:frog: :mad:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/18/world/europe/18basque.html
QuoteBasque Group Killed Officer in Shootout, France Says
By SCOTT SAYARE
Published: March 17, 2010
PARIS — Members of the militant Basque separatist group ETA killed a French police officer in a shootout near Paris on Tuesday night, the French authorities said Wednesday.
Officials said it was the first time a member of France's security forces had been killed by the group, which operates primarily in Spain but has long used southwestern France as a staging area for its activities. Under increasing pressure from French and Spanish law enforcement agencies, ETA has in recent months moved some of its operations deeper into France.
In a statement on Wednesday, President Nicolas Sarkozy confirmed that the officer had been killed "during an exchange of gunfire with an ETA terrorist commando unit."
Spain's prime minister, José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, called Mr. Sarkozy on Wednesday afternoon to offer his condolences and discuss joint efforts against ETA.
On Tuesday night, the Paris prosecutor's office said, the police stopped to question four people seen filling the gas tanks of four vehicles at the side of a road in Villiers-en-Bière, a village 30 miles southeast of Paris. Although the police officers did not realize it at the time, the four cars were among six that had been stolen earlier in the evening from a nearby dealership.
For reasons that remain unclear, the officers decided to arrest the four people and were placing them in handcuffs when the two other stolen vehicles arrived at the scene. Occupants of those vehicles began shooting at the police, who returned fire, according to the Paris prosecutor's office, killing the officer. All but one of the suspects escaped.
The police arrested the remaining suspect, a 27-year-old man who reportedly spoke Basque and presented himself as an ETA operative. They also recovered what appeared to be the weapon that killed the officer, a .357 Magnum with its serial number scratched out, Agence France-Presse reported.
The French and Spanish police have detained 34 people believed to be ETA operatives this year, according to the Spanish Interior Ministry, and several of the group's top military and political leaders have been arrested in the past year. Also, large stocks of weapons and explosives belonging to the group have been seized in France in recent months.
Many experts say they believe that ETA has been seriously weakened by the recent arrests and that it has been split by a conflict between its militant and political wings. In regional elections a year ago, a pro-Spanish government came to power in the Basque region of Spain for the first time in 30 years.
Classified as a terrorist organization by the United States and the European Union, ETA seeks an independent state in the Basque regions of northern Spain and southwestern France. Since its inception in 1959, the militant group has been blamed for more than 825 deaths, primarily in bomb attacks against security officers.
A version of this article appeared in print on March 18, 2010, on page A12 of the New York edition.
It seems the french brought this on themselves, but it will have unfortunate implications for the ETA. I wish them well.
Quote from: Lettow77 on March 18, 2010, 12:54:54 AM
It seems the french brought this on themselves, but it will have unfortunate implications for the ETA. I wish them well.
Bitch, please :rolleyes:
Quote from: Lettow77 on March 18, 2010, 12:54:54 AM
It seems the french brought this on themselves, but it will have unfortunate implications for the ETA. I wish them well.
Just to clarify, who are the "them" in your last sentence? The French or ETA?
Now that you mention it, I wish both well. I referred to the ETA, but I wish the French nothing but prosperity and happiness.
I think it is very disrespectful to use the term "whack" in this case. It makes it sound too light hearted, almost comedic. I conjure images of a french policeman being hit in the head by an ETA terrorist with a giant mallet as he rounds the corner.
Poor taste of words on your part, Tim. I bet you wouldn't make a title "Al Qaeda whacks US soldier in Iraq" would you? I didn't think so.
Quote from: Lettow77 on March 18, 2010, 04:46:21 AM
Now that you mention it, I wish both well. I referred to the ETA, but I wish the French nothing but prosperity and happiness.
So why do you wish ETA well?
They are seperatists. The basques, like everyone else, have a right to their own nation. I believe in the right to self-determination, and do not inherently reject violence as a suitable means for solving problems, although it is properly reserved as the last resort.
I tend to support secessionists wherever I find them.
Quote from: Jaron on March 18, 2010, 04:48:53 AM
Poor taste of words on your part, Tim.
The expression you used is awkward and incorrect. Posting rationally is clearly not for you. Instead, why don't you return to trolling and one-liners?
Quote from: Lettow77 on March 18, 2010, 05:37:26 AM
They are seperatists. The basques, like everyone else, have a right to their own nation. I believe in the right to self-determination, and do not inherently reject violence as a suitable means for solving problems, although it is properly reserved as the last resort.
I tend to support secessionists wherever I find them.
So, even despite ETA's long track record of violence against civilians, and their terroristic operations, they still have your support?
Plenty of people support countries with standing armies that commit violence against civilians; I am merely supporting the army of an aspiring country.
Quote from: Lettow77 on March 18, 2010, 06:51:32 AM
Plenty of people support countries with standing armies that commit violence against civilians; I am merely supporting the army of an aspiring country.
It has probably been mentioned many times in more eloquent ways but I'll say it anyway: "You are an idiot!".
I find the actions regrettable, and it's not how i'd conduct secession from a country, but there arguments to be put forward for their manner of conducting business.
I support basque independence, and the ETA is a visible symbol of it.
I apologise if this offends any spanish posters; in a similar manner I have seen some turks take offense at the notion of kurdish independence. Wishining the independence of a section of your country is not equivilent to wishing your country was weakened or what-have-you, and in no way reflects ill feeling torward the spanish people.
Quote from: The Larch on March 18, 2010, 06:49:14 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on March 18, 2010, 05:37:26 AM
They are seperatists. The basques, like everyone else, have a right to their own nation. I believe in the right to self-determination, and do not inherently reject violence as a suitable means for solving problems, although it is properly reserved as the last resort.
I tend to support secessionists wherever I find them.
So, even despite ETA's long track record of violence against civilians, and their terroristic operations, they still have your support?
Why wouldn't they? Violence, even against civilians, is an essential tool of statesmanship.
/nitpick
Title is wrong it wasn't in Paris not even Gross Paris and Dammarie-les-Lys isn't exactly near Paris.
Jaron is right, grammar be damned.
And Lettow, may you live to see your wet dream come true and haunt your nights complete with local businesses closing shop and leaving to escape blackmail, bombs exploding in your street, dumb fanatics administering beatings and arsoning houses and shops willy nilly, and masked thugs firing people in the back at point blank. And don't thank me, you deserve every bit.
Quote from: Lettow77 on March 18, 2010, 06:51:32 AM
Plenty of people support countries with standing armies that commit violence against civilians; I am merely supporting the army of an aspiring country.
You're probably way too off the deep end already, but just to make things clear, ETA is in no conceiveable way an "army", they're a terrorist group, who have killed hundreds of people, many of them with no role whatsoever in the theoretical opression of the Basque homeland, with no qualms about it.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 18, 2010, 07:13:22 AM
/nitpick
Title is wrong it wasn't in Paris not even Gross Paris and Dammarie-les-Lys isn't exactly near Paris.
It kind of is.
Quote from: Lettow77 on March 18, 2010, 07:07:52 AM
I find the actions regrettable, and it's not how i'd conduct secession from a country, but there arguments to be put forward for their manner of conducting business.
I support basque independence, and the ETA is a visible symbol of it.
I apologise if this offends any spanish posters; in a similar manner I have seen some turks take offense at the notion of kurdish independence. Wishining the independence of a section of your country is not equivilent to wishing your country was weakened or what-have-you, and in no way reflects ill feeling torward the spanish people.
There's no possible or conceiveable apology that you may utter about having no problem supporting terrorists who have killed many, many innocent people while chasing their goals.
While I understand your qualms, its not as if armies dont do something similar. Neil has the right of it; violence is something people do to get their aims achieved.
Mind, I stressed it is not something I think they -should- do, or that I would advocate myself.
Spain itself may have at some time or another, possibly, committed ills upon innocents in the pursuit of some greater goal. Or should attacking the innocent always be beyond the pale? I might agree to that, but the South's enemies never seemed to have such reservations.
I see I have touched a nerve with the spanish posters, who by and large are among my favourites, but the basques have the right to their own country. The ETA has the right to persue their violent course of action, and reap the whirlwind when they are brought to justice should they fail.
Alatriste- I must say you have shaken me to my core with your insight of my inner workings. I had hoped that the visions of fire and leather were nestled safely within my mind, but you cut to the quick in addressing my darkest fantasies and perversions. I am: suitably chastised.
The Basques are closer to Native Americans then to southerners Lettow (er by analogy I mean). It would be like tossing you out of your house for the sake of the Chickasaw.
:lol:
I knew Lettow would rejoice at this.
I was going to post something and then realized that it's hopeless. Oh well...
Quote from: The Larch on March 18, 2010, 04:50:37 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on March 18, 2010, 04:46:21 AM
Now that you mention it, I wish both well. I referred to the ETA, but I wish the French nothing but prosperity and happiness.
So why do you wish ETA well?
It involves some kind of brain-related disorder.
I think he mentioned epileptic seizues in another thread.
I thought the ETA was kinda Marxist.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 18, 2010, 09:00:30 AM
I thought the ETA was kinda Marxist.
I thought it was the estimated time of arrival.
Quote from: Grey Fox on March 18, 2010, 07:29:04 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 18, 2010, 07:13:22 AM
/nitpick
Title is wrong it wasn't in Paris not even Gross Paris and Dammarie-les-Lys isn't exactly near Paris.
It kind of is.
Paris != Île-de-France.
It was 4 am when I posted that. Give me a fucking break Neil, you troll more than I do. :wacko:
Quote from: Razgovory on March 18, 2010, 09:00:30 AM
I thought the ETA was kinda Marxist.
"Kinda" defines it pretty well. A few years ago, during a radio interview after an election, a journalist asked a recently elected MP belonging to ETA's political arm to clarify their political position. She started mumbling incoherently. It was hilarious. Palinesque, even.
Quote from: Jaron on March 18, 2010, 04:20:05 PM
It was 4 am when I posted that. Give me a fucking break Neil, you troll more than I do. :wacko:
You should be in bed before then. Try keeping earlier hours, or you'll meet a poor end.
Quote from: Neil on March 18, 2010, 05:06:11 PM
Quote from: Jaron on March 18, 2010, 04:20:05 PM
It was 4 am when I posted that. Give me a fucking break Neil, you troll more than I do. :wacko:
You should be in bed before then. Try keeping earlier hours, or you'll meet a poor end.
I know.
QuoteVenezuela asks for details of charges in ETA case
By IAN JAMES, Associated Press
CARACAS, Venezuela – Venezuela has asked authorities in Spain to detail their accusations against an alleged ETA operative accused of helping the Basque separatist group arrange explosives training with Colombian rebels in Venezuela.
Venezuela asked Interpol in Madrid for details of the indictment naming Arturo Cubillas Fontan, who is among a group of ETA suspects wanted by Spanish authorities, Venezuelan Justice Minister Tareck El Aissami said Thursday.
El Aissami expressed willingness to investigate but also skepticism about possible political motives behind the case. He echoed President Hugo Chavez in dismissing as "pure lies" the claims by a Spanish judge that Venezuela has facilitated collaboration between ETA and Colombian rebels.
Cubillas is accused of being ETA's representative in Venezuela since 1999 and playing a key role in deepening cooperation between the Basque militants and the leftist Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC.
Authorities say Cubillas has lived in Venezuela since 1989, when he came from Algeria under an agreement with Spain. He is one of about 30 Basque separatists sent to Venezuela under various agreements with Spain in the 1980s and early '90s.
Cubillas is now a Venezuelan citizen married to a Venezuelan woman and has held a post in the agriculture ministry in Chavez's government.
El Aissami mentioned the case as Venezuela turned over 18 Spanish citizens imprisoned on drug convictions to Spanish authorities to finish their sentences in their homeland. The prisoners boarded a Spanish air force jet at Caracas' airport along with two children belonging to one of the prisoners.
The handover seemed aimed at demonstrating Venezuela's willingness to cooperate amid tensions over the Spanish judge's order for the arrest of six alleged members of ETA and six members of the FARC — some of whom are thought to be in Venezuela.
The Venezuelan government has said it intends to continue cooperating with Spain in legal investigations, even as Chavez has warned that Spanish companies with investments in Venezuela would suffer if Spain uses the case to damage relations with his government.
Earlier this week, Chavez defended the Basque separatists who arrived in Venezuela years ago, saying he is certain they aren't involved in terrorism.
He also has vehemently denied the accusations by Spanish Judge Eloy Velasco that his government aided collaboration between ETA and the FARC, saying the claims are aimed at harming Venezuela's image internationally.
Chavez's government has publicly joined Spain in rejecting ETA, which has killed more than 800 people since the late 1960s in its battle to create an independent Basque homeland in northern Spain and southwest France.
The judge said in his March 1 indictment that Cubillas helped organize joint training in arms and explosives with Colombian rebels. He alleged that included a 20-day course in 2007 at a ranch in Venezuela's southern Apure state where two ETA members exchanged knowledge with 13 FARC rebels and 7 members of the Bolivarian Liberation Forces, a small pro-Chavez militia.
The indictment also said a man wearing a vest with the insignia of Venezuela's military intelligence agency was present and arrived in a vehicle with military escorts.
Velasco's sources include the accounts of demobilized Colombian rebels and e-mails found in a computer used by FARC leader Raul Reyes, who was killed in a Colombian military raid on a rebel camp in Ecuador in 2008. The indictment said various e-mails describe Cubillas as an ETA delegate in Venezuela.
Cubillas' whereabouts are unclear. Calls to his wife's phone went unanswered Thursday, and he has not spoken publicly about the accusations.
The indictment says Cubillas is wanted for murder under a 1985 court order. But El Aissami said that when Cubillas applied for citizenship years ago, there was no warrant out for his arrest.
He questioned the sudden interest in capturing Cubillas so many years later. "What's behind this campaign?," he asked.
The justice minister said Venezuela is awaiting information about Cubillas' case "that will allow us to go deeper in this investigation."
Quote from: Razgovory on March 18, 2010, 07:46:30 AM
The Basques are closer to Native Americans then to southerners Lettow (er by analogy I mean). It would be like tossing you out of your house for the sake of the Chickasaw.
Perhaps Spain forgot to recognize their sovereignty. :(
Maybe this is all just a ploy to blame prematurely ETA when it was really Al Qaeda, so the Spanish can lose the next election and do more of Bin Laden's bidding when he sends them a "we'll stop killing French cops if you vote Left" ultimatum. Worked before.