Grumbler remembers when just having a woman on ship was bad luck.
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/02/navy_women_subs_022310w/
QuotePentagon announces end of ban on women on subs
By Philip Ewing - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Feb 23, 2010 17:22:20 EST
The Pentagon on Monday notified Congress that women will be able to join submarine crews within 30 legislative working days, making good on the wishes of top Navy commanders announced last fall.
As required by law, Defense Secretary Robert Gates sent a letter to legislative leaders announcing the Navy's plan to lift its ban on female submariners, giving the House and Senate time to absorb the decision and, if members want, to take action. Congress can pass a law forbidding integration, requiring the Navy to wait or perform a study. If it does nothing, as expected, the ban will expire around the end of April.
Technically, the Defense Department needs to give Congress time to absorb the policy change before it can spend money to accommodate women, Gates wrote, according to a copy of his letter obtained by Navy Times.
"The Department of the Navy recently concluded a further review of this matter and has determined it is ready to implement policy changes to support a phased approach to the assignment of women to submarines. No funds to reconfigure submarines to accommodate female crew members will be expended until the Department of the Navy provides its plan to the Department of Defense and Congress. The Department of the Navy stands ready to present the phased approach plan to Congress."
1st women
According to the Navy's initial plans last year, the first women on submarines will likely be nuclear-qualified supply and surface lieutenants already in the fleet, who will join the crews of Ohio-class ballistic missile submarines by late 2011.
Navy leaders called for integrating women onto submarine crews last September, after Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, voiced his support for mixed-gender crews in congressional testimony. Gates' message to Congress on Monday was the payoff of a drawn-out internal bureaucratic process that began in October.
A defense official told Navy Times on Tuesday that this week's notification was similar to the process in 1993 when the Pentagon told Congress the Navy was permitting women to join the crews of surface ships.
Capt. Beci Brenton, a spokeswoman for Navy Secretary Ray Mabus, said Tuesday that he stands behind his statements last year calling for women to be integrated into submarine crews.
"Secretary Mabus believes assigning women to submarines is a great idea and the right thing to do," Brenton said.
Missouri Rep. Ike Skelton, the Democrat who chairs the House Armed Services Committee, gave a carefully worded statement through a spokeswoman Tuesday:
"The DoD's decision to allow women to serve on submarines will present challenges, but these challenges should not be insurmountable for the Navy," he said. "The committee expects a thorough assessment of the effectiveness and risks involved in this decision following its implementation."
Whew. For a moment, I thought the thread was for a "ban on sub women". I was ready to panic.
When I was in Philly, I went to a naval museum, and walked around in a WWII sub. On the bathroom door, there was a poster with two smiling guys, which said "Save water - shower with a friend!" Good luck saving water now, with both genders onboard. :rolleyes:
Quote from: DGuller on February 23, 2010, 07:42:33 PM
When I was in Philly, I went to a naval museum, and walked around in a WWII sub. On the bathroom door, there was a poster with two smiling guys, which said "Save water - shower with a friend!" Good luck saving water now, with both genders onboard. :rolleyes:
They have a nuclear reactor on board, they can desalinate water.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 23, 2010, 07:18:29 PM
Grumbler remembers when just having a woman on ship was bad luck.
Actually, i can remember being on the first ship to have enlisted women assigned to the crew since the Vietnam-era USS
Comfort. That was fun. Not.
Quote from: DGuller on February 23, 2010, 07:42:33 PM
When I was in Philly, I went to a naval museum, and walked around in a WWII sub. On the bathroom door, there was a poster with two smiling guys, which said "Save water - shower with a friend!" Good luck saving water now, with both genders onboard. :rolleyes:
:lol:
Like submarines have "bathrooms," let alone those kinds of posters.
Quote from: grumbler on February 23, 2010, 08:24:30 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 23, 2010, 07:18:29 PM
Grumbler remembers when just having a woman on ship was bad luck.
Actually, i can remember being on the first ship to have enlisted women assigned to the crew since the Vietnam-era USS Comfort. That was fun. Not.
Did the women ruin the traditional sailor sexual practices?
Quote from: Razgovory on February 23, 2010, 08:41:10 PM
Did the women ruin the traditional sailor sexual practices?
Indeed.
Rum, Vaginal Sex & The Lash just doesn't have the same ring to it...
:(
Quote from: grumbler on February 23, 2010, 08:28:02 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 23, 2010, 07:42:33 PM
When I was in Philly, I went to a naval museum, and walked around in a WWII sub. On the bathroom door, there was a poster with two smiling guys, which said "Save water - shower with a friend!" Good luck saving water now, with both genders onboard. :rolleyes:
:lol:
Like submarines have "bathrooms," let alone those kinds of posters.
Yes, it was more of a very cramped stall, sorry for not being precise. As for the poster, it's there, and it wasn't a prank poster, which is what made it funny.
Sub rape incoming.
Maybe in a few years they'll let the women serve inside the submarines as well.
I think women and seamen don't mix. :mad:
Makes sense. The boomer crews may be forced to repopulate the world.
Quote from: grumbler on February 23, 2010, 08:24:30 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 23, 2010, 07:18:29 PM
Grumbler remembers when just having a woman on ship was bad luck.
Actually, i can remember being on the first ship to have enlisted women assigned to the crew since the Vietnam-era USS Comfort. That was fun. Not.
Why not?
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on February 23, 2010, 10:31:11 PM
I think women and seamen don't mix. :mad:
Agreed. Men with men!
Quote from: DGuller on February 23, 2010, 09:55:16 PM
Yes, it was more of a very cramped stall, sorry for not being precise.
I was taking advantage of the fact that bathrooms are called "heads" on ships. Not that you shoudl be expected to know that, of course.
QuoteAs for the poster, it's there, and it wasn't a prank poster, which is what made it funny.
I am quite sure that the poster is a prank (because of the way navy showers actually work - showering with someone else would not save any water), but agree that it is funny, and would be credible to anyone who didn't think about it for a moment or know how navy showers work.
Quote from: Jacob on February 24, 2010, 01:16:02 AM
Why not?
The Navy's preperation for the arrival of women was ill-thought-out, the women's berthing spaces were about 100 times better than the men's, and the ship's leadership was unprepared to deal effectively with the sexual harassment that was inevitable. After two officers got fired at the job, I was transferred over to the job of First Lieutenant (thus becoming responsible for about 100 of the 160 women on board) and, while I loved the job and thought the women were generally great under pressure, the lesbian witch hunts on that ship (and the absurdity of the subsequent courts-martial, in which six of my sailors appeared as defendants) made it a horror story.
Quote from: grumbler on February 24, 2010, 07:23:43 AM
Quote from: Jacob on February 24, 2010, 01:16:02 AM
Why not?
The Navy's preperation for the arrival of women was ill-thought-out, the women's berthing spaces were about 100 times better than the men's, and the ship's leadership was unprepared to deal effectively with the sexual harassment that was inevitable. After two officers got fired at the job, I was transferred over to the job of First Lieutenant (thus becoming responsible for about 100 of the 160 women on board) and, while I loved the job and thought the women were generally great under pressure, the lesbian witch hunts on that ship (and the absurdity of the subsequent courts-martial, in which six of my sailors appeared as defendants) made it a horror story.
I'd have to think that the initial steps to integrating men and women were very difficult, and that now having dealt with the integration for a while, resolving issues, getting accustomed to it all, it's not much of a problem anymore?
Quote from: KRonn on February 24, 2010, 09:17:10 AM
I'd have to think that the initial steps to integrating men and women were very difficult, and that now having dealt with the integration for a while, resolving issues, getting accustomed to it all, it's not much of a problem anymore?
It wasn't so much that it was hard that was annoying, it was the fact that there were so many Navy people free to (and even encouraged to) make it harder. The Navy Incompetent Service was agog to investigate vague rumors of lesbianism (they had six agents working full-time on that case), while we had sailors stabbed in their sleep because they reported drug sales and NIS didn't care (zero agents assigned to even investigate).
Quote from: grumbler on February 24, 2010, 07:23:43 AM
Quote from: Jacob on February 24, 2010, 01:16:02 AM
Why not?
The Navy's preperation for the arrival of women was ill-thought-out, the women's berthing spaces were about 100 times better than the men's, and the ship's leadership was unprepared to deal effectively with the sexual harassment that was inevitable. After two officers got fired at the job, I was transferred over to the job of First Lieutenant (thus becoming responsible for about 100 of the 160 women on board) and, while I loved the job and thought the women were generally great under pressure, the lesbian witch hunts on that ship (and the absurdity of the subsequent courts-martial, in which six of my sailors appeared as defendants) made it a horror story.
Lesbian witches hunted down the sailors? That is a horror story. Tell it.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 24, 2010, 12:09:30 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 24, 2010, 07:23:43 AM
Quote from: Jacob on February 24, 2010, 01:16:02 AM
Why not?
The Navy's preperation for the arrival of women was ill-thought-out, the women's berthing spaces were about 100 times better than the men's, and the ship's leadership was unprepared to deal effectively with the sexual harassment that was inevitable. After two officers got fired at the job, I was transferred over to the job of First Lieutenant (thus becoming responsible for about 100 of the 160 women on board) and, while I loved the job and thought the women were generally great under pressure, the lesbian witch hunts on that ship (and the absurdity of the subsequent courts-martial, in which six of my sailors appeared as defendants) made it a horror story.
Lesbian witches hunted down the sailors? That is a horror story. Tell it.
With pictures.
Quote from: grumbler on February 24, 2010, 07:23:43 AMthe women's berthing spaces were about 100 times better than the men's
Well, duh, they have the plumbing and equipment for it in their abodmens.
Quote from: sbr on February 24, 2010, 12:15:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 24, 2010, 12:09:30 PM
Lesbian witches hunted down the sailors? That is a horror story. Tell it.
With pictures.
Okay, here it is.
If a fireman with a giant, bristled penis were chasing me, I'd run too. Poor lesbians.
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on February 24, 2010, 01:50:43 PM
If a fireman with a giant, bristled penis were chasing me, I'd run too. Poor lesbians.
:(
Quote from: Grinning_Colossus on February 24, 2010, 01:50:43 PM
If a fireman with a giant, bristled penis were chasing me, I'd run too. Poor lesbians.
What kinds of penises do you prefer?
I think Grumbler's memories might be a bit blurry.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 24, 2010, 03:42:28 PM
I think Grumbler's memories might be a bit blurry.
This has nothing to do with my memory. People wanted a story told in pictures of lesbian witches hunting sailors. I gave it my best shot. What is blurry is my ability to create pictures. If people cannot see the story inherent in the picture, they can draw their own.
Well something is blurry. I figured it was either your memories or your drawing ability. I wanted to be nice and not attack your drawing ability.
Quote from: grumbler on February 24, 2010, 10:16:14 AMIt wasn't so much that it was hard that was annoying, it was the fact that there were so many Navy people free to (and even encouraged to) make it harder. The Navy Incompetent Service was agog to investigate vague rumors of lesbianism (they had six agents working full-time on that case), while we had sailors stabbed in their sleep because they reported drug sales and NIS didn't care (zero agents assigned to even investigate).
That sounds pretty fucking stupid. And annoying.
Quote from: Jacob on February 24, 2010, 04:43:19 PM
That sounds pretty fucking stupid. And annoying.
Well, which would you rather investigate, lesbians or druggies?
Quote from: Maximus on February 24, 2010, 05:34:58 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 24, 2010, 04:43:19 PM
That sounds pretty fucking stupid. And annoying.
Well, which would you rather investigate, lesbians or druggies?
An excellent point.
Quote from: Jacob on February 24, 2010, 04:43:19 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 24, 2010, 10:16:14 AMIt wasn't so much that it was hard that was annoying, it was the fact that there were so many Navy people free to (and even encouraged to) make it harder. The Navy Incompetent Service was agog to investigate vague rumors of lesbianism (they had six agents working full-time on that case), while we had sailors stabbed in their sleep because they reported drug sales and NIS didn't care (zero agents assigned to even investigate).
That sounds pretty fucking stupid. And annoying.
It was fucking disgraceful. I was lucky no one interviewed me for the book - I was so mad I would have done myself a disservice.
Quote from: Maximus on February 24, 2010, 05:34:58 PM
Quote from: Jacob on February 24, 2010, 04:43:19 PM
That sounds pretty fucking stupid. And annoying.
Well, which would you rather investigate, lesbians or druggies?
Indeed. The Navy Incompetent Service loved investigating homosexuality of all kinds. They didn't need anything like real evidence to get "convictions" and so justify the unjustifiable existence. That there is a hit TV show about them only added to my amusement (the one about the JAGs was even funnier, to people who know JAGs, but in a different way).
Jethro Gibbs would have run it different. By massively violating everybody rights and solving the crime in 58 minutes.