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I'm thinking Ingram won it/McCoy lost it tonight.

Before todays games i was pulling for Gerhart, now wish Ingram the best

Ingram has looked great this year. Throw in the heart wrenching story about his Ex-NFL going to prison fpr trafficking dad and he makes for good entertainment.

Ingram would have 70% of his yards if he played in the Pac-10.

Gerhart.

Gonna join the chorus on Ingram. McCoy could wind up more deserving, but not before the NC game happens. 

Pretty sure it is going to be Ingram.  Good for him, Bama has never won one before.

Voted Gerhart but Ingram will probably win it.

Ken Dorsey.

OJ

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 06, 2009, 12:04:52 AM
McCoy could wind up more deserving, but not before the NC game happens.

McCoy imploded Quincy Carter-style tonight.  It's over Johnny. Over!

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2009, 12:32:45 AM
McCoy imploded Quincy Carter-style tonight.  It's over Johnny. Over!

He had one bad pass but that game wasn't his fault his offensive line was flat out HORRIBLE there was no running game and James Kirkendoll chipped in by dropping a few key passes.

But yeah he is not winning it.  But he was a warrior out there tonight he saved Texas' ass more than once.  That 3rd and ten pass from the one was clutch.

Not sure WTF was up with the last couple plays there though.

Quote from: Valmy on December 06, 2009, 12:35:27 AM
Not sure WTF was up with the last couple plays there though.

He was probably zoned out and tried to play it a little too cool... look at me, I'll just dance around for a few seconds and throw the ball out of bounds with a second left.

You have a timeout left, guy. Jesus fuck.

I think Spiller is the best player in the country, but I don't expect him to win, or even be in the top 3.

I would love to see Gerhart win it but I doubt he can; with McCoy's "poor" showing I expect it will be Ingram.

Gerhart gets the compelling white-guy-not-playing-quarterback feelgood votes, but when the only records you break are Tommy Vardell's, it's not enough of a resume.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2009, 08:05:39 AM
Gerhart gets the compelling white-guy-not-playing-quarterback feelgood votes, but when the only records you break are Tommy Vardell's, it's not enough of a resume.

Reminds me I should have included Shipley in the poll.

How much do you think the postgame crying hurt Tebow's chances in the regard?

Isn't Tebow supposed to be the greatest of all time, and the source of bandwagoners flocking to Florida (ala CountDeOrtiz)?  Why wouldn't he win?

Eh, he already won one anyway.

Quote from: Neil on December 06, 2009, 02:54:46 PM
Isn't Tebow supposed to be the greatest of all time, and the source of bandwagoners flocking to Florida (ala CountDeOrtiz)?  Why wouldn't he win?

Of the 3 seasons he has started, stastically this has been his worst. Ironically, the year he won(2007), the team had a far worse season than last year or this year.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 06, 2009, 08:05:39 AM
Gerhart gets the compelling white-guy-not-playing-quarterback feelgood votes, but when the only records you break are Tommy Vardell's, it's not enough of a resume.

QuoteDuring the games Saturday I noticed something while participating in ESPN.com's Virtual Pressbox: A lot of college football fans are walking around in the dark.

We're here to turn on the light.

Today's blubbering from the darkness: "The Pac-10 doesn't play defense!"

Hey, look, trash talk is fun. The great thing about it is it doesn't have to be correct -- it just has to be annoying.

For example: "Alabama is terrible. If the Crimson Tide played in the Pac-10, it would finish, er, sixth. No, seventh!"

That's silly.

And about as accurate as the myth of poor Pac-10 defense.

Now, some folks like it in the dark. Ignorance is comforting. So those folks shouldn't read further.

Warning! Facts ahead!

On Sept. 20, five Pac-10 defenses ranked among the nation's top-25.

Why is that date important? Because at that point, only five of 30 total nonconference games remained on the schedule.

So those defensive numbers were almost entirely based on Pac-10 defenses playing against non-Pac-10 offenses.

At the end of the regular season, only two Pac-10 defenses ranked among the top-25 -- Arizona State (12) and Arizona (21).

Why the slip? Well, the most obvious conclusion is those Pac-10 defenses were more challenged in conference play.

Or you can look inside the box scores.

LSU ranked 28th in the nation in total defense this year, giving up 327 yards per game. But at Washington, LSU yielded 487 yards.

The Huskies offense averaged 355 yards per game in Pac-10 play.

LSU, in fact, knows all about Pac-10 offenses.

In 2004, Oregon State outgained LSU 315 yards to 302 in a 22-21 defeat. That Tigers defense ended up ranked third in the nation, surrendering 257 yards per game.

In 2005, LSU also finished third in the nation in total defense, giving up 267 yards per game. But it was outgained 560-434 in a win at Arizona State.

Five hundred and sixty yards! The Sun Devils finished 7-5 that season and averaged "only" 519 yards per game.

This year, Tennessee's defense shut down UCLA in a 19-15 defeat in Knoxville, holding the Bruins to just 186 total yards. But the Bruins, owners of the Pac-10's eighth-ranked offense (339 yards per game), held the Vols to 208 yards. Tennessee averaged 395 yards per game.

Georgia outgained Arizona State 334 yards to 204 -- the Sun Devils had no answer for receiver A.J. Green, who accounted for 153 of those yards -- but it's hard to believe Bulldogs fans walked away from that 20-17 win not respecting the Sun Devils defense.

USC outgained Ohio State 313 to 262. The Buckeyes averaged 365 on offense and 262 on defense.

Iowa outgained Arizona 338-253, the Hawkeyes eclipsing both their average offensive (331 yards) and defensive (287) numbers, but it's fair to at least note that Nick Foles didn't start at quarterback that afternoon in Iowa City.

Central Michigan averaged 419 yards this season. It gained 182 at Arizona. Kansas State averaged 349 yards on offense; it got 268 at UCLA.

This isn't intended to proclaim the Pac-10 the dominant defensive conference. It's just to make sure that everyone knows that when gadflies bark, "The Pac-10 doesn't play defense!" said individuals don't know what they are talking about.

And there are real-world issues with this.

The "no defense" silliness is being raised to hurt Stanford running back Toby Gerhart's Heisman Trophy chances, particularly vs. Alabama running back Mark Ingram.

Ingram is a great back. He's topped my ESPN.com weekly Heisman vote much of the year. If he wins the trophy, he's deserving.

But he has not faced the defensive competition that Gerhart has.

That's not my opinion. It's a statistical fact.

The Pac-10 features six rushing defenses ranked among the top-42 in the nation, despite the conference boasting five backs who eclipsed 1,000 yards, none of whom are named Jahvid Best, who finished with 867 yards in eight-plus games.

Gerhart faced all six of those run defenses and still finished the season averaging 145 yards per game.

The SEC features four rushing defenses ranked among the top-45 in the nation. Just four -- of 12, remember -- teams featured 1,000-yard rushers, though it beats the hell out of me why Ole Miss' Dexter McCluster (985 yards) didn't get more touches.

Ingram faced two of those run defenses. Three, if you toss in South Carolina's No. 46 run defense. Ingram averaged 119 yards per game.

Of course, these bothersome numbers and facts won't sit well with some. That's fine. The intention here isn't to end the trash talk.

It's only to makes sure that everyone knows that it's trash.

Actually the more I look around I think Suh and Gerhart are going to do better than people think.  This might be really close and Ingram might not win it after all.  Maybe people still remember his no-show against Auburn.

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 06, 2009, 08:37:34 AM
Reminds me I should have included Shipley in the poll.

I really hope nobody holds being white for or against Ship, that dude is as fast and athletic a wide out as Texas has ever had.  I have not seen a dude turn without slowing down like that since...oh...actually I can't remember anybody running quite like he does.  There is a reason he smashed all of Roy Williams records.

But he won't win the Heisman...I hope he wins the one for top WR though.

Quote from: Valmy on December 07, 2009, 09:24:17 PM
Actually the more I look around I think Suh and Gerhart are going to do better than people think.  This might be really close and Ingram might not win it after all.  Maybe people still remember his no-show against Auburn.

Unfortunately, because he's going to play for the National Championship, he'll win it.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 07, 2009, 09:29:50 PM
Unfortunately, because he's going to play for the National Championship, he'll win it.

That is what I expected I am a little surprise to see the buzz around Suh and Gerhart to be honest.  We will see if it is just smoke though.

I'm really surprised Spiller didn't get an invite.  That Big12 title game on national TV was a huge bonus for Suh.  He was the single most dominating force on the field.  I hadn't heard of him until that game.  Not sure whether he played like that all season, but if he was anything remotely close, he deserves to win.  Completely dominant on the D-Line.

Ndamukong Suh.  Fuck offensive players. :menace:

BCS still a joke I see. Texas? Really?

I'd like to see a defensive player win the Heisman.

They are other players on the field then QBs & RBs.

Quote from: Grey Fox on December 08, 2009, 07:51:07 AM
I'd like to see a defensive player win the Heisman.

They are other players on the field then QBs & RBs.

It has happened.

According to Wiki, in 1997. I think it's time to do it again.

Quote from: Stonewall on December 08, 2009, 12:35:17 AM
I hadn't heard of him until that game.

Seriously?  He has been a Heisman candidate all year.  He was the Big XII player of the year.  He was going to New York anyway but now he might actually have a chance.

Edit: Just to be clear he was voted player of the year BEFORE the Big XII title game.

Quote from: Judas Iscariot on December 08, 2009, 02:53:00 AM
Ndamukong Suh.  Fuck offensive players. :menace:

I asked before and was told he is from Oregon.

Anyone know his ethnicity, the country of origin of his parents?

Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 08, 2009, 09:28:50 AM
Anyone know his ethnicity, the country of origin of his parents?

His Mother is from Jamaica, his father is from Cameroun.  Ndamukong means 'House of Spears' in the Ngema language.

Jamaica

Quote from: Valmy on December 08, 2009, 09:30:52 AM
His Mother is from Jamaica, his father is from Cameroun.  Ndamukong means 'House of Spears' in the Ngema language.

Thanks.

Brown Wolf: Mare See

Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 08, 2009, 09:28:50 AM

Quote from: Judas Iscariot on December 08, 2009, 02:53:00 AM
Ndamukong Suh.  Fuck offensive players. :menace:

I asked before and was told he is from Oregon.

Fucking traitor.  I hope he falls into an open manhole while in NYC.

How long before every single defensive lineman in the NFL is an African?

Quote from: sbr on December 08, 2009, 10:48:57 AM
Fucking traitor.  I hope he falls into an open manhole while in NYC.

Yeah he and Troy Polamalu...Oregon natives are disloyal and contemptible traitors.

Fortunately good Texans like LaMichael James and Jacquizz Rogers are eager to fill in and lead your flagship Universities to glory.

Quote from: Valmy on December 08, 2009, 10:58:38 AM

Quote from: sbr on December 08, 2009, 10:48:57 AM
Fucking traitor.  I hope he falls into an open manhole while in NYC.

Yeah he and Troy Polamalu...Oregon natives are disloyal and contemptible traitors.

Fortunately good Texans like LaMichael James and Jacquizz Rogers are eager to fill in and lead your flagship Universities to glory.

You can afford to lose a couple, Texas is full to the brim with 5 star recruits.  Oregon gets one or two a decade.

Quote from: sbr on December 08, 2009, 11:06:36 AM
You can afford to lose a couple, Texas is full to the brim with 5 star recruits.  Oregon gets one or two a decade.

Right which creates the following ridiculous scenario every. single. game. Texas plays:  "I grew up a Texas fan but they DIDN'T RECRUIT ME!!111  WAAAH!  NOW I SHALL HAVE MY REVENGE".

Yeah?  Just like those two guys last week?

Then ESPN gets the story and every time one of these guys makes a play we get 'He is showing Texas just what they missed by not recruiting him!'

Already the Alabama QB has started it.  It would be nice to play just one game without somebody on the other team not out for revenge.

Quote from: Valmy on December 08, 2009, 11:12:21 AM

Quote from: sbr on December 08, 2009, 11:06:36 AM
You can afford to lose a couple, Texas is full to the brim with 5 star recruits.  Oregon gets one or two a decade.

Right which creates the following ridiculous scenario every. single. game. Texas plays:  "I grew up a Texas fan but they DIDN'T RECRUIT ME!!111  WAAAH!  NOW I SHALL HAVE MY REVENGE".

Yeah?  Just like those two guys last week?

Then ESPN gets the story and every time one of these guys makes a play we get 'He is showing Texas just what they missed by not recruiting him!'

Already the Alabama QB has started it.  It would be nice to play just one game without somebody on the other team not out for revenge.

Wow I never realized you guys had it so rough.  Almost makes the 4 national titles and 31 conference championships not worth it, huh?

As much as I hate his name: Colt McCoy.

Quote from: sbr on December 08, 2009, 11:16:51 AM
Wow I never realized you guys had it so rough.  Almost makes the 4 national titles and 31 conference championships not worth it, huh?

That certainly eases the pain of having the hear the exact same personal interest story over and over and over (and over and over and over) every week for thirty years yes :D

Quote from: derspiess on December 08, 2009, 11:17:22 AM
As much as I hate his name: Colt McCoy.

How can you hate that name?  That is the greatest Texas Quarterback name evah!

Colt won't win it though.  It is a three way race and I think Ingram comes out on top but it will be close.  Colt will be 4th and Tebow 5th.

Quote from: Valmy on December 08, 2009, 11:18:33 AM

Quote from: sbr on December 08, 2009, 11:16:51 AM
Wow I never realized you guys had it so rough.  Almost makes the 4 national titles and 31 conference championships not worth it, huh?

That certainly eases the pain of having the hear the exact same personal interest story over and over and over (and over and over and over) every week for thirty years yes :D

I would trade you spots in a heart beat. :D

Quote from: sbr on December 08, 2009, 11:23:30 AM
I would trade you spots in a heart beat. :D

Your spot isn't so bad.  You have California next door and USC cannot take everybody.

Quote from: Valmy on December 08, 2009, 11:19:19 AM

Quote from: derspiess on December 08, 2009, 11:17:22 AM
As much as I hate his name: Colt McCoy.

How can you hate that name?  That is the greatest Texas Quarterback name evah!

Colt won't win it though.  It is a three way race and I think Ingram comes out on top but it will be close.  Colt will be 4th and Tebow 5th.

It is a great name, talk about being born into a position.

I don't think Su will finish ahead of McCoy; Colt was the front runner before Saturday I can't imagine he would fall that far.  He played poorly but still got the team into position to get the win.

Quote from: sbr on December 08, 2009, 11:26:43 AM
I don't think Su will finish ahead of McCoy; Colt was the front runner before Saturday I can't imagine he would fall that far.  He played poorly but still got the team into position to get the win.

I think he actually played one of his gutsiest games.  Dude got the heck beat out of him but never gave up and kept making plays even after his recievers were dropping his passes, his linemen were getting whipped on every play.  It reminded me of a game Dave Krieg played against Kansas City waaaaay back in the day when he led the Seahawks to victory despite being sacked 9 times.

But the Heisman is a beauty contest where stats and stats accumulated on TV most recently most important.  If you flipped Ingram's Florida game with his Auburn game he wouldn't win it even though his season stats would be the same.  It is just how it goes.

Quote from: Valmy on December 08, 2009, 03:16:14 PM
st where stats and stats accumulated on TV most recently most important.  If you flipped Ingram's Florida game with his Auburn game he wouldn't win it even though his season stats would be the same.  It is just how it goes.

I think that this is true, and it is why I give the award no cred.

Quote from: grumbler on December 08, 2009, 08:00:37 AM

Quote from: Grey Fox on December 08, 2009, 07:51:07 AM
I'd like to see a defensive player win the Heisman.

They are other players on the field then QBs & RBs.

It has happened.

Meh, kind of.  Woodson pimped himself out for kick returns and other more highlight reel work in addition to his purely defensive resume.