QuoteLesbian Kiss at Gay Holocaust Memorial Draws Protest
A gay Holocaust memorial that plans to display a video of a lesbian kiss is drawing protests, not from antigay activists, but from historians
By Advocate.com Editors
A plan to exchange an image of kissing men with kissing women at a gay Holocaust memorial in Berlin is drawing protest from some scholars.
Erected in May 2008, the memorial to the estimated 5,000 to 15,000 homosexuals persecuted by the Nazis is a gray concrete slab designed by Ingar Dragset and Michael Elmgreen, and features a window through which viewers can see a looping video, currently of two men in an eternal kiss.
The original plans included changing the sex of the embracing couple in the video every two years, but Alexander Zinn and other Holocaust experts have protested via a letter to culture minister Michael Neumann and gay Berlin mayor Klaus Wowereit, claiming the proposed lesbian kiss video would distort history. The protestors claim that lesbians were not targeted for persecution in the Holocaust.
Neumann defends the planned video, set to debut in May 2010, saying in a statement, "The option of using a lesbian film motif in the memorial is in no way meant to put on the same level the persecution of homosexual men and women under the Nazi regime. Research shows that the persecution of lesbian women by the Nazi regime was not comparable to that of homosexual men. This is also clearly explained in a plaque on the memorial."
A decision based on the complaints is anticipated in the coming weeks.
advocate.com
The protesters are largely correct, but still I thought this is kinda funny. :lol:
Where can I see this lesbian film? And is it real lesbians or the cute made-for-porn lesbians?
Expect visitor numbers at the memorial to rise soon
An anti-gay Auschwitz-type camp should have continued after the war, as a joint Soviet-American project of good will.
QuoteThe protestors claim that lesbians were not targeted for persecution in the Holocaust.
And rightfully so.
Quote from: Tyr on March 25, 2010, 01:19:37 PM
Expect visitor numbers at the memorial to rise soon
And not just their numbers ...
The Nazis only bagged 15,000 gays? FAIL. :(
Quote from: Kleves on March 25, 2010, 06:05:27 PM
The Nazis only bagged 15,000 gays? FAIL. :(
They should have taken pointers from the Iranians.
Quote from: Kleves on March 25, 2010, 06:05:27 PM
The Nazis only bagged 15,000 gays? FAIL. :(
But, but...I've seen Allo Allo. All the German gays were in the army, including most of the generals!!! It was on TV, so it must be true!!! How did they even find 15000 to kill???
If it was 10% of the population back then they came up 585,000 short. Sounds like the gays got off easy.
Quote from: sbr on March 25, 2010, 10:18:14 PM
If it was 10% of the population back then they came up 585,000 short. Sounds like the gays got off easy.
I though that 10% was recognized as being too high. :unsure:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 25, 2010, 10:51:31 PM
Quote from: sbr on March 25, 2010, 10:18:14 PM
If it was 10% of the population back then they came up 585,000 short. Sounds like the gays got off easy.
I though that 10% was recognized as being too high. :unsure:
10% is wishful thinking by the gays...
Quote from: Mr.Penguin on March 26, 2010, 12:21:21 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 25, 2010, 10:51:31 PM
Quote from: sbr on March 25, 2010, 10:18:14 PM
If it was 10% of the population back then they came up 585,000 short. Sounds like the gays got off easy.
I though that 10% was recognized as being too high. :unsure:
10% is wishful thinking by the gays...
It's more like Martinus and some homeless guy that accepts money for getting his dick sucked...
Quote from: Alexandru H. on March 26, 2010, 01:09:09 AM
Quote from: Mr.Penguin on March 26, 2010, 12:21:21 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 25, 2010, 10:51:31 PM
Quote from: sbr on March 25, 2010, 10:18:14 PM
If it was 10% of the population back then they came up 585,000 short. Sounds like the gays got off easy.
I though that 10% was recognized as being too high. :unsure:
10% is wishful thinking by the gays...
It's more like Martinus and some homeless guy that accepts money for getting his dick sucked...
Lame. Is this the best Romania has to offer?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 25, 2010, 05:33:44 PM
QuoteThe protestors claim that lesbians were not targeted for persecution in the Holocaust.
And rightfully so.
Is this "rightfully so" to "the protesters claim" or "lesbians were not targeted"? :P
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 25, 2010, 10:51:31 PM
Quote from: sbr on March 25, 2010, 10:18:14 PM
If it was 10% of the population back then they came up 585,000 short. Sounds like the gays got off easy.
I though that 10% was recognized as being too high. :unsure:
Even then, gays don't claim to be 10% of the populace, but 10% of the
male populace. So sbr's number is twice too high even by this optimistic estimate. :P
Quote from: Jaron on March 26, 2010, 02:21:40 AM
Lame. Is this the best Romania has to offer?
Actually being lame is one of Romania's chief exports. I saw a documentary about Romanian beggars in Poland and some were accused of making their children lame (e.g. by damaging their bones or cutting off their legs altogether) to make them more convincing.
Quote from: Martinus on March 26, 2010, 02:31:39 AM
Quote from: Jaron on March 26, 2010, 02:21:40 AM
Lame. Is this the best Romania has to offer?
Actually being lame is one of Romania's chief exports. I saw a documentary about Romanian beggars in Poland and some were accused of making their children lame (e.g. by damaging their bones or cutting off their legs altogether) to make them more convincing.
Gipsy beggars. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Martinus on March 26, 2010, 02:31:39 AM
Quote from: Jaron on March 26, 2010, 02:21:40 AM
Lame. Is this the best Romania has to offer?
Actually being lame is one of Romania's chief exports. I saw a documentary about Romanian beggars in Poland and some were accused of making their children lame (e.g. by damaging their bones or cutting off their legs altogether) to make them more convincing.
Well thats a general anti-gypo claim, like recently a christian-democrat (lolz) politican of ours said some gypsy women use rubber hammers to hit themselves when they are pregnant because damaged children worth more welfare.
Quote from: Alexandru H. on March 26, 2010, 02:35:22 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 26, 2010, 02:31:39 AM
Quote from: Jaron on March 26, 2010, 02:21:40 AM
Lame. Is this the best Romania has to offer?
Actually being lame is one of Romania's chief exports. I saw a documentary about Romanian beggars in Poland and some were accused of making their children lame (e.g. by damaging their bones or cutting off their legs altogether) to make them more convincing.
Gipsy beggars. :rolleyes:
Yes, we are talking about gypsies. What do you think "Romanian" stands for? :P
Quote from: Alexandru H. on March 26, 2010, 02:35:22 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 26, 2010, 02:31:39 AM
Quote from: Jaron on March 26, 2010, 02:21:40 AM
Lame. Is this the best Romania has to offer?
Actually being lame is one of Romania's chief exports. I saw a documentary about Romanian beggars in Poland and some were accused of making their children lame (e.g. by damaging their bones or cutting off their legs altogether) to make them more convincing.
Gipsy beggars. :rolleyes:
In Poland we call them Romanians. We also have our own Gypsies (who have houses, sometime very rich, if awfully gaudy, who send their kids to Roma-language schools and who have been living here for generations). We differentiate between both groups, because we don't want to insult our Gypsies, by comparing them to Romanians.
I mean, Romanians are probably the only CEE nation that average Poles have nothing for but disdain.
We kinda look down on Czechs (and Slovaks) for having no heroic tradition and whatnot, but we think they are hardworking and industrious. We think Hungarians are kinda cool (if silly with their economy right now). Ukrainians are "younger brothers" (they don't see it that way :P), and we would happily annex them on fraternal terms. Bulgars are a bit barbaric, but at least a lot of people remember Bulgaria as a commie-era vacation destination.
Now, Romania is no good at all. It's a land of beggars and dirty poor people (a racist Polish joke: "How do you impregnate a Romanian woman? You cum into her shoes and flies will do the rest.") and of insane Asia-style dictators and corruption. My boss, a Brit, had to go to Romania for a while and when he got back he admitted that by comparison, Poland is a fully Western country. Apparently there are herds of stray dogs running through Bucharest and shit.
Quote from: Martinus on March 26, 2010, 02:50:19 AMApparently there are herds of stray dogs running through Bucharest and shit.
It is the "Paris of the Balkans". ;)
Martinus reads the 90s literature... :rolleyes: They got rid of most of the dogs (which were a pain in the ass in the early 90s) in 2001-2002. Brigitte Bardot called the mayor that did it (the mayor eventually became our current president) a "murderer", which, of course, made him extremly popular.
As for the rest of his post... wow! He really has no respect for any of his neighbours, even though some of them were there when Poland needed help (1939 :rolleyes:). Racist motherfucker!
Now, to be honest, I never met a good, honest Polack. My best friend is Magyar, I've met great Serbs in Bucharest and I was born in a town that's half-Bulgarian. I have the utmost respect for their countries... but Poland? It should fuck itself in the ass and do us all a favour...
In his defense, when you live in a ghetto you don't go out of your way to rub elbows with your neighbors.
PS, are you part fly?
And another thing, you ungrateful Pollack... in 1939 the Poles had no qualms of coming into Romania in order to escape from the joint German-Soviet invasion. You even had the audacity of transporting your state treasure through this country and nothing happened to it. 50.000 people found refuge here, the soldiers were able to arrive safely in England and form Polish military units. You have the nerves of telling me that the average Pole hates us? That only proves that you're a nation of morons...
And Greeks gave us Plato, Socrates and Aristotle. That does not prevent us from considering modern Greeks a bunch of barely Christianized Turks only with worse food and abysmal financial controls.
Quote from: Martinus on March 26, 2010, 06:52:18 AM
And Greeks gave us Plato, Socrates and Aristotle. That does not prevent us from considering modern Greeks a bunch of barely Christianized Turks only with worse food and abysmal financial controls.
Are you comparing the "Ancient-Modern Greeks" with the "1939-2010 Romanians"? :huh:
Quote from: Alexandru H. on March 26, 2010, 07:09:21 AM
Are you comparing the "Ancient-Modern Greeks" with the "1939-2010 Romanians"? :huh:
Of course not. The Greeks actually had a civilization once. :P
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 26, 2010, 07:15:56 AM
Quote from: Alexandru H. on March 26, 2010, 07:09:21 AM
Are you comparing the "Ancient-Modern Greeks" with the "1939-2010 Romanians"? :huh:
Of course not. The Greeks actually had a civilization once. :P
That's not the point. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Tyr on March 25, 2010, 01:19:37 PM
Expect visitor members at the memorial to rise soon
there, fixed it for you
Reasons, so far, given for why Romanians are civilized.
1) They shoot dogs.
2) They dithered in joining the Axis.
3) They didn't steal polish money.
4) They didn't slaughter or arrest polish refugees.
Alex, I had a higher view of Romania before you opened your mouth.
Quote from: Viking on March 26, 2010, 07:35:09 AM
Reasons, so far, given for why Romanians are civilized.
1) They shoot dogs.
2) They dithered in joining the Axis.
3) They didn't steal polish money.
4) They didn't slaughter or arrest polish refugees.
Alex, I had a higher view of Romania before you opened your mouth.
I'm not in the PR business and the government doesn't pay me for acting nice.
Quote from: Alexandru H. on March 26, 2010, 07:40:13 AM
I'm not in the PR business and the government doesn't pay me for acting nice.
Don't worry, we noticed... though many of us have a sufficiently low opinion of romania that some might have thought that the case.
Quote from: Viking on March 26, 2010, 07:35:09 AM
Reasons, so far, given for why Romanians are civilized.
1) They shoot dogs.
2) They dithered in joining the Axis.
3) They didn't steal polish money.
4) They didn't slaughter or arrest polish refugees.
Alex, I had a higher view of Romania before you opened your mouth.
Actually, they *did* arrest (intern) Polish government, contrary to earlier agreements (thought to be fair IIRC this was done on the insistence of French who wanted their boy Sikorski to be put in charge).
Quote from: Sahib on March 26, 2010, 08:39:28 AM
Quote from: Viking on March 26, 2010, 07:35:09 AM
Reasons, so far, given for why Romanians are civilized.
1) They shoot dogs.
2) They dithered in joining the Axis.
3) They didn't steal polish money.
4) They didn't slaughter or arrest polish refugees.
Alex, I had a higher view of Romania before you opened your mouth.
Actually, they *did* arrest (intern) Polish government, contrary to earlier agreements (thought to be fair IIRC this was done on the insistence of French who wanted their boy Sikorski to be put in charge).
There were 47.000 people passing through. The biggest problem was not the fact that the Polish government was interned, but that the US and western states were not offering enough vizas to go around. The Jewish population was hit pretty hard by the requirements, forcing it to prefer Palestine as a refuge point.
Also I think that the government was only interned for three months, until the Allies transferred as many Polish soldiers as possibile to England, creating thus the possibility of Sikorski to take over.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 25, 2010, 10:51:31 PM
Quote from: sbr on March 25, 2010, 10:18:14 PM
If it was 10% of the population back then they came up 585,000 short. Sounds like the gays got off easy.
I though that 10% was recognized as being too high. :unsure:
oh jeez not THIS thread again? :sigh:
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on March 26, 2010, 11:45:56 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 25, 2010, 10:51:31 PM
Quote from: sbr on March 25, 2010, 10:18:14 PM
If it was 10% of the population back then they came up 585,000 short. Sounds like the gays got off easy.
I though that 10% was recognized as being too high. :unsure:
oh jeez not THIS thread again? :sigh:
It can't be much worse than Alex and Marti trying to decide if Romania or Poland is worse.
I have more sympathy for the vile gas that erupts from my ass every 10 minutes this morning than I have for any East European country.