... not always a good idea.
See this mess:
http://www.lawtimesnews.com/201002016292/Headline-News/Online-comments-spark-messy-litigation
The problem is that society has allowed lawyers to overbreed and multiply. They need to be culled.
I was a regular on that board (hell, I was a mod), and even posted in the impugned thread. :ph34r:
Quote from: Barrister on February 05, 2010, 10:26:24 AM
I was a regular on that board (hell, I was a mod), and even posted in the impugned thread. :ph34r:
What happened? Did you forget to use your mod powers for good instead of evil? :D
The article pretty much sums it up. It was a board supposedly aimed at the Canadian legal community. The signal to noise ratio was pretty low, but I found it interesting enough to keep coming back over a few years. The ownership of the board was always kept a mystery though - even as a mod there we were never clear who we 'reported to', and most of our issues or complaints went ignored.
Anyways, back in March '09 someone from a business called Advice Scene showed up, gave a link, and asked for comments. Several people thought it wasn't much of a business, and questioned various issues of trying to give legal advice over the internet. The Advice Scene person respectfully disagreed, but even said 'thanks for the comments, even the negative ones'.
In retrospect, since I'm able to go back and look at deleted threads, I actually said 'I think you guys are a bit harsh, I don't see anything objectionable, but I'm not about to start posting there'.
The thread however lasted a few days, then went off the radar.
Until many months later, we all log into the board to see a giant-ass apology to Advice Scene plastered across the top of the board. We ask what the hell has happened, and we actually get an answer. Advice Scene filed a Statement of Claim for defamation based on the thread. The board owners (who it turns out are ZSA, a legal recruitment company), don't want to fight the suit, so they give AS whatever they want. Which it turns out was the apology, and all possible information about 4 individual posters who they thought were objectionable.
Since they didn't actually tell the 4 people involved until after they gave out the info, people were quite upset. At that point I guess ZSA had enough, as they simply shut down the board entirely a couple days later.
But anyways, as the article makes clear, one of the 4 is actually a lawyer who had numerous times said exactly who he was (a plaintiff's attorney in Ontario). So although he was never served a Statement of Claim, and was only named a "John Doe #3", he proceeds to file a Statement of Defence to the claim.
So anyways, nobody looks very good coming out of this (other than Russ, the lawyer). Advice Scene looks incredibly silly for launching a defamation claim almost a year later, over a thread that few people ever saw, for comments that don't appear to be defamatory, and for which they were looking for comments. ZSA however looks like hell for throwing the anonymity of its posters away without even informing the people in question. And in the end one of my daily internet stops has closed down.
But I guess it should be expected for a board catering to lawyers. As a mod we pretty routinely had people threaten to sue us. Mostly those threats were ridiculous and were never acted upon, but I guess it was only a matter of time.
Fortunately we never talk bad about anyone or anything on this board, so we should be safe. :)
Quote from: Syt on February 05, 2010, 12:20:33 PM
Fortunately we never talk bad about anyone or anything on this board, so we should be safe. :)
:shifty:
Actually I tried to make the point a few years ago that a lot of the stuff we say on this board could theoretically be actionable. And there is a slow but steady stream of stories of people getting into very real trouble over things posted on blogs, facebook, etc. So I do try to keep that in mind whenever I posted things even on Languish.
A board made up entirely of lawyers must be a petty and dull place with all the excitement of a slow motion slap fight.
Would any of this actually hold up in court?
If yes. My faith in the canadian legal system is totally gone.
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 05, 2010, 12:47:06 PM
Would any of this actually hold up in court?
Doesn't matter. It'll cost you a lot of money to actually fight it in court. So unless you're a litigous self-employed lawyer who isn't above using the incident for a bit of self-promotion, you run for the hills.
One other twist: someone has been running a blog about the litigation. It's not clear who they are, other than they have a major axe to grind against lawbuzz. But if you're really, really interested in this story, the blog does contain links to the pleadings, news stories, and the like.
http://lawbuzzlitigation.blogspot.com/
Quote from: Syt on February 05, 2010, 12:20:33 PM
Fortunately we never talk bad about anyone or anything on this board, so we should be safe. :)
My statements of claim are ready just in case ... :licklips:
Hyundai Route 60 sucks.
I personally am glad the old board died along will all the posts ever made on it.
Lest if I ever made something of my life I'd be fucked :p
Quote from: Tyr on February 05, 2010, 01:15:13 PM
I personally am glad the old board died along will all the posts ever made on it.
Lest if I ever made something of my life I'd be fucked :p
Someone would have to prove Tyr is in fact you, though. I think anything pointing to you is pretty circumstantial.
Quote from: Josephus on February 05, 2010, 02:12:17 PM
Quote from: Tyr on February 05, 2010, 01:15:13 PM
I personally am glad the old board died along will all the posts ever made on it.
Lest if I ever made something of my life I'd be fucked :p
Someone would have to prove Tyr is in fact you, though. I think anything pointing to you is pretty circumstantial.
Not really.
Your IP is logged for every post. Your IP then points to who your service provider is.
Your servioce provider in turn has records on who it's customers are, and who is using what IP at any given time.
With the appropriate court orders you can easily identify which household and which computer made any given point.
The issue can be once you've ID'd the computer, you have to figure out who used it. But even then it can certainly be done.
How do you think we manage to get child porn convictions? :ph34r:
Quote from: Malthus on February 05, 2010, 10:29:18 AM
Quote from: Barrister on February 05, 2010, 10:26:24 AM
I was a regular on that board (hell, I was a mod), and even posted in the impugned thread. :ph34r:
What happened?
:rolleyes:
WHAT HAPPEN :contract:
Quote from: The Brain on February 05, 2010, 02:37:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 05, 2010, 10:29:18 AM
Quote from: Barrister on February 05, 2010, 10:26:24 AM
I was a regular on that board (hell, I was a mod), and even posted in the impugned thread. :ph34r:
What happened?
:rolleyes:
WHAT HAPPEN :contract:
SOMEONE SET UP US THE BOMB
Quote from: Barrister on February 05, 2010, 02:18:39 PM
How do you think we manage to get child porn convictions? :ph34r:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa299%2FSlayhem%2Fbribe.jpg&hash=5d840dc7d18805a45427a833929223886bd5c778)
Quote from: The Brain on February 05, 2010, 02:37:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 05, 2010, 10:29:18 AM
Quote from: Barrister on February 05, 2010, 10:26:24 AM
I was a regular on that board (hell, I was a mod), and even posted in the impugned thread. :ph34r:
What happened?
:rolleyes:
WHAT HAPPEN :contract:
Did you miss the long-ass post I made directly below Malthus' question? :huh:
Quote from: Barrister on February 05, 2010, 02:18:39 PM
Not really.
Your IP is logged for every post. Your IP then points to who your service provider is.
Your servioce provider in turn has records on who it's customers are, and who is using what IP at any given time.
With the appropriate court orders you can easily identify which household and which computer made any given point.
The issue can be once you've ID'd the computer, you have to figure out who used it. But even then it can certainly be done.
How do you think we manage to get child porn convictions? :ph34r:
I don't have a service provider and yet I can post. :ph34r:
Quote from: Barrister on February 05, 2010, 02:48:56 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 05, 2010, 02:37:40 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 05, 2010, 10:29:18 AM
Quote from: Barrister on February 05, 2010, 10:26:24 AM
I was a regular on that board (hell, I was a mod), and even posted in the impugned thread. :ph34r:
What happened?
:rolleyes:
WHAT HAPPEN :contract:
Did you miss the long-ass post I made directly below Malthus' question? :huh:
FFS it was only zero score and seven years ago that the Portuguese Jew wrote it in the stab thread.
Garbo, yes there are ways to avoid being tracked - proxy servers, wifi connections. But most people don't do that.
Quote from: Barrister on February 05, 2010, 02:18:39 PM
Quote from: Josephus on February 05, 2010, 02:12:17 PM
Quote from: Tyr on February 05, 2010, 01:15:13 PM
I personally am glad the old board died along will all the posts ever made on it.
Lest if I ever made something of my life I'd be fucked :p
Someone would have to prove Tyr is in fact you, though. I think anything pointing to you is pretty circumstantial.
Not really.
Your IP is logged for every post. Your IP then points to who your service provider is.
Your servioce provider in turn has records on who it's customers are, and who is using what IP at any given time.
With the appropriate court orders you can easily identify which household and which computer made any given point.
The issue can be once you've ID'd the computer, you have to figure out who used it. But even then it can certainly be done.
How do you think we manage to get child porn convictions? :ph34r:
Child porn, and possibly other heavy duty crimes have international agreemetns that will accept court orders across nation state borders.. I doubt infamatory statements will be accepted as reason to open up foreign registers at ISPs
V
Quote from: Barrister on February 05, 2010, 02:54:53 PM
Garbo, yes there are ways to avoid being tracked - proxy servers, wifi connections. But most people don't do that.
A lot of city dwellers do though. The cafes here are always packed with people using the wireless.
Quote from: Barrister on February 05, 2010, 12:52:05 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 05, 2010, 12:47:06 PM
Would any of this actually hold up in court?
Doesn't matter. It'll cost you a lot of money to actually fight it in court.
Which is, more than anything, what makes people lose faith in the legal system. How effective is the protection of one's rights if you need to bankrupt yourself to do it?
Quote from: DGuller on February 05, 2010, 03:19:50 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 05, 2010, 12:52:05 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 05, 2010, 12:47:06 PM
Would any of this actually hold up in court?
Doesn't matter. It'll cost you a lot of money to actually fight it in court.
Which is, more than anything, what makes people lose faith in the legal system. How effective is the protection of one's rights if you need to bankrupt yourself to do it?
In Canada this is offset to an extent by cost rules, but still - lose faith compared with what? The alternative if you have a serious dispute with someone is ... ?
Quote from: garbon on February 05, 2010, 03:15:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 05, 2010, 02:54:53 PM
Garbo, yes there are ways to avoid being tracked - proxy servers, wifi connections. But most people don't do that.
A lot of city dwellers do though. The cafes here are always packed with people using the wireless.
Libraries, too. A while back I needed to print something off the net, but my printer was messed up. Not having the time at the moment to try and figure out what the printer's problem was and then fix it, and not wanting to buy a new printer if it was something easily fixable like needing to download a driver or something, I decided to go to the local public library and download and print the documents there. All their computers were already in use (I got there about 10 minutes after they opened), and there was also already like a 3-hour waiting list.
Quote from: dps on February 05, 2010, 07:44:14 PM
Libraries, too. A while back I needed to print something off the net, but my printer was messed up. Not having the time at the moment to try and figure out what the printer's problem was and then fix it, and not wanting to buy a new printer if it was something easily fixable like needing to download a driver or something, I decided to go to the local public library and download and print the documents there. All their computers were already in use (I got there about 10 minutes after they opened), and there was also already like a 3-hour waiting list.
The tragedy of the commons.
There's still no such thing as anonymity; libraries still keep logs of who was using what computer, when.
As far as routers disguising computer identities, they do... to a point. Routers still have to keep track of what computer to make sure the correct equipment receives the correct service. Also, there's a couple different methods of using routers. The usual method in home networks is to have one permitted MAC address assigned by the ISP and use the router to "spoof" the hardware IDs so that the ISP only sees one computer accessing (stressing, though, that the router can be set to log all access from the network). In larger networking schemes, it's more acceptable practice to use NAT technology, where the router behaves like a mini-ISP and does the full task of handling hardware IDs and distributing IP addresses. I believe those bigger NAT routers log by default, since they're meant for more varied access and owners need to be better covered in the event of network misuse. Wags or Moldy would have more of a working knowledge of this, where I've learned it, but don't use it so often, so it's possible I'm not up to speed anymore on router behavior.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on February 05, 2010, 08:49:45 PM
There's still no such thing as anonymity; libraries still keep logs of who was using what computer, when.
The staff here didn't even ask for my ID, and I'm pretty sure that they don't know me on sight.
They could have you on camera though and that could be used to ID you later on. :(
I avoid sites like that. I feel safe here where the worst it gets is that I abuse Marti, who for all I know is actually a 300 lbs trucker wishing he was a polish lawyer who wishes he was gay.
Quote from: Barrister on February 05, 2010, 12:35:03 PM
Actually I tried to make the point a few years ago that a lot of the stuff we say on this board could theoretically be actionable. And there is a slow but steady stream of stories of people getting into very real trouble over things posted on blogs, facebook, etc. So I do try to keep that in mind whenever I posted things even on Languish.
If I'm ever in a position where anything I post here will come back to haunt me (eg., Senate confirmation hearing for a cabinet post) I will use my political connections to hunt down and annihilate the Languish server.
When I'm in a poisition of power, the Internet will be banned anyways, and dissidents (ie. most of you here) will be in a gulag in the Yukon, near BB's house.
Quote from: Josephus on February 06, 2010, 10:04:11 AM
When I'm in a poisition of power, the Internet will be banned anyways, and dissidents (ie. most of you here) will be in a gulag in the Yukon, near BB's house.
Your turn to the dark side pleases me.
What would you do with Tim?
Quote from: Barrister on February 05, 2010, 12:35:03 PM
Actually I tried to make the point a few years ago that a lot of the stuff we say on this board could theoretically be actionable. And there is a slow but steady stream of stories of people getting into very real trouble over things posted on blogs, facebook, etc. So I do try to keep that in mind whenever I posted things even on Languish.
So if Siege does get injured, will Marty be a suspect?
Quote from: Josephus on February 06, 2010, 10:04:11 AM
When I'm in a poisition of power, the Internet will be banned anyways, and dissidents (ie. most of you here) will be in a gulag in the Yukon, near BB's house.
It is best if you keep me near my ski hills. If you take that away from me I dedicate my life to the revolution.
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 06, 2010, 11:36:24 AM
Quote from: Josephus on February 06, 2010, 10:04:11 AM
When I'm in a poisition of power, the Internet will be banned anyways, and dissidents (ie. most of you here) will be in a gulag in the Yukon, near BB's house.
It is best if you keep me near my ski hills. If you take that away from me I dedicate my life to the revolution.
There are ski hills near my house. :Canuck: