The first prognosis is that the Conservatives + the Liberals can form the next government.
CDU/CSU (conservative) 33.5% (-1.7)
SPD (social democrats) 22.5 (-11.7)
FDP (european liberals)15.0 (+5.2)
Left (socialists) 12.5%
Greens c. 11% (didn't write the number down)
Pirate Party c. 2%
:cry:
I wonder who'll get which ministry. Let's just hope the FDP takes the Innenministerium.
Quote from: syk on September 27, 2009, 11:53:50 AM
I wonder who'll get which ministry. Let's just hope the FDP takes the Innenministerium.
That would be great. But I fear it will be Stasi Schäuble again. :(
Wouldn't this be the best FDP Result ever at the Federal Level?
Pirate Party? :pirate
This thread fails the Languish tradition of having silly mugshots of party leaders. <_<
Quote from: Warspite on September 27, 2009, 11:56:05 AM
Wouldn't this be the best FDP Result ever at the Federal Level?
Yes. Best results for Greens and Left too. Second worst for CDU, worst (by far) for SPD.
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 27, 2009, 11:59:50 AM
This thread fails the Languish tradition of having silly mugshots of party leaders. <_<
I did one of those about three or four weeks ago.
Quote from: Zanza on September 27, 2009, 12:07:33 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on September 27, 2009, 11:59:50 AM
This thread fails the Languish tradition of having silly mugshots of party leaders. <_<
I did one of those about three or four weeks ago.
:Caliga: Did it have one of Merkel's gratuitous cleavage shots?
QuotePirate Party c. 2%
While at the polls, everybody should have stolen all their stuff.
SPD :weep:
As someone with relatively little knowledge of German politics, I am curious about the downfall of the SPD. Since they were in a coalition with the CDU, I would have thought anything that tarred one would tar the other, but that does not see to be the case.
Why is the SPD's support collapsing?
Quote from: syk on September 27, 2009, 11:53:50 AM
I wonder who'll get which ministry. Let's just hope the FDP takes the Innenministerium.
Polish gay press has already reported that Guido Westerwelle is expected to become the Vice-Chancellor and the Foreign Affairs Minister.
Incidentally, with a black man ruling the US, an openly gay man being the most powerful minister in the UK, and Germany ruled by a woman and another openly gay man (not to mention a lesbian ruling Iceland, and two gay men ruling Paris and Berlin, respectively), I think we can safely say that the era of the White Straight Male (tm) is over.
Mwhahahahahahaha. :menace:
Welcome to the world of the femi-negro-homo-cracy. :punk:
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 06:43:11 AM
Welcome to the world of the femi-negro-homo-cracy. :punk:
And look: They've destroyed it. More proof that you can't trust women, non-whites or fags with anything of substance.
Quote from: Neil on September 28, 2009, 06:57:48 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 06:43:11 AM
Welcome to the world of the femi-negro-homo-cracy. :punk:
And look: They've destroyed it. More proof that you can't trust women, non-whites or fags with anything of substance.
Actually, we took over after a decade during which the Straight White Males weakened the West by plunging it into two wars, a recession and an environmental crisis.
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 06:59:45 AM
Actually, we took over after a decade during which the Straight White Males weakened the West by plunging it into two wars, a recession and an environmental crisis.
You? You're not even a person.
Still, they've made things infinitely worse, because they refuse to admit that only war and force can restore the West.
Quote from: Neil on September 28, 2009, 06:57:48 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 06:43:11 AM
Welcome to the world of the femi-negro-homo-cracy. :punk:
And look: They've destroyed it. More proof that you can't trust women, non-whites or fags with anything of substance.
Well, isn't it good that all these countries are really run by the civil service then?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.thisismoney.co.uk%2F.a%2F6a00d8341c565553ef01157208b7ac970b-800wi&hash=f3599c425302d236ce6f52891f821cc3737dc5d7)
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 06:59:45 AM
Quote from: Neil on September 28, 2009, 06:57:48 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 06:43:11 AM
Welcome to the world of the femi-negro-homo-cracy. :punk:
And look: They've destroyed it. More proof that you can't trust women, non-whites or fags with anything of substance.
Actually, we took over after a decade during which the Straight White Males weakened the West by plunging it into two wars, a recession and an environmental crisis.
If you really believe what you are writing, then I'd knock your UK candidate out of that triumphal list of yours, since he has been influential for long enough to help get his country into those wars.
Quote from: Viking on September 28, 2009, 07:10:53 AM
Quote from: Neil on September 28, 2009, 06:57:48 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 06:43:11 AM
Welcome to the world of the femi-negro-homo-cracy. :punk:
And look: They've destroyed it. More proof that you can't trust women, non-whites or fags with anything of substance.
Well, isn't it good that all these countries are really run by the civil service then?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.thisismoney.co.uk%2F.a%2F6a00d8341c565553ef01157208b7ac970b-800wi&hash=f3599c425302d236ce6f52891f821cc3737dc5d7)
Don't know if that was deliberate, but the guy in your picture was gay. :P
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 06:59:45 AM
Quote from: Neil on September 28, 2009, 06:57:48 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 06:43:11 AM
Welcome to the world of the femi-negro-homo-cracy. :punk:
And look: They've destroyed it. More proof that you can't trust women, non-whites or fags with anything of substance.
Actually, we took over after a decade during which the Straight White Males weakened the West by plunging it into two wars, a recession and an environmental crisis.
'we'? You are worse than Tim with that we bullshit.
Anyway, going back to the German elections, I'm extremely happy with the result.
As a Pole I am happy that CDU won, since they are much less likely that SPD to get all chummy with Putin, especially under Angela. And as a gay man (and a moderate free market supporter) I am happy that FPD won.
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 07:17:13 AM
Don't know if that was deliberate, but the guy in your picture was gay. :P
Sir Humphrey Appleby isn't.
Quote from: Viking on September 28, 2009, 07:23:17 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 07:17:13 AM
Don't know if that was deliberate, but the guy in your picture was gay. :P
Sir Humphrey Appleby isn't.
He was married - for a public schoolboy, that's not proof positive either way.
Quote from: Agelastus on September 28, 2009, 07:26:44 AM
Quote from: Viking on September 28, 2009, 07:23:17 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 07:17:13 AM
Don't know if that was deliberate, but the guy in your picture was gay. :P
Sir Humphrey Appleby isn't.
He was married - for a public schoolboy, that's not proof positive either way.
He's a misogynist, that means he must be straight.
Quote from: Viking on September 28, 2009, 08:24:57 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on September 28, 2009, 07:26:44 AM
Quote from: Viking on September 28, 2009, 07:23:17 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 07:17:13 AM
Don't know if that was deliberate, but the guy in your picture was gay. :P
Sir Humphrey Appleby isn't.
He was married - for a public schoolboy, that's not proof positive either way.
He's a misogynist, that means he must be straight.
You must be joking - some of the biggest misogynists are gay. :P
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 06:59:45 AM
Actually, we took over after a decade during which the Straight White Males weakened the West by plunging it into two wars, a recession and an environmental crisis.
I keep forgetting the great alliance between the African-American community and Homosexuals.
Obama does Marty's will.
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2009, 08:35:19 AM
I keep forgetting the great alliance between the African-American community and Homosexuals.
Obama does Marty's will.
Indeed. Obama has done more to defeat the gay agenda than any president, ever.
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2009, 08:35:19 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 06:59:45 AM
Actually, we took over after a decade during which the Straight White Males weakened the West by plunging it into two wars, a recession and an environmental crisis.
I keep forgetting the great alliance between the African-American community and Homosexuals.
Obama does Marty's will.
Only because we do not like each other does not mean we can't form an alliance to bring the White Straight Male (tm) down. :P
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 07:18:39 AM
Anyway, going back to the German elections, I'm extremely happy with the result.
As a Pole I am happy that CDU won, since they are much less likely that SPD to get all chummy with Putin, especially under Angela. And as a gay man (and a moderate free market supporter) I am happy that FPD won.
Well I am with you on being annoyed with the pro-Russian sympathies of the SPD last time they were in power. I like the idea of a Liberal party being in power in Germany...but it will be interesting to see how much an agenda like that will really work these days in Germany.
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 08:42:26 AM
Only because we do not like each other does not mean we can't form an alliance to bring the White Straight Male (tm) down. :P
Man we tolerate and love the gays and stop lynching them and killing them like the black/brown straight males and we get no credit for it. That is gratitude for you.
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2009, 08:43:18 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 07:18:39 AM
Anyway, going back to the German elections, I'm extremely happy with the result.
As a Pole I am happy that CDU won, since they are much less likely that SPD to get all chummy with Putin, especially under Angela. And as a gay man (and a moderate free market supporter) I am happy that FPD won.
Well I am with you on being annoyed with the pro-Russian sympathies of the SPD last time they were in power. I like the idea of a Liberal party being in power in Germany...but it will be interesting to see how much an agenda like that will really work these days in Germany.
Well, I don't expect them to do some overhaul of Germany but I think it is usually good if the ruling party or coalition serves as a sort of a counterweight to the country's overall profile.
Whenever a country is ruled by a party that embodies, embraces and worships its existent national tendencies (that would be Republicans in the US, nationalists in Poland, socialists in the modern day Germany), it usually creates some imbalance.
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 08:48:59 AM
Well, I don't expect them to do some overhaul of Germany but I think it is usually good if the ruling party or coalition serves as a sort of a counterweight to the country's overall profile.
Whenever a country is ruled by a party that embodies, embraces and worships its existent national tendencies (that would be Republicans in the US, nationalists in Poland, socialists in the modern day Germany), it usually creates some imbalance.
Interesting theory. I guess it does give the ruling party a bit too much leeway to do things and make trouble if they have literally no checks on them.
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 08:31:24 AM
Quote from: Viking on September 28, 2009, 08:24:57 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on September 28, 2009, 07:26:44 AM
Quote from: Viking on September 28, 2009, 07:23:17 AM
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 07:17:13 AM
Don't know if that was deliberate, but the guy in your picture was gay. :P
Sir Humphrey Appleby isn't.
He was married - for a public schoolboy, that's not proof positive either way.
He's a misogynist, that means he must be straight.
You must be joking - some of the biggest misogynists are gay. :P
Not the "ew cooters" misogyny of gheys, but rather the "little lady" misogyny of straights.
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 06:26:54 AM
Indeed. They are led by an openly gay guy so they have my vote. :P
Surely it's their liberalism that you'd be voting for, not their leaders sexual tastes? :lol:
Quote from: Zanza on September 27, 2009, 11:09:05 AM
The first prognosis is that the Conservatives + the Liberals can form the next government.
CDU/CSU (conservative) 33.5% (-1.7)
SPD (social democrats) 22.5 (-11.7)
FDP (european liberals)15.0 (+5.2)
Left (socialists) 12.5%
Greens c. 11% (didn't write the number down)
Pirate Party c. 2%
I ahve no idea how German politics works, but I once considered playing Macher Die.
Quote from: Berkut on September 28, 2009, 10:46:18 AM
I ahve no idea how German politics works, but I once considered playing Macher Die.
Die Macher.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdebatte.welt.de%2Ffiles%2Fdc5images%2F200809%2Fangela_merkel_und_ihr_mann_joachim_sauer_r_mit_dem_fdp_vorsitzenden_guido_westerwelle_und_dessen_lebensgefaehrten_michael_mronz_l_in_bayreuth_dw_bayern_bayreuth.jpg&hash=2b809bcb5147895b64126eb5c4922e2e903c2f94)
Marty, so you have a picture: this is Angie and Guido (in the middle) with their respective partners.
I googled them already, but thanks. :)
I'm picking up a Pat Boone vibe from Mr. Modified Hockey Doo.
Quote from: ulmont on September 28, 2009, 10:54:01 AM
Die Macher.
Something we should give a shot at some point.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 28, 2009, 11:04:52 AM
I'm picking up a Pat Boone vibe from Mr. Modified Hockey Doo.
This post is completely incomprehensible to me. :|
LOL I checked who Pat Boone is. :x :x :x
Quote from: Martinus on September 28, 2009, 11:47:49 AM
LOL I checked who Pat Boone is. :x :x :x
Hockey do is what I think Yuros call a mullet.
And, infortunatelty, nobody noticed the portuguese elections, which took place in the same day. :(
Our results were a bit different:
Winner:
Socialist Party (Socialist), with 36,56% of the vote
Raising their numbers in Parliament:
Left Block (Communist Trotskyte): 9,85%
PCP (Communist Stalinist): 7,88%
The right-wing lost, namely:
PPD/PSD (Social Democrat): 29,09%
But the extremist right made some progress <_<:
CDS-PP (Christian Democrat): 10,46%
The above parties got representation in Parliament. The sixth political force in the country (PCTP/MRPP - Old-Line Marxist) did not have enough votes (0,93%) to gain an MP.
The overall result was, as expected, a great win for the Left. :)
Hugo Chávez has already sent his enthusiatic greetings, saying that he joins in the portuguese "socialist jubilation" and that "Socialism is the say"
http://dn.sapo.pt/Inicio/interior.aspx?content_id=1374324
(article in portuguese, sorry)
As for the Germans: are they clinically retarded? With the Economy on the verge of collapse because of the Liberals, they vote even MORE Liberal? :huh:
Oh well, I expect that when Merkel spends all of Germany's money bailing out the banks and then hike the taxes on those that make less than a million per year then the Germans will be jumping of joy in the streets.
(they certainly will have no right to complain about how the banks robbed them blind, not after these elections...)
Quote from: Martim Silva on September 28, 2009, 01:06:28 PM
As for the Germans: are they clinically retarded? With the Economy on the verge of collapse because of the Liberals, they vote even MORE Liberal? :huh:
Which Liberals were in power in Germany the last few years? I count one Conservative and one Socialist party in the ranks of the governing coalition, but perhaps I have missed the Liberal puppet-masters?
Quote from: Martim Silva on September 28, 2009, 01:06:28 PMAs for the Germans: are they clinically retarded? With the Economy on the verge of collapse because of the Liberals, they vote even MORE Liberal? :huh:
Oh well, I expect that when Merkel spends all of Germany's money bailing out the banks and then hike the taxes on those that make less than a million per year then the Germans will be jumping of joy in the streets.
(they certainly will have no right to complain about how the banks robbed them blind, not after these elections...)
I guess we could always copy Portugal, have 80+% left-leaning parties and the shittiest economy of the old EU countries. Or maybe not.
Quote from: Zanza on September 28, 2009, 01:25:57 PM
I guess we could always copy Portugal, have 80+% left-leaning parties and the shittiest economy of the old EU countries. Or maybe not.
But like Moldava they suffered no serious economic downturn.:contract:
Quote from: Habbaku on September 28, 2009, 01:20:49 PM
Which Liberals were in power in Germany the last few years? I count one Conservative and one Socialist party in the ranks of the governing coalition, but perhaps I have missed the Liberal puppet-masters?
Er... all the Governments?
The Economic problems of today don't have recent roots: they're the result of decades of little control over the financial system, with regulators often turning a blind eye to the banks' practices in the name of their beloved "Deregulation".
In Germany's case, it suffered from 16 years under the extreme right (CDU, under Kohl, together with FPD), then the right (SPD, Schröder) and then an extreme right/right-wing CDU/SPD grand coalition. They ALL worked under the banner of "Free Market" and worshipped "Deregulation".
Quote from: Zanza
I guess we could always copy Portugal, have 80+% left-leaning parties and the shittiest economy of the old EU countries. Or maybe not.
The only reason why Germany had a semblance of prosperity in the last decades is that it has an export-driven Economy and the US imported a heck of a lot more than it needed, as the Americans underwent a consumist binge, drunken by the easy credit given to then by Liberal bankers.
Now that the US will have to buckle up, it's "Auf Wiedersehen" to economic growth [the only one Germany has now is because the Government has spent a wad of cash to replace the lost global demand] and "Guten Tag" to Giant Debt Left Over by Banksters Who Wildy Leveraged Themselves in The Derivatives Market In Order To Get Giant Bonuses For Themselves.
Also, remember that, like it or not, Europe is run by a Portuguese - Durão Barroso, head of the European Comission.
(Though he is changed now, he claims to be a right-winger [social democrat]. To remember that in his younger days he even closed a newspaper down because it failed to properly honour Stalins' birthday... how things change)
Quote from: Martim Silva on September 28, 2009, 01:06:28 PM
And, infortunatelty, nobody noticed the portuguese elections, which took place in the same day. :(
Which party is Mario Soares's? :wub:
Quote from: Martim Silva on September 28, 2009, 01:06:28 PM
As for the Germans: are they clinically retarded? With the Economy on the verge of collapse because of the Liberals, they vote even MORE Liberal? :huh:
Maybe they do not, like you, hold Cuba and Venezuela up as models the rest of the world should copy?
Quote from: Martim Silva on September 28, 2009, 02:05:57 PM
The Economic problems of today don't have recent roots: they're the result of decades of little control over the financial system, with regulators often turning a blind eye to the banks' practices in the name of their beloved "Deregulation".
Simple explanations from a simplistic mind.
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 28, 2009, 02:07:56 PM
Which party is Mario Soares's? :wub:
Mario Soares is an icon and founder of the Socialist Party.
Even though he started his career in the Communist Party, he went into exile in France in the days of the Fascist dictatorship and mellowed down. He returned in 1974 as a Socialist, more accurately a Menschevik.
Why are we wasting time with Polanski when its Chavez we should be arresting? <_<
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2009, 02:10:13 PM
Simple explanations from a simplistic mind.
The love of complex instruments is what created the Derivatives Market (and don't get me started on CFDs). I belive that often the simpler answers are best. As classifying those scams as such and jailing their proponents without giving them the chance to muddle the issue with their soft words.
Quote from: Martim Silva on September 28, 2009, 02:16:23 PM
The love of complex instruments is what created the Derivatives Market (and don't get me started on CFDs). I belive that often the simpler answers are best. As classifying those scams as such and jailing their proponents without giving them the chance to muddle the issue with their soft words.
Usually when people say scam they mean someone was lied to, cheated.
Overview from Austrian website derstandard.at:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.derstandard.at%2F2009%2F09%2F28%2F1253819843594.gif&hash=145d7611bd47fbc3779b31778e4c5da09cc946fb)
Big map in the middle: results by state. Top right: results 2005. Right middle: movements of voters between parties.
Bottom: result by certain groups (from left to right: first time voters, workers, self employed, pensioners, unemployed)
Top left: Result 2009
Mid left: comparison west/east
Bottom left: results since 1949
Btw, I think the drop in voter turnout (77.7 => 70.8 percent) is quite significant.
Quote from: Syt on September 28, 2009, 02:28:51 PM
Btw, I think the drop in voter turnout (77.7 => 70.8 percent) is quite significant.
Disillusionment?
Of course here in the USA we could only dream of someday having 70.8 % turnout.
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2009, 02:33:05 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 28, 2009, 02:28:51 PM
Btw, I think the drop in voter turnout (77.7 => 70.8 percent) is quite significant.
Disillusionment?
I'd think so. It's increasing feeling in Germany (and, for what it's worth in Austria), that politicians are aloft, disconnected from (and uninterested in) the common people. Kind of like an ivory tower of politics that's too abstract for the average Joe on the street to understand or care about. Which is why populist parties (both left and right) with more tangible goals or slogans in easily understandable language are attracting voters, even if they more often just say "what is wrong" than actually offer a solution.
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2009, 02:33:05 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 28, 2009, 02:28:51 PM
Btw, I think the drop in voter turnout (77.7 => 70.8 percent) is quite significant.
Disillusionment?
Of course here in the USA we could only dream of someday having 70.8 % turnout.
We had a pretty close number in 2008. :huh: Hell, even more of the dead came back to vote than usual.
They still love their Stasi in the old East. That reminds me to add Goodbye Lenin to my Netflix queue.
Quote from: Martim Silva on September 28, 2009, 02:16:23 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2009, 02:10:13 PM
Simple explanations from a simplistic mind.
The love of complex instruments is what created the Derivatives Market (and don't get me started on CFDs). I belive that often the simpler answers are best. As classifying those scams as such and jailing their proponents without giving them the chance to muddle the issue with their soft words.
Here's a simple equation for you, socialism = slavery.
Isn't painting with broad strokes fun? ;)
Quote from: Jaron on September 28, 2009, 02:38:59 PM
We had a pretty close number in 2008. :huh: Hell, even more of the dead came back to vote than usual.
ACORN ACORN ACORN
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on September 28, 2009, 02:45:05 PM
They still love their Stasi in the old East. That reminds me to add Goodbye Lenin to my Netflix queue.
The CDU still won the East. Just sayin.
Quote from: Syt on September 28, 2009, 02:38:09 PM
I'd think so. It's increasing feeling in Germany (and, for what it's worth in Austria), that politicians are aloft, disconnected from (and uninterested in) the common people. Kind of like an ivory tower of politics that's too abstract for the average Joe on the street to understand or care about. Which is why populist parties (both left and right) with more tangible goals or slogans in easily understandable language are attracting voters, even if they more often just say "what is wrong" than actually offer a solution.
This seems to be global :(
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 28, 2009, 02:50:42 PM
This seems to be global :(
I am just surprised this is a new phenomena.
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 28, 2009, 02:50:42 PM
This seems to be global :(
Add on top a feeling that "the big parties are all the (corrupt, self serving) same" and "whatever I vote, nothing will change, anyways".
Does anybody else get a little turned on too when they show a map of germany in black? :Embarrass:
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 28, 2009, 03:18:22 PM
Does anybody else get a little turned on too when they show a map of germany in black? :Embarrass:
Germany is now Black and Gold. The Steelers are running Germany.
Quote from: Syt on September 28, 2009, 03:10:46 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 28, 2009, 02:50:42 PM
This seems to be global :(
Add on top a feeling that "the big parties are all the (corrupt, self serving) same" and "whatever I vote, nothing will change, anyways".
Yep :(
Quote from: Martim Silva on September 28, 2009, 01:06:28 PM
And, infortunatelty, nobody noticed the portuguese elections, which took place in the same day. :(
Not true :D
As for the so-called Left Victory :lmfao:
Socrates is from the RIGHT WING of a centre left party, hardly different from the other main party, a centre right party which goes by the name of Social democratic party btw.
Do I need to remind you about the Tony Blair-like neo-liberal policies of Socrates ?
He's lost the absolute plurality he had and will have to negotiate with the PSD or, even worse, the CDS-PP. The BE will be nice for socially progressive questions as a diversion but that's all.
Every party but the PS increased the number of seats, even the PSD (doing worse would have been difficult though).
Calling the CDS-PP an extremis right is ridiculous. That goes for the PNR and their ilk with their 0.3 %.
On the other hand, you are somewhat coherent in your thoughts by calling the CDU/CSU extreme right wing since the CDS-PP is but a light version of it.
Some domestic issues like the TGV question wasn't handled that well though but both Lisbon-Porto and Lisbon-Madrid lines are needed (mixed freight-passenger) in order to be connected to Europe by rail for real.
As for another airport (this port won't come Free :D) for Lisbon it doesn't seem urgent to me. Lisbon has enough infra-structures unlike most parts of the country.
We'll have to wait the next local elections to see if this "extraordinary victory" is confirmed or not.
Executive summary:
Don't take Martim Silva's statements about (Portuguese) politics at face value. Verstanden Zanza? :) Same goes for Admiral Yi & Valmy (Socrates was seen as a model by the UMP and conservative newsmagazine Le Point).
As for the low voter turnout in Germany, it's pretty high by Portuguese standards unfortunately.
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2009, 03:23:13 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 28, 2009, 03:18:22 PM
Does anybody else get a little turned on too when they show a map of germany in black? :Embarrass:
Germany is now Black and Gold. The Steelers are running Germany.
Thanks for killing my erection. :(
I think to Martim anybody who opposes execution for all business owners and financiers is extreme right.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 28, 2009, 03:33:44 PM
Don't take Martim Silva's statements about (Portuguese) politics at face value. Verstanden Zanza? :) Same goes for Admiral Yi & Valmy (Socrates was seen as a model by the UMP and conservative newsmagazine Le Point).
Thanks for the heads up, but I already figured out that Silva puts the center-right somewhere around the Mensheviks.
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2009, 03:23:13 PM
Germany is now Black and Gold. The Steelers are running Germany.
Or Austria. :cool:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 28, 2009, 03:44:04 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 28, 2009, 03:33:44 PM
Don't take Martim Silva's statements about (Portuguese) politics at face value. Verstanden Zanza? :) Same goes for Admiral Yi & Valmy (Socrates was seen as a model by the UMP and conservative newsmagazine Le Point).
Thanks for the heads up, but I already figured out that Silva puts the center-right somewhere around the Mensheviks.
Wasn't sure with the Moldavia comment ;) There is a sizable number of Moldavian immigrants in Portugal now though... :tinfoil:
Quote from: Ed Anger on September 28, 2009, 03:18:22 PM
Does anybody else get a little turned on too when they show a map of germany in black? :Embarrass:
:) All it needs is some
feldgrau.
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 28, 2009, 03:25:06 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 28, 2009, 03:10:46 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 28, 2009, 02:50:42 PM
This seems to be global :(
Add on top a feeling that "the big parties are all the (corrupt, self serving) same" and "whatever I vote, nothing will change, anyways".
Yep :(
I'm surprised that the trend has taken so long to hit Germany. A "pox on both your houses" mood has been around in Britain since the early Nineties at the latest, and I wouldn't be surprised if it could be traced back to the Seventies.
Quote from: Agelastus on September 28, 2009, 05:56:36 PM
I'm surprised that the trend has taken so long to hit Germany. A "pox on both your houses" mood has been around in Britain since the early Nineties at the latest, and I wouldn't be surprised if it could be traced back to the Seventies.
I don't think that's the case. After Black Wednesday people were unenthusiastically going to vote for Labour, but by the time Tony started leading there was genuine, widespread enthusiasm. Briefly New Labour was nothing less than the political wing of the British people.
I think it's quite a recent trend in British politics.
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 28, 2009, 09:19:45 PM
I don't think that's the case. After Black Wednesday people were unenthusiastically going to vote for Labour, but by the time Tony started leading there was genuine, widespread enthusiasm. Briefly New Labour was nothing less than the political wing of the British people.
I think it's quite a recent trend in British politics.
And yet, even with that, the 1997 election was the third lowest turnout of voters since World War II. Not as dramatic a decline as the 2001 and 2005 elections (the two lowest) but still an interesting datum. That's one reason that I'd trace the feeling back to the early 1990s. The 1992 election actually had the highest turnout since the election of February 1974, another moment of crisis and indecision about the future of the country.
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 28, 2009, 09:19:45 PM
Briefly New Labour was nothing less than the political wing of the British people.
Please tell me you're kidding.
Quote from: Barrister on September 28, 2009, 09:35:15 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 28, 2009, 09:19:45 PM
Briefly New Labour was nothing less than the political wing of the British people.
Please tell me you're kidding.
Remember, this is filtered through his own perceptions.
Quote from: Agelastus on September 28, 2009, 09:34:05 PM
And yet, even with that, the 1997 election was the third lowest turnout of voters since World War II. Not as dramatic a decline as the 2001 and 2005 elections (the two lowest) but still an interesting datum. That's one reason that I'd trace the feeling back to the early 1990s. The 1992 election actually had the highest turnout since the election of February 1974, another moment of crisis and indecision about the future of the country.
I don't think it's terribly interesting. More people vote during elections that are perceived as close than do when a landslide's expected - 1997's roughly where 1945, 1983, 1970 and 1974 (Oct) are. Those elections were either seen as landslide-likely, a foregone conclusion (though it led to the wrong conclusion), or tiresome.
What do you think happened in the 80s that caused this shift in the early 90s then? I mean do you think it's the collapse of ideology and the rise of managerial politics, or something else - downfall of class solidarity?
Quote from: Barrister on September 28, 2009, 09:35:15 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 28, 2009, 09:19:45 PM
Briefly New Labour was nothing less than the political wing of the British people.
Please tell me you're kidding.
It's a Blair quote. In one of his rhetorical flourishes in the 90s he said the goal of New Labour was to be 'nothing less than the political wing of the British people as a whole'. I think the party came pretty bloody close to it between his election as leader and the 97 election. His approval rating was in the 70s, in polls Labour got over 50% and the Lib Dems did well too - at this point Blair was speculating that he'd like a Lib-Lab coalition. And there was a genuine enthusiasm and hope tied up in Blair. I think that's the big difference with Cameron is he doesn't have the same excitement around him.
I mean the country, as a whole, has to be pretty supportive for a political leader to get away with hailing their victory with the words 'a new day has dawned, has it not?' I love the cod Biblical sound of that.
Remember, everyone, that jealousy is Matrim's virtue. He lives in crushing poverty, and his only respite has been bankrolled by our peoples. He won't be satisfied until everyone lives under the crushing poverty that only left-wing policies can provide.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 28, 2009, 03:33:44 PM
Some domestic issues like the TGV question wasn't handled that well though but both Lisbon-Porto and Lisbon-Madrid lines are needed (mixed freight-passenger) in order to be connected to Europe by rail for real.
Well, we Spaniards tilted between 'mildly amused' and 'puzzled' to hear that TGVs were designed exclusively for Spain's benefit and to make Portugal an Spanish province... I mean, come on, those trains will allow Spanish businesses easier access to Portugal, but Portuguese businesses will get easier access to all of Europe!
Actually we are quite divided about Portugal. A third of us think a united Iberian peninsula would be cool (we have to check with the French if the Hall of Mirrors is available, tough), another third think Portuguese would only add their problems to ours, and the rest are undecided.
Quote from: Alatriste on September 29, 2009, 01:12:53 AMA third of us think a united Iberian peninsula would be cool ...
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwpcontent.answers.com%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Ff%2Ffa%2FIberian_Peninsula_in_125.svg%2F330px-Iberian_Peninsula_in_125.svg.png&hash=100ce1adf39cd93f5299afef22bd588b2c5be28b)
QuoteIn Germany's case, it suffered from 16 years under the extreme right (CDU, under Kohl, together with FPD), then the right (SPD, Schröder) and then an extreme right/right-wing CDU/SPD grand coalition. They ALL worked under the banner of "Free Market" and worshipped "Deregulation".
What are you smoking and can I have some?
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 28, 2009, 03:25:06 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 28, 2009, 03:10:46 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on September 28, 2009, 02:50:42 PM
This seems to be global :(
Add on top a feeling that "the big parties are all the (corrupt, self serving) same" and "whatever I vote, nothing will change, anyways".
Yep :(
Well, there's two basic kinds of election campaigns you can run:
- centered around people
- centered around polarizing topics
The first option only works well when you have a charismatic personality - Kohl, or before that Schmidt and Brandt.
The second works if you have a major topic where you strongly distinguish yourself from the opponents.
Unfortunately, the recent campaigns in Germany were increasingly lacking in either.
Quote from: citizen k on September 29, 2009, 01:20:23 AM
Quote from: Alatriste on September 29, 2009, 01:12:53 AMA third of us think a united Iberian peninsula would be cool ...
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwpcontent.answers.com%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Ff%2Ffa%2FIberian_Peninsula_in_125.svg%2F330px-Iberian_Peninsula_in_125.svg.png&hash=100ce1adf39cd93f5299afef22bd588b2c5be28b)
Is that map correct around the Seville area (bottom left corner of Spain)? It was underwater in Roman times? :huh:
In general the sea was higher in Roman times (see Thermopylae, or Pompeia, or Ostia, 3 kilometers from the sea today) and the Guadalquivir river is known for its abundant sediments, but I think this map exaggerates the effect many kilometers. Hispalis would have been on the coast, or close to it!
Quote from: Alatriste on September 29, 2009, 04:20:55 AM
In general the sea was higher in Roman times (see Thermopylae, or Pompeia, or Ostia, 3 kilometers from the sea today) and the Guadalquivir river is known for its abundant sediments, but I think this map exaggerates the effect many kilometers. Hispalis would have been on the coast, or close to it!
Europe has been literally rebounding from the ice age for thousands of years now.
Quote from: Valmy on September 28, 2009, 02:33:05 PMOf course here in the USA we could only dream of someday having 70.8 % turnout.
In the 1970s we had turnouts in excess of 90%. ;) 70% is by far the lowest yet.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 28, 2009, 03:33:44 PM
As for the so-called Left Victory :lmfao:
Socrates is from the RIGHT WING of a centre left party, hardly different from the other main party, a centre right party which goes by the name of Social democratic party btw.
Do I need to remind you about the Tony Blair-like neo-liberal policies of Socrates?
The portuguese Socialist Party is a member of the International Socialist and seats with the European Socialist Parties in the European Parliament. We consider it center left because, as you might know, for us Socialism IS the center of the political spectrum.
Socrates did have some non-socialist policies (which earned him intense criticism from his own party) and are the main reason why he lost ground - the electorate didn't like his early love affair with Liberal ideas - and, then again, he himself recanted his ideas this year when the utter failure of Liberal policies became appearent, and proclaimed in Parliament he was now for a stronger and more social State.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança
He's lost the absolute plurality he had and will have to negotiate with the PSD or, even worse, the CDS-PP.
While Socrates kept doors open, many members of the PS (like Ana Gomes, Ferro Rodrigues or Manuel Alegre) have already voiced total disagreement with an understanding with CDS, as it is "against nature", since that party is the "ideological opposite" of the PS.
http://dn.sapo.pt/inicio/portugal/interior.aspx?content_id=1375306
Quote from: Duque de Bragança
Every party but the PS increased the number of seats, even the PSD (doing worse would have been difficult though).
The PSD actually had basically the same votes (1,646 million vs 1,639 million) than it had in 2005. It merely increased its seats due to the Hondt method of distributing MPs.
http://www.legislativas2009.mj.pt/
Quote from: Duque de Bragança
Calling the CDS-PP an extremis right is ridiculous. That goes for the PNR and their ilk with their 0.3 %.
The Social Democrats are right-wing. The CDS-PP keeps screaming it's to the right of them. Where does that put it? Guess you missed its leader diatribes against immigration:
http://tv1.rtp.pt/noticias/?article=65722&visual=3&layout=10
http://www.tvi24.iol.pt/politica/paulo-portas-emprego-politica-vistos-imigrantes-tvi24/1051115-4072.html
As for the PNR, it is a meaningless Fascist party. That said, it is fun to note that the Fascist leader regretted losing votes to the CDS-PP, which is ideologically very close to it:
http://dn.sapo.pt/inicio/portugal/interior.aspx?content_id=1374294
As for the Socialist victory, the Financial Times (which I guess is not blessed with Duque de Braganças' perceptions on portuguese politics) had this to say:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3814ec82-ac62-11de-a754-00144feabdc0.html
Portuguese companies fear radical coalitionPortuguese business leaders on Monday called on José Sócrates, the prime minister, to rule out an alliance with the radical left after his centre-left Socialists lost their overall majority in Sunday's general election.
(...)
The Bloco de Esquerdo (Left Bloc), an alliance of former Maoists and Trotskyites who want to pull Portugal out of Nato, nationalise energy companies and increase taxes on the rich, doubled their number of deputies in the 230-seat parliament to 16.
The hard-line Communists won 15 seats, one more than before, giving the left-of-centre parties a comfortable majority (...). :D
As for Germany, I guess the Germans will keep having to see Merkel give lavish birthday parties to the bankers and their buddies... with taxpayers' money:
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,4596587,00.html
Deutsche Bank boss throws party, Merkel foots the bill
In April 2008, Deutsche Bank chief Josef Ackermann invited about 30 guests from home and abroad to the German chancellor's office where he hosted a belated dinner to celebrate his 60th birthday in February.
In a report by the German ARD public television on Monday, Ackermann said Merkel had wanted to do him a favor and had asked him to invite some of his friends over to a party at the chancellery.
"I have to say it was a wonderful evening," the Deutsche Bank chief said in the report.
But it turns out the event was paid entirely out of the chancellor's budget (...)I guess she is really going to go all out now. <_<
Quote from: Martim Silva on September 29, 2009, 04:15:52 PM
The portuguese Socialist Party is a member of the International Socialist and seats with the European Socialist Parties in the European Parliament. We consider it center left because, as you might know, for us Socialism IS the center of the political spectrum.
This is true but meaningless as I said Socrates in actions and words is a member of that PS right wing.
Need I you to remind you that the PS was the party which put an end to the Kolkhoze experiment in Alentejo, something the centre-right nor the right could do back then?
Quote
Socrates did have some non-socialist policies (which earned him intense criticism from his own party) and are the main reason why he lost ground - the electorate didn't like his early love affair with Liberal ideas - and, then again, he himself recanted his ideas this year when the utter failure of Liberal policies became appearent, and proclaimed in Parliament he was now for a stronger and more social State.
Some? There wasn't anything left. As to the apparent reversal (minimal wage rise), well it was election year ;)
Quote
While Socrates kept doors open, many members of the PS (like Ana Gomes, Ferro Rodrigues or Manuel Alegre) have already voiced total disagreement with an understanding with CDS, as it is "against nature", since that party is the "ideological opposite" of the PS.
http://dn.sapo.pt/inicio/portugal/interior.aspx?content_id=1375306
I would hope so for the sake of both parties and electorates.
Quote
The PSD actually had basically the same votes (1,646 million vs 1,639 million) than it had in 2005. It merely increased its seats due to the Hondt method of distributing MPs.
http://www.legislativas2009.mj.pt/
Of course, it was a disappointment, but the PS lost both much more votes and seats.
Btw, we are still waiting for the results of the Portuguese abroad always screwed by the Left's humanitarian views, pro-illegal immigration but anti-Portuguese abroad... I don't think the PS benefit a lot from these 4 seats.
Quote
The Social Democrats are right-wing. The CDS-PP keeps screaming it's to the right of them. Where does that put it? Guess you missed its leader diatribes against immigration:
http://tv1.rtp.pt/noticias/?article=65722&visual=3&layout=10
http://www.tvi24.iol.pt/politica/paulo-portas-emprego-politica-vistos-imigrantes-tvi24/1051115-4072.html
That's where we disagree, with your Leftist-Portuguese (or even worse are you a Lisboete of that kind ?:D) viewpoint.
In European scale, PSD is barely centre-right. Need I to remind you they call themselves social-democrats. Might be in part due to the PREC leftist intellectual terrorism in 74-75 but still it's not a real-right wing nor conservative party.
As for anti-immigration stances, that does not make it extreme right wing. Do I need to remind you about Karl Marx theories about the Reserve Army used by bosses to weight on the wages. i.e immigrants tools of the bourgeoisie. I guess he's Extreme right wing too :D
Many parties and unions, even communist ones were famous for this aspect.
Most respectable socialist parties are not in favour of unlimited immigration in Europe as well.
Quote
As for the PNR, it is a meaningless Fascist party. That said, it is fun to note that the Fascist leader regretted losing votes to the CDS-PP, which is ideologically very close to it:
http://dn.sapo.pt/inicio/portugal/interior.aspx?content_id=1374294
It's meaningless correct, that's why it tries to claim some credit for the CDS-PP. A real extremist right wing party wouldn't be pro Turkey EU like the CDS-PP. Hell, even a real democrat-christian one like the CDU/CSU would be against.
Guess he's a just pinko after all... :D
Quote
As for the Socialist victory, the Financial Times (which I guess is not blessed with Duque de Braganças' perceptions on portuguese politics) had this to say:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3814ec82-ac62-11de-a754-00144feabdc0.html
Portuguese companies fear radical coalition
Portuguese business leaders on Monday called on José Sócrates, the prime minister, to rule out an alliance with the radical left after his centre-left Socialists lost their overall majority in Sunday's general election.
(...)
The Bloco de Esquerdo (Left Bloc), an alliance of former Maoists and Trotskyites who want to pull Portugal out of Nato, nationalise energy companies and increase taxes on the rich, doubled their number of deputies in the 230-seat parliament to 16.
The hard-line Communists won 15 seats, one more than before, giving the left-of-centre parties a comfortable majority (...).
:D
In Cauda Venenum ;)
Read your own article:
"However, the antagonism between the parties and Mr Sócrates' reluctance to damage his business-friendly credentials make any formal alliance unlikely."
He will use the leftists for whatever socially progressive questions he needs for diversions and enter in quid pro quos economy wise with the PSD.
Quote
As for Germany, I guess the Germans will keep having to see Merkel give lavish birthday parties to the bankers and their buddies... with taxpayers' money:
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,4596587,00.html
Deutsche Bank boss throws party, Merkel foots the bill
In April 2008, Deutsche Bank chief Josef Ackermann invited about 30 guests from home and abroad to the German chancellor's office where he hosted a belated dinner to celebrate his 60th birthday in February.
In a report by the German ARD public television on Monday, Ackermann said Merkel had wanted to do him a favor and had asked him to invite some of his friends over to a party at the chancellery.
"I have to say it was a wonderful evening," the Deutsche Bank chief said in the report.
But it turns out the event was paid entirely out of the chancellor's budget (...)
I guess she is really going to go all out now. <_<
I'll leave that part to the Germans. Doesn't strike me as a good idea if you ask me though.
Huzzah, apparently Gestapo-Wolle (Schäuble) leaves the interior and becomes Minister of Economics. First good news about about the coming government as that leaves some hope a tiny chance we'll get someone less idiotic as Minister of the Interior for a change.
Quote from: syk on October 23, 2009, 05:06:12 AM
Huzzah, apparently Gestapo-Wolle (Schäuble) leaves the interior and becomes Minister of Economics. First good news about about the coming government as that leaves some hope a tiny chance we'll get someone less idiotic as Minister of the Interior for a change.
Gay people make great Ministers of the Interior.
Future health minister Philipp Rösler:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.derstandard.at%2F2009%2F10%2F23%2F1256259688062.jpg&hash=e031ef7be3ebf4fc210a4cdd657814d1b970a135)
Oddly, I only ever met one other Philipp, he was half-Japanese, when I was at school.
Clearly, the tripartite pact has borne fruit.
German magazine Titanic:
"Expectation of constructive talks: The new health minister on his way to the Association of Medical doctors"
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.titanic-magazin.de%2Fuploads%2Fpics%2F1102-roesler_01.jpg&hash=1686e050539811b5e9a5fff437be6476a7bca229)
:XD: