Languish.org

QuoteUS poised to seize Afghan town as Taliban dig in
By ALFRED de MONTESQUIOU and ROBERT H. REID, Associated Press


NEAR MARJAH, Afghanistan – U.S. and Afghan forces pushed Tuesday to the edge of the southern Afghan town of Marjah, poised to seize the major Taliban supply and drug-smuggling stronghold in hopes of building public support by providing aid and services once the insurgents are gone.

Instead of keeping the offensive secret, Americans have been talking about it for weeks, expecting the Taliban would flee. But the militants appear to be digging in, apparently believing that even a losing fight would rally supporters and sabotage U.S. plans if the battle proves destructive.

No date for the main attack has been announced but all signs indicate it will come soon. It will be the first major offensive since President Barack Obama announced last December that he was sending 30,000 reinforcements to Afghanistan, and will serve as a significant test of the new U.S. strategy for turning back the Taliban.

About 400 U.S. troops from the Army's 5th Stryker Brigade and about 250 Afghan soldiers moved into positions northeast of Marjah before dawn Tuesday as U.S. Marines pushed to the outskirts of the town.

Automatic rifle fire rattled in the distance as the Marines dug in for the night with temperatures below freezing. The occasional thud of mortar shells and the sharp blast of rocket-propelled grenades fired by the Taliban pierced the air.

"They're trying to bait us, don't get sucked in," yelled a Marine sergeant, warning his troops not to venture closer to the town. In the distance, Marines could see farmers and nomads gathering their livestock at sunset, seemingly indifferent to the firing.

The U.S. goal is to take control quickly of the farming community, located in a vast, irrigated swath of land in Helmand province 380 miles southwest of Kabul. That would enable the Afghan government to re-establish a presence, bringing security, electricity, clean water and other public services to the estimated 80,000 inhabitants.

Over time, American commanders believe such services will undermine the appeal of the Taliban among their fellow Pashtuns, the largest ethnic group in the country and the base of the insurgents' support.

"The military operation is phase one," Helmand Gov. Gulab Mangal told reporters Tuesday in Kabul. "In addition to that, we will have development in place, justice, good governance, bringing job opportunities to the people."

Marjah will serve as the first trial for the new strategy implemented last year by the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, Gen. Stanley McChrystal. He maintains that success in the eight-year conflict cannot be achieved by killing Taliban fighters, but rather by protecting civilians and winning over their support.

Many Afghan Pashtuns are believed to have turned to the Taliban, who were driven from power in the U.S.-led invasion of 2001, because of disgust over the ineffectual and corrupt government of President Hamid Karzai.

"The success of the operation will not be in the military phase," NATO's civilian chief in Afghanistan, Mark Sedwill, told reporters Tuesday. "It will be over the next weeks and months as the people ... feel the benefits of better governance, of economic opportunities and of operating under the legitimate authorities of Afghanistan."

To accomplish that, NATO needs to take the town without causing significant damage or civilian casualties. That would risk a public backlash among residents, many of whose sons and brothers are probably among the estimated 400 to 1,000 Taliban defenders. U.S. aircraft have been dropping leaflets over the town, urging militants not to resist and warning civilians to remain indoors.

Provincial officials believe about 164 families — or about 980 people — have left the town in recent weeks, although the real figure could be higher because many of them moved in with relatives and never registered with authorities.

Residents contacted by telephone in Marjah said the Taliban were preventing civilians from leaving, warning them they have placed bombs along the roads to stop the American attack. The militants may believe the Americans will restrain their fire if they know civilians are at risk.

Mohammad Hakim said he waited until the last minute to leave Marjah with his wife, nine sons, four daughters and grandchildren because he was worried about abandoning his cotton fields in a village on the edge of town. He decided to leave Tuesday, but Taliban fighters turned him back because they said the road was mined.

"All of the people are very scared," Hakim said by telephone. "Our village is like a ghost town. The people are staying in their homes."

Sedwill said NATO hopes that when Marjah has fallen, many Taliban militants could be persuaded to join a government-promoted reintegration process.

"The message to them is accept it," he said. "The message to the people of the area is, of course, keep your heads down, stay inside when the operation is going ahead."

Mangal, the governor, said authorities believe some local Taliban are ready to renounce al-Qaida and give the government a chance.

"I'm confident that there are a number of Taliban members who will reconcile with us and who will be under the sovereignty of the Afghan government," he said.

Ali Ahmad Jalali, a former Afghan interior minister who lectures at the National Defense University in Washington, said the U.S. had little choice but to publicize the offensive so civilians could leave and minimize casualties. He said it would have been impossible to achieve complete surprise because "an operation of this scale cannot be kept secret."

But Jalali added that publicizing the operation may have encouraged hard-core Taliban to stand and fight to show their supporters and the international community that they will not be easily swayed by promises of amnesty and reintegration.

"Normally the Taliban would leave. They would not normally decisively engage in this kind of pitched battle. They would leave and come back because they have the time to come back," Jalali told The Associated Press.

"If there's stiff resistance in Marjah, this could increase the recruiting power of the Taliban or at least retain what they have in that area," he said. "It's become the symbol of Taliban resistance. So I would suspect it's possible there would be stiff rearguard resistance. If it becomes bloody, it would affect opinion in Europe and the U.S."

Jalali also said that success would depend on whether the Afghan government can make good on its promise of services once the battle is over.

"If the coalition can stabilize Marjah, rebuild it and install good governance, that can be an example for other places," he said. "If not, it would be another problem."

Echoing this theory, McChrystal told reporters at a defense conference in Turkey last weekend that it was necessary to tell Afghans that the attack on Marjah was coming so they would know "that when the government re-establishes security, they'll have choices."


Reid reported from Kabul. Associated Press Writers Christopher Torchia in Helmand province, Noor Khan in Kandahar and Tini Tran, Kim Gamel and Amir Shah in Kabul also contributed to this report.

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U.S. Marines from the 2nd MEB, 3rd Battalion, 6th Marines stop to make camp outside of Marjah in Afghanistan's Helmand province Tuesday, Feb. 9, 2010.
(AP Photo/David Guttenfelder)

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A British soldier from 11th Light Brigade tests urine samples collected from Afghan police recruits for drugs in Lashkar Gah police training centre February 9, 2010. Out of 25 samples collected, three tested positive for amphetamines and opiates while 15 tested positive for hashish, a British officer said. Those who had failed the test for hashish were forced to stand up and be reprimanded in front of their class of 300 recruits at a parade. One recruit was kicked out of the force for being positive to opiate and amphetamine test.
REUTERS/Baris Atayman

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U.S. Marine Brigadier General Larry Nicholson speaks to U.S. Marines from the 2nd MEB, 3rd Battalion, 6th Marines at Belleau Wood outpost outside Marjah in Afghanistan's Helmand province Tuesday, February 9, 2010.
(AP Photo/David Guttenfelder)


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In this Jan. 18, 2010 photo, MCpl. Steve Malenfant, center, from Calgary, Alberta of the Canadian Army Reservists attached to Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry out of Shilo, Manitoba is seen during an information gathering patrol in Kandahar City, southern Afghanistan. If the push to electrify Kandahar City succeeds, the potential payoff is great. It would mean lights in the streets at night, access to news broadcasts and the opportunity to grow Kandahar into a manufacturing hub that can compete with neighboring Pakistan.
(AP Photo/Kirsty Wigglesworth)

QuotePrincess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry

Sounds fabulous.

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File photo of German Bundeswehr army soldiers of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) instructing Afghan National police men during their drill in the German army camp in Feyzabad, north of Kabul, September 21, 2008. German Chancellor Angela Merkel's cabinet approved the deployment of a maximum of 850 additional German troops to Afghanistan February 9, 2010.
REUTERS/Fabrizio Bensch/Files

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File photo of German Bundeswehr army soldiers from the 263rd paratrooper unit of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) taking cover as they return fire during a firefight with insurgents during a mine sweeping operation in Chahar Dara on the outskirts of Kunduz,
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US Marines carry their equipment during a sandstorm in Helmand province. NATO commanders have urged the Taliban to surrender as troops dug in for a major assault on a key insurgent stronghold in southern Afghanistan, sending thousands of residents fleeing.
(AFP/Patrick Baz)

Quote from: Syt on February 10, 2010, 01:36:12 AM

QuotePrincess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry

Sounds fabulous.

That's what you get when you allow homosexuals to serve openly in the military. Saxby Chambliss was right. :(

Quote from: Martinus on February 10, 2010, 02:14:10 AM
Saxby Chambliss

No matter how many times I vote against him, he lives on...

Quote from: Syt on February 10, 2010, 01:36:12 AM

QuotePrincess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry

Sounds fabulous.

The PPCLI are one of Canada's most famous, and put upon, units.  :thumbsup:

Good luck to the troops. And as the article, or other articles point out, the aftermath of securing the area, revitalizing and bringing in government services to give people better choices away from the Taliban will be vital to long term success.

Quote from: Barrister on February 10, 2010, 03:29:58 AM

Quote from: Syt on February 10, 2010, 01:36:12 AM

QuotePrincess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry

Sounds fabulous.

The PPCLI are one of Canada's most famous, and put upon, units.  :thumbsup:

:)

Canada should have kept its Airborne. And used the Van Doos as cannon fodder.

Quote from: Barrister on February 10, 2010, 03:29:58 AM

Quote from: Syt on February 10, 2010, 01:36:12 AM

QuotePrincess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry

Sounds fabulous.

The PPCLI are one of Canada's most famous, and put upon, units.  :thumbsup:

Yet, it is still fucking Bullshit that they are before the Vandoo's in order of preference.

Its weird stuff really, what strikes me as strange is these attacks are very public yet they're still giving them code names.

Hopefully the bad guys don't read this.

Quote from: Grey Fox on February 10, 2010, 11:15:30 AMYet, it is still fucking Bullshit that they are before the Vandoo's in order of preference.

Why do you think that?

Quote from: Razgovory on February 10, 2010, 01:21:33 PM
Hopefully the bad guys don't read this.

:D


But then... according to the bad guys, we're the bad guys!    :ph34r:

Quote from: Jacob on February 10, 2010, 02:21:32 PM

Quote from: Grey Fox on February 10, 2010, 11:15:30 AMYet, it is still fucking Bullshit that they are before the Vandoo's in order of preference.

Why do you think that?

Because the Vandoo has Battalions older then the Patricia's. Sure, in it's current from Patricia is 2 month older then the 22e but the 22e sports Battallions from the 1860s.

Plus regular Quebecism.

Won't the Taliban just come back after? Isn't that their shtick? Go to ground and just walk back in after the Gubbermint's gone off to some other brush fire?

Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on February 10, 2010, 03:16:54 PM
Won't the Taliban just come back after? Isn't that their shtick? Go to ground and just walk back in after the Gubbermint's gone off to some other brush fire?

The intent, as I understand it, is that after kicking out the Taliban, to strongly establish a stable government and other assistance long term. That longer term idea is the key, to give the locals a better way of life and alternatives to the Taliban. This region/city is an important area to do this in, to try and embark on this long term strategy, and deny the Taliban. Then to use this similar model elsewhere.

QuoteMarines test Taliban defenses before Afghan attack
By ALFRED de MONTESQUIOU and CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA, Associated Press


NEAR MARJAH, Afghanistan – U.S. Marines fired smoke rounds Wednesday and armored vehicles maneuvered close to Taliban positions to test insurgent defenses ahead of an anticipated attack on the biggest militant-controlled town in southern Afghanistan.

A NATO spokesman in Brussels called on Taliban militants holding Marjah to surrender. But a Taliban spokesman boasted that the militants were prepared to "sacrifice their lives" to defend the town against the biggest NATO-Afghan offensive of the eight-year war.

The date for the main attack by thousands of Marines and Afghan soldiers has not been announced for security reasons. However, preparations have accelerated in recent days, and it appeared the assault would come soon.

U.S. mortar crews fired two dozen smoke rounds Wednesday at Taliban positions on the outskirts of the farming community, a center of the opium poppy trade about 380 miles (610 kilometers) southwest of Kabul in Helmand province. Marine armored vehicles also drove closer to Taliban positions. Both moves are designed to lure the militants into shooting back and thus reveal their positions. The Marines did draw small arms fire but suffered no casualties.

"Deception is pretty important because it allows us to test the enemy's resistance," said Lt. Col. Brian Christmas, the commander of 3rd Battalion, 6th Marines Regiment. "There's a strategy to all this show of muscle."

The U.S. goal is to quickly retake control of Marjah to enable the Afghan government to re-establish a presence. Plans call for civilian workers move quickly to restore electricity, clean water and other public services in hopes of weaning the inhabitants away from the Taliban.

Civilians could be seen fleeing their mud brick farming compounds on the outskirts of Marjah as soon as the American and Afghan forces appeared, though vast numbers do not seem to be leaving. The moves did not draw much of a response from the fighters, who appeared to be waiting behind defensive lines for the Marines to come closer to the town.

To the north, a joint U.S.-Afghan force, led by the U.S. Army's 5th Stryker Brigade, pushed into the Badula Qulp region of Helmand province to restrict Taliban movement in support the Marjah offensive.

But bombs planted along a canal road slowed progress of a convoy Wednesday, damaging two mine-clearing vehicles and delaying the Stryker infantry carriers and Afghan vehicles from advancing for hours. There were no casualties.

"It's a little slower than I had hoped," said Lt. Col. Burton Shields, commanding officer of the 4th Battalion, 23rd Infantry Regiment.

Shields said the joint force was facing "harassing attacks" by groups of seven to nine insurgents.

"They're trying to buy time to move their leaders out of the area," he said.

U.S. officers estimate between 400 and 1,000 Taliban and up to 150 foreign fighters are holding Marjah, which is believed to have a population of about 80,000. It's unclear how many of them will defend the town to the end and how many will give up once the main assault begins.

In Brussels, a NATO spokesman James Appathurai said the Taliban garrison in Marjah had the options of surrendering, leaving or fighting, adding they "are well advised to take up options one or two."

"The area which is the focus of this operation has been known for years as an insurgent stronghold. It is actively defended and will require a large military operation to clear," he said.

Marjah is key to Taliban control of vast areas of Helmand province, which borders Pakistan and is major center for Afghanistan's illicit poppy cultivation, which NATO believes helps finance the insurgency.

Officials said Afghan soldiers and police would join the operation in greater numbers than in any previous one. Appathurai said the offensive was designed to show that the Afghan government can establish its authority anywhere in the country and "will establish a better life to the people who are there."

But Taliban spokesman Qari Yousef Ahmadi scoffed at NATO threats, saying American and Afghan forces would face a hard fight to take Marjah.

"The Taliban are ready to fight, to do jihad, to sacrifice their lives. American forces cannot scare the Taliban with big tanks and big warplanes," Ahmadi told The Associated Press by telephone. "American forces are here in Afghanistan just to create problems for Afghan people. This operation is to create problems for the villagers in winter weather."

So far, there are few signs of a major exodus of civilians from Marjah, although U.S. aircraft have been dropping leaflets in the town for days warning of the offensive. Some residents contacted by telephone said the Taliban were preventing people from leaving, telling them it was unsafe because the roads had been mined.

Helmand provincial spokesman Daoud Ahmadi said about 300 families — or an estimated 1,800 people — have already moved out of Marjah in recent weeks to the capital of Lashkar Gah, about 20 miles (30 kilometers) northeast.

Most moved in with relatives but about 60 families are sheltering in a school, where the government provides them with tents, blankets, food and other items. Ahmadi said preparations have been made to receive more refugees if necessary.


Associated Press Writers Noor Khan in Kandahar, Rahim Faiez and Tini Tran in Kabul and Slobodan Lekic in Brussels contributed to this report.

Quote from: Syt on February 10, 2010, 01:36:12 AM

QuotePrincess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry

Sounds fabulous.

One more snide comment out of you about the Princess Patricia's and I will hound you until you leave leave languish, then I will hound you until you leave the internet and then I will hound you until....

Well you get the picture. 

Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on February 10, 2010, 03:16:54 PM
Won't the Taliban just come back after? Isn't that their shtick? Go to ground and just walk back in after the Gubbermint's gone off to some other brush fire?

Sounds like both sides are itching for a fight.

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U.S. Marines from the 2nd MEB, 3rd Battalion, 6th Marines dig their sleeping holes outside of Marjah in Afghanistan's Helmand province Tuesday, February 9, 2010.
(AP Photo/David Guttenfelder)


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A US Marine dog handler waits with his dog at a company operation base (COB) in Toor Ghar in the Helmand province on February 8. US Marines have stepped up preparations for a major assault on a key Taliban bastion in southern Afghanistan hailed by officers as the biggest offensive of the eight-year war.
(AFP/Patrick Baz)

Quote from: crazy canuck on February 10, 2010, 03:44:41 PM

Quote from: Syt on February 10, 2010, 01:36:12 AM

QuotePrincess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry

Sounds fabulous.

One more snide comment out of you about the Princess Patricia's and I will hound you until you leave leave languish, then I will hound you until you leave the internet and then I will hound you until....

Well you get the picture.

You will chase me around the moons of Nibia, around the Antares Malstrom and around perdition's flames before you give me up?

Quote from: Syt on February 10, 2010, 05:02:16 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on February 10, 2010, 03:44:41 PM

Quote from: Syt on February 10, 2010, 01:36:12 AM

QuotePrincess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry

Sounds fabulous.

One more snide comment out of you about the Princess Patricia's and I will hound you until you leave leave languish, then I will hound you until you leave the internet and then I will hound you until....

Well you get the picture.

You will chase me around the moons of Nibia, around the Antares Malstrom and around perdition's flames before you give me up?

Part of that sounds like KHAAAAAAAAAAAAN(!!!!!), but I don't recognise all of it. Where's that from?

Quote from: Agelastus on February 10, 2010, 05:20:35 PM

Quote from: Syt on February 10, 2010, 05:02:16 PM


You will chase me around the moons of Nibia, around the Antares Malstrom and around perdition's flames before you give me up?

Part of that sounds like KHAAAAAAAAAAAAN(!!!!!), but I don't recognise all of it. Where's that from?

You should have more faith in your abilities aggie.

Quote from: katmai on February 10, 2010, 05:23:38 PM

Quote from: Agelastus on February 10, 2010, 05:20:35 PM

Quote from: Syt on February 10, 2010, 05:02:16 PM


You will chase me around the moons of Nibia, around the Antares Malstrom and around perdition's flames before you give me up?

Part of that sounds like KHAAAAAAAAAAAAN(!!!!!), but I don't recognise all of it. Where's that from?

You should have more faith in your abilities aggie.

You're right, I should. :blush:

Just checked the line on Memory Alpha, and Syt's almost word perfect.

I will not sacrifice the bowl system. We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. Boise State invade our bowls and we fall back. Tim bandwagons every 12-0 team and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! And *I* will make them pay for what they've done.

QuoteUS troops close Taliban escape route before attack
By ALFRED de MONTESQUIOU and CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA, Associated Press


NEAR MARJAH, Afghanistan – U.S. and Afghan soldiers linked up with Marines on the outskirts of the Taliban stronghold of Marjah on Thursday, sealing off escape routes and setting the stage for what is being described as the biggest offensive of the nine-year war.

Taliban defenders repeatedly fired rockets and mortars at units poised in foxholes along the edge of the town, apparently trying to lure NATO forces into skirmishes before the big attack.

"They're trying to draw us in," said Capt. Joshua Winfrey, 30, of Tulsa, Okla., commander of Lima Company, 3rd Battalion, 6th Marines.

Up to 1,000 militants are believed holed up in Marjah, a key Taliban logistics base and center of the lucrative opium poppy trade. But the biggest threats are likely to be the land mines and bombs hidden in the roads and fields of the farming community, 380 miles (610 kilometers) southwest of Kabul.

The precise date for the attack has been kept secret. U.S. officials have signaled for weeks they planned to seize Marjah, a town of about 80,000 people in Helmand province and the biggest community in southern Afghanistan under Taliban control.

NATO officials say the goal is to seize the town quickly and re-establish Afghan government authority, bringing public services in hopes of winning support of the townspeople once the Taliban are gone. Hundreds of Afghan soldiers were to join U.S. Marines in the attack to emphasize the Afghan role in the operation.

A Taliban spokesman dismissed the significance of Marjah, saying the NATO operation was "more propaganda than military necessity."

Nevertheless, the spokesman, Mohammed Yusuf, said in a dialogue on the Taliban Web site that the insurgents would strike the attackers with explosives and hit-and-run tactics, according to a summary by the SITE Intelligence Group, which monitors militant Internet traffic.

In preparation for the offensive, a U.S.-Afghan force led by the U.S. Army's 5th Stryker Brigade moved south from Lashkar Gah and linked up Thursday with Marines on the northern edge of Marjah, closing off a main Taliban escape route. Marines and Army soldiers fired colored smoke grenades to show each other that they were friendly forces.

The Army's advance was slowed as U.S. and Afghan soldiers cleared the thicket of mines and bombs hidden in canals and along the roads and fought off harassment attacks along the way by small bands of insurgents. Two U.S. attack helicopters fired Hellfire missiles at a compound near Marjah from where insurgents had been firing at the advancing Americans.

Marines along the edge of the town exchanged fire with insurgents. There were no reports of casualties.

"I am not surprised at all that this is taking place," said the battalion commander, Lt. Col. Brian Christmas. "We are touching their trigger-line," referring to the outer rim of the Taliban defenses.

A far greater obstacle lies in the hundreds, if not thousands, of mines, makeshift bombs and booby traps which the Taliban are believed to have planted around Marjah.

"This may be the largest IED threat and largest minefield that NATO has ever faced," said Brig. Gen. Larry Nicholson, commander of Marines in southern Afghanistan.

A British soldier was killed in a bombing Thursday in Helmand province, the Ministry of Defense announced in London. It was unclear whether the soldier was part of the Marjah operation.

In eastern Afghanistan, the spokesman for Paktia province, Roullah Samoun, said five Americans were wounded when a suicide attacker wearing a border police uniform blew himself up at a U.S. base near the Pakistan border. A U.S. statement said "several" U.S. service members were injured in an explosion at a joint U.S.-Afghan outpost in Paktia, but gave no further details.

To combat the mines around Marjah, Marines planned to use their new 72-ton Assault Breacher Vehicles, which use metal blows to scoop up hidden bombs or fire rockets to detonate them at a safe distance.

Once the main attack begins, U.S. commanders are eager to avoid civilian casualties, hoping instead to win over support of the Pashtun townspeople, who are from the same ethnic group as the majority of the Taliban. American officers have been instructing troops to hold their fire unless they are sure they are shooting at insurgents and not innocent villagers.

On Thursday, Afghanistan's interior minister, Hanif Atmar, met with a group of tribal elders explaining the goals of the operation and asking for their support.

"This operation is designed to open the way for those Afghans who want to join the peace process and to use the military power against those foreign terrorists who are hiding here," Atmar told the elders during a meeting in Lashkar Gah, the Helmand provincial capital about 20 miles northeast of Marjah.

The elders told Atmar that their support depended on how the operation was carried out and whether a large number of civilians were killed or injured in the fighting.

One elder, Mohebullah Torpatkai, said that if the operation improved the lives of civilians, "we the people of Marjah will fully support it."

As the Marines waited for battle, they received their first mail delivery since arriving in the Marjah area.

Some Marines burned their letters after reading them, either because they didn't want to carry any extra weight or have the letters fall into the wrong hands if they lost them in the fighting.

Others held on to them.

"I'm not burning any of my pictures or letters," said Cpl. Christian Martir, 23, from Northridge, Calif., as he stared at photos from his girlfriend. "She also sent a little letter. I'm keeping all of it," he said.

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U.S. soldiers of the 4th Battalion, 23th Infantry Regiment, 5th Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division, work on a Stryker armored vehicle after it slid on a narrow road west of Lashkar Gah in Helmand province, southern Afghanistan, Thursday, Feb. 11, 2010. This unit is operating in support of a planned U.S. Marine offensive against the Taliban in Marjah area.
(AP Photo/Pier Paolo Cito)

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U.S. Marines of the 3rd Battalion, 6th Marine Regiment receive boxes of mail from home at a base camp outside Marjah in Afghanistan's Helmand province on Thursday Feb. 11, 2010.
(AP Photo/David Guttenfelder)

Quote from: Razgovory on February 10, 2010, 01:21:33 PM
Hopefully the bad guys don't read this.

We want them to know about this, they don't need to know operational details, but this has been some cracking PR which I think serves what we're trying to do there.

Diane Sawyer was selling it as The Turning Point, which seems awfully premature.  I can't help but be reminded of big search and destroy operations in Vietnam.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 12, 2010, 09:44:54 PM
I can't help but be reminded of big search and destroy operations in Vietnam.

The goal isn't to search and destroy though.

Nice photos citizen k, I like the inclusion of them with the articles

QuoteUS Marines, Afghan troops attack Taliban-held town
By ALFRED de MONTESQUIOU and CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA, Associated Press


NEAR MARJAH, Afghanistan – Helicopter-borne U.S. Marines and Afghan troops swooped down on the Taliban-held town of Marjah before dawn Saturday, launching a long-expected attack to re-establish government control and undermine support for militants in their southern heartland.

The assault on Marjah is the biggest offensive since the 2001 U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan and will serve as a major test of a new NATO strategy focusing on protecting civilians. The attack is also the first major combat operation since President Barack Obama ordered 30,000 U.S. reinforcements here in December to try to turn the tide of the war .

To the north of Marjah, British, American and Canadian forces struck elsewhere in the Nad Ali district in a push to break Taliban power in Helmand province, one of the major battlefields of the war.

Marine commanders say they expect between 400 to 1,000 insurgents — including more than 100 foreign fighters — to be holed up in Marjah, a town of 80,000 people in Helmand province. Marjah is the biggest southern town under Taliban control and the linchpin of the militants' logistical and opium-smuggling network.

"The first wave of choppers has landed inside Marjah. The operation has begun," said Capt. Joshua Winfrey, commander of Lima Company, 3rd Battalion, 6th Marines, which was at the forefront of the attack.

Several hundred U.S. Marines and some Afghan troops were in the first wave, flying over minefields the militants are believed to have planted around the town, 360 miles (610 kilometers) southwest of Kabul.

The operation, codenamed "Moshtarak," or Together, was described as the biggest joint operation of the Afghan war. Maj. Gen. Nick Carter, commander of NATO forces in southern Afghanistan, says 15,000 troops were involved, including some 7,500 troops fighting in Marjah.

The helicopter assault was preceded by illumination flares fired over the town about 2 a.m. In the pitch darkness of a moonless night, the roar of helicopters could be heard overhead, flying in assault troops from multiple locations.

The white flash of Hellfire and Tow missiles could be seen exploding over the town as flares illuminated the darkness to help assault troops spot targets.

Once the town is secured, NATO hopes to rush in aid and restore public services in a bid to win support among the estimated 125,000 people who live in Marjah and surrounding villages. The Afghans' ability to restore those services is crucial to the success of the operation and to prevent the Taliban from returning.

Tribal elders have pleaded for NATO to finish the operation quickly and spare civilians — an appeal that offers some hope the townspeople will cooperate with Afghan and international forces once the Taliban are gone.

At the Pentagon, a senior U.S. official said Afghan President Hamid Karzai had signed off on the attack.

Another defense official said Karzai was informed of planning for the operation well in advance. The official said it marked a first in terms of both sharing information prior to the attack and planning collaboration with the Afghan government.

Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity because there were not authorized to speak publicly.

The second official said the number of Afghan security forces in the district have roughly doubled since Obama's first infusion of some 10,000 Marines in southern Afghanistan last year.

The Marjah offensive involves close combat in extremely difficult terrain, that official said. A close grid of wide canals dug by the United States as an aid project decades ago make the territory a particularly rich agricultural prize but complicate the advance of U.S. forces.

On the eve of the attack, cars and trucks jammed the main road out of Marjah on Friday as hundreds of civilians defied militant orders and fled the area. For weeks, U.S. commanders had signaled their intention to attack Marjah in hopes that civilians would seek shelter.

Residents told The Associated Press by telephone this week that Taliban fighters were preventing them from leaving, warning the roads were planted with land mines to slow the NATO advance.

Still, many people fled anyway for the provincial capital of Lashkar Gah, 20 miles (30 kilometers) to the northeast. They told journalists they had to leave quickly and secretly to avoid recrimination from Taliban commanders.

Some said they slipped out of town when Taliban commanders weren't watching.

"We were not allowed to come here. We haven't brought any of our belongings. We just tried to get ourselves out," said Bibi Gul, an elderly woman in a black headscarf who arrived in nearby Lashkar Gah with three of her sons. She left three more sons behind in Marjah.

Police searched vehicles for any signs of militants, in one case prodding bales of cotton with a metal rod in search of hidden weapons.

"They don't allow families to leave," Marjah resident Qari Mohammad Nabi said of the Taliban. "The families can only leave the village when they are not seen leaving."

Provincial spokesman Daoud Ahmadi said about 450 families — an estimated 2,700 people — had already sought refuge in Lashkar Gah. Most moved in with relatives but more than 100 were being sheltered by the government, he said.

Ahmadi said the local government was prepared to shelter 7,000 families in nearby towns, providing them with food, blankets and dishes.

In advance of the attack, Afghan officials urged community leaders in Marjah to use their influence to persuade the Taliban to lay down their weapons and avoid a bloodbath. In return, the officials promised to improve the lives of the people there.

During a meeting Thursday, Helmand's governor, Gulab Mangal, urged tribal elders from the town to "use any avenue you have, direct or indirect, to tell the Taliban who don't want to fight, that they can join with us," according to the chief of Helmand's provincial council, Mohammad Anwar Khan.

For their part, the elders begged for limited use of airstrikes because of the risk of civilian deaths, Khan said Friday.

Another of the elders at the meeting, Mohammad Karim Khan, said he would not dare approach the Taliban and tell them to give up their guns to the government.

"We can't talk to the Taliban. We are farmers and poor people and we are not involved in these things like the politicians are," said Khan, who is not related to the provincial council chief.

Instead, a group of 34 elders sent a letter Friday to the provincial government urging NATO forces to finish the operation in Marjah quickly and avoid harming civilians. Abdul Hai Agha, an elder from Marjah, said local people were frightened and feared they would not be cared for after the Taliban are gone.

"We said in this letter that if you are doing this operation in Marjah, do it quickly," Agha told the AP by phone from the town.

The fact that the elders did not demand U.S. and Afghan troops call off the operation offered a glimmer of hope the townspeople will cooperate with the pro-government forces — if the Afghan leadership is able to fulfill its promises of a better life without the Taliban.

U.S. officials have long complained that Afghan government corruption and inefficiency have alienated millions of Afghans and paved the way for the revival of the militant group after it was driven from power in the 2001 U.S.-led invasion.

One of the main drafters of the letter to government officials said he and others had been reaching out to local Taliban commanders.

"We have talked to some of the Taliban over the phone and we have told them: 'This is your country. Don't create problems for your fellow Afghans and don't go on a suicide mission,'" said Abdul Rehman Jan, an elder who lives in Lashkar Gah.

However, Jan said most of the Afghan Taliban have already fled the area. Militant commanders from the Middle East or Pakistan have stayed on "and they want to fight," he said.



Associated Press writers Noor Khan in Kandahar, Christopher Torchia outside Marjah, Amir Shah in Kabul, and Anne Gearan and Anne Flaherty in Washington contributed to this report.

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US Marines prepare to fire a mortar round as they battle Taliban militants in Marjah on February 11. US-led troops have dropped leaflets and broadcast radio messages warning Afghans not to shelter the Taliban as they prepared to assault a bastion of the insurgency.                                          (AFP/Patrick Baz)

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U.S. 1st Lt. Daniel Hickok, from Puyallup, WA, 24, smokes his pipe, next to Pfc. Colin Wells from Los Angeles, both of the 4th Battalion, 23rd Infantry Regiment, 5th Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division in an outpost west of Lashkar Gah in Helmand province, southern Afghanistan, Friday, Feb. 12, 2010. This unit is operating in support of a planned U.S. Marine offensive against the Taliban in Marjah area.
(AP Photo/Pier Paolo Cito)

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U.S. Marines board Sea Stallion helicopters en route to an air assault against the Taliban stronghold of Marjah, at a Forward Operating Base, south of Marjah, in Helmand province, southern Afghanistan, in the early hours of Saturday, Feb. 13, 2010.
(AP Photo/Brennan Linsley)


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British soldiers from the First Battalion The Royal Welsh mobilize for Operation Moshtarak at Camp Bastion, Afghanistan, February 13, 2010.
REUTERS/SSgt Will Craig/The British Army


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An Australian soldier takes position during a military operation in southern Afghanistan. For the first time, Afghan soldiers are involved shoulder-to-shoulder with the international troops at the tip of the spear as they bring their fight to insurgents holding sway over the Marjah district of Helmand province.
(AFP/File/Deshakalyan Chowdhury)

Quote from: crazy canuck on February 10, 2010, 03:44:41 PM

Quote from: Syt on February 10, 2010, 01:36:12 AM

QuotePrincess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry

Sounds fabulous.

One more snide comment out of you about the Princess Patricia's and I will hound you until you leave leave languish, then I will hound you until you leave the internet and then I will hound you until....

Well you get the picture.

"Princess Patricia of the Canadian Infantry" sounds only slightly less gay than "Priscilla Queen of the Desert". Deal with it.

Quote from: Sheilbh on February 12, 2010, 09:46:49 PM

Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 12, 2010, 09:44:54 PM
I can't help but be reminded of big search and destroy operations in Vietnam.

The goal isn't to search and destroy though.

It damned well better be.

Maybe its hope and change?

Quote from: Martinus on February 13, 2010, 05:36:45 AM

Quote from: crazy canuck on February 10, 2010, 03:44:41 PM

Quote from: Syt on February 10, 2010, 01:36:12 AM

QuotePrincess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry

Sounds fabulous.

One more snide comment out of you about the Princess Patricia's and I will hound you until you leave leave languish, then I will hound you until you leave the internet and then I will hound you until....

Well you get the picture.

"Princess Patricia of the Canadian Infantry" sounds only slightly less gay than "Priscilla Queen of the Desert". Deal with it.

Good thing their name is Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, and not Princess Patricia of the Canadian Infantry, then.

Quote from: Grey Fox on February 10, 2010, 02:39:51 PM

Quote from: Jacob on February 10, 2010, 02:21:32 PM

Quote from: Grey Fox on February 10, 2010, 11:15:30 AMYet, it is still fucking Bullshit that they are before the Vandoo's in order of preference.

Why do you think that?

Because the Vandoo has Battalions older then the Patricia's. Sure, in it's current from Patricia is 2 month older then the 22e but the 22e sports Battallions from the 1860s.

Plus regular Quebecism.

The oldest? Here are some pictures from the early days

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Edit: Yes, I'm going to hell.

Please don't post that here.

Quote from: Razgovory on February 13, 2010, 02:27:28 PM
Please don't post that here.

Until the next gay soldier thread then.

That was odd.

and totally uncanadian.

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QuoteU.S. Marines from Bravo Company, 1st Battalion, 6th Marines, protect an Afghan man and his child after Taliban fighters opened fire at them in the town of Marjah, in Nad Ali district, Helmand province, February 13, 2010. U.S.-led NATO troops launched a crucial offensive on Saturday against the Taliban's last big stronghold in Afghanistan's most violent province and were quickly thrown into a firefight with the militants.

QuoteBombs slow US advance in Taliban-held Afghan town
By ALFRED de MONTESQUIOU, Associated Press


MARJAH, Afghanistan – Bombs and booby traps slowed the advance of thousands of U.S. Marines and Afghan soldiers moving Saturday through the Taliban-controlled town of Marjah — NATO's most ambitious effort yet to break the militants' grip over their southern heartland.

NATO said it hoped to secure the area in days, set up a local government and rush in development aid in a first test of the new U.S. strategy for turning the tide of the eight-year war. The offensive is the largest since the 2001 U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan.

The Taliban appeared to have scattered in the face of overwhelming force, possibly waiting to regroup and stage attacks later to foil the alliance's plan to stabilize the area and expand Afghan government control in the volatile south.

NATO said two of its soldiers were killed in the first day of the operation — one American and one Briton, according to military officials in their countries. Afghan authorities said at least 20 insurgents were killed.

More than 30 transport helicopters ferried troops into the heart of Marjah before dawn Saturday, while British, Afghan and U.S. troops fanned out across the Nad Ali district to the north of the mudbrick town, long a stronghold of the Taliban.

Maj. Gen. Gordon Messenger told reporters in London that British forces "have successfully secured the area militarily" with only sporadic resistance from Taliban forces. A Taliban spokesman insisted their forces still controlled the town.

In Marjah, Marines and Afghan troops faced little armed resistance. But their advance through the town was impeded by countless land mines, homemade bombs and booby-traps littering the area.

Throughout the day, Marine ordnance teams blew up bombs where they were found, setting off huge explosions that reverberated through the dusty streets.

The bridge over the canal into Marjah from the north was rigged with so many explosives that Marines erected temporary bridges to cross into the town.

"It's just got to be a very slow and deliberate process," said Capt. Joshua Winfrey of Stillwater, Okla., a Marine company commander.

Lt. Col. Brian Christmas, commander of the 3rd Battalion, 6th Marines, said U.S. troops fought gunbattles in at least four areas of the town, including the western suburb of Sistani where India Company faced "some intense fighting."

To the east, the battalion's Kilo Company was inserted into the town by helicopter without meeting resistance but was then "significantly engaged" as the Marines fanned out from the landing zone, Christmas said.

Marine commanders had said they expected between 400 and 1,000 insurgents — including more than 100 foreign fighters — to be holed up in Marjah, a town of 80,000 people which is the linchpin of the militants' logistical and opium-smuggling network in the south.

Shopkeeper Abdul Kader, 44, said seven or eight Taliban fighters, who had been holding the position where the Marines crossed over, had fled in the middle of the night. He said he was angry at the insurgents for having planted bombs and mines all around his neighborhood.

"They left with their motorcycles and their guns. They went deeper into town," he said as Marines and Afghan troops searched a poppy field next to his house. "We can't even walk out of our own houses."

Saturday's ground assault followed several hours after the first wave of helicopters flew troops over the mine fields into the center of town before dawn. Helicopter gunships fired missiles at Taliban tunnels and bunkers while flares illuminated the night sky so pilots could see their landing zones.

The offensive, code-named "Moshtarak," or "Together," was described as the biggest joint operation of the Afghan war, with 15,000 troops involved, including some 7,500 in Marjah itself. The government says Afghan soldiers make up at least half of the offensive's force.

Elsewhere in the south, three U.S. soldiers were killed by a bomb in an attack unrelated to the operation, NATO said.

Once Marjah is secured, NATO hopes to quickly deliver aid and provide public services in a bid to win support among the estimated 125,000 people who live in the town and surrounding villages. The Afghans' ability to restore those services is crucial to the success of the operation and in preventing the Taliban from returning.

Maj. Gen. Nick Carter, the top NATO commander in the south, said coalition forces hope to install an Afghan government presence within the next few days, bringing health care, education, electricity and other public services to win the allegiance of the townspeople.

Teams of international development workers and Afghan officials are ready to enter the area as soon as security permits. A deputy district chief has already been appointed for Marjah and government teams have drawn up maps of where schools, clinics and mosques should be built.

Some officials were more cautious about the speed with which government can be installed.

"I can't yet say how long it will take for this military phase to get to the point where we can bring in the civilian support from the Afghan government. We hope that will happen quickly," NATO's civilian chief, Mark Sedwill, said in Kabul.

Sedwill said a key part of establishing government in Marjah will be a series of meetings with tribal elders to hear their concerns much like two meetings that preceded the offensive.

Tribal elders have pleaded with NATO to finish the operation quickly and spare civilians — an appeal that offers some hope the townspeople will cooperate with Afghan and international forces once the Taliban are gone.

Still, the town's residents have displayed few signs of rushing to welcome the attack force.

"The elders are telling people to stay behind the front doors and keep them bolted," Carter said. "Once people feel more secure and they realize there is government present on the ground, they will come out and tell us where the IEDs are."



Associated Press writers Noor Khan in Kandahar, Rahim Faiez and Heidi Vogt in Kabul, Stephen Braun and Robert Burns in Washington contributed to this report.

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Taliban fighters are airborne in a Black hawk helicopter on a U.S. Army medevac mission, as flight medics attend to two wounded Taliban fighters captured after a firefight, according to the Marines on the ground, over Marjah, Helmand province, southern Afghanistan, Saturday Feb. 13, 2010. Aero-medical crews of Task Force Pegasus are positioned throughout southern Afghanistan.
(AP Photo/Brennan Linsley)

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U.S. Marines from 3rd Battalion, 6th Marine Regiment and Marine engineers make camp for the night in a room at a gas station after entering the town of Marjah in Afghanistan's Helmand province on Saturday Feb. 13, 2010.
(AP Photo/David Guttenfelder)

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U.S. Marines from 3rd Battalion, 6th Marine Regiment carry a bridge to set up across a canal as they enter Marjah in Afghanistan's Helmand province Saturday, Feb. 13, 2010.
(AP Photo/David Guttenfelder)

And the assault has begun.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/afghanistan/article7026348.ece

QuoteTaliban leaders flee as marines hit stronghold
Marie Colvin in Camp Leatherneck, Helmand

American marines landed by helicopter in a pre-dawn assault on the Taliban stronghold of Marjah, seizing two central shopping bazaars and firing rockets at Taliban fighters who attacked from mud-walled compounds.

As the marines secured their first objective, a jumble of buildings at the centre of the farming town, thousands of soldiers moved in on foot.

Harrier jets called in by the marines fired heavy-calibre machineguns at the Taliban. Fighting continued for hours, according to an embedded correspondent. Cobra gunships unleashed Hellfire missiles into bunkers and tunnels.

By nightfall, marines appeared to be in control of the centre of Marjah, home to about 75,000 people. "The Americans are walking by on the street outside my house," a bazaar resident said. "They're carrying large bags and guns but they're not fighting any more." Asked what he thought of their presence, he said: "I have hope for the future."

The offensive was aimed at overwhelming the insurgency's last haven in Helmand province and restoring government control.

Aircraft bombed compounds in southern districts of the town. US marines and Afghan troops swarmed in, searching for foreign fighters after intelligence reports said they had holed up there.

In the north of the city, helicopters landed several hundred marines in narrow alleys amid farm compounds.

At least 20 insurgents were reported killed and 11 were captured. The invading troops confiscated caches of Kalashnikov automatic rifles, heavy machineguns and grenades.

The greatest threat came from the extensive network of mines and booby traps. Assault troops ran into a huge number of improvised explosive devices — homemade bombs — as they tried to cross a canal into the town's northern entrance. Explosions ripped through the air as marines safely detonated bombs.

Marines used portable aluminium bridges to span the irrigation channels. The bridge over the main canal into Marjah from the north was elaborately rigged with explosives so they unfolded larger bridges from heavy-tracked vehicles to allow armoured troop carriers to cross.

Marine engineers, driving special mine-clearing vehicles called breachers, ploughed a path through fields on the town's outskirts. To clear a minefield, they launched rockets and deployed cables of plastic explosives designed to ignite roadside bombs.

Civilians said the Afghan troops were searching homes, a concession to conservative tribal sensitivities. Searches by foreign troops, particularly of homes with women, have infuriated traditional Pashtun residents.

"The troops are going house to house in my street," said Haji Abdul Mukadasa, a 48-year-old father of 13. He said the Afghan troops asked that all the women be put in one room, then searched the house while the "foreigners" waited outside.

He said he knew a young man who had been fighting with the Taliban but went home and took off his black turban when the offensive began. "They searched his house, and he said, 'No, I am not Taliban, this is my wife, this is my father'." Residents said most senior Taliban had fled the city.

Brigadier-General Larry Nicholson, commander of the marines in southern Afghanistan, was focused on avoiding civilian casualties while winning control of the town. He was well aware that to succeed he would have to secure it quickly and remain until Afghan forces and a credible local government could take over.

Even Nicholson's lowest-ranking commanders were carrying bags of cash to use at their discretion to pay for battle damage to houses or mosques or to fund a "quick impact projects" that immediately improve the lives of local people.

"I want to be able to get unemployed young men back to work, give them an alternative to the Taliban and a reason to get up in the morning," Nicholson said.

QuoteHaji Abdul Mukadasa, a 48-year-old father of 13

Ed, take a look at your future. Fucking name-changer.

Quote from: Mr.Penguin on February 13, 2010, 04:46:33 PM
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QuoteU.S. Marines from Bravo Company, 1st Battalion, 6th Marines, protect an Afghan man and his child after Taliban fighters opened fire at them in the town of Marjah, in Nad Ali district, Helmand province, February 13, 2010. U.S.-led NATO troops launched a crucial offensive on Saturday against the Taliban's last big stronghold in Afghanistan's most violent province and were quickly thrown into a firefight with the militants.

Compelling photos.

Quote from: The Brain on February 14, 2010, 03:34:37 AM

QuoteHaji Abdul Mukadasa, a 48-year-old father of 13

Ed, take a look at your future. Fucking name-changer.

Allahu Ackbar

Headline about the operation on a number of Austrian sites:
"12 civilians killed during offensive"
:rolleyes:

They don't want westerners to search the houses with their women in them but Afghan soldiers are far more likely to start raping people.

QuoteUS rockets slam into Afghan home, killing 12
By ALFRED de MONTESQUIOU, Associated Press


MARJAH, Afghanistan – Two U.S. rockets slammed into a home Sunday outside the southern Taliban stronghold of Marjah, killing 12 civilians after Afghanistan's president appealed to NATO to take care in its campaign to seize the town.

Inside Marjah, Marines encountered "death at every corner" in their second day of a massive offensive to capture this bleak mud-brick city filled with booby traps, hardcore Taliban fighters and civilians unsure where to cast their loyalty.

Marines confronted a fierce sandstorm as they ducked in and out of doorways and hid behind bullet-riddled walls to evade sniper fire. To the north, U.S. Army troops fought skirmishes with Taliban fighters, calling in a Cobra attack helicopter against the insurgents.

Insurgents littered the area with booby traps and explosives before the offensive, and the sound of controlled detonations — about three every hour — punctuated the day along with mortars and rocket fire.

"Our children are very scared by the explosions. When will it end?" asked Zaher, a 25-year-old poppy farmer who like many Afghans goes by one name.

The civilian deaths were a blow to NATO and Afghan efforts to win the support of residents in the Marjah area, a major goal of the biggest ground offensive of the eight-year war. Marjah, which had a population of 80,000 before the offensive, is a Taliban logistical center and a base for their lucrative opium trade which finances the insurgency.

The rockets were fired by a High Mobility Artillery Rocket System, or HIMARS, at insurgents who attacked U.S. and Afghan forces, wounding one American and one Afghan, NATO said in a statement. Instead, the projectiles veered 300 yards (meters) off target and blasted a house in the Nad Ali district, which includes Marjah, NATO added.

The top NATO commander in Afghanistan, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, apologized to President Hamid Karzai for "this tragic loss of life" and suspended use of the sophisticated HIMARS system pending "a thorough review of this incident," NATO said.

Before the offensive began Saturday, Karzai pleaded for the Afghan and foreign commanders to be "seriously careful for the safety of civilians."

Karzai's spokesman Waheed Omar said the president "is very upset about what happened" and has been "very seriously conveying his message" of restraint "again and again."

Allied officials have reported two coalition deaths so far — one American and one Briton, who were both killed Saturday. Afghan officials said at least 27 insurgents have been killed in the offensive.

In unrelated incidents in southern Afghanistan, NATO said two service members died Sunday — one from small-arms fire and the other from a road side bomb explosion. The international force did not disclose their nationalities, but the British defense ministry reported that a British soldier died Sunday of wounds suffered in an explosion.

Marines and Afghan forces met only scattered resistance when they swooped down by helicopter on the impoverished farming community before dawn Saturday. A day later, however, Taliban attacks were escalating, with small bands of fighters firing rifles and rocket-propelled grenades at troops moving slowly through the bombs and booby traps hidden in homes, residential compounds and along the rutted streets.

"It seems these guys want to get a bit closer," Lt. Carl Quist said as bullets whizzed overhead.

Brig. Gen. Larry Nicholson, a top Marine commander in the south, predicted it could take 30 days to clear Marjah because of all the hidden explosives.

Marines said they would have preferred a straight-up fight to what they called the "death at every corner" crawl they faced as they made their way through the town.

"Basically, if you hear the boom, it's good. It means you're still alive after the thing goes off," said Lance Corp. Justin Hennes, 22, of Lakeland, Florida.

To bypass heavily mined bridges, Marine engineers erected their own Vietnam-era metal spans over canals that irrigate opium poppy fields.

As Marines pushed deeper into town, gunfire forced them to take cover in buildings and compounds not yet cleared of booby traps. In one compound, a dog trained to detect explosives discovered a massive bomb hidden in a pile of trash.

Some troops complained that the strict rules issued by McChrystal to spare civilians were making their job more difficult and dangerous. Under the rules, troops cannot fire at people unless they commit a hostile act or show hostile intent.

U.S. soldiers operating near Marjah said the Taliban can fire on them, then set aside their weapon and walk freely out of a compound, possibly toward a weapons cache in another location.

A few crafty, determined insurgents can keep a larger force engaged for hours with some degree of impunity.

"The inability to stop people who don't have weapons is the main hindrance right now," said 1st Lt. Gavin McMahon of Brooklyn, N.Y. McMahon. "They know how to use our ROE against us," referring to the Rules of Engagement.

In areas where troops have wrested control from the Taliban, the second phase of the operation is under way — trying to convince civilians that their future lies with the government and not the insurgents.

Several shuras, or meetings with community leaders, have been held in Marjah and the surrounding Nad Ali district with more planned.

In one village, Qari Sahib, Afghan officials met with residents Sunday, promising to provide security, pave a road and build a school and a clinic. In exchange, they urged the villagers to renounce the Taliban and push militants to reintegrate into society. To show good faith, a resident who had been arrested for alleged militant activity was freed.

"This is all to the benefit for you people but we need your cooperation," Deputy Gov. Abdul Sattar Mirzekwal, told more than 100 villagers gathered outside a mosque. "Do not let the Taliban come into your area and disrupt security."

Most villagers at the shura expressed support for the government. Others expressed skepticism, laughing and paying little attention to the officials' promises.

Abdul Wali, a 23-year-old farmer, said he hoped people would give the government a chance.

"I'm afraid that if they do not join with the government, there will be fights, clashes and gunbattles in our village," he said. "I hope the government will fulfill all the promises it is making."



Associated Press writers Noor Khan in Kandahar, Rahim Faiez in Helmand province, and Deb Riechmann, Heidi Vogt and Tini Tran in Kabul contributed to this report.

QuoteThe mistaken killing of 12 Afghan civilians prompts U.S. apology

By SAEED SHAH
McClatchy Newspapers


Twelve Afghan civilians died Sunday after U.S. rockets mistakenly hit a house during the much-trumpeted offensive to clear the last Taliban stronghold in Helmand province, a loss of life that is likely to seriously undermine the operation and the renewed American-led mission to win the trust of the population.

The use of the rockets has been suspended pending a "thorough review" of the incident, the U.S.-led International Security Assistance Force said in a statement.

An Afghan soldier and a Marine were injured in the firefight that preceded the rocket attack, on the second day of an operation to take control of the town of Marjah and the surrounding district of Nad Ali.

Operation Moshtarak, which means "together," is the biggest assault on the Taliban since the fall of the Islamic extremists' government in 2001 and the first major test of the new U.S. strategy for quelling the insurgency and stabilizing Afghanistan. A centerpiece to the offensive has been to minimize civilian casualties and the use of force.

A combined force of U.S., Afghan and British soldiers continued to come under sporadic fire Sunday, while facing constant danger from Taliban-laid mines, roadside bombs and booby-traps.

The large number of civilian deaths in a single incident calls into question the approach to the operation, and provides easy propaganda points to the Taliban enemy. Most of the 80,000 residents of Marjah stayed in their homes, despite weeks of public build-up to the assault.

After managing to avoid civilian casualties on the first day of the operation, which was declared a success, Sunday - Day Two - brought disaster.

A Marine unit embedded with Afghan soldiers, which came under sustained fire from two directions, called in a strike from heavy-duty munitions known as a Himars, which is a rocket system fired from a truck. Two rockets landed some 300 yards off target, killing the 12 civilians and wounding one.

"We deeply regret this tragic loss of life," said Stanley McChrystal, the U.S. general who leads international forces in Afghanistan. "The current operation in Central Helmand is aimed at restoring security and stability to this vital area of Afghanistan. It's regrettable that in the course of our joint efforts, innocent lives were lost."

McChrystal telephoned Afghan President Hamid Karzai to apologize for what he called the "unfortunate incident." The Afghan leader had cautioned the forces, as the operation began, to "exercise absolute caution to avoid harming civilians." The death of innocent Afghans in the war, often caused by misdirected air strikes, has inflamed public opinion in Afghanistan.

At issue is whether the use of the rockets was proportionate to the threat and why the weapon went so far wide of its intended target. The wrong co-ordinates could have been fed into the rocket launcher, or it suffered some technical failure, military officials believe.

An ISAF official, who could not be named because of the sensitivity of the issue, said the rockets were used after enemy fire made it impossible for helicopters to come in to evacuate the two injured soldiers. As evening fell in Afghanistan on Sunday, the Marine and Afghan unit were still under fire, more than 10 hours after the engagement began, he said.

"This (Himars) is a heavy thing to use under these circumstances but they used something that is usually very precise," the NATO official said. "They probably felt this was better than calling in an air attack."

The scale of operation, involving 15,000 soldiers, a large civilian presence, together with hundreds of Taliban fighting desperately against hopeless odds, and a town rigged with booby-traps, make civilian losses inevitable, analysts believe.

McChrystal, the pioneer of a new counter-insurgency strategy in Afghanistan, is faced with a delicate balance: the need to safeguard his own forces and the imperative of preventing civilian casualties. He has issued a series of directives to rein in the use of force, in an effort to win over an Afghan population often alienated and terrified by the use of air strikes and raids on homes. But that has brought criticism from within the military and in the U.S. that he was hamstringing soldiers in the field and putting their lives at risk.

"Civilian casualties have been one of the big issues that have been troubling the relationship between President Karzai, the Afghan people and international forces," said John Dempsey, head of the Afghanistan office of the U.S. Institute of Peace, an independent research organization.

So far in the operation, the Taliban resistance has been generally weak.

According to Dawood Ahmedi, a spokesman for the provincial governor of Helmand, 27 insurgents were killed so far, with five wounded and 11 arrested. The advancing force has uncovered 5,500 lbs of explosives.

"We are achieving our aims," Ahmedi said, speaking before the news of the civilian deaths. "The problem we are facing is the enemy has buried many mines, so the forces have to fight with both the enemy and the mines."

Quote from: Razgovory on February 14, 2010, 12:05:24 PM
They don't want westerners to search the houses with their women in them but Afghan soldiers are far more likely to start raping people.

Who cares?  Americans doing the searching can be used as propaganda.

QuoteCaught in the open: a firefight with the Taliban
By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA, Associated Press


BADULA QULP, Afghanistan – "Medic!" Bullets cracked through the dry grass. "Medic!"

"Who's hit?" someone yelled. The American soldiers were pinned down in a ditch Sunday, bodies prone in the mud.

"I don't know!" another voice shouted in the din of gunfire.

A U.S. soldier was down, shot in the chest by an insurgent near the besieged Taliban stronghold of Marjah. A Canadian soldier in the same patrol took a bullet in the front of his helmet, right where the center of his forehead was, like a bull's-eye. He was stunned, but unhurt.

Where were the insurgents shooting from? Which of the mud-walled compounds up ahead?

The firefight in the Badula Qulp region of Helmand province lasted about 45 minutes and tapered off after a Cobra helicopter shot a Hellfire missile into the building where the Taliban were believed hiding. Soldiers said they found the body of one suspected insurgent and heard another may have been buried quickly

It was a small skirmish in the grand scheme of the Afghan war. The focus of the fighting was to the southwest in Marjah, where U.S. Marines launched an offensive a day earlier.

But the intense gunfight showed the difficulty of fighting an enemy who knows the terrain, watches, waits and strikes when it chooses — frequently appearing to capitalize on Western rules designed to prevent civilian casualties.

The patrol began in the early afternoon, heading off a canal road and into farmland to the west. Fifty men: an American platoon, up to 30 Afghan soldiers and 10 Canadian troops who advise the Afghans. They moved slowly, in two columns. Two Afghan soldiers with metal detectors, searching for mines, led the way.

An Associated Press reporter and photographer accompanied the patrol.

The sky was clear, the air brisk, and it was very quiet. About 700 yards off the road, the soldiers saw four or five unarmed men, watching. The men moved away. Within minutes, gunfire erupted. Caught in the open, the patrol hit the earth and returned fire.

But it was an exposed position and hard to locate the source of fire. One group of soldiers picked up and sprinted, slowly, it seemed, with their cumbersome gear, for a shallow irrigation canal. It was cover, but not for long.

"I saw five guys, moving right to left," said Spc. Nathan Perry of Cedartown, Ga., hunkered in the ditch. He said he had felt bullets "around my feet, popping off."

A Canadian berated an Afghan soldier whose gunfire was too close to soldiers scattered elsewhere in the field.

"You've got friendlies there!" he screamed. "You've got friendlies there!"

"Hey sir, where's it coming from?" an American shouted to his platoon leader, 1st Lt. Gavin McMahon of Brooklyn, N.Y.

"Somewhere over there," McMahon said. He gestured west.

The men in the ditch pushed forward, trying to reach a low earthen berm for better cover. The Taliban had a line of sight straight down the canal. Rounds snapped a couple of feet away. To the AP reporter, a civilian with no military background, it seemed counterintuitive: running forward, toward the danger. Not back.

Then the American soldier got hit. The bullet hit the shoulder piece of his protective vest, and bounced down into his chest.

Spc. Benjamin McQuiston of Tucson, Ariz., was just ahead of the man, who cannot be identified until his family is notified in keeping with U.S. military regulations.

"When the shots went off, I heard him yelling. I thought he was scared. I was yelling too," McQuiston said later. "Then I heard him coughing. It sounded weird. I looked back and he was coughing up blood."

With shooting all around, soldiers cut away the injured man's shirt, and put a chest seal on the wound to prevent air entering.

"I'm going to be good," the man said. He was able to walk and had the energy to shout an obscenity at the Taliban.

McMahon was on the radio, calling for help. The mission had immediately shifted from fighting the Taliban to getting a wounded man to safety and treatment. The patrol pulled back, different groups laying down fire while others ran to cover, bunching up against mud walls.

But it wasn't over.

The AP reporter, hauling the wounded man's ammunition belt, was with two or three men who sprinted around a corner, straight into another ambush. The bullets flew past just a few feet away, maybe. It was hard to tell. It was also hard to tell what was cover and what wasn't. The only thing to do was to lie, crouch, curl up and hope.

There were glimpses of another world. A calf wandered in the midst of it all, moving its head this way and that, as though uncertain about which way to go. Up close, a big ant crawled over chunks of earth, oblivious to the adrenaline-fueled men trying to kill each other.

Spc. Andrew Szala of Newport, R.I., tried to keep the injured man talking, conscious. He chatted about the plot of a season of the American comedy series, "The Office," a send-up of white-collar life.

"Michael starts his own paper company. Pam goes with him. Jim stays behind," Szala said as the battle raged.

In the new ambush, a man was firing from above a green door. Spc. Richard French of Indianapolis was in the hatch of a Stryker, an American military vehicle, that pulled up on the canal road. He saw the man and opened fire with his M4 rifle.

"My first three rounds were tracers. I watched them go right into him. I watched him fall," French said later. "First time I ever killed anybody. That was interesting."

Close to the road and relative safety, soldiers saw a man in black walking. He was unarmed. They watched him in their scopes but did not shoot. Western forces in Afghanistan are operating under rules of engagement, or ROE, that restrict them from acting against people unless they commit a hostile act or show hostile intent. American troops say the Taliban can fire on them, then set aside their weapon and walk freely out of a compound, possibly toward a weapons cache in another location.

"The inability to stop people who don't have weapons is the main hindrance right now," McMahon said after the firefight. "They know how to use our ROE against us."

The patrol arrived back at its camp late in the afternoon. Sgt. 1st Class Norm Neumeyer of Pittsburgh walked over and told them their day wasn't over. They had to find the shooters. After a brief pause, they put their gear on and headed back down the road.

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U.S. soldiers and one Afghan soldier exchange fire with insurgents during a patrol in the Badula Qulp area, West of Lashkar Gah in Helmand province, southern Afghanistan, Sunday, Feb. 14, 2010. In the fight, one soldier was wounded and at least one insurgent was killed. The soldiers are operating in support of a U.S. Marine offensive against the Taliban in Marjah area.
(AP Photo/Pier Paolo Cito)

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A Canadian soldier points at the direction of fire coming from insurgents to an Afghan National Army soldier during a firefight in the Badula Qulp area, west of Lashkar Gah in Helmand province, southern Afghanistan, Sunday, Feb. 14, 2010. The soldiers are operating in support of a U.S. Marine offensive against the Taliban in Marjah area.
(AP Photo/Pier Paolo Cito)

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Bit of a PR own goal with the name.  Apparently 'mushtarak' is a Dari word which works for the Afghan army who are mostly Tajik, but not for the Pashtun's who this operation's aimed at.

It works for Americans because of the smash pop hit Mushtarak Love.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 15, 2010, 01:56:48 AM
It works for Americans because of the smash pop hit Mushtarak Love.

I don't know how I feel about this joke.  Still under consideration.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 15, 2010, 03:49:02 AM
I don't know how I feel about this joke.  Still under consideration.

24 hour time delay fuse, then it will hit you like a supernova.

QuoteUS Marines seize Taliban headquarters, IDs, photos
By ALFRED de MONTESQUIOU, Associated Press


MARJAH, Afghanistan – After a fierce gunfight, U.S. Marines seized a strongly defended compound Friday that appears to have been a Taliban headquarters — complete with photos of fighters posing with their weapons, dozens of Taliban-issued ID cards and graduation diplomas from a training camp in Pakistan.

Insurgents who had been using the field office just south of Marjah's town center abandoned it by the end of the day's fighting, as Marines converged on them from all sides, escalating operations to break resistance in this Taliban stronghold in southern Helmand province.

Marines from Lima Company, 3rd Battalion, 6th Marines fought their way south from the town center Friday after residents told them that several dozen insurgent fighters had regrouped in the area.

Throughout the day, small groups of Taliban marksmen tried to slow the advance with rifle fire as they slowly fell back in face of the Marine assault.

"They know that they are outnumbered ... and that in the end they don't have the firepower to compete with us conventionally," said Capt. Joshua Winfrey of Tulsa, Okla., commander of Lima Company, 3rd Battalion, 6th Marines.

As the Marines advanced, they found rows of abandoned bunkers dug alongside an irrigation canal that the Taliban had used to fire on them the day before. Located at a crossroads, the five abandoned bunkers, camouflaged under a layer of mud, looked out across an open field. In the near distance, large stones had been set up to help the Taliban site in on their targets.

Just behind the bunkers, the Marines found a compound, surrounded by a mudbrick wall, typical of family homes in the town.

Inside the compound, where a few chickens still wandered, Marines uncovered dozens of Taliban-issued ID cards, official Taliban letterhead stationery and government stamps.

They also found graduation diplomas from an insurgent training camp in Baluchistan, an area of southern Pakistan that borders Helmand province, along with photos of fighters posing with AK-47 assault rifles.

The insurgents had fled with their weapons and ammunition. The Marines said they'd been coming under fire all day — but never saw any of the elusive gunmen, who retreated to resume hit-and-run tactics using snipers and small gun squads to harass Marine lines.

Lima Company's advance was part of a move by several Marine companies to converge on a pocket of Taliban fighters from all four directions. The Marines believe they've cornered what appeared to be a significant Taliban fighting force.

"It seems that it's their last stand," Winfrey said.

NATO said one service member died Friday in a small-arms attack but did not identify the victim by nationality.

Six coalition troops were killed Thursday, NATO said, making it the deadliest day since the offensive began Feb. 13. The death toll for the operation stands at 12 NATO troops and one Afghan soldier. Britain's Defense Ministry said three British soldiers were among those killed Thursday.

No precise figures on Taliban deaths have been released, but senior Marine officers say intelligence reports suggest more than 120 have died. The officers spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to release the information.

The Marjah offensive is the biggest since the 2001 U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan and a test of President Barack Obama's strategy for reversing the rise of the Taliban while protecting civilians.

Marjah, 360 miles (610 kilometers) southwest of Kabul, has an estimated population of 80,000 and had been under Taliban control for years.

Before dawn on Saturday, about two dozen elite Marines were dropped by helicopter into an area where skilled Taliban marksmen were known to operate, an officer said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of security concerns.

A NATO statement said troops were still meeting "some resistance" from insurgents and that homemade bombs remain the key threat.

At a briefing in London, Maj. Gen. Gordon Messenger said the militant holdouts don't threaten the overall offensive but will take time to clear out.

"The levels of resistance in these areas has increased but not beyond expectation. We expected after the enemy had time to catch its breath, they would up the level of resistance, and that's happened," he said.

As U.S. and Afghan troops moved south Friday, they continued to sweep through houses, searching for bombs and questioning residents.

One man came forward and revealed a Taliban position a mile (1.6 kilometers) away. The man, who was not identified for security reasons, said he was angry because insurgents had earlier taken over his home.

He gave U.S. forces detailed information, saying more than a dozen Taliban fighters were waiting to ambush troops there. The position was rigged with dozens of homemade bombs and booby-traps, he said.

Outside of Marjah, U.S. and Afghan troops, backed by Stryker infantry vehicles, pushed into a section of mud-walled compounds that had been occupied by the Taliban in the Badula Qulp region, northeast of town.

Hit with small arms fire, the troops retaliated with machine guns and fired off a missile at a house where insurgents were believed to be hiding, and the militants quickly withdrew.



Associated Press writers Sylvia Hui in London, Rahim Faiez in Helmand province, Noor Khan in Kandahar and Tini Tran in Kabul contributed to this report.

Explain the joke to me Yi. I feel like I should get it, like I almost get it, but I don't get it.

Ask Uncle Money.

Right.

Seed once said he'd be my BFF in NYC. I'm still holding my breath.

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US marines and British troops are seen in front of a Danish Leopard tank in Trikh Nawar close to the town of Marjah in southern Afghanistan on February 21                                          (AFP/Patrick Baz)

1,000th American soldier dies in Afghanistan.  :(

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35534294/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/

Quote from: citizen k on February 22, 2010, 03:40:53 AM
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US marines and British troops are seen in front of a Danish Leopard tank in Trikh Nawar close to the town of Marjah in southern Afghanistan on February 21                                          (AFP/Patrick Baz)

:smoke:

Quote from: citizen k on February 22, 2010, 03:40:53 AM
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US marines and British troops are seen in front of a Danish Leopard tank in Trikh Nawar close to the town of Marjah in southern Afghanistan on February 21                                          (AFP/Patrick Baz)

It is very strange, but it is reported that the Talebans loath those three Leopards.

I mean, they are good tanks and all, but we only sent three, but for some reason the Taleban have been unable to really target them. We (the Danes and British) apparently use them in two ways. As mobile art. support over the green valley, and as massive cover when the British Royal Engineers needs to work on Highway 1 to reconstruct the drains to avoid bombs.

They simply put 1 or 2 tanks in the desert as shields at night while the engineers work and use the optics and termal sight to scan the desert.

V

QuoteAfghans give US soldiers a run for their money
By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA, Associated Press

BADULA QULP, Afghanistan – The battalion commander pondered the question: How much is a tree worth?

Warrior one day, haggler the next. Lt. Col. Burton Shields was talking to an Afghan farmer who said the Americans had damaged five trees on his property in an operation against the Taliban near the town of Marjah, where NATO forces are fighting insurgent holdouts.

The farmer, an elderly man with a beard and turban, wanted compensation.

"What's a fair price for five trees? I don't know. How much is a tree worth?" Shields mused. Then, he couldn't resist: "Money doesn't grow on trees."

Just the night before, Shields of Winston-Salem, North Carolina, was surrounded by attentive officers in uniform in a tent on a patrol base, plotting military strategy and assessing the threat of hidden bombs and insurgent infiltration.

The next day, Thursday, the men around him were Afghan elders, faces lined by decades of sun and wind, a few wearing battered army jackets over their robes, relics of past wars.

The farmer, Habibullah, got 30,000 Afghanis, or $600, for his trees. He had asked for another $200, but Shields and his money men — Staff. Sgt. Christopher Wooton and 1st Lt. Daniel Hickok — bargained low in the best bazaar tradition. Rules of thumb: shave off up to 40 percent, or more, of an opening bid from an aggrieved villager and lean heavily on Afghan commanders as "honest brokers."

Still, the Afghans overall gave the Americans a run for their money. The troops parted with more than $10,000 as part of a plan to compensate civilians for damage to crops and compounds, and also injuries — whether caused by the Taliban or not — after more than two weeks of combat.

The aim: Show the goodwill of NATO forces, and persuade the local population to support the Western-backed government.

"I assume everyone's trying to take us for as much as they can get," said Shields, clutching a stack of handwritten claim forms. "The Afghan system is kind of inflated."

He paid $5,000 to the leaders of a village whose mosque was destroyed by an American missile that targeted an insurgent allegedly hiding in the building. He paid $50 to a man whose 1,000-square-meter (quarter-acre) patch of land was torn up by Stryker infantry vehicles, which often go off-road to avoid improvised explosive devices, or IEDs, that the Taliban plants on, under or beside roads.

The man had been growing poppy, the opium-bearing flower that provides the Taliban with a major source of funding in southern Afghanistan. His case revealed the line between strict policy and hard reality.

"We don't pay for poppy, sir," said Wooton, of Richmond, Virginia. Hickok, of Puyallup, Washington, sat beside him, plucking fresh bank notes from a black zip-up bag.

"Depends on how you look at it, I guess," said Shields. "We could be paying for damage to the land, but not for the poppy."

Later, the commander of 4th Battalion, 23rd Infantry Regiment of the 5th Stryker Brigade explained, saying the farmer likely had no alternative to poppy-growing until the government could organize seed distribution for legitimate crops.

With the help of a Pashto-speaking translator, Wooton alternated between stiff courtesy — "I hope your harvest is a good one this year" — and exasperation — "This isn't a money stop. Tell him I want $1,000 too, but I just can't take it."

He was ever-mindful of security. The Afghans lined up for payouts after a meeting beside a compound with the chief of staff of the district administrator, who was absent from the region until NATO troops rolled in. In keeping with local sensitivities, the frisking of arrivals was left to Afghan troops, but American soldiers wore flak jackets, carried weapons, and most kept their helmets on.

"Tell him he can't stand behind me. He needs to move on," Wooton said as an Afghan man circled in the background.

A large explosion in the distance forced a pause in the proceedings. The report came that a building had blown up while insurgents were building a bomb.

"Very good," said Shields. He and the top Afghan commander in the area, Maj. Abdul Jalal, shared a fist-bump.

As the haggling progressed, Sgt. 1st Class Joshua Morgan of Murfreesboro, Tennessee, sat on a box and said villagers had offered to sell him a goat for $200, a steep price compared with the $35 he paid while deployed in another area of southern Afghanistan.

Morgan said he wanted to trap one of the many weasels he had seen on this deployment. "If it's got a heartbeat, I'll eat it. I'm from Tennessee."

Quote from: citizen k on February 26, 2010, 04:51:50 AM
Morgan said he wanted to trap one of the many weasels he had seen on this deployment. "If it's got a heartbeat, I'll eat it. I'm from Tennessee."

:lol: For some reason I couldn't help but think of Caliga.

Weasel is good eatin'.

Sounds like they're really throwing money around

Quote from: Valdemar on February 23, 2010, 09:31:26 AM

Quote from: citizen k on February 22, 2010, 03:40:53 AM
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US marines and British troops are seen in front of a Danish Leopard tank in Trikh Nawar close to the town of Marjah in southern Afghanistan on February 21                                          (AFP/Patrick Baz)

It is very strange, but it is reported that the Talebans loath those three Leopards.

I mean, they are good tanks and all, but we only sent three, but for some reason the Taleban have been unable to really target them. We (the Danes and British) apparently use them in two ways. As mobile art. support over the green valley, and as massive cover when the British Royal Engineers needs to work on Highway 1 to reconstruct the drains to avoid bombs.

They simply put 1 or 2 tanks in the desert as shields at night while the engineers work and use the optics and termal sight to scan the desert.

V

Good for the Danes. Seems they're "fighting above their weight", doing a great job, in the difficult mix of things, especially for a small military.

Hehe :D just read a funny report in the local paper.

The 3 Leopards are now back at cap price after being part of the attack.

They had supported opening of one of the two highways into the theater that the taleban had closed earlier on.

They had only fired their gun once:

The Taleban had fired at them, they returned fire with the 120mm gun, once, recieved no return fire from that position and had no one fire at them for the remainder of the two week long assignment :D

V

Citizen K, some more cool Afghan pics for you

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/03/afghanistan_march_2010.html

Picture #5 : Guy is doing Air guitar? :lol:

Quote from: Viking on February 13, 2010, 02:14:07 PM

The oldest? Here are some pictures from the early days

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Edit: Yes, I'm going to hell.

Nice pic - Alexander and...?  What was his lover's name again?




G.

Hephaistion

Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 06, 2010, 08:05:24 AM
Citizen K, some more cool Afghan pics for you

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/03/afghanistan_march_2010.html

LOL to number 24