;)
http://www.cracked.com/article/195_7-things-good-parents-do-that-screw-kids-up-life/
#7.Giving Your Kids a Creative Name
You'd Think...
You want your kid to be special. There are a few million Daves, Bobs and Johns running around NOT being totally awesome and obviously it's all because of their boring-ass names. So you decide to name your son something original, like Malcolm, Ivan or Dicksmash McIroncock.
But in Reality...
You have just sent your flesh and blood straight into the middle of a massive man-rape in the prison shower. According to a study at the Shippensburg University, kids growing up with ordinary, popular names have a higher chance to become law abiding citizens, while all the unusually named ones should start deciding what state they want to commit their first felony in (friendly tip, skip Texas). The study lists the top 10 bad boy names in America as: Alec, Ernest, Garland, Ivan, Kareem, Luke, Malcolm, Preston, Tyrell and Walter, which we must point out are not the names of any serial killer or presidential assassin that has ever existed, so we're assuming the research is skewed in a certain direction.
The theory is that the additional attention garnered by odd and unusual names can cause peer ridicule and discrimination in the workforce, which tends to result in a few thousand Alecs and Prestons stealing toilet paper from the gas station. So do your kid a favor and give him a typical law-abiding, mentally stable name, like Michael.
OK, how about "Frank?"
#6.Teaching Them To Be Themselves
You'd Think...
Peer pressure is the thing that makes kids smoke cigarettes, do drugs and read pornographic magazines by the time they reach middle school. As countless PSAs and after-school specials taught us, we must teach our kids to be themselves and never give two halves of a fuck about what their "friends" think.
But in Reality...
Remember that smelly kid in school, who never washed his hair, had no friends and once pissed in the sink at that party he wasn't invited to? That's your kid, without peer pressure. A study conducted at the University of Virginia showed that kids who were exposed to peer pressure around the ages of 12 and 13 turned out to be way more well-adjusted than the ones who weren't. They better understood the need to accommodate and make compromises when confronted with social pressure, rather than the "I'll just take my ball and go home" attitude they adopt otherwise.
The kids who were taught to be themselves no matter what didn't become walking clones of James Dean. They actually turned out less engaged, socially challenged and statistically less intelligent, their GPAs dropping almost an entire letter grade.
Maybe more importantly, when you actually give a damn about how people view you, it develops a skill of reading the most subtle changes in people's emotional states, leading ultimately to a heightened sense of empathy. In this socially awkward age of the Internet, it turns out peer pressure at the right time can basically give you superpowers.
#5.Making Them Play Sports
You'd Think...
Nobody wants their child to grow up a dateless nerd, so as soon as his bones harden up, it's off to football practice. There, the guy who used to steal your lunch money and punched a girl at recess in fourth grade will teach your children important life lessons about fair play and sportsmanship, which will naturally transform them into honest, hard working adults.
But in Reality...
Remember your school days, when Steve the quarterback managed to keep passing his classes despite firmly believing that the first president of the United States was George Washington Carver? If you suspected he was cheating somehow, a study of over 5000 students from the Los Angeles-based Josephson Institute seems to confirm it. According to the study, athletes are some of the most dishonest kids in school, with football players turning out the worst with over 72 percent admitting to having cheated during various examinations. Where does this attitude come from? The study suggests it might be the coaches.
But let's face it, you're not sending your kid off to practice so he can have a good time and make friends. You want some goddamn trophies, so coaches are not above teaching kids how to cut corners, feign injuries and do whatever humiliating damage they can to their opponents, because hey, nothing else matters but winning, right?
#4.Starting Them In School Early
You'd Think...
Education must not wait. Your parents waited until you were seven before sending you to school and look at how fucking sad you turned out. You'll be damned if your child suffers the same ill-fate. Is six-months old too early to start attending school? Come on, what's the worst that could happen?
But in Reality...
We hope you didn't have any plans to remodel your basement, because your kid will be living there for a very long time. A study by the National Foundation for Educational Research in the UK has concluded that children who start schooling before the age of six are more likely to drop out from higher education facilities, smoke weed and play guitar badly.
Researchers say sending kids to school before they've developed even the basic little-kid skills of a six-year-old can cause them to suffer from anxiety attacks and develop low self-esteem issues, giving them a bad attitude about the whole "going to school" thing that follows them throughout their education.
This does introduce children to the hopeless, bitter disappointment that is life and prepares them for their soul crushing future office workplace, but even those places want at least a high school diploma.
#3.Warning Them About Strangers
You'd Think...
When it comes to child molestation, there is no such thing as too careful. It is important that your children understand to never do anything a stranger tells them to, and to realize the entire world is out there just waiting to murder the shit out of them for no reason.
But in Reality...
As it turns out, an overblown emphasis on "Stranger Danger" can apparently transform your children into xenophobic bigots, at least that's what professor Sue Scott from the University of Durham is saying. According to Scott, children should certainly be taught to be cautious of strangers, but what most parents are teaching their kids today causes children worldwide to freak out at the mere sight of anything out of the ordinary.
Statistically children are far, far more likely to be abducted/molested by someone the family knows than a roving child molestation gang. Teaching children to fear anyone strange or different from themselves manifests itself later as a fear of pretty much the entire outside world. By adulthood, they're locking their doors every time a Mexican walks by.
#2.Heaping Praise On Them
You'd Think...
Your parents never told you that you were special, even after that kidnapping story you made up to hide the report card with all the Fs. Your kid will have it better. "Great job on the test, son! I loved it how you blocked the ball with your face, son! Got your girlfriend pregnant? High five, up top!"
But in Reality...
We have previously mentioned how the whole self-esteem movement turned a whole lot of people into dicks, because they emotionally can't handle anyone who doesn't boost their ego. We further theorized that this gave birth to the modern douchebag movement.
But it turns out there are effects beyond simply making people unbearable to be around. A study published in 2007 by researches from Columbia and Stanford University found that frequently-praised kids eventually came to believe that intelligence and talent were things they were born with, things which under no possible circumstances could be improved. Consequently, they avoided academic situations that presented any kind of challenge and refused to see the value in any activity that required effort, because if they were so freaking amazing, nothing worth doing should be hard, right?
As a result, their grades dropped and they developed motivation and, ironically, self-esteem issues. So the lesson here is, make your kid realize the value of hard work and honest effort before they self-tan themselves orange and pop their collars. By then, it will be too late.
#1.Showing Them Educational Videos
You'd Think...
We've all heard of those Baby Einstein educational videos, claiming you can park your one-year-old in front of them and have him transform into a Mozart-playing, Shakespeare-quoting nuclear physicist. Makes sense, children soak up knowledge like little kid-shaped ShamWows. The more info you give them during this crucial soaking stage, the better!
But in Reality...
You may have heard that Disney is offering refunds on its Baby Einstein line of educational DVDs. This came after a research team led by Frederick Zimmerman and Dr. Dimitri Christakis from the University of Washington showed that babies watching the popular educational videos around the age of one learn six to eight less words per hour than children who spent their afternoons putting dirt in their mouths. It's because, despite what you have been telling yourself for years, virtual interaction is never as good the real thing.
If you really want your children to learn from an early age, you need to read to them and supply the buggers with as much human-on-human interaction as possible, not park their adorable little butts in front of the fucking television. TV programs and Infant Education videos use a series of rapidly changing scenes and constantly bombard your kids with new words. With time, their itsy bitsy minds start to filter out most of the information just to help manage the constant barrage, and voila! The kids develop shorter attention spans, and eventually the food service industry claims another life.
Don't most children go to school before age 6? :unsure:
I don't think kindergarten is mandatory.
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2009, 03:27:00 PM
Don't most children go to school before age 6? :unsure:
Dont know about other counties , but in Denmark do you start in 1st grade at age 6 or 7...
# 3 is moronic.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 14, 2009, 04:08:50 PM
I don't think kindergarten is mandatory.
Hmm...I always just assumed that everyone went.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 14, 2009, 08:04:52 PM
# 3 is moronic.
Most of it is either moronic or obvious. #7 is my favorite-- yeah, those names are why people with those names are in jail. Nuffin' else :lol:
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2009, 10:21:01 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 14, 2009, 04:08:50 PM
I don't think kindergarten is mandatory.
Hmm...I always just assumed that everyone went.
Let alone preschool. :ph34r:
I went at 3!
Hint: Don't get parenting advice from Cracked Magazine.
#6 is also a great explanation why home schooling is for morons.
Show me a single well-adjusted individual who was home schooled.
Hint: Mentioning a name of a Languishite is not an acceptable response.
The funniest (or saddest, depending on your point of view) thing are parents who approach parenting in a "scientific" manner by reading a hoard of various self-help books and then plan their kid's whole childhood down to minutiae, by filling up his or her every waking moment with courses, training activities and all kinds of shit like that.
If you listen to them, it's as if the fact that people have been raising kids more or less successfully for a bunch of the last millennia is pretty much a freak bout of luck.
Malcolm is original? :blink:
Having a weird name wouldn't suck that much. Maybe if it was easily translatable into a insult or totally bizzare but otherwise...meh. And when you get to adulthood it would be pretty darn awesome.
Number 6 is definatly true though. That fucked up a lot of my teenage years. What people think matters. Unfortunatly.
QuoteDon't most children go to school before age 6? :unsure:
That stood out to me too. In Britain (where the study was supposed to be from), you start at 4 1/2
Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2009, 06:09:07 AM
The funniest (or saddest, depending on your point of view) thing are parents who approach parenting in a "scientific" manner by reading a hoard of various self-help books and then plan their kid's whole childhood down to minutiae, by filling up his or her every waking moment with courses, training activities and all kinds of shit like that.
If you listen to them, it's as if the fact that people have been raising kids more or less successfully for a bunch of the last millennia is pretty much a freak bout of luck.
Dr. Spock is a fraud.
Quote from: Razgovory on November 14, 2009, 11:36:51 PM
Hint: Don't get parenting advice from Cracked Magazine.
Whoops. Didn't even read the link. I wouldn't have bothered then. I got = suckered.
I facepalmed myself.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsmoothfewfilms.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F03%2Ffacepalm2ly3.jpg&hash=b00ede847433fe11f9e957bcc28db88658909aad)
Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2009, 06:00:16 AM
#6 is also a great explanation why home schooling is for morons.
Show me a single well-adjusted individual who was home schooled.
Hint: Mentioning a name of a Languishite is not an acceptable response.
Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2009, 06:00:16 AM
#6 is also a great explanation why home schooling is for morons.
Show me a single well-adjusted individual who was home schooled.
Hint: Mentioning a name of a Languishite is not an acceptable response.
Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2009, 06:00:16 AM
#6 is also a great explanation why home schooling is for morons.
Show me a single well-adjusted individual who was home schooled.
Hint: Mentioning a name of a Languishite is not an acceptable response.
There's nothing wrong
per se with home schooling. The problem with it is that most parents are morons. But then again, most schoolteachers are morons, so it all balances out.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 15, 2009, 07:50:22 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 14, 2009, 11:36:51 PM
Hint: Don't get parenting advice from Cracked Magazine.
Whoops. Didn't even read the link. I wouldn't have bothered then. I got = suckered.
I facepalmed myself.
Still, Cracked managed to get more things right than Dr. Spock.
Feed your kids a steady diet of pop-tarts and violent Bugs Bunny cartoons.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 15, 2009, 04:13:46 PM
Feed your kids a steady diet of pop-tarts and violent Bugs Bunny cartoons.
The Bugs bunny part worked for me (didnt have pop-tarts), also learned a good deal of english through Bugs Bunny and Tom & Jerry cartoons...
Quote from: dps on November 15, 2009, 03:59:51 PM
There's nothing wrong per se with home schooling. The problem with it is that most parents are morons. But then again, most schoolteachers are morons, so it all balances out.
Actually, there is - it's the lack of socialization. Schools provide children with opportunities to interact with other people, both peers and adults, including in conflict situations that cannot be immediately resolved by an ever-present parent.
Even if home schooling parents make sure their kids participate in some activities that involve other children, this does not make up for the lack of school-style socialization, because it is both too short (a couple of hours per day, at most) and usually is done with the parent(s) present, thus not allowing the child to get independent of the parents' protection.
Quote from: Mr.Penguin on November 15, 2009, 05:23:04 PM
also learned a good deal of english through Bugs Bunny
Must have done wonders for your pronounciation. :lol:
Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2009, 05:24:17 PM
Even if home schooling parents make sure their kids participate in some activities that involve other children, this does not make up for the lack of school-style socialization, because it is both too short (a couple of hours per day, at most) and usually is done with the parent(s) present, thus not allowing the child to get independent of the parents' protection.
News flash: schools have teachers, who are sometimes more controlling than parents. The few kids I know of that are homeschooled show no problems with socialization-- they seem to get enough socialization through sports, boy scouts, playing with their friends in the afternoon, etc.
The schools where I live are pretty good, so I'd have no incentive to homeschool my kid even if it were a viable option for me. In other situations, I could see myself doing it.
Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2009, 06:00:16 AM
#6 is also a great explanation why home schooling is for morons.
Show me a single well-adjusted individual who was home schooled.
Hint: Mentioning a name of a Languishite is not an acceptable response.
Hey now. I was home schooled for 5 years.
Quote from: ulmont on November 15, 2009, 05:45:40 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2009, 06:00:16 AM
#6 is also a great explanation why home schooling is for morons.
Show me a single well-adjusted individual who was home schooled.
Hint: Mentioning a name of a Languishite is not an acceptable response.
Hey now. I was home schooled for 5 years.
You are apparently a monster.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 15, 2009, 05:26:58 PM
Quote from: Mr.Penguin on November 15, 2009, 05:23:04 PM
also learned a good deal of english through Bugs Bunny
Must have done wonders for your pronounciation. :lol:
Coupled with my ridiculous flat danish accent, am I sure its lovely... :P
Quote from: ulmont on November 15, 2009, 05:45:40 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2009, 06:00:16 AM
#6 is also a great explanation why home schooling is for morons.
Show me a single well-adjusted individual who was home schooled.
Hint: Mentioning a name of a Languishite is not an acceptable response.
Hey now. I was home schooled for 5 years.
I rest my case.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 15, 2009, 05:47:44 PM
You are apparently a monster.
Worse, he's a Tech fan. :P
Always refreshing to get some advice from real parenting experts, like Marty.
Quote from: derspiess on November 15, 2009, 05:42:56 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2009, 05:24:17 PM
Even if home schooling parents make sure their kids participate in some activities that involve other children, this does not make up for the lack of school-style socialization, because it is both too short (a couple of hours per day, at most) and usually is done with the parent(s) present, thus not allowing the child to get independent of the parents' protection.
News flash: schools have teachers, who are sometimes more controlling than parents. The few kids I know of that are homeschooled show no problems with socialization-- they seem to get enough socialization through sports, boy scouts, playing with their friends in the afternoon, etc.
The schools where I live are pretty good, so I'd have no incentive to homeschool my kid even if it were a viable option for me. In other situations, I could see myself doing it.
I knew a guy who was home schooled in grade school. He was kinda shy but seemed okay. Was really clever. Last I heard he was in Japan or something.
Quote from: Berkut on November 15, 2009, 08:09:53 PM
Always refreshing to get some advice from real parenting experts, like Marty.
Cracked Magazine is more useful.
This thread delivers! :lol:
Quote from: Berkut on November 15, 2009, 08:09:53 PM
Always refreshing to get some advice from real parenting experts, like Marty.
Always refreshing to see Berkut come in with an ad-hom.
GUYS, NOT ALL INSULTS ARE AD HOMS.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 16, 2009, 02:49:29 AM
GUYS, NOT ALL INSULTS ARE AD HOMS.
You, with your fucking logic and shit!
Just because Marty has no experience rearing children, and will never have children of his own, is no basis to criticize his opinion about rearing children.
Quote from: Scipio on November 16, 2009, 04:17:40 AM
You, with your fucking logic and shit!
Just because Marty has no experience rearing children, and will never have children of his own, is no basis to criticize his opinion about rearing children.
Hehe, an ad hom might not be fallacious in this case, but I don't think Berkut and Martinus were arguing about anything in particular. I was commenting on the recent trend of pot shots, asides and all manner of disparaging remarks being labeled as such.
Quote from: Scipio on November 16, 2009, 04:17:40 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 16, 2009, 02:49:29 AM
GUYS, NOT ALL INSULTS ARE AD HOMS.
You, with your fucking logic and shit!
Just because Marty has no experience rearing children, and will never have children of his own, is no basis to criticize his opinion about rearing children.
I don't think anyone who posts on Languish has actually reared a single child from childhood until adulthood, and as such is able to say what works in the long run. Still, I haven't seen Berkut or you using this ad-hom at anyone else who posted in this thread.
So fuck off.
Quote from: Martinus on November 16, 2009, 06:20:58 AM
I don't think anyone who posts on Languish has actually reared a single child from childhood until adulthood, and as such is able to say what works in the long run. Still, I haven't seen Berkut or you using this ad-hom at anyone else who posted in this thread.
So fuck off.
Mine are nearly adults. At least, the eldest two will be 16 in slightly more than a month. Does that count?
Actually, are my kids the eldest Languishite progeny? :unsure:
Quote from: merithyn on November 16, 2009, 07:01:03 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 16, 2009, 06:20:58 AM
I don't think anyone who posts on Languish has actually reared a single child from childhood until adulthood, and as such is able to say what works in the long run. Still, I haven't seen Berkut or you using this ad-hom at anyone else who posted in this thread.
So fuck off.
Mine are nearly adults. At least, the eldest two will be 16 in slightly more than a month. Does that count?
Actually, are my kids the eldest Languishite progeny? :unsure:
So, can you tell us where it did wrong? :P
I made it a rule a long time ago not to give out parenting advice unless directly asked a specific question. Too many variances for there ever to be a "one-size fits all" parenting guide. What works for some does not work for others because a parent's personality has as much to do with it as the child's.
I will say, though, that the parent's attitude is really the best way to determine how "capable" a child will end up. You can give your kid a fucked up name and the kid will be just fine so long as everyone has a sense of humor about it. And homeschooling, in the right hands, isn't as bad as I once thought. It's all in how the parents handle it.
How do you propose to make sure the chid is properly socialized when home-schooled?
I wonder if the fact that so many Americans are egotistical sociopaths (aka "libertarians") compared to, say, Europe, is a result of homeschooling being more popular than it is in Europe (here it is virtually unheard of and in fact would be illegal unless the child has special needs and has a disability preventing him or her from attending classes).
I said that in the right hands, home-schooling isn't as bad as I first thought it was. I didn't say that I agreed with home-schooling in all its guises, nor that I think it's a perfect alternative to a school-based education. There are those who home-school well. They are far and few between, but they are out there.
One family comes to mind. I've never asked why she home-schools because I'm pretty sure I'd lose respect for her if I knew. (The whys of home-schooling generally irritate me more than the hows.) But she has four kids ranging in age from 18 to seven. They are all pretty bright kids, relatively well-turned out, and just decent folks. They are constantly involved in programs, classes, etc. that give them quite a bit of socialization. In addition, because they are home-schooled and not tied to a regular school day, the kids are able to be more involved in community plays, community projects that require unusual schedules, etc.
They are the exception to most of the other home-schooled kids I've met, but to be fair, most other home-schooled kids I've met were kept at home to avoid socialization, i.e. for religious reasons. (If they're not questioned by outsiders, they won't have to worry about questioning their beliefs themselves.)
Is it because, as Americans, we're more narcissistic than Europeans? Possibly. Might also be that because we're Americans we're more likely to accept thinking outside the box, or in this case, the classroom.
There's really no reason to attribute home schooling to some national quirk, it's still pretty rare.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 16, 2009, 07:37:00 AM
There's really no reason to attribute home schooling to some national quirk, it's still pretty rare.
1.5 million home-schooled kids in the U.S. in 2007
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/2009030.pdf (http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/2009030.pdf)
Quote from: merithyn on November 16, 2009, 07:11:07 AM
I made it a rule a long time ago not to give out parenting advice unless directly asked a specific question. Too many variances for there ever to be a "one-size fits all" parenting guide. What works for some does not work for others because a parent's personality has as much to do with it as the child's.
Very true. You can get some useful general guidelines or advice from books or other parents, but in the end you'll have to find what works best for your child and in the context of your family.
Quote from: merithyn on November 16, 2009, 07:32:40 AM
I said that in the right hands, home-schooling isn't as bad as I first thought it was. I didn't say that I agreed with home-schooling in all its guises, nor that I think it's a perfect alternative to a school-based education. There are those who home-school well. They are far and few between, but they are out there.
One family comes to mind. I've never asked why she home-schools because I'm pretty sure I'd lose respect for her if I knew. (The whys of home-schooling generally irritate me more than the hows.) But she has four kids ranging in age from 18 to seven. They are all pretty bright kids, relatively well-turned out, and just decent folks. They are constantly involved in programs, classes, etc. that give them quite a bit of socialization. In addition, because they are home-schooled and not tied to a regular school day, the kids are able to be more involved in community plays, community projects that require unusual schedules, etc.
They are the exception to most of the other home-schooled kids I've met, but to be fair, most other home-schooled kids I've met were kept at home to avoid socialization, i.e. for religious reasons. (If they're not questioned by outsiders, they won't have to worry about questioning their beliefs themselves.)
Is it because, as Americans, we're more narcissistic than Europeans? Possibly. Might also be that because we're Americans we're more likely to accept thinking outside the box, or in this case, the classroom.
I agree with what you posted, however I think that proper socialization also involves learning how to be a bastard. :P
I may be wrong, but I think home schooling, even when done right, will create a relatively idealistic worldview for a child, one that can turn to be quite naive once the child grows up and has to make it out on their own.
For example, one thing schools will teach you is that honesty is not always the best policy - I am not talking about compulsive lying, but that creative treatment of truth (when not overused and when backed up by some actual credibility) is often the best approach. Another is that some people cannot be reasoned with. yet another is that you have multiple, often conflicting, authority centers and you have to learn to navigate between them (something, I think, the home schooling environment does not foster, as it is more mono-centric, with the parent at the top).
Essentially, a good homeschooling parent is raising a little Mormon - where's the fun in it?
Quote from: merithyn on November 16, 2009, 07:41:38 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 16, 2009, 07:37:00 AM
There's really no reason to attribute home schooling to some national quirk, it's still pretty rare.
1.5 million home-schooled kids in the U.S. in 2007
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/2009030.pdf (http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/2009030.pdf)
How much is it in the overall children populace?
53 million.
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/population/004083.html (http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/population/004083.html)
So that's what? 3%? Isn't this about the level of support libertarians get in the US? :P
Quote from: Martinus on November 16, 2009, 07:53:15 AM
Quote from: merithyn on November 16, 2009, 07:41:38 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 16, 2009, 07:37:00 AM
There's really no reason to attribute home schooling to some national quirk, it's still pretty rare.
1.5 million home-schooled kids in the U.S. in 2007
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/2009030.pdf (http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/2009030.pdf)
How much is it in the overall children populace?
I believe the report said 2.7% of school-aged children in the U.S.
Quote from: Martinus on November 16, 2009, 07:52:01 AM
I agree with what you posted, however I think that proper socialization also involves learning how to be a bastard. :P
I may be wrong, but I think home schooling, even when done right, will create a relatively idealistic worldview for a child, one that can turn to be quite naive once the child grows up and has to make it out on their own.
For example, one thing schools will teach you is that honesty is not always the best policy - I am not talking about compulsive lying, but that creative treatment of truth (when not overused and when backed up by some actual credibility) is often the best approach. Another is that some people cannot be reasoned with. yet another is that you have multiple, often conflicting, authority centers and you have to learn to navigate between them (something, I think, the home schooling environment does not foster, as it is more mono-centric, with the parent at the top).
Essentially, a good homeschooling parent is raising a little Mormon - where's the fun in it?
As I said, I do not believe that home-schooling is a good replacement to a school-based education. The social aspect of dealing with teachers (bosses) one doesn't like, students (co-workers) one can't stand, and overall situations that are well beyond their control (stupid rules and ignorant guidelines like the corporate world) are important educational tools, I think. Most home-schooled children do not learn how to handle these situations, but that doesn't mean that all home-schooled children don't.
In the family I mentioned, because the kids are in community theater and community-based projects, they deal with all of that pretty often. Not as often as in a school setting, but it's still there. Is it as good as? *shrugs* Dunno. It's certainly different.
I'd be interested to know the regional breakdown of home-schooling in the US. Now that I think about it, I don't think I've met a single person who mentioned they were home-schooled or talked about home-schooling as a potential choice. But maybe outside the urbanized Northeast it's more common.
I think children should be stuffed in cages and sold as scientific experiments.
THAT is my solution to raising kids.
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on November 16, 2009, 08:57:22 AM
I'd be interested to know the regional breakdown of home-schooling in the US. Now that I think about it, I don't think I've met a single person who mentioned they were home-schooled or talked about home-schooling as a potential choice. But maybe outside the urbanized Northeast it's more common.
I knew several people in Massachusetts who were home schooled.
Here in Illinois, it's pretty common. I'm not sure why, though I'd hazard a guess that 75% of those who are homeschooled are done so for religious reasons. We're not quite the Bible belt, but we're damn close.
Quote from: Martinus on November 16, 2009, 07:52:01 AM
I agree with what you posted, however I think that proper socialization also involves learning how to be a bastard. :P
People can figure that out on their own, I assure you.
Quote from: Martinus on November 16, 2009, 07:18:52 AM
How do you propose to make sure the chid is properly socialized when home-schooled?
Why are you so concerned about that?
Quote from: derspiess on November 16, 2009, 10:08:48 AM
Why are you so concerned about that?
With proper socialization, a child turns out gay. ^_^
Quote from: derspiess on November 16, 2009, 10:08:48 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 16, 2009, 07:18:52 AM
How do you propose to make sure the chid is properly socialized when home-schooled?
Why are you so concerned about that?
Lack of socialization is a legitimate worry. As Merithyn noted, of course, if you have a community with sufficient other opportunities (peewee football leagues and the like, community theater if you must, boy/girl scouts, etc.) for socialization, any problems can be mitigated.
Quote from: derspiess on November 16, 2009, 10:08:48 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 16, 2009, 07:18:52 AM
How do you propose to make sure the chid is properly socialized when home-schooled?
Why are you so concerned about that?
Yeah, I mean I turned out fine.
Quote from: Martinus on November 16, 2009, 08:23:12 AM
So that's what? 3%? Isn't this about the level of support libertarians get in the US? :P
It is a bit of a pain to actually home school a child.
I think the oddness associated with home schooled children is a function of the parents that want to home school being odd themselves. It isn't as though children are programmed to require schooling for socialization--we may think that way because that is what we went through, but that hasn't been the norm in history.
My father and his sibs were home-schooled for their early childhood education. One sister became a famous writer, he became a reasonably well known scientist, another sister became a recluse.
Come to think of it, none of them are what you would describe as normally well-socialized, particularly my dad. But then, neither am I, and I went to school. :D
They got home schooled as a result of isolation, not religion: they literally lived in the deep forest, as a result of grandpa's work.
Quote from: ulmont on November 16, 2009, 10:13:39 AM
Lack of socialization is a legitimate worry. As Merithyn noted, of course, if you have a community with sufficient other opportunities (peewee football leagues and the like, community theater if you must, boy/girl scouts, etc.) for socialization, any problems can be mitigated.
My question was why *Marty* is so concerned about 3% of children in the US getting proper socialization. Marty hates children & hates the US, so why would he care?
Quote from: Scipio on November 16, 2009, 04:17:40 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 16, 2009, 02:49:29 AM
GUYS, NOT ALL INSULTS ARE AD HOMS.
You, with your fucking logic and shit!
Just because Marty has no experience rearing children, and will never have children of his own, is no basis to criticize his opinion about rearing children.
I think all of you are being unfair to Marty. In my experience, people who never had children are by far the most prolific child-rearing experts.
Quote from: Malthus on November 16, 2009, 10:39:30 AM
My father and his sibs were home-schooled for their early childhood education. One sister became a famous writer,
Harry Potter sucks.
Quote from: DGuller on November 16, 2009, 12:15:28 PM
I think all of you are being unfair to Marty. In my experience, people who never had children are by far the most prolific child-rearing experts.
That's a fair point, actually. He probably knows as much about raising a child as he does about U.S. law.
Quote from: merithyn on November 16, 2009, 08:37:17 AM
The social aspect of dealing with teachers (bosses) one doesn't like, students (co-workers) one can't stand, and overall situations that are well beyond their control (stupid rules and ignorant guidelines like the corporate world) are important educational tools
Yeah, 'cause parents never make stupid rules, and always give control over family decisions to the kids. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Martinus on November 15, 2009, 06:02:11 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 14, 2009, 08:04:52 PM
# 3 is moronic.
Not it's not.
It is actually. all these "guidelines" are the extreme case example. The middleground where most parents parent from is the norm.
Quote from: Mr.Penguin on November 15, 2009, 05:23:04 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 15, 2009, 04:13:46 PM
Feed your kids a steady diet of pop-tarts and violent Bugs Bunny cartoons.
The Bugs bunny part worked for me (didnt have pop-tarts), also learned a good deal of english through Bugs Bunny and Tom & Jerry cartoons...
Did you learn English as a baby? You may have learned to read it, but you certainly didn't learn enough to really comprehend what you're reading. Maybe that's a general problem, rather than language-specific, however.
Danes... :rolleyes:
Or to elaborate (in order to avoid having to post explanatory once you reply with what amounts to :huh: :mad: :bash: ), they noted that it was not a good way to teach BABIES to read. Presumably, when you started picking up English it was late enough to be considered a second language in which case you've already built the neuron pathways that allow you to speak in the first place.
I have never met a homeschooled person who was a drama queen attention whore. But then again none of them grew up in Poland so I suppose it is possible that country has different home schooling outcomes.
I don't know anyone who was home schooled.
Or rather, I don't know anyone who I know was home schooled. How can you tell them apart?
Quote from: Berkut on November 16, 2009, 11:10:37 PM
I don't know anyone who was home schooled.
Or rather, I don't know anyone who I know was home schooled. How can you tell them apart?
Maybe you just don't have any friends. :P
Occasionally, home schooling or grade school education does come up when speaking with them...
Quote from: ulmont on November 16, 2009, 11:15:26 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 16, 2009, 11:10:37 PM
I don't know anyone who was home schooled.
Or rather, I don't know anyone who I know was home schooled. How can you tell them apart?
Maybe you just don't have any friends. :P
Occasionally, home schooling or grade school education does come up when speaking with them...
Sure, but if the overall rate is less than 3%, I bet my demographic rate is half that or less - which means that the odds of someone I know well enough to chat about that kind of thing being home schooled are pretty low. So far, I have not stumbled across any.
I was home schooled from 7th grade(age 12) till college at 16.
I didn't miss out on socialization as I played sports and kept in touch with former classmates.
Quote from: Berkut on November 16, 2009, 11:50:57 PM\
Sure, but if the overall rate is less than 3%, I bet my demographic rate is half that or less - which means that the odds of someone I know well enough to chat about that kind of thing being home schooled are pretty low. So far, I have not stumbled across any.
Apparently you're 0-2 on observation.
Quote from: katmai on November 17, 2009, 12:10:40 AM
I was home schooled from 7th grade(age 12) till college at 16.
I didn't miss out on socialization as I played sports and kept in touch with former classmates.
5th grade through 9th grade. I did some sports, but decline to mention which on the grounds that I don't want Grallon jerking off to images of my younger self.
Quote from: ulmont on November 17, 2009, 12:13:13 AM
Quote from: katmai on November 17, 2009, 12:10:40 AM
I was home schooled from 7th grade(age 12) till college at 16.
I didn't miss out on socialization as I played sports and kept in touch with former classmates.
5th grade through 9th grade. I did some sports, but decline to mention which on the grounds that I don't want Grallon jerking off to images of my younger self.
Wrasslin'? :w00t:
I'm guessing that ulmont was a catcher. :P
Quote from: katmai on November 17, 2009, 12:10:40 AM
I was home schooled from 7th grade(age 12) till college at 16.
I didn't miss out on socialization as I played sports and kept in touch with former classmates.
Well shit. Never woulda guessed.
Is that sarcasm? All my time in homeschooling has made it impossible to tell!
No sarcasm.
For one thing I think of homeschooling as a haole thing. (Even though my sister homeschools and she's half Korean.)
In Hong Kong, the school year starts in September each year. That means September is a cutoff point in deciding which year a student is admitted into school.
I was born in November. So I had to wait for 10 months.
Funny thing was, my wife was born in December in the same year as me. And she was admitted into school one year earlier than me.
Because her parents fought the system to the hilt. Because my parents didn't.
I lost one year of salary because of them.
Quote from: Monoriu on November 17, 2009, 05:27:44 AM
I lost one year of salary because of them.
:lol:
My parents opted not to let me skip a grade in elementary school. OTOH, I was born right before the cut-off, so already was usually the youngest student in my class.
Same. My brother did two years of kindergarten, but I only did one.
Quote from: katmai on November 17, 2009, 12:10:40 AM
I was home schooled from 7th grade(age 12) till college at 16.
I didn't miss out on socialization as I played sports and kept in touch with former classmates.
I have noticed that for those kids who are homeschooled later, it's not much different than going to a regular classroom, except that they're further ahead and usually a good bit brighter. The wee ones who started school for the first time after 5th grade really seemed to struggle, comparatively.
Quote from: katmai on November 17, 2009, 12:10:40 AM
I was home schooled from 7th grade(age 12) till college at 16.
I didn't miss out on socialization as I played sports and kept in touch with former classmates.
Why were you homeschooled? Just wondering.
As far as forcing "normal" social relations goes, I'd say I'm pretty messed up as a result. I was always the odd kid out in class, yet my parents refused to homeschool me or even to accept the school's recommendation of skipping grades because they were afraid I would "miss out" on social development. And look how much good it did me. :P
Quote from: Caliga on November 17, 2009, 09:31:09 AM
Quote from: katmai on November 17, 2009, 12:10:40 AM
I was home schooled from 7th grade(age 12) till college at 16.
I didn't miss out on socialization as I played sports and kept in touch with former classmates.
Why were you homeschooled? Just wondering.
Moved to Seattle right before 7th grade and from being a straight a student and in the gifted programs at previous schools, went to a public school lacking such, got bored with classes and was getting in fights with a few select students in the 1st half of school year, so at spring break while I was on vacation, my mother decided to pull me out and put me into home schooling.
She had made sure to get me tutors for math and sciences areas where she was deficent.
Katmai, according to the Martinus knows everything scale, is a weirdo and deficient.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 17, 2009, 11:59:53 AM
Katmai, according to the Martinus knows everything scale, is a weirdo and deficient.
Don't forget the dreaded "libertarian" which is considerably worse.
When I was coaching baseball one of the most popular kids in the league was a boy who as homeschooled. He had the advantage of being finished with his studies early every day so that he could go out and play with the neighbourhood kids whenever they arrived home from school.
Poor kids these days... have so much going against them, and that's just from those who are trying to help them, educate and raise them! :(
Quote from: Berkut on November 17, 2009, 12:07:48 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 17, 2009, 11:59:53 AM
Katmai, according to the Martinus knows everything scale, is a weirdo and deficient.
Don't forget the dreaded "libertarian" which is considerably worse.
Damn straight, i can take being called a weirdo and deficient, but not a god damn libertarian!
Quote from: katmai on November 17, 2009, 06:02:20 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 17, 2009, 12:07:48 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 17, 2009, 11:59:53 AM
Katmai, according to the Martinus knows everything scale, is a weirdo and deficient.
Don't forget the dreaded "libertarian" which is considerably worse.
Damn straight, i can take being called a weirdo and deficient, but not a god damn libertarian!
Katmai likes Rand.
Quote from: KRonn on November 17, 2009, 12:50:22 PM
Poor kids these days... have so much going against them, and that's just from those who are trying to help them, educate and raise them! :(
:D
As a parent, you get somewhat used to constant hysterical reminders that you are the cause of all social ills, and that anything and everything you do (or fail to do) with your kids makes someone out there think you are Worse Than Hitler(tm).
Quote from: Malthus on November 17, 2009, 06:07:07 PM
:D
As a parent, you get somewhat used to constant hysterical reminders that you are the cause of all social ills, and that anything and everything you do (or fail to do) with your kids makes someone out there think you are Worse Than Hitler(tm).
Wait. Your kid is still little. Once he's old enough to actually do things without you around, it gets worse. Every poor decision he'll make will be the direct result of your parenting/lack thereof. :rolleyes:
Quote from: merithyn on November 17, 2009, 06:18:02 PM
Once he's old enough to actually do things without you around, it gets worse.
On the bright side though my eldest has started cooking supper for us. He is very talented in the kitchen and we have had some wonderful meals.
Quote from: merithyn on November 17, 2009, 06:18:02 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 17, 2009, 06:07:07 PM
:D
As a parent, you get somewhat used to constant hysterical reminders that you are the cause of all social ills, and that anything and everything you do (or fail to do) with your kids makes someone out there think you are Worse Than Hitler(tm).
Wait. Your kid is still little. Once he's old enough to actually do things without you around, it gets worse. Every poor decision he'll make will be the direct result of your parenting/lack thereof. :rolleyes:
Heh, I can see that happening.
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 17, 2009, 06:19:18 PM
On the bright side though my eldest has started cooking supper for us. He is very talented in the kitchen and we have had some wonderful meals.
I meant the "You're a crap parent because you didn't do things as I think they should have been done" comments. :)
Older kids certainly have their positives. I've yet to find a "favorite" age for my kids. I've loved all of theirs so far.
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 17, 2009, 06:19:18 PM
Quote from: merithyn on November 17, 2009, 06:18:02 PM
Once he's old enough to actually do things without you around, it gets worse.
On the bright side though my eldest has started cooking supper for us. He is very talented in the kitchen and we have had some wonderful meals.
You let him in the kitchen?? What if he gets into the bleach and cleaners, or starts a fire and gets burned? You're a monster! :mad:
Nice, CC. I learned to cook for me and my brother because my dad travelled all the time and my mom was either in night school, or couldn't be bothered to make us dinner and so told us to "forage" (seriously).
What is so odd about that statement? Was she referring to real foraging and not raiding the pantry? :P
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 17, 2009, 09:55:55 PM
What is so odd about that statement? Was she referring to real foraging and not raiding the pantry? :P
Well, I think her intent was for us to raid the pantry, but since my parents chain-smoke, they have no appetite and thus there was never much in there. That's how I learned to cook good meals, since not only did I have to make shit but I had to go buy it as well. I quickly got bored with hot dogs and started going through her cookbooks.
One of the things I am most thankful to my Father for was raising me to be an incredible cynic and free thinker.
Case in point, when eight years old.
"Dad, what happens when you die?"
"Worms eat your corpse and your children don't talk for eight years because they're fighting over whether or not to put flowers on your grave."
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 16, 2009, 05:22:02 PM
I have never met a homeschooled person who was a drama queen attention whore. But then again none of them grew up in Poland so I suppose it is possible that country has different home schooling outcomes.
I have five of them(homeschooled drama queens) living next door to me. 1st generation Mexi-Canadians Each one screams louder than the next when shit doesn't go their way. All homeschooled, all day (though I don't know what class setting off fireworks and torturing the dog are, maybe that's recess. I have 3 cousins who are home schooled, their social skils are Gollum like. The most of the rest of my family (including these kids parents) are very much like me, gregarious, outgoing.
so some definite variation going on in the homeschooling culture.
Quote from: Caliga on November 17, 2009, 09:49:26 PM
Nice, CC. I learned to cook for me and my brother because my dad travelled all the time and my mom was either in night school, or couldn't be bothered to make us dinner and so told us to "forage" (seriously).
We have "Catch as catch can" meals probably once a week. In other words, find something you want because we're too fucking tired to make a meal tonight. I see nothing wrong with it. Leftovers, cold meat sandwiches, pot pies... pick what you want and get on with it.
Quote from: merithyn on November 18, 2009, 07:39:24 AM
We have "Catch as catch can" meals probably once a week. In other words, find something you want because we're too fucking tired to make a meal tonight. I see nothing wrong with it. Leftovers, cold meat sandwiches, pot pies... pick what you want and get on with it.
I wouldn't necessarily have seen much wrong with it *if* the pantries actually had shit other than cartons of Lark and Merit Ultra Lights in them. ;)
With some fava beans and a nice Chianti, a good Lark may not be so bad. :)
Quote from: Faeelin on November 17, 2009, 10:04:57 PM
One of the things I am most thankful to my Father for was raising me to be an incredible cynic and free thinker.
Case in point, when eight years old.
"Dad, what happens when you die?"
"Worms eat your corpse and your children don't talk for eight years because they're fighting over whether or not to put flowers on your grave."
Actually, the fight will be about divvying up your posessions ... ;)
Presuming there are possessions to divvy.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 18, 2009, 09:56:01 AM
Presuming there are possessions to divvy.
There's always something, even if only of sentemental value, to fight over.
Where there's a Will, there's a way! :D
I like to cook too. I think it's because my mom sucked at it.
Quote from: Faeelin on November 17, 2009, 10:04:57 PM
One of the things I am most thankful to my Father for was raising me to be an incredible cynic and free thinker.
Case in point, when eight years old.
"Dad, what happens when you die?"
"Worms eat your corpse and your children don't talk for eight years because they're fighting over whether or not to put flowers on your grave."
Lucky you. My girlfriend doesn't even want me to educate my future children about why Santa Claus doesn't exist, as soon as at toddler age. <_<
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 18, 2009, 10:07:45 AM
I like to cook too. I think it's because my mom sucked at it.
Yeah, same here. My mom is a great dessert maker, but everything else sucks. To this day I rarely eat steak or pork chops because she always managed to either burn them or make them so dry it was like eating leather.
My mom is a great cook. I am not.
I once asked my dad about fish.
"Dad, if everybody tries to get as much fish as possible for himself, will the fish run out one day?"
"Nah. The population of fish is so great, that we'll never run out of any kind of fish. They're as numerous as...atoms, sand, and stars."
"What about trees?"
"Same."
My mom is an excellent cook. I've learned to make scrambled eggs at 25.
Quote from: Monoriu on November 18, 2009, 10:34:25 AM
I once asked my dad about fish.
"Dad, if everybody tries to get as much fish as possible for himself, will the fish run out one day?"
"Nah. The population of fish is so great, that we'll never run out of any kind of fish. They're as numerous as...atoms, sand, and stars."
"What about trees?"
"Same."
:lol: Did you ask him about tiger penises?
Quote from: Faeelin on November 17, 2009, 10:04:57 PM
One of the things I am most thankful to my Father for was raising me to be an incredible cynic and free thinker.
Case in point, when eight years old.
"Dad, what happens when you die?"
"Worms eat your corpse and your children don't talk for eight years because they're fighting over whether or not to put flowers on your grave."
Eh, lots of cynicism there, but no sign of actual free thinking.
Of course, that's better than mono's dad--no sign of much in the fish answers except stupidity.
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 18, 2009, 10:07:45 AM
I like to cook too. I think it's because my mom sucked at it.
I like to cook - probably because my dad likes to cook. :blush:
My stepfather was a better cook than my mother, and I'm a better cook than aa.
Though my mom would agree that my stepfather was a better cook than she, I don't think that aa will agree that I'm better than she is. She will at least admit that I am good at it.
Quote from: dps on November 18, 2009, 10:26:40 PM
Eh, lots of cynicism there, but no sign of actual free thinking.
Of course, that's better than mono's dad--no sign of much in the fish answers except stupidity.
Eh, there was plenty of free thinking. We had tons of books on how the south was right, the British Empire was the greatest thing ever, Hitler wasn't aware of the holocaust...