I bought the game when it was published, and played it a lot, but I rememeber the vanilla game had lots of unresolved issues and ultimately I never finished it.
Now I've found it in a €5 bin in a shop round here, and was considering buying it to play on my less than performing laptop: is there anything I need to know - recent patches, user created content, anything that can enhance the game?
L.
What's a Euro worth again?
1 yuro = 1,5 dollah
Do your math
L.
Quote from: Pedrito on December 09, 2009, 04:35:55 AM
1 yuro = 1,5 dollah
Do your math
L.
Okay, then the answer is no.
Any game that isn't completely fucked up is worth its price at €5 IMO.
I never finished it either, but if I picked it up today I would probably get some sort of trainer and max out everything just to explore the story and whatever stuff I couldn't do last time around due to character limitations.
Absolutely. There is a great patch by Drog Blacktooth over on the terra arcanum forums. http://www.terra-arcanum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=14895 (http://www.terra-arcanum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=14895) Fixes most if not all of the bugs. Couple other downloads that add some content that wasn't enabled initially as well. Combat system isn't good, but the characters are interesting and the story is great. Also has a no CD patch, for when you constantly lose your play disk <_<.
i liked the secret gnome conspiracy subplot
and how the gnomes were basically the jews of arcanum :D
Worth it, every cent.
Quote from: Lacroix on December 09, 2009, 09:28:42 PM
i liked the secret gnome conspiracy subplot
and how the gnomes were basically the jews of arcanum :D
Problem is like so many of the ideas, it doesn't really go anywhere. The game feels unrealized.
which part? the former isn't supposed to go anywhere. it's a realization that the jews gnomes will always be in control and there's no stopping their insidious goals. the latter just provides atmosphere to the game. i think the game excels there. between orcs being used as factory slaves, magic interfering with technology, and even a bill gates-like character who built his success on the theft of ideas from another race, i think the game solidly creates a unique fantasy world that parallels our own in a number of ways.
it's lord of the rings in the victorian age, what more could you want? :bowler:
Quote from: Lacroix on December 10, 2009, 09:22:00 AM
which part? the former isn't supposed to go anywhere. it's a realization that the jews gnomes will always be in control and there's no stopping their insidious goals. the latter just provides atmosphere to the game. i think the game excels there. between orcs being used as factory slaves, magic interfering with technology, and even a bill gates-like character who built his success on the theft of ideas from another race, i think the game solidly creates a unique fantasy world that parallels our own in a number of ways.
it's lord of the rings in the victorian age, what more could you want? :bowler:
I'd like a game that is balanced in play with a decent AI and some interesting challenges.
different strokes for different people :)
The problem with Arcanum is despite what should be a fascinating setting and concept magic is simply better than technology so you sorta end up with swords and spells, and despite a great backstory fighting generic enemies by the bucket load. I mean there is a ton of fighting in that game, which is odd since it uses a system similar to fallout which was designed to enable you to build a character that can win without killing anybody.
I played Arcanum quite a bit but never did beat it. I remember liking it, but I think I got some other game that distracted me and then I never went back to it.
I don't think I could take it up again today, simply because the graphics are so bad by modern standards they would actually hurt my eyes. :( I tried to go back to Fallout 2 once and couldn't for this reason. :blush:
Quote from: Caliga on December 10, 2009, 11:04:46 AM
I played Arcanum quite a bit but never did beat it. I remember liking it, but I think I got some other game that distracted me and then I never went back to it.
Pity the surprise ending was one of the best parts. Totally blew me away.
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2009, 11:11:33 AM
Pity the surprise ending was one of the best parts. Totally blew me away.
Yes. Arcanum had a great* story and setting, but the interface was a bit clunky and magic ruled supreme.
*By CRPG standards, anyway.
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2009, 11:11:33 AM
Quote from: Caliga on December 10, 2009, 11:04:46 AM
I played Arcanum quite a bit but never did beat it. I remember liking it, but I think I got some other game that distracted me and then I never went back to it.
Pity the surprise ending was one of the best parts. Totally blew me away.
I'll never play it again, so do you mind sharing (in spoiler white text, plz)?
Quote from: Caliga on December 10, 2009, 11:04:46 AM
I don't think I could take it up again today, simply because the graphics are so bad by modern standards they would actually hurt my eyes. :( I tried to go back to Fallout 2 once and couldn't for this reason. :blush:
The graphics were awful for when it was released
Quote from: Caliga on December 10, 2009, 11:36:18 AM
I'll never play it again, so do you mind sharing (in spoiler white text, plz)?
Well I would love to but it was a long time ago and I do not remember it well enough to do it justice.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on December 10, 2009, 11:39:06 AM
The graphics were awful for when it was released
Yep. So was the interface. The decision to even bother with a real time option is one of the reasons Troika failed in the end.
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2009, 11:01:36 AM
The problem with Arcanum is despite what should be a fascinating setting and concept magic is simply better than technology so you sorta end up with swords and spells, and despite a great backstory fighting generic enemies by the bucket load. I mean there is a ton of fighting in that game, which is odd since it uses a system similar to fallout which was designed to enable you to build a character that can win without killing anybody.
while the harm-harm-harm-harm--ad infinitum--tactic does work nicely with almost every encounter in the game, i used to make technologically inclined characters and had great success there. plus, at least in the world it's acknowledged that technology trumps magic. just consider the decayed kingdom that refuses technology because of tradition, or the elven nation that faces destruction from loggers. there are a lot of enemies to fight, but i guess it never bothered me much
Quote from: Lacroix on December 10, 2009, 12:10:04 PM
there are a lot of enemies to fight, but i guess it never bothered me much
And not only are they numerous they are rather boring. Very few wizards or soldiers with modern weapons or the sorts of encounters you would have expected. Rather you get lots of giant spiders and the like.
sometimes there were innocent zombie dwarves and the populations of tarant and stillwater to murder :menace:
I remember loving Arcanum. If I saw it on sale for that price I'd pick it up again :)
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2009, 12:13:54 PM
Quote from: Lacroix on December 10, 2009, 12:10:04 PM
there are a lot of enemies to fight, but i guess it never bothered me much
And not only are they numerous they are rather boring. Very few wizards or soldiers with modern weapons or the sorts of encounters you would have expected. Rather you get lots of giant spiders and the like.
Yeah, I can only think of two fights where you take on guys with guns. Guns are mostly useless (though grenades are handy). It's rather annoying the way the character system works as well since you have to spread quite a few points around to make anything decent (especially on the tech side). Also your allies aren't very handy, even ones with spells or tech only spend a few points on that. The fan made stuff helps alot, but still it's no wonder that the Troika went under.
Thanks for the info :)
I think I'll get it (again), I discovered it's packed with the latest patch and the Blacktooth's unfinished content patch :cool:
L.
Quote from: Pedrito on December 11, 2009, 03:48:03 AM
Thanks for the info :)
I think I'll get it (again), I discovered it's packed with the latest patch and the Blacktooth's unfinished content patch :cool:
L.
Really? That's a bit surprising.
Quote from: Caliga on December 10, 2009, 11:36:18 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 10, 2009, 11:11:33 AM
Quote from: Caliga on December 10, 2009, 11:04:46 AM
I played Arcanum quite a bit but never did beat it. I remember liking it, but I think I got some other game that distracted me and then I never went back to it.
Pity the surprise ending was one of the best parts. Totally blew me away.
I'll never play it again, so do you mind sharing (in spoiler white text, plz)?
The Elven mage who you thought was the cause of everything has repented for his sins in the Mage equivalent of hell, and some evil human Necromancer from the same period is the evil Red mage, and has trapped the Elf. However, he isn't traditionally evil, like all villains in Troika/Black Isle games; he just wants to end all life. To him, life is just an absurd shadow of an existence when compared with the Nirvana-like state of true death. The final FMV fucking rules, though it appears a tiny bit dated. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMZi217RUUY)
Truly awesome ending, really reminds me of Fallout. In the best possible way.
Quote
I remember loving Arcanum. If I saw it on sale for that price I'd pick it up again
:thumbsup:
Quote
Insert Quote
The problem with Arcanum is despite what should be a fascinating setting and concept magic is simply better than technology so you sorta end up with swords and spells, and despite a great backstory fighting generic enemies by the bucket load. I mean there is a ton of fighting in that game, which is odd since it uses a system similar to fallout which was designed to enable you to build a character that can win without killing anybody.
Tech could get you a lot more money, and the tesla gun, elephant gun and machine gun could all do a ton of damage, and tech armor at the end was generally a lot better than magical equivalents. Tech was harder, but often more rewarding, and once you got to repeater rifles the difference in difficulty starts leveling out, especially if you get some good tech armor.
It was a good game and I finished it. Wouldn't play it now though. I rarely play old games.
what about playing veterinarian?
just like playing doctor, you don't need to go to a hospital for that. all you need is a hand :)
Quote from: Lacroix on December 11, 2009, 07:19:03 PM
just like playing doctor, you don't need to go to a hospital for that. all you need is a hand :)
My hand is busy.
Quote from: The Brain on December 11, 2009, 07:21:37 PM
Quote from: Lacroix on December 11, 2009, 07:19:03 PM
just like playing doctor, you don't need to go to a hospital for that. all you need is a hand :)
My hand is busy.
:hug:
Quote from: Queequeg on December 11, 2009, 10:42:36 AM
Tech could get you a lot more money, and the tesla gun, elephant gun and machine gun could all do a ton of damage, and tech armor at the end was generally a lot better than magical equivalents. Tech was harder, but often more rewarding, and once you got to repeater rifles the difference in difficulty starts leveling out, especially if you get some good tech armor.
Yup, I've always played tech and once you get past the initial levels it isn't too hard.
Got the game out again, patched it up with the Unofficial stuff, and tried it again, just for old times' sake.
Still not the game it could have been, and not even the game it needs to be. Like Space, 1889, it is a game that should by rights be remade, and made right. I could so see the Oblivion/FO3 engine working with this plot and setting.
As it is, though... probably not not worth 5 Euros.
Btw, now available for download on GOG for USD 6.
http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/arcanum_of_steamworks_and_magick_obscura
Download comes with wallpapers, map, documentation etc. As usual, the whole thing is DRM free and should run on Vista machines.
Quote from: grumbler on December 12, 2009, 07:29:23 PM
Got the game out again, patched it up with the Unofficial stuff, and tried it again, just for old times' sake.
Still not the game it could have been, and not even the game it needs to be. Like Space, 1889, it is a game that should by rights be remade, and made right. I could so see the Oblivion/FO3 engine working with this plot and setting.
As it is, though... probably not not worth 5 Euros.
I agree with this post 100%. I don't believe there was ever enough of a fanbase to see an Oblivion-style remake for this, as awesome as it could possibly turn out.
Quote from: Caliga on January 28, 2010, 01:23:09 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 12, 2009, 07:29:23 PM
Got the game out again, patched it up with the Unofficial stuff, and tried it again, just for old times' sake.
Still not the game it could have been, and not even the game it needs to be. Like Space, 1889, it is a game that should by rights be remade, and made right. I could so see the Oblivion/FO3 engine working with this plot and setting.
As it is, though... probably not not worth 5 Euros.
I agree with this post 100%. I don't believe there was ever enough of a fanbase to see an Oblivion-style remake for this, as awesome as it could possibly turn out.
There was at least some fanbase for some people to keep fixing the game well after the company went bankrupt. It was sad actually, the game had some interesting concepts to it. I applaud any game that tries to be a bit original. It's hard to be original, polished, and fun. Fallout 3 was not original but was polished and a hell of alot of fun. Arcanum was original, not well polished, and sometimes fun. Dragon age isn't very original but extremely well polished and fun. Sigh, I suppose that's the way of things.
I am an original, polished and fun.
Quote from: grumbler on December 12, 2009, 07:29:23 PM. I could so see the Oblivion/FO3 engine working with this plot and setting.
:bleeding:
Aw Jesus. Maybe if they hired all but a few of the Bethesda writers, fired all the animators and voice actors who worked on those two games, and made it PC only.
Quote from: Queequeg on January 28, 2010, 08:53:43 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 12, 2009, 07:29:23 PM. I could so see the Oblivion/FO3 engine working with this plot and setting.
:bleeding:
Aw Jesus. Maybe if they hired all but a few of the Bethesda writers, fired all the animators and voice actors who worked on those two games, and made it PC only.
I think it would be cheaper and provide a better product if they just gave up on the NMAtard audience completely.
I am not sure they could find, let alone hire, the designer who decided that Arcanum would work better if only random characters were voice-acted. And unless you find that person (or a person just as stupid) i don't think you could achieve the epic-fail-though-it-was-so-close-to-just-epic of the Troika games. You would have to go with the people who made the massively successful
Oblivion and
Fallout 3, even knowing that the Queequegs of the world hate games that are successful enough to be known and liked by non-nerds.
PC-only isn't an option, alas, any more than making it for Windows 3.1 is an option.
Quote
I am not sure they could find, let alone hire, the designer who decided that Arcanum would work better if only random characters were voice-acted.
Morrowind and Arcanum came out at about the same time, and neither had all the dialog recorded. The first RPG I remember doing that was KOTOR.
Quote
And unless you find that person (or a person just as stupid) i don't think you could achieve the epic-fail-though-it-was-so-close-to-just-epic of the Troika games.
Compare Oblivion's voice acting to Vampire: The Masqurade's. Or, even better, compare Fallout 3's to Dragon Age's, or GTA 4's. Liam Neeson sleepwalks through the damn thing, leaving Malcolm McDowell and Ron Pearlman to try to help us forget that everyone besides them sounds like extras from The Room. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnnTqFTHGuc&feature=related)
Not to mention the writing; while fitfully good, borderline awesome in one or two bits, the average character is just not very well drawn. Honestly, how many characters can you remember by name from Fallout 3? How many companions did you care about? Compare Star Paladin Cross with Alistar from Dragon Age. Or don't, as there really isn't a comparison.
Now, I know you are going to say that OMG IT IS DIFFERENT KIND OF RPG, but both Vampire and Arcanum had far more interesting NPCs.
Quote
You would have to go with the people who made the massively successful Oblivion and Fallout 3, even knowing that the Queequegs of the world hate games that are successful enough to be known and liked by non-nerds.
:lol:
Fallout 3 is probably the least popular game I play these days, as the others are all BioWare, GTA4 or Half-Life (though Fo3 probably outsold all of Paradox and the Total War series). Try again.
Quote from: Queequeg on January 29, 2010, 01:27:54 PM
Morrowind and Arcanum came out at about the same time, and neither had all the dialog recorded. The first RPG I remember doing that was KOTOR.
Morrowind had no dialogue recorded. In a lot of ways, that was much better than having random dialogue recorded. I think one of the Gothic games was the first to have all dialogue recorded.
QuoteCompare Oblivion's voice acting to Vampire: The Masqurade's. Or, even better, compare Fallout 3's to Dragon Age's, or GTA 4's. Liam Neeson sleepwalks through the damn thing, leaving Malcolm McDowell and Ron Pearlman to try to help us forget that everyone besides them sounds like extras from The Room. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnnTqFTHGuc&feature=related)
Freeform games have more dialogue difficulties than force-you-through-the-hoops games, obviously. I had no problems with Liam Neeson's voice acting. Not that this is relevant to any of my points.
QuoteNot to mention the writing; while fitfully good, borderline awesome in one or two bits, the average character is just not very well drawn. Honestly, how many characters can you remember by name from Fallout 3? How many companions did you care about? Compare Star Paladin Cross with Alistar from Dragon Age. Or don't, as there really isn't a comparison.
I didn't vcare about any companions in DA:O, so I am probably not the person to ask. Not that this is relevant to any of my points.
QuoteNow, I know you are going to say that OMG IT IS DIFFERENT KIND OF RPG, but both Vampire and Arcanum had far more interesting NPCs.
Arcanum had a lot of great NPCs. That is my point. It deserves to be re-done, and the best platform for re-doing it that I can see is the Fallout 3/Oblivion one. You haen't addressed that at all, except to say that you hate fallout 3 and Oblivion for reasons that are purely emotional (FIRE THEM ALL!!!ONEONEONE)
QuoteFallout 3 is probably the least popular game I play these days, as the others are all BioWare, GTA4 or Half-Life (though Fo3 probably outsold all of Paradox and the Total War series). Try again.
GTA (maybe, haven't played it), Half-life, and Bioware games could not re-do Arcanum, because Arcanum was sandbox. Sandbox games are by definition different. Try again.
Arcanum was a brilliant idea poorly realized. It deserves another incarnation, and the Bethesda game platform is the only current one that seems capable of handling it. Do you really disagree with this diagnosis?
Quote
Arcanum was a brilliant idea poorly realized. It deserves another incarnation, and the Bethesda game platform is the only current one that seems capable of handling it. Do you really disagree with this diagnosis?
I think Bethesda's quality has been spotty since Morrowind, possibly before. Fitfully inspired (Fallout 3's soundtrack, a lot of the artwork, the Alaska expansion), and fitfully retarded (almost all of Oblivion, the voice acting, almost all of the writing). I'd probably disagree; I expect far more from Fallout: New Vegas than I expect from Fallout 3, which just ended up frustrating me. Also, I think Fallout 3's engine is pretty dated at this point; the faces look terrible.
Quote
Freeform games have more dialogue difficulties than force-you-through-the-hoops games, obviously. I had no problems with Liam Neeson's voice acting. Not that this is relevant to any of my points.
Mine was a quality issue of Bethesda's product. Relevant for mine. I think Troika and Bethesda were almost mirror-image companies, in that Troika's games were often brilliant (Arcanum's writing, voice acting, non-combat game system) but buggy and or/lagging in one or two key respects (combat, graphics), while Bethesda's are often boring (all of Oblivion) but somewhat well constructed (stable). Between the two of them, you'd have a great studio; as is, I think BioWare's output is clearly superior to both.
Quote
I didn't vcare about any companions in DA:O, so I am probably not the person to ask. Not that this is relevant to any of my points.
I'm concerned that Bethesda would, frankly, bastardize it. I think they got a lot right in FO3, but the stuff they got wrong was extremely frustrating for me on a personal level. I'd much rather see Obsidian or another ex-Black Isle group do Arcanum.
Quote
Arcanum had a lot of great NPCs. That is my point. It deserves to be re-done, and the best platform for re-doing it that I can see is the Fallout 3/Oblivion one. You haen't addressed that at all, except to say that you hate fallout 3 and Oblivion for reasons that are purely emotional (FIRE THEM ALL!!!ONEONEONE)
Again; name characters in Fallout 3 or Oblivion that you liked and/or cared for, or memorable situations, or well-constructed characters. Virgil>Star Paladin Cross.
Fallout, in 1997, had much better, more interesting, far better voiced characters, a more interesting plot, and a more interesting aesthetic* than 2008's Fallout 3. The gameplay also allowed for far, far more non-combat solutions. I find that to be absurd, even though FO3's world had its good bits, and was obviously several times the size.
Now, I don't think FO3 or even Oblivion (there was a neat paint quest) were total misfires. That is a strawman argument. I just don't think they are the best out there, or that they totally measure up to Black Isle in its prime. I'd much, much rather have Troika with Bethesda's budget than Bethesda with Troika's budget and publisher issues.
Quote
GTA (maybe, haven't played it), Half-life, and Bioware games could not re-do Arcanum, because Arcanum was sandbox. Sandbox games are by definition different. Try again.
GTA4 is much more of a sandbox game than FO3, and is also just a much better game, with a lot better developed characters, plot and voice acting. I think BioWare could do an interesting Arcanum, though they'd have to beef up their non-combat solutions to problems.
I suggest you try Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines. Troika's last game, and probably their best all-around. I think it is pretty clearly superior to Oblivion in most respects, even though it is ultimately flawed. Tons of memorable characters and situations.
Though, obviously, you missed the point here; if I ever was some obscure-game loving fanatic, I stopped being one years ago. Except for Total War/EU mods. I'm geeky as fuck for that shit.
*Yes, I know FO3 is suppposed to be a sequel to FO1, but that doesn't change the fact that some things just looked silly. Like the Super-Mutants.
Quote from: grumbler on January 29, 2010, 07:19:49 PM
Morrowind had no dialogue recorded. In a lot of ways, that was much better than having random dialogue recorded. I think one of the Gothic games was the first to have all dialogue recorded.
Deus Ex was the first one I remember. I doubt it was the first.
Quote from: Razgovory on January 29, 2010, 08:52:34 PM
Deus Ex was the first one I remember. I doubt it was the first.
Knew I was forgetting something.
Quote from: grumbler on January 29, 2010, 07:19:49 PMGTA (maybe, haven't played it), Half-life, and Bioware games could not re-do Arcanum, because Arcanum was sandbox. Sandbox games are by definition different. Try again.
Arcanum was a brilliant idea poorly realized. It deserves another incarnation, and the Bethesda game platform is the only current one that seems capable of handling it. Do you really disagree with this diagnosis?
i disagree :whistle:
i think the bethesda design is great for a moderately sized region in scope, but it would fail to capture the vastness of an entire continent. i personally remember enjoying the distinct countries, making it far easier to immerse myself in the game's universe. i don't think you can recapture that on a 16x16 mile map, especially when it takes less than 10 minutes to physically walk through the whole continent. with how travel worked in arcanum, of course only the major/important cities were available to visit, but that didn't mean that there wasn't a whole lot of smaller villages lying around. you can't recreate that with something that looks like morrowind.
i think to remake arcanum today, one would have to find a more indie developer. not that console developers are bad, but i don't think any of them could redo arcanum. the latest fallout game by one, i think, proved that. not that it was bad, but it was different. it was a good game set in the same universe, but it was not fallout.
Anything is worth 5 euros. Its just a beer.
That's enough to buy a 12 pack of beer. But yeah, Arcanum is well worth it.
Quote from: LaCroix on January 30, 2010, 11:00:16 AM
i disagree :whistle:
i think the bethesda design is great for a moderately sized region in scope, but it would fail to capture the vastness of an entire continent. i personally remember enjoying the distinct countries, making it far easier to immerse myself in the game's universe. i don't think you can recapture that on a 16x16 mile map, especially when it takes less than 10 minutes to physically walk through the whole continent. with how travel worked in arcanum, of course only the major/important cities were available to visit, but that didn't mean that there wasn't a whole lot of smaller villages lying around. you can't recreate that with something that looks like morrowind.
i think to remake arcanum today, one would have to find a more indie developer. not that console developers are bad, but i don't think any of them could redo arcanum. the latest fallout game by one, i think, proved that. not that it was bad, but it was different. it was a good game set in the same universe, but it was not fallout.
There is nothing inherent in the Bethesda model that says you couldn't have a larger world. Most travel in Arcanum is fast-travel anyways (I am not sure you even CAN stumble across things just traveling on the Arcanum tactical map, and there was little in the game - or any game - more boring than having to walk far enough away from a major city center to activate the fast-travel mode), and the type of fast travel Arcanum used could be implemented pretty easily, and improved upon quite a bit.
In fact, IIRC, you
need to have the Arcanum style of fast travel, because you needed to be stopped from getting to the elf village too fast (and the method used was to create a pass that you had to be told about before you could use it).