Because illness is such a huge deal these days to many people, I'm curious to know how Languish handles illness. How sick do you have to be in order for you to stay home from work or school?
Personally, I hate staying home from work unless it is impossible to do my job due to illness. That being said, I don't think it's fair to expect others to go to work with a fever or serious head cold, so what I expect of others is much lower than what I expect of myself.
How about you guys?
QuotePersonally, I hate staying home from work unless it is impossible to do my job due to illness.
Thank you for giving everybody else the flu. Dick.
If I'm too sick to be productive at work, I stay home. There is no point in wallowing in your misery at work. The good thing is that my work has no true sick days, we just get more personal days in exchange, so that should avoid situations where your sickness is second-guessed by your bosses.
Either too sick to work or too contagious to wander around the office are enough.
An exception is taking medication or suffering symptoms that make driving a hazard. That alone makes me stay at home.
I hate idiots who go to work while sick and then end up giving the entire office the disease.
But the work has to get done, right? And who else will do it while the person is sick?
What's interesting is that I had a supervisor who claimed to feel the same way but gave me the silent treatment for days if I called in sick. She didn't like answering the phones or helping out, and when I wasn't there, she had no choice. So while she said to stay home when we were sick, she meant don't be sick.
And she was by no means alone. This was the case at several jobs I've worked at.
I guess it also depends on how needed you are right at that moment. Obviously if you have three important meetings on that day, you'll just have to come no matter what.
Then work from home or arrange someone to replace you or postpone the meeting etc. The "I will come to work looking like death and sneeze at everyone" is the easy solution, and it is also a cretin's solution.
Quote from: Martinus on December 01, 2009, 07:25:47 PM
Then work from home or arrange someone to replace you or postpone the meeting etc. The "I will come to work looking like death and sneeze at everyone" is the easy solution, and it is also a cretin's solution.
There is nothing easy about coming to work looking like death.
Yes, I have a tendency to go in because my work discourages working from home (although we've many employees who always work remotely). That said, I also am typically low on sick days if I can manage a day where I can escape from doing work.
Well, my work discourages that too, as most do. That's why I said it isn't easy, but it is the sensible thing to do - both to yourself and to others.
Doing the stupid thing because you are too cowardly to do the right thing or too lazy to come up with a satisfactory alternative solution is still stupid.
For the record, I am not saying you should call in sick whenever you sneeze. Nor I am saying that if you are sick, you should just call in sick, and turn off your phone and go to bed ignoring the outside world.
Most likely, you will have to spend a lot of your time on the phone or e-mail anyway, making sure everyone is happy, delegating your work to your coworkers, explaining the situation to the boss etc. So most people just figure out they can't be arsed and go to work sick instead - but that's dumb and lazy.
Now, if you put an effort into it, your boss will understand unless he or she is a complete idiot - but then you wouldn't want to work for one that is.
In short: nobody is irreplaceable (we have a saying in Polish that cemeteries are full of irreplaceable people) and your work will not collapse if you are not there for a few days.
I will go with those who say that one should stay home unless "productivity is near zero or one could infect fellow workers." Having said that, I have always loved my jobs, enjoy extremely good health, and can count the total number of sick days I have taken in my life on one hand.
What pisses me off is that I don't take any of the five "personal days" that I have coming to me each year. Each year, I determine that I will take them, but I never do, because there is always a reason why my students will "suffer" if I am not there to teach that lesson. Better planning on my part would eliminate this concern, but I always out that off. It isn't like I get any gratitude from my bosses for not taking sick days or personal days.
Quote from: grumbler on December 01, 2009, 07:52:56 PM
I will go with those who say that one should stay home unless "productivity is near zero or one could infect fellow workers." Having said that, I have always loved my jobs, enjoy extremely good health, and can count the total number of sick days I have taken in my life on one hand.
What pisses me off is that I don't take any of the five "personal days" that I have coming to me each year. Each year, I determine that I will take them, but I never do, because there is always a reason why my students will "suffer" if I am not there to teach that lesson. Better planning on my part would eliminate this concern, but I always out that off. It isn't like I get any gratitude from my bosses for not taking sick days or personal days.
Sounds like you are a workaholic.
Not all jobs can be done from home. In fact, until my current position, none of my jobs could be done from home, and while others could do it, most often it required calling someone in to take the shift. If you didn't find someone, you HAD to come in, period. It was the policy of the place. (And this was when I worked for a hospital, too. :) )
So it's a bit easier to say that one should sacrifice by staying home, but that isn't always an option.
Quote from: Martinus on December 01, 2009, 07:54:13 PM
Sounds like you are a workaholic.
Not really, as i understand workaholicism. I just really, genuinely enjoy going to work each day. Every day, I see at least one student come to some sudden realization that they had never considered before. That's kind of intoxicating, so I want to see it tomorrow, too.
If that is workoholicism, I plead guilty. It is the most rewarding feeling outside of sex, as far as I am concerned.
I would only take a sick day if I simply could not be productive to a reasonable degree.
However, I can work from home quite easily so even if I could drag myself to the office, why bother? I can do my work from bed if needs be.
Quote from: Martinus on December 01, 2009, 07:29:55 PM
Doing the stupid thing because you are too cowardly to do the right thing or too lazy to come up with a satisfactory alternative solution is still stupid.
Why would I take a sick day if I'm going to be working? Why would I work from home if I know it will reflect negatively on me?
Quote from: grumbler on December 01, 2009, 08:00:51 PM
It is the most rewarding feeling outside of sex, as far as I am concerned.
Sad.
If I'm contagious, I stay home.
If not but I am feeling bad, I have a way of knowing whether or not I will be able to be effective at work: I get up and take a shower and get dressed. After that, I sometimes feel good enough to work. If I am still feeling crappy enough to need to stay home/immobile/whatever after having woken up to that point and past the normal feeling like death in the morning stage, then I stay home.
I stay home when I'm well.
Quote from: Ed Anger on December 01, 2009, 08:14:13 PM
I stay home when I'm well.
Indeed. In the Navy, we used to say "never waste a sick day on a day you are too ill to enjoy it."
Its all down to mood for me.
Sometimes I'm quite ill but still want to go, othertimes I'm not at all too ill and don't at all feel like it. I guess being mental is sort of being ill but...meh.
Quote from: Martinus on December 01, 2009, 06:48:35 PM
I hate idiots who go to work while sick and then end up giving the entire office the disease and complain when everyone else is out sick.
I fixed that for you!
Our Union gives us a ton of sick, vacation, personal, and other assorted days off. So, I never use my sick days because they can be used to count towards retirement.
Never missed a day on tv/film job from sickness, injury though is different matter.
Does that mean you'd rather fuck one of your students than enlighten them, grumbler?
Quote from: Martinus on December 01, 2009, 06:48:35 PM
I hate idiots who go to work while sick and then end up giving the entire office the disease.
Is that how you got Herpes?
Quote from: grumbler on December 01, 2009, 08:00:51 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 01, 2009, 07:54:13 PM
Sounds like you are a workaholic.
Not really, as i understand workaholicism. I just really, genuinely enjoy going to work each day. Every day, I see at least one student come to some sudden realization that they had never considered before. That's kind of intoxicating, so I want to see it tomorrow, too.
If that is workoholicism, I plead guilty. It is the most rewarding feeling outside of sex, as far as I am concerned.
What's the most rewarding feeling inside sex?
Quote from: merithyn on December 01, 2009, 06:18:01 PM
Because illness is such a huge deal these days to many people, I'm curious to know how Languish handles illness. How sick do you have to be in order for you to stay home from work or school?
I have 5 sick days guarenteed and I make a point to take them all. Especially considering the fuckers who pay me never give any raises or bonuses. I call most of them 'mental health' sick days. Next monday will be one such - it's the last I have for this year. ^_^
G.
Quote from: Iormlund on December 01, 2009, 06:33:07 PM
Either too sick to work or too contagious to wander around the office are enough.
An exception is taking medication or suffering symptoms that make driving a hazard. That alone makes me stay at home.
Pretty much the same here.
Depends entirely on what I'm doing in a day.
If I'm in court (in particular if I'm scheduled to do a trial), I'd better be near death to miss work.
If I'm just in the office? Meh, I'll stay home with little more than sniffles. Not that I often do, but I have once or twice.
Quote from: Jaron on December 01, 2009, 08:59:07 PM
Does that mean you'd rather fuck one of your students than enlighten them, grumbler?
four point two.
Quote from: Razgovory on December 01, 2009, 09:03:06 PM
What's the most rewarding feeling inside sex?
If you have to ask, you cannot understand the answer. :(
For the record, I went home early today for a nasty head cold, and tomorrow will be my first sick day in years. First time I've had the sniffles in ages.
Rather annoying, as I was beginning to enjoy collecting my little "perfect attendance" pins.
Anyway, I find the whole "sick days per year" and "calling in sick" system pretty strange and unfair. It's funny how so many people seem to take it for granted when talking about this thing, whereas it is so completely different here, in terms of how it works.
Unless I have diarrhea or fever I usually go to the office. Even if I get only one hour productive work done it beats having to clean up the mile high piles of stuff to do if I miss days at work. Which is also why I usually limit vacations to a day or two.
Quote from: Syt on December 02, 2009, 02:34:38 AM
Unless I have diarrhea or fever I usually go to the office. Even if I get only one hour productive work done it beats having to clean up the mile high piles of stuff to do if I miss days at work. Which is also why I usually limit vacations to a day or two.
Get. A. New. Job.
I used to take a week or two off each year, but then.......I never really liked paid employment. In my new role I have to ask for help about one day every two years or so.
My wife, who has a well-developed sense of duty, has had fewer than 5 days off in total in the past 20 years.
My father would only drink heavily when the next day was a working day, "what's the point of having a hangover on a day off?" :D
Quote from: Barrister on December 02, 2009, 02:43:37 AM
Get. A. New. Job.
Anecdotal evidence suggests that it ain't much better elsewhere these days.
Quote from: Syt on December 02, 2009, 03:09:07 AM
Quote from: Barrister on December 02, 2009, 02:43:37 AM
Get. A. New. Job.
Anecdotal evidence suggests that it ain't much better elsewhere these days.
Anecdotal evidence from you suggests the contrary.
I'm home with the flu. First time I called in sick this year, so I'm not feeling guilty or anything.
I share an office with four people, no point in getting them all infected.
When I feel sick enough that I Know I'll spend the day just wasting tissues. Also the work can wait. If it can't, well I have a boss, that's his job to find someone to take care of it.
I have the week of, however here mid week am I starting have flu symptoms, bugger...
Staying home sick for a week, with the fly, quite ok. extending you week of by calling in sick, big no no. So matter how sick I am, do I have to show up Monday morning at work...
For the record, Poland appears to have a completely different system for "sick days" than the US - it's one I'd consider more "fair" (in that it does not penalize people with relatively poor health) but less "free" (in that it limits the person's ability to call in sick).
Effectively, out of our annual holiday allowance (which is between 18 and 26 working days, depending on the tenure and some other factors), we have 4 "immediate holiday" days which we can use to "call in sick" the way Americans do - i.e. you can just call in the morning and say you are not coming to work on that day, for whatever reason. And when you do, you can do whatever you want - it's essentially a normal holiday.
Now, when you are actually sick, the way it works, you go to your GP and he then examines you and based on the results, writes you a medical statement saying that you are unable to work for an X number of days as a result of your disease. He also states on it whether you are required to stay home, stay in bed, walk etc. On the basis of it, you are free not to work but have to follow the instructions or you may be fired (so if you were told by the doctor you have to stay in bed but someone sees you in a theatre, you can get fired, etc.) When you are on a sick leave like this, you are being paid by social security and not your employer, but you retain your right to be paid (i.e. your social security company - membership in one is obligatory - is paying you the same amount you would get from your employer).
Now, you cannot be fired while you are on a sick leave, however your employer can terminate the employment if the duration of sick leave in a given year is particularly long (but it is very long 6-9 months depending on circumstances), since it means you are pretty much unable to work at all. Also, as already stated, you can be fired for abusing the system.
I'll call in sick if I feel lousy enough to where I know I can't be productive, and/or I'll just feel worse as the day goes on, which may likely lengthen my illness. So I'll stay home and rest. But I don't call in sick very often, and pretty much only when feeling lousy, not for a mental health type day. I have generous vacation time, and my work place is pretty good about sick days.
Quote from: Martinus on December 02, 2009, 08:13:48 AM
For the record, Poland appears to have a completely different system for "sick days" than the US - it's one I'd consider more "fair" (in that it does not penalize people with relatively poor health) but less "free" (in that it limits the person's ability to call in sick).
Effectively, out of our annual holiday allowance (which is between 18 and 26 working days, depending on the tenure and some other factors), we have 4 "immediate holiday" days which we can use to "call in sick" the way Americans do - i.e. you can just call in the morning and say you are not coming to work on that day, for whatever reason. And when you do, you can do whatever you want - it's essentially a normal holiday.
Now, when you are actually sick, the way it works, you go to your GP and he then examines you and based on the results, writes you a medical statement saying that you are unable to work for an X number of days as a result of your disease. He also states on it whether you are required to stay home, stay in bed, walk etc. On the basis of it, you are free not to work but have to follow the instructions or you may be fired (so if you were told by the doctor you have to stay in bed but someone sees you in a theatre, you can get fired, etc.) When you are on a sick leave like this, you are being paid by social security and not your employer, but you retain your right to be paid (i.e. your social security company - membership in one is obligatory - is paying you the same amount you would get from your employer).
Now, you cannot be fired while you are on a sick leave, however your employer can terminate the employment if the duration of sick leave in a given year is particularly long (but it is very long 6-9 months depending on circumstances), since it means you are pretty much unable to work at all. Also, as already stated, you can be fired for abusing the system.
We do have a similar system, most elementary schools use it. Often times you don't even need to see a doctor, a note from the parent suffices.
I'd love to be able to fire Mart.
Quote from: Martinus on December 02, 2009, 08:13:48 AM
For the record, Poland appears to have a completely different system for "sick days" than the US - it's one I'd consider more "fair" (in that it does not penalize people with relatively poor health) but less "free" (in that it limits the person's ability to call in sick).
Effectively, out of our annual holiday allowance (which is between 18 and 26 working days, depending on the tenure and some other factors), we have 4 "immediate holiday" days which we can use to "call in sick" the way Americans do - i.e. you can just call in the morning and say you are not coming to work on that day, for whatever reason. And when you do, you can do whatever you want - it's essentially a normal holiday.
Now, when you are actually sick, the way it works, you go to your GP and he then examines you and based on the results, writes you a medical statement saying that you are unable to work for an X number of days as a result of your disease. He also states on it whether you are required to stay home, stay in bed, walk etc. On the basis of it, you are free not to work but have to follow the instructions or you may be fired (so if you were told by the doctor you have to stay in bed but someone sees you in a theatre, you can get fired, etc.) When you are on a sick leave like this, you are being paid by social security and not your employer, but you retain your right to be paid (i.e. your social security company - membership in one is obligatory - is paying you the same amount you would get from your employer).
Now, you cannot be fired while you are on a sick leave, however your employer can terminate the employment if the duration of sick leave in a given year is particularly long (but it is very long 6-9 months depending on circumstances), since it means you are pretty much unable to work at all. Also, as already stated, you can be fired for abusing the system.
For the record, the US does not have a system, so what you describe is more different because it
is a system than it is in the details of how it works. The closest the US has is "Worker's Compensation" for long-term illness/disability, and that pays only 60% of the regular wage. All else is subject to negotiations between employer and employee.
Quote from: grumbler on December 02, 2009, 11:41:20 AMFor the record, the US does not have a system, so what you describe is more different because it is a system than it is in the details of how it works. The closest the US has is "Worker's Compensation" for long-term illness/disability, and that pays only 60% of the regular wage. All else is subject to negotiations between employer and employee.
Huh. I though he was talking about his workplace's rules. If indeed they have something like that set up
for the whole country--well that's odd.
Is it though? 20 years ago Poland was running on a planned economy model, wasn't it?
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 02, 2009, 02:56:51 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 02, 2009, 11:41:20 AMFor the record, the US does not have a system, so what you describe is more different because it is a system than it is in the details of how it works. The closest the US has is "Worker's Compensation" for long-term illness/disability, and that pays only 60% of the regular wage. All else is subject to negotiations between employer and employee.
Huh. I though he was talking about his workplace's rules. If indeed they have something like that set up for the whole country--well that's odd.
In Germany and Austria there's something called "Entgeltfortzahlungsgesetz" (law about continued payment of salary) that regulates how long an employee is entitled to receive full pay/reduced pay in case of illness. In Germany it's 6 weeks within 1 year if the same illness over and over (e.g. back issues), unless there's at least a six month gap between two episodes.
At my workplace I can call in sick for a maximum of three calendar days in a row with doctor's certificate.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 02, 2009, 02:56:51 PM
Huh. I though he was talking about his workplace's rules. If indeed they have something like that set up for the whole country--well that's odd.
:lol:
Not odd at all. We do something similar in here. It is something I'm sadly very familiar with as I spent 6 months on sick leave last year. In theory I had to visit my GP every week to extend the leave (unless in hospital). In practice as long as I didn't present the next slip earlier than stipulated I only had to go every two weeks. The first 3 days are not covered, then you get 60%, after some time 75%. Eventually I started receiving more money than I make normally (I noticed it first after surgery which may have triggered it). I guess it was due to some kind of insurance my employer has.
Some employers offer better conditions. For example my parents receive 100% salary while sick from the very first day.
Quote from: merithyn on December 01, 2009, 06:18:01 PM
Because illness is such a huge deal these days to many people, I'm curious to know how Languish handles illness. How sick do you have to be in order for you to stay home from work or school?
If you can call in you can come in.
I have ten illness days per year, and when I was hired my bosses told me that if I felt ill and thought I wouldn't be productive, I was better to stay home and rest. It's a reasonable threshold, and we tend to use our days rather liberally, as long as we don't abuse (like doing it every week or so). When I don't come to work, it's because I feel really, really shitty, otherwise I just come, even if it means taking a half-day off instead.
And they mean it. Once I worked overtime like mad and, a Thursday afternoon, one of my Veeps came to my desk and "forcibly" evicted me from my office to go back home and take the week off. And to be sure I wouldn't argue, she said it was an order. So I obeyed and went back home to sleep.
Also, I was never asked a medical paper, even once.
Over here, the first three days of the illness are paid by the company (this can be used more than once per year, as your health dictates).
More than that, and you need to get medical leave. Which can last indefinitely, depending on the doctors' opinions. During that time, you collect 65% of your base salary from the State, no taxes.
Quote from: merithyn on December 01, 2009, 06:18:01 PM
Because illness is such a huge deal these days to many people, I'm curious to know how Languish handles illness. How sick do you have to be in order for you to stay home from work or school?
Now, Merithyn, until last year my reply would be "until I become delirious" (which kinda happened. One day I stopped seeing my office and saw a Cathedral instead, with flying codexes around me. Another time I thought I was working properly for some time, until my eyes suddenly straightened and I saw that on my monitor was a page totally filled with "dfkhdkjhsakjhdkjhfs" text). THEN I knew I had to take a day off.
But today we have a new factor: SWINE FLU.
This shit is contagious as Hell, and it hit us hard. The State has pretty much demanded all people who have flu symptoms to call the State Health Line (800 24 24 24) and if the condition is similar to H1N1, they are required to stay at home for a week.
Unfortunately, in my workplace the "work a lot" mindset is also combined with the "utterly retarded" trait, so the imbeciles who got the H1N1 came to work... needless to say, the virus spread like wildfire, helped by a lot of people coughing and sneezing all over the place.
Unfortunately for them, the H1N1 isn't a regular flu, so after a day spent spreading the disease, they get several days of suffering at home. We got decimated, and a LOT of our staff is now on sick leave. A good chunk of the remainder is basically coughing themselves to death at their desks, trying to get enought strength to move around. Several work with their coats on, even tough we have our air conditioned set to high temperatures. We have four confirmed H1N1 cases and another dozen absentees who are currently sick for more than three days but don't want to take the test. I've never seen a flu hit so hard in my whole career.
I have been yelling at these retards who come to work to go home for nearly a week now, and while most obey, some think it kinda shows dedication to come to work anyway. And the result is even more staff severely sick within 24 hours. Even the managers who tend to keep working no matter what are falling like flies to this and actually taking sick days, something I very rarely saw one of them do, let alone three of them in short succession, leaving them totally wrecked for most of the duration.
(I'm freezing the wages of those idiots who don't follow my instructions. Dedication my ass)
The positive side is that we've had no fatalities so far. As for me, I have been trying to stay as clear as possible from everyone and made *very* clear I want no coughing on me (resulting in these idiots coughing into their sleeves when they're near me).
That said, the Air conditioners do make the air go around, and I couldn't keep away from a shitload of coughers/sneezers at all time for the whole week, so I suspect I have it, too. Since last Saturday I have to relieve myself 3-4 times a day (never had this), often feel light pain in my body, my temperature is steady at 37ยบ and I lost all my sex drive (usually an indication that my body is sick and needs energies elsewhere).
Still, it's bearable. They say the swine flu hits everyone in a different way. If what I have is the H1N1, then it acts like a strong laxative to my body. One can say it literally made me shit myself.
Quote from: Barrister on December 02, 2009, 03:11:41 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 02, 2009, 03:09:07 AM
Quote from: Barrister on December 02, 2009, 02:43:37 AM
Get. A. New. Job.
Anecdotal evidence suggests that it ain't much better elsewhere these days.
Anecdotal evidence from you suggests the contrary.
I'm also a negativist lazy whiny bitch. Though psychologist friends have suggested I should have checked out if I have a mild to medium form of bipolar disorder.