Was listening to the excellent History of Rome podcast, when the podcaster had an interesting quote from Gibbon; to paraphrase, to be a Roman in the Late Republic (after the Punic wars, during the conquest of the world) was probably the greatest time and place to be alive ever.
Got me thinking. I think that'd actually be pretty close to my top of the list; you get to see very different parts of the world, wealthy, there's some interesting stuff culturally going on, internal stability, economic prosperity coupled with rapid expansion of your nation's influence and borders, etc...
But I don't think it would be at the top for me. For one, I don't think Rome was ever as culturally interesting as ancient Greece was, or even the Hellenistic period, and the austerity and insularity good Republican Roman-ness required might have been a bit much. I'd probably be some whacked out Hellenophile with a beard who all the other Patricians made fun of. That or I'd be interested in Eastern Cults a few centuries too early, and be ostracized anyway.
I think I'd probably be pretty well suited to any major period of exploration, the Dutch, English, and Iberian ones in particular. I think I'd actually probably fit in pretty well during some periods of the British Empire; fascination with captive or at least exotic civilizations appears to be about as British as terrible food, nautical sodomy and bad weather.
My pick; Persian noble during the early Achaemenid Empire. Almost three times the size of all the Empires before it, the largest in Antiquity (substantially more so than those of Rome or Alexander), stretching from Thrace to Western China, Ethiopia to Russia, and including most of the most fascinating peoples of pre-Modern History, fantastic diversity and incredible knowledge of history going back to Sumeria, all under the relatively Enlightened rule of the great Persian Emperors, with Zoroastrianism helping to curb the most violent and perverse aspects of the religion and culture of the conquered peoples.
PS: Lettow, stay out.
I'm quite comfortable in my Detroit ghetto, thank you very much.
Some time after the Matrix is created.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 08, 2010, 04:03:30 PM
Some time after the Matrix is created.
I think that's Al Gore's latest project. A logical next step for him after he invented the internet especially as a means to save the planet!
There's no way I'd be a Persian. Slave by definition, that.
No, I think I'd pick London in the 1800s. Or China during the Three Kingdoms.
Quote from: Strix on April 08, 2010, 04:08:21 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 08, 2010, 04:03:30 PM
Some time after the Matrix is created.
I think that's Al Gore's latest project. A logical next step for him after he invented the internet especially as a means to save the planet!
I want to live in a time when Strix is makes his first political joke that is actually remotely amusing. Actually, now that I think about it, it's a pretty suicidal wish on my part.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 08, 2010, 04:18:21 PM
There's no way I'd be a Persian. Slave by definition, that.
Zoroastrianism doesn't allow slavery. You were way less likely to be a slave in the Persian Empire than in any state before or afterwards for the next 2,000 years. :rolleyes:
300 doesn't count as history. The Spartans spontaneously slaughtered their slave population to keep their killer instinct. The Persians set up the first Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Quote from: Queequeg on April 08, 2010, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 08, 2010, 04:18:21 PM
There's no way I'd be a Persian. Slave by definition, that.
No, I think I'd pick London in the 1800s. Or China during the Three Kingdoms.
Zoroastrianism doesn't allow slavery. You were way less likely to be a slave in the Persian Empire than in any state before or afterwards for the next 2,000 years. :rolleyes:
Au contraire. Everybody is Cyrus' slave. Or Xerxes or Darius, whatever.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 08, 2010, 04:43:45 PM
Au contraire. Everybody is Cyrus' slave. Or Xerxes or Darius, whatever.
It was an Authoritarian Monarchy, but I fail to see how that makes it different from the Seleucids, Bactrians, or, well,
any state in Iran, Central Asia, Mesopatamia, Egypt, Nubia, Eastern Anatolia, the Caucasus or India from the time of the Persians for the next 2,000 + years.
Sparta, a week or so post Thermopylae. 300 widows to be serviced.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 08, 2010, 04:51:43 PM
Sparta, a week or so post Thermopylae. 300 widows to be serviced.
:lol:
Though to be fair, being a Spartan, you'd probably be way more interested in the 300 young boys without "patrons".
Renaissance Italy would have been cool. Say, prosperous merchant in Venice in the XVth century, or Florence in the XVIth.
Quote from: Queequeg on April 08, 2010, 04:53:04 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 08, 2010, 04:51:43 PM
Sparta, a week or so post Thermopylae. 300 widows to be serviced.
:lol:
Though to be fair, being a Spartan, you'd probably be way more interested in the 300 young boys without "patrons".
Marty would be thinking of those 600 feet.
A Cardinal in Rome during the reign of Julius III.
The problem with any of these is it's easy to forget that the vast majority of people at such times were desparately poor.
For me I'd like to say some time during Victorian England (but even then to probably be an explorer / colonist, rather than in downtown London), but most people in the 19th century had a pretty rough life.
Quote from: Barrister on April 08, 2010, 05:04:38 PM
The problem with any of these is it's easy to forget that the vast majority of people at such times were desparately poor.
For me I'd like to say some time during Victorian England (but even then to probably be an explorer / colonist, rather than in downtown London), but most people in the 19th century had a pretty rough life.
I think the implicit assumption in such speculations is that you could be a member of a relatively well-off upper class (without however being the ruler or any other "named" historical figure).
No time in the past, that's for certain. Reading about it is nice, a time machine would be great, but I'll skip the horrible disease, wife dieing in childbirth, random warlords slaughtering and raping my entire village, and shitting in to a bucket next to my bed.
Yes, the proviso is one would have to be rich. Plus the most interesting periods to see can be quite harsh on the rich. After all, one could say one would want to ride alongside Alexander, or see Gaul with Caesar...and then one looks at the next twenty years and realises exactly what did happen to most of the rich and important people who did do this at the time.
I think...I'd like to go back and see the Indus River civilisation, for the simple reason we still know so little about it and its' relationship with Sumer and the later Aryans of the Vedas.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on April 08, 2010, 05:11:50 PM
No time in the past, that's for certain. Reading about it is nice, a time machine would be great, but I'll skip the horrible disease, wife dieing in childbirth, random warlords slaughtering and raping my entire village, and shitting in to a bucket next to my bed.
Fo' Sho'
My other picks: A French aristocrat during the middle of the 18th century. A philosopher in the court of Frederick the Great of Prussia.
The future. In like 800,000 AD.
MORLOCKS :punk:
Quote from: Caliga on April 08, 2010, 05:22:29 PM
The future. In like 800,000 AD.
MORLOCKS :punk:
or the past. I want to ejaculate into the primordial ooze.
A French courtesan circa 17th century cause all they did was have sex.
I'll go on a limb here. The US in the 1990's.
Quote from: Queequeg on April 08, 2010, 04:53:04 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 08, 2010, 04:51:43 PM
Sparta, a week or so post Thermopylae. 300 widows to be serviced.
:lol:
Though to be fair, being a Spartan, you'd probably be way more interested in the 300 young boys without "patrons".
Not to mention that Spartans were pretty happy to share their wives with each other. You don't have to wait until after Thermopylae.
Plutarch gives an anecdote something like this:
Quote
A Spartan visiting Athens was watching the law courts, where a man was being tried for adultery. One of the Athenians asked him,"What is the punishment for adultery in Sparta?". The Spartan replied,"There is no adultery in Sparta." Confused, the Athenian asked,"But, if there were adultery in Sparta, what would the punishment be?" The Spartan thought for a moment and then replied,"The offender would have to give the accuser one bull with a neck so long it could stand on top of a mountain and drink the water from the river in the valley." The Athenian said,"That's impossible. There are no bulls with a neck so long." To this the Spartan answered,"You are just as likely to find a bull with a neck that long as to find adultery in Sparta."
That's probably not it exactly, but it's mostly right.
The US right after WWII, as long as I'm not black. Everybody is making money. Your country owns the whole world. Idiots are getting good jobs. All women are thin.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 08, 2010, 05:28:33 PM
The US right after WWII, as long as I'm not black. Everybody is making money. Your country owns the whole world. Idiots are getting good jobs. All women are thin.
And smoke. Are you a smoker?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 08, 2010, 05:28:33 PM
The US right after WWII, as long as I'm not black.
Or Asian. Or gay. Or a woman.
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 08, 2010, 05:26:16 PM
or the past. I want to ejaculate into the primordial ooze.
You're not supposed to do shit like that. Didn't you read that one book? You'll come back to the present and find that we have President Hitler, not Obama. :(
Quote from: Caliga on April 08, 2010, 05:31:53 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 08, 2010, 05:26:16 PM
or the past. I want to ejaculate into the primordial ooze.
You're not supposed to do shit like that. Didn't you read that one book? You'll come back to the present and find that we have President Hitler, not Obama. :(
Obama is Hitler. So I already did it.
YOUR WELCOME.
http://www.hackcanada.com/canadian/zines/spacemoose/time_machine.html (NSFW)
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 08, 2010, 05:28:33 PM
The US right after WWII, as long as I'm not black. Everybody is making money. Your country owns the whole world. Idiots are getting good jobs. All women are thin.
I dunno - how good a time would it have been to be half Korean? :huh:
Quote from: Barrister on April 08, 2010, 05:38:12 PM
I dunno - how good a time would it have been to be half Korean? :huh:
I dunno. How good a time would it have been to be living in late Republican Rome or Victorian England if you're Ukranian?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 08, 2010, 05:42:00 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 08, 2010, 05:38:12 PM
I dunno - how good a time would it have been to be half Korean? :huh:
I dunno. How good a time would it have been to be living in late Republican Rome or Victorian England if you're Ukranian?
Well you're the one that threw in the "as long as you're not balack" proviso. Personally, I think late Republican Rome would be a dump no matter what your heritage, and Victirian England... if you had money and spoke perfect English I don't think they'd care about your heritage (as long as you're white).
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 08, 2010, 05:42:00 PM
I dunno. How good a time would it have been to be living in late Republican Rome or Victorian England if you're Ukranian?
Is there any time or place it'd be a good time to be Ukrainian?
Hmmm
I'd walk to the Domus Publica the night before the Ides of March and demand to see Caesar, say as a freedman of Servilia on a mission from her mistress. Then I'd explain everything that's gonna happen and watch the great man either : a) have me killed or b) take steps to avoid the conspiracy of the next day. Imagine, seeing History change under your very eyes!
Other than that I wouldn't mind visiting China under the Tang dynasty or have a taste of the life of the french aristocracy just before the Revolution.
G.
Quote from: Barrister on April 08, 2010, 05:47:09 PM
Well you're the one that threw in the "as long as you're not balack" proviso.
Point taken. :weep:
Quote from: Jacob on April 08, 2010, 05:49:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 08, 2010, 05:42:00 PM
I dunno. How good a time would it have been to be living in late Republican Rome or Victorian England if you're Ukranian?
Is there any time or place it'd be a good time to be Ukrainian?
It's always a good time to be Ukrainian. :cool:
Roaring 20s in Paris or Berlin would have been cool, as well.
Quote from: Barrister on April 08, 2010, 05:52:38 PM
Quote from: Jacob on April 08, 2010, 05:49:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 08, 2010, 05:42:00 PM
I dunno. How good a time would it have been to be living in late Republican Rome or Victorian England if you're Ukranian?
Is there any time or place it'd be a good time to be Ukrainian?
It's always a good time to be Ukrainian. :cool:
Definitely not in 1932-33. :hmm:
Quote from: Barrister on April 08, 2010, 05:52:38 PM
Quote from: Jacob on April 08, 2010, 05:49:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 08, 2010, 05:42:00 PM
I dunno. How good a time would it have been to be living in late Republican Rome or Victorian England if you're Ukranian?
Is there any time or place it'd be a good time to be Ukrainian?
It's always a good time to be Ukrainian. :cool:
Especially when you want to test various Game for Gustav scenarios in real life. :P
Quote from: Barrister on April 08, 2010, 05:52:38 PM
It's always a good time to be Ukrainian. :cool:
Considering they were just Russians with a bit of a Polish accent before the mid-late 19th Century, that isn't much of a timespan, even if it were a good one.
French Revolution/First Empire.
Quote from: Queequeg on April 08, 2010, 05:59:14 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 08, 2010, 05:52:38 PM
It's always a good time to be Ukrainian. :cool:
Considering they were just Russians with a bit of a Polish accent before the mid-late 19th Century, that isn't much of a timespan, even if it were a good one.
Trap - spotted. Troll - averted. :showoff:
Quote from: Kleves on April 08, 2010, 06:00:39 PM
French Revolution/First Empire.
There are a lot better ways to die than being slaughtered by Guerrillas in Spain, or worse, Cossacks in the retreat from Moscow.
EDIT: Though being stationed on the North-Eastern Persian border would kind of suck. Brutal, cold, barren, and the natives are all insane drug addicted nomads who make drinking goblets out of skulls.
Quote from: Barrister on April 08, 2010, 06:01:20 PM
Trap - spotted. Troll - averted. :showoff:
:rolleyes:
Not my fault you guys are the Lettows of the East Slavic world.
Quote from: Queequeg on April 08, 2010, 06:04:53 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 08, 2010, 06:01:20 PM
Trap - spotted. Troll - averted. :showoff:
:rolleyes:
Not my fault you guys are the Lettows of the East Slavic world.
Sorry Spellus - you're no grumbler, and I'm no DGuller. You won't troll me today. :nelson:
In all seriousness though, I don't like the usage of the term Ukrainian to describe anything other than self-described Ukrainians. The Kievan Rus', for example, should most certainly not be described as Ukrainian. Both Russia and Ukraine changed a lot from the time of the Conversion to the time the Russians liberated the East Slavs from Papist tyranny, but I think this was probably about equal on both sides.
Now. All lives are interesting, if you know how to live them.
Quote from: Faeelin on April 08, 2010, 06:18:44 PM
Now. All lives are interesting, if you know how to live them.
I agree with this, actually. The reason I put "other" in the title is that I find now very, very interesting.
Quote from: Queequeg on April 08, 2010, 06:12:05 PM
In all seriousness though, I don't like the usage of the term Ukrainian to describe anything other than self-described Ukrainians. The Kievan Rus', for example, should most certainly not be described as Ukrainian. Both Russia and Ukraine changed a lot from the time of the Conversion to the time the Russians liberated the East Slavs from Papist tyranny, but I think this was probably about equal on both sides.
Certainly agree that just as the Kievan Rus shouldn't be described as "Russian", it is equally inaccurate to refer to it as "Ukrainian".
But that's true for a hell of a lot of nationalities. National identity as a concept didn't start to exist until the 18th-19th centuries - which is when Ukrainian nation-hood as a concept also arose.
Quote from: Barrister on April 08, 2010, 06:07:23 PM
Sorry Spellus - you're no grumbler, and I'm no DGuller. You won't troll me today. :nelson:
<_<
Quote from: DGuller on April 08, 2010, 06:26:14 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 08, 2010, 06:07:23 PM
Sorry Spellus - you're no grumbler, and I'm no DGuller. You won't troll me today. :nelson:
<_<
:console:
I think I'd look positively smashing in Europe during the Age of Reason. Breeches, wigs, dueling pistols, parlor games, frottage. Oh yeah.
It's about time we had this thread on Languish whatever.0
We've had it on all the other iterations of Languish & KAPland.
For me The 1920's in NYC, LA, Berlin, Paris, London, various places living in cheap flats, posh hotels fraternizing with the bohemian elite. Flappers :wub:
Other eras I could only stand to be a tourist I think.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 08, 2010, 07:51:35 PM
I think I'd look positively smashing in Europe during the Age of Reason. Breeches, wigs, dueling pistols, parlor games, frottage. Oh yeah.
Wouldn't the smallpox scars cramp your style?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 08, 2010, 07:51:35 PMfrottage.
:huh:
I don't think of that as a peculiarly Age of Reason thing.
My pick would be Iain M. Banks' Culture.
Quote from: Barrister on April 08, 2010, 05:04:38 PM
The problem with any of these is it's easy to forget that the vast majority of people at such times were desparately poor.
For me I'd like to say some time during Victorian England (but even then to probably be an explorer / colonist, rather than in downtown London), but most people in the 19th century had a pretty rough life.
Mostly this. I would love to live in Victorian England but only as middle class or above. No way I would want to experience the average life of an industry worker of that time.
But if we are daydraming, an english trader owning ships in the second half of the 19th century is what I would like to be.
I want to be born after humanity has achieved immortality.
Quote from: Monoriu on April 09, 2010, 01:53:03 AM
I want to be born after humanity has achieved immortality.
You do realize that if you were immortal, you would be never able to retire, right? :P
Quote from: Martinus on April 09, 2010, 01:58:05 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on April 09, 2010, 01:53:03 AM
I want to be born after humanity has achieved immortality.
You do realize that if you were immortal, you would be never able to retire, right? :P
Unless he no longer had need of material possessions.
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on April 08, 2010, 11:27:19 PM
For me The 1920's in NYC, LA, Berlin, Paris, London, various places living in cheap flats, posh hotels fraternizing with the bohemian elite. Flappers :wub:
Hey Buddha, I'll meet you over a round of absinthe at that shady place a couple of blocks away from the Moulin Rouge, bring over some friends! :cheers:
Also, new options:
- Movie producer in Hollywood during the 30s-40s. For one of the Majors, having a hand in the making of the classics.
- Gentleman/Scientist in Britain during the XIXth century. I'd fancy to have some equation, unit or species named after me. :lol:
- NY during the mid-late 70s, getting all new wave-ish and witnessing the emergence of punk.
- Madrid during the 80s.
Quote from: Martinus on April 09, 2010, 01:58:05 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on April 09, 2010, 01:53:03 AM
I want to be born after humanity has achieved immortality.
You do realize that if you were immortal, you would be never able to retire, right? :P
Why not?
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 08, 2010, 04:51:43 PM
Sparta, a week or so post Thermopylae. 300 widows to be serviced.
Paraguay, a week after the end of the War of the Triple Alliance, nearly 90% of the men had been killed.
Quote from: The Larch on April 09, 2010, 03:13:55 AM
- Movie producer in Hollywood during the 30s-40s. For one of the Majors, having a hand in the making of the classics.
Just think of all that ass.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 09, 2010, 05:36:39 AM
Quote from: The Larch on April 09, 2010, 03:13:55 AM
- Movie producer in Hollywood during the 30s-40s. For one of the Majors, having a hand in the making of the classics.
Just think of all that ass.
That could be a nice collateral benefit, yes. :lol:
Quote from: Barrister on April 08, 2010, 06:21:46 PM
Certainly agree that just as the Kievan Rus shouldn't be described as "Russian", it is equally inaccurate to refer to it as "Ukrainian".
To me, referring to Kievan Rus as "Russian" is in the same league as referring to pre-Roman tribes of Italy as "Italian". It's the same word, but clearly used in a different context, no need to get all pissy about it.
As for my pick, some high general/noble serving under Basil II. You get to massacre Bulgars AND Arabs, and get a shot at the throne after Basil dies.
California, 1955 or so.
Quote from: Monoriu on April 09, 2010, 03:17:09 AM
Quote from: Martinus on April 09, 2010, 01:58:05 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on April 09, 2010, 01:53:03 AM
I want to be born after humanity has achieved immortality.
You do realize that if you were immortal, you would be never able to retire, right? :P
Why not?
Because it would be illegal.
The Victorian age was a wonderful time to be alive, provided that one was middle class or rich. They were going to create a better world. If one is a member of the working class, then the 40s and 50s would be a good time to be alive. I feel bad for members of the working class these days.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 08, 2010, 04:03:30 PM
Some time after the Matrix is created.
What about the sequels?
I'd like to take part in the New Economy of the late 1990s. Living in California, being at the cutting edge in an enthusiastic time sounds good.
Quote from: Josephus on April 08, 2010, 05:26:24 PM
A French courtesan circa 17th century cause all they did was have sex.
With men unfortunately but each to his own :)
Maybe a Jew at some point in history? :hmm:
LOL just kidding folks.
Quote from: The Brain on April 09, 2010, 10:09:52 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 08, 2010, 04:03:30 PM
Some time after the Matrix is created.
What about the sequels?
And some time before the Matrix is destroyed. I just want to live in my computer.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 09, 2010, 05:36:39 AM
Quote from: The Larch on April 09, 2010, 03:13:55 AM
- Movie producer in Hollywood during the 30s-40s. For one of the Majors, having a hand in the making of the classics.
Just think of all that ass.
Until Johnny Fontane steals 'em with his olive oil voice and guinea charm.
Quote from: stjaba on April 09, 2010, 04:40:04 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 09, 2010, 05:36:39 AM
Quote from: The Larch on April 09, 2010, 03:13:55 AM
- Movie producer in Hollywood during the 30s-40s. For one of the Majors, having a hand in the making of the classics.
Just think of all that ass.
Until Johnny Fontane steals 'em with his olive oil voice and guinea charm.
Yeah, waking up with your favourite race horse's head next to you in bed surely is a pain in the ass, but it goes with the paycheque.