. I don't complain when I get raped by the Chessmaster AI when I put it at Grandmaster level.
I play on hard and it's still a pretty easy game. Going to have to notch up the difficulty.
The strategic Ai is pretty good, but I completely rape the battle Ai, still.
Browsing the twcenter forums I have realized it is possible to separately change the battle difficulty once you have started the game.
Quote from: Drakken on March 17, 2011, 09:15:11 AM
Yeah, you are being a little harsh on the game.
The Campaign AI is competitive and not a push-over on normal levels, the Battle AI doesn't act like a complete retard anymore, the AI seeks to expand on its own and gang up on the player only when you become Shogun, and at higher levels, especially on Legendary, the game is extremely Nintendo hard.
You wanted a challenging AI, you got a challenging AI. Can't say CA didn't deliver on that notch despite the naysayers. I don't complain when I get raped by the Chessmaster AI when I put it at Grandmaster level.
If the AI is hard without cheating, I am impressed. If CA delivered "on that notch" by allowing the AI to cheat, then it failed to deliver on that notch.
So are we going to have our own Languish clan in MP or what?
i can't decide if i like this game or not. Stupid rebels are very annoying.
As a starting nation pick a western clan. you can basically corner the market in trade and make a killing.
fuck these Christian rebels, they are ruining me. I am spending way more on supressing them accross my realm, than the profit I gained from opening a trade port for the Europeans. Fuck'em all.
Solution: Convert and turn Japan Kirishtan.
Can you convert in this game?
http://www.blisteredthumbs.net/2011/03/shogun-2-angry-review/
So, is it worth getting even if I'm not that much into Japan?
I am really no big fan of ninja movies, but I seem to remember liking the tv series Shogun starring Richard Chamberlain. Maybe that's why I like Shogun 2. The fact that I know very little about medieval Japan.
I've only played a few hours, and while I worry about the lasting appeal (and the fact that the DVD version installed under steamapps), it seems like a geniunely good game. It has the graphics you'll never see in strategy games in general, and a bit of character development with your generals, ninjas and monks, a whole host of factions and battles that definitely prove memorable.
But mostly, I just think it is very atmospheric. There's also a sense of urgency, knowing that your puny clan only has a limited amount of turns to become great.
It's probably not as great as the reviews say, and like I mentioned, I can imagine the lasting appeal to be a bit limited. Of course, you can expect addons and expansions and DLC to pop up any time now, so maybe I am wrong.
Quote from: Tamas on March 19, 2011, 01:19:47 PM
fuck these Christian rebels, they are ruining me. I am spending way more on supressing them accross my realm, than the profit I gained from opening a trade port for the Europeans. Fuck'em all.
Is it really that bad? I'm only playing on normal, but it seems pretty easy for monks to keep everything peaceful and Buddhist.
Quote from: DGuller on March 19, 2011, 11:52:39 PM
Can you convert in this game?
Yes. You can buy a trading port upgrade that will begin converting the province to Christianity. Once the Christian % is high enough you'll get the option to convert your nation to Christianity.
Quote from: Fate on March 20, 2011, 12:35:11 PM
Quote from: Tamas on March 19, 2011, 01:19:47 PM
fuck these Christian rebels, they are ruining me. I am spending way more on supressing them accross my realm, than the profit I gained from opening a trade port for the Europeans. Fuck'em all.
Is it really that bad? I'm only playing on normal, but it seems pretty easy for monks to keep everything peaceful and Buddhist.
I did not have any monasteries, having not researched it. Clearly a mistake.
I caved and bought it.... not too bad.
My quick advice for noobs,
- keep an eye on your food production, castles cost food to maintain, if you run out of food (like I did, running at -8) rebellions will destroy you. And if they don't destroy you they raze your farms and capture towns producing more farms meaning you are in perpetual catastrophy.
- specialize your towns. Having four towns each with spear, sword, bow and stable dojos gives you mediocre quality, having four towns each with one of the dojos, a relevant encampment, a buddhist monastary, and either ninja house or market gives a stronger culture, economy and army quality without limiting ability to produce an army. Only loss is replenishment rate, which is partially (or completely) compensated by having an encampment.
- limit the ambitions of underlings (and heirs) any general with 4 or more in command stars will get the trait "Delusions of Grandeur" which inevetably leads to seppuku and if the general has an heir to possible revolt. If you have a non daymio general on 3 stars, send him home. Or even better, get a general to 3 stars, then make him comissioner of something in the home province. He can always raise an army to counter an unexpected threat. Get your heir to 3 stars and then either suicide your daimyo or have the heir wait for his time.
- garrison your towns with both melee and archer units in sufficient numbers. 3 ashigaru spearmen and 3 ashigaru archers with the retainer contingent can hold off an AI army with a general and up to 15 ashigaru units inside a fort played sensibly. Do not autoresolve defending sieges unless you are outnumbered 5-1.
- cultivate your monks, they can give cumulative tech bonuses. Also plan your Daimyo skill set, keep focused on one tree, go for all the military skills as they get progressively more expensive to aquire.
- money is pretty tight in this game, so try to monopolize trade and the ashigarus are quite decent. The spear wall trait makes the spearmen useful in holding the line while the more agressive and powerful units outflank, the ashigarus archers are also not much worse than the samurai archers.
My only real gripe is the sameness of the factions.
Then again, no flaming pigs, wardogs or Immortals are all good.
Yeah, adding "hero" units always pissed me off, or magic powers, like the Dwoowids in R:TW.
I'm playing on hard now.. my armies are almost pure ashigaru. My economy means that I cannot upgrade my cities to build better units. I can get a spear samurai here and there from my capital province. But mainly any non ashigaru and spear samurai units come from buildings built by the AI. I am constantly so stretched that I need 10 more ashigaru much much much more than I need that that level 3 citadel.
Wow, so they made the game semi-realistic in that you cannot magically afford 100,000-man professional armies in the 1600s?
Also: game is down to $33 on Amazon now. A few more weeks and I might buy it.
Bought shogun 2 despite the high cost and past experiences. I'd enjoy it, and I want nice things.
How mew did you pay for it?
Quote from: JonasSalk on March 30, 2011, 11:40:39 AM
How mew did you pay for it?
C$33,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
which, when sold to recycling, will fund the purchase of one copy of Shogun 2 TW.
I'm playing Shogun 2 Realism
DL: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=3239
Discussion: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=437766
Works fine, making the samurai units smaller and nigh on invelnerable to ashigaru as long as they are not massivly outnumbered. Ashigaru bowmen are nerfed by increased armour values and their lack of ap rating, making arquebusquiers very dangerous to the badly outnumbered samurai. I now build the trade ports where I have monastaries to keep unrest down.
Seeing my single unit of warrior monks, make the war cry and break three units of ashigaru spearmen (60 vs 3x180) is just sweet. Replacing those monks after they get massacred by arquebusquiers at range is harder.
The game is more rock - paper -scissors than before and enemy composition becomes much much more relevant. Dealing with AP Samurai Archers and Matchlock Ashigaru is a completely different task from dealing with yumi (bow) ashigaru or even the AP but unarmored Yumi Monks.
Yeah, I remember warrior monks pwning everything but Christian soldiers in the first Shogun. Good to see that there's already a nice mod out for it.
Right now I'm playing an Oda campaign on Hard and focussing on ashigaru. I'm gonna limit my castles to level two and just build a market and encampment (either archery or armour) to mass produce ashigaru. I'm beelining for max level markets and farmland which will allow me to spam them.
My gut feeling is that I just broke the game with that strategy. Higher level markets are real money spinners (provided you have enough food).
The problem with focusing overwhelmingly on your economy is that you have inferior troops (Ashigari) while the enemy will be fielding more advanced troops. Perhaps this can be overcome with sheer numbers, but the TW games have rarely seen a mass horde of peasants beat a smaller professional army of advanced soldiers.
Quote from: JonasSalk on March 31, 2011, 11:27:24 PM
The problem with focusing overwhelmingly on your economy is that you have inferior troops (Ashigari) while the enemy will be fielding more advanced troops. Perhaps this can be overcome with sheer numbers, but the TW games have rarely seen a mass horde of peasants beat a smaller professional army of advanced soldiers.
Comparing the Oda Ashigaru to the Yari Samurai.
Attack 5 vs 6
Charge 1 vs 15
Defense 4 vs 8
Armor 2 vs 5
Morale 4 vs 10
Price 200 vs 700
The Samurai is superior, yes, but as you can see it costs 3.5 times as much. Obviously, when faced with a full price enemy army I'll have to hide behind walls. But, then again, I'll have a few more full card ashigaru armies running about doing useful stuff.
Edit: I autoresolved the assault on Kyoto with four full stacks with 12,440 against 5,500 defender on turn 91. I have patience, but not that much.
Playing the multiplayer. After two days I am 3-2 for naval battles and 21-10 for land battles. I joined a clan, Kawaii Desu Desu, and will strive tirelessly for it.
I am already an Old Master though. over half my defeats were yesterday; today's defeats have with one exception been to much higher ranked players I was automatched against who fielded units I can't even build. I am: above the curve.
Goddammit. wtf. I remembered that I had purchased NTW a little while back when it was on sale for $7 or so on Steam and decided to fire it up. Playing the Italy campaign, I got fed up with a little stack of Austrians running around Torino and cornered them with one of my main armies (Duroc). In the ensuing battle, my artillery absolutely slaughtered them before they could even get into musket range, so while they were fleeing in a panic, I got all :smugface: and sent the light cavalry after them.
Yeah.
These fucking morons, despite being told to use the melee attack, charge up to them in a big mass and unload their carbines into each other multiple times while I just stared in shock. Result: 130 casualties among four experienced cavalry units (from 38 or whatever each to 18, 11, 8, 13 ffs) that now have to be slowly replenished instead of the zero that it should have been. They shot the hell out of each other. Whatever. Napoleon marches on Trient Klagenfurt as I type.
How does unit reinforcement work in Shogun? Do they regain troops over time automatically, or is there a button you push?
According to the demo, they gain slowly over time. Probably gain faster depending on buildings and if you're in friendly territory or in your castles or towns.
Quote from: JonasSalk on April 02, 2011, 10:43:46 PM
According to the demo, they gain slowly over time. Probably gain faster depending on buildings and if you're in friendly territory or in your castles or towns.
Yeah there are things like supply depots in NTW that increase the reinforcement rate. I rather like it this way (except when my mentally retarded troops kill each other for no reason).
They regain over time while you keep your army in your domain, and they stop when you cross the frontier. IIRC, they regain faster if in the castle.
Currently trying the All-in-one mod the latest DarthMod, with the Takeda. I almost lost a 3-to-2 battle in my favour at Normal because my units in my Center routed. Thank God for reserves.
Attrition is a nice addition in vanilla Total War.
Camping a superstack in winter is no longer Higly Recommended And Valid Strategy.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on April 02, 2011, 09:55:50 PM
Goddammit. wtf. I remembered that I had purchased NTW a little while back when it was on sale for $7 or so on Steam and decided to fire it up. Playing the Italy campaign, I got fed up with a little stack of Austrians running around Torino and cornered them with one of my main armies (Duroc). In the ensuing battle, my artillery absolutely slaughtered them before they could even get into musket range, so while they were fleeing in a panic, I got all :smugface: and sent the light cavalry after them.
Yeah.
These fucking morons, despite being told to use the melee attack, charge up to them in a big mass and unload their carbines into each other multiple times while I just stared in shock. Result: 130 casualties among four experienced cavalry units (from 38 or whatever each to 18, 11, 8, 13 ffs) that now have to be slowly replenished instead of the zero that it should have been. They shot the hell out of each other. Whatever. Napoleon marches on Trient Klagenfurt as I type.
How does unit reinforcement work in Shogun? Do they regain troops over time automatically, or is there a button you push?
Gotta press that nice melee button
It's been the case for several games now that you could press control + click to have them shift to melee.
Quote from: JonasSalk on April 03, 2011, 01:30:29 PM
It's been the case for several games now that you could press control + click to have them shift to melee.
I think it has been like this since shogun even.
Quote from: Alcibiades on April 03, 2011, 12:23:34 PM
Gotta press that nice melee button
Quote from: medespite being told to use the melee attack
;)
They simply decided it would be a good idea to shoot each other up before going in with the swords.
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 03, 2011, 02:43:09 PM
Quote from: JonasSalk on April 03, 2011, 01:30:29 PM
It's been the case for several games now that you could press control + click to have them shift to melee.
I think it has been like this since shogun even.
Probably, yeah. I'm fairly certain I remember doing that way back in 2000 when I played the game.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on April 03, 2011, 04:40:00 PM
They simply decided it would be a good idea to shoot each other up before going in with the swords.
It was crowded.
meh.. the pace of the campaign game is all wrong.
Realm Divide usually happens way way way before I start putting any more than a few samurai or cavalry in my armies. The AIs extreme aggression and complete unwillingness to defend it's cities means that the AI powers blitz each other and for the player the best defense is to blitz any opponent.
AI "brilliance" is basically down to high selective anti player diplomacy bias (send entire army against player) as well a thin avenues of approach (no possibility of outflanking or maneuvering)
Quote from: Alcibiades on April 04, 2011, 03:47:53 PM
It was crowded.
:D Well they fixed that problem
real quick.
Should I buy a hard copy or Steam it?
I think there was some trouble with Steam and the previous TW mods.
Quote from: Siege on May 01, 2011, 09:20:07 PM
Should I buy a hard copy or Steam it?
I think there was some trouble with Steam and the previous TW mods.
They all use Steam, even the boxed versions. It's been like this since Empire.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on April 03, 2011, 04:40:00 PM
Quote from: Alcibiades on April 03, 2011, 12:23:34 PM
Gotta press that nice melee button
Quote from: medespite being told to use the melee attack
;)
They simply decided it would be a good idea to shoot each other up before going in with the swords.
Or they had the Fire at will box checked.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on April 03, 2011, 04:40:00 PM
Quote from: Alcibiades on April 03, 2011, 12:23:34 PM
Gotta press that nice melee button
Quote from: medespite being told to use the melee attack
;)
They simply decided it would be a good idea to shoot each other up before going in with the swords.
you need to press the button with the mouse that says "melee attack". that way, they will use their sword and not shoot.
:unsure: I'm not entirely sure how else I can point out that I ordered the cavalry to use the melee attack on the retreating infantry. "Told to use the melee attack" doesn't seem to be working here for some reason. I didn't actually say it to the monitor, then click on the badguys or whatever. I either alt clicked, or used the button to get the little sabre, then put that sabre over the units and clicked. You know....told them to use their swords.....
Anyway, Lucidor is probably right about the fire at will command still being on, although since this was...a month ago now, I can't be sure about it. It wouldn't surprise me. Doesn't really matter now though. That battle is long gone, and I haven't played NTW in a couple weeks.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on May 02, 2011, 11:52:16 AM
:unsure: I'm not entirely sure how else I can point out that I ordered the cavalry to use the melee attack on the retreating infantry. "Told to use the melee attack" doesn't seem to be working here for some reason. I didn't actually say it to the monitor, then click on the badguys or whatever. I either alt clicked, or used the button to get the little sabre, then put that sabre over the units and clicked. You know....told them to use their swords.....
Anyway, Lucidor is probably right about the fire at will command still being on, although since this was...a month ago now, I can't be sure about it. It wouldn't surprise me. Doesn't really matter now though. That battle is long gone, and I haven't played NTW in a couple weeks.
What I mean is there is a button, it looks like swords crossing each other. You need to press this button, then order the attack, otherwise, they stop and they shoot. If you do that, it should work. If it's what you're doing, I'm at lost.
Okay, since I must be hallucinating and I'm not actually typing the part about telling them to use melee, I just fired up NTW to see why it was happening.
Lucidor is correct. When told to attack with their swords while "fire at will" is lit, they will fire their carbines before charging in. If there are two or more cavalry units mixed in with each other, this will result in them shooting the fuck out of each other. They'll really mow each other down. If the infantry is retreating, they will shoot the fuck out of each other multiple times (charging at the one running dude nearby after each one) because of how spread out the infantry unit is. With "fire at will" unlit, they act like "normal" cavalry and don't shoot each other in the back.
I don't think I encountered this again because I basically had to hide my now fucked up cavalry units behind the lines and had fire at will turned off, and in other games I didn't use the same type of cavalry at all.
As a side note, my new computer guts will be arriving today, so I imagine I'll be able to crank up the detail from the current "no grass no lighting medium textures" etc.
That was surreal, I will grant you, MBM.
That, like the cannon on auto-fire firing volley after volley of cannister shot into the backs of your own men is what keeps NTW a little below enjoyable.
Quote from: Lucidor on May 02, 2011, 04:11:04 PM
That, like the cannon on auto-fire firing volley after volley of cannister shot into the backs of your own men is what keeps NTW a little below enjoyable.
I remember the magic arrows that never caused friendly casualties in M: TW II. Position enough archers blasting fire arrows and send in the infantry to win against, well, anything.
Quote from: Lucidor on May 02, 2011, 04:11:04 PM
That, like the cannon on auto-fire firing volley after volley of cannister shot into the backs of your own men is what keeps NTW a little below enjoyable.
Yeah they seem to get pretty enthusiastic about killing friendly troops sometimes.
QuoteI remember the magic arrows that never caused friendly casualties in M: TW II. Position enough archers blasting fire arrows and send in the infantry to win against, well, anything.
Sure it could get stupid if you played it like that, but you don't have to do that. I'd just really like the option of turning FF off just to avoid dumb shit like the cavalry slaughtering each other, the cannons killing the gunners on the next gun over (or annihilating half a nearby friendly infantry unit because they want to shoot at some badguys in that direction), AI infantry shooting themselves when they get crossed up, etc.
I don't know, maybe a distance modifier or something so they don't hit each other at point blank range, but it would leave you the option of killing your own guys if it's useful for...whatever reason.
I am just saying that TW's Two Wrongs do not make a right. It was messy before, and now it's messier.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on May 08, 2011, 11:56:26 AM
I'd just really like the option of turning FF off just to avoid dumb shit like the cavalry slaughtering each other
Did you try pressing the "melee attack" button?
I've heard that could help.
Adjust resolution and reinstall Windows as well.
:moon:
I got it since it's on sale on Steam. Been playing a little as the Shimazu with the Darth Mod.
Quote from: JonasSalk on May 29, 2011, 06:40:08 PM
I got it since it's on sale on Steam. Been playing a little as the Shimazu with the Darth Mod.
Things could have changed, but initially the big mods made the game retarded and easier. Unlike the strategic modes of the previous TW games, shogun 2 made you do meaningful and not straightforward choices and the modders just couldn't live with that apparently. So try vanilla.
Played some. When I got too big suddenly BAM all the squabbling clans united against me overnight and declared war. Except my closest and oldest allies who took a year to turn on me. Didn't seem very realistic...
Quote from: The Brain on September 03, 2011, 08:01:30 AM
Played some. When I got too big suddenly BAM all the squabbling clans united against me overnight and declared war. Except my closest and oldest allies who took a year to turn on me. Didn't seem very realistic...
Ah, the Realm Divide event...
Go play the DarthMod version, it's toned down to more manageable levels.
I played until victory and continued until I controlled all provinces. The other daimyos' piecemeal WW1 style assaults on Kyoto were heroic but somewhat stupid.
The most fun was playing around with gunpowder toys in the later battles.