http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8273396.stm
So, last living Ottoman is gone. So you can't be: Ottoman Empire. You can only be: Republic of Turkey.
Quote'Last Ottoman' dies in Istanbul
By Roger Hardy
Middle East analyst
Ertugrul Osman - the would-be sultan known in Turkey as the "last Ottoman" - has died in Istanbul at the age of 97.
Osman would have been sultan of the Ottoman Empire had Turkey's modern republic not been created in the 1920s.
As the last surviving grandson of Sultan Abdul-Hamid II, he would have been known as his Imperial Highness Prince Shehzade Ertugrul Osman Effendi.
Born in Istanbul in 1912, Osman spent most of his years living modestly in New York.
No political ambition
He was a 12-year-old at school in Vienna when he heard the news that his family was being expelled by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, the soldier who founded the modern Turkish republic out of the ashes of the old empire.
Osman eventually settled in New York, where for more than 60 years he lived in a flat above a restaurant.
Always insisting he had no political ambition, he only returned to Turkey in the early 1990s at the invitation of the government.
During the visit, he went to Dolmabahce - the palace by the Bosphorus where he had played as a child.
Characteristically, he joined a tour group in order to avoid any red-carpet treatment.
Ertugrul Osman is survived by his wife, Zeynep, a relative of the last king of Afghanistan.
Was he: sick man of America?
There are no scion from cadet branches of the House of Osman alive today, either? Seems unlikely. :huh:
Who cares?
I lol at all that ex-royalty who are called royals by the masses. If the family doesn't have a throne you are ex-royalty, ie not worth shit.
Quote from: Drakken on September 24, 2009, 12:49:33 PM
There are no scion from cadet branches of the House of Osman alive today, either? Seems unlikely. :huh:
Indeed.
But meh, you know journalists, sensationalism FTW.
One good thing I notice- this is kept in the 'Europe' as opposed to 'Middle East' section of the news. Take that continental Turkophobes!
Quote from: The Brain on September 24, 2009, 12:51:55 PM
Who cares?
I lol at all that ex-royalty who are called royals by the masses. If the family doesn't have a throne you are ex-royalty, ie not worth shit.
But unless the ex-royalty is some former Swedish-style impotent bicycle monarchy or a piss-poor sheepherders' country, they are usually a shitload richer than you and me, and thus better. :yes:
Quote from: Tyr on September 24, 2009, 12:52:24 PM
Quote from: Drakken on September 24, 2009, 12:49:33 PM
There are no scion from cadet branches of the House of Osman alive today, either? Seems unlikely. :huh:
Indeed.
But meh, you know journalists, sensationalism FTW.
One good thing I notice- this is kept in the 'Europe' as opposed to 'Middle East' section of the news. Take that continental Turkophobes!
Exactly. And the house of Osman was renowned to pass power to Sultans' brothers as well, especially when they adopted succession by seniority by the 18th century to prevent anymore fratricide in the Kefes, as it had become totally unproductive to massacre potential heirs. So even the concept of "main line" is totally unknown to Ottoman Empire: as long as you descended from Osman, you were of the House.
For instance, the main Romanov line got exterminated through and through (except for those still fantasizing about that Polish hobo Anna Anderson), and no one would dare pretend that the Romanov dynasty is now extinguished, despite what the Russian Commies would like to believe.
And this is covered by their "Middle East Correspondent". Too bad, Tyr. :lmfao:
Does this give the US any claims on Turkish provinces? :shifty:
Quotea relative of the latest king of Afghanistan
Fixed :)
Was just gonna post this. :mad:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 24, 2009, 01:36:30 PM
Was just gonna post this. :mad:
Scooped again!? You're fired, Jimmy! Aw gee, Mr. White :weep:
Quote from: Caliga on September 24, 2009, 01:54:07 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 24, 2009, 01:36:30 PM
Was just gonna post this. :mad:
Scooped again!? You're fired, Jimmy! Aw gee, Mr. White :weep:
he hasn't even posted the water on teh moon story either. :mad:
I remember this guy; there was a big profile on him in the Times 5 years or so ago. He lived in a rent-controlled walkup apartment in a brownstone in the east 70s. As I recall, he was having some issues with his landlord (not surprsing; he had occupied the apartment for 50-60 years and was paying virtually no rent). very well-mannered, modest sort of guy.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 24, 2009, 02:08:53 PM
I remember this guy; there was a big profile on him in the Times 5 years or so ago. He lived in a rent-controlled walkup apartment in a brownstone in the east 70s. As I recall, he was having some issues with his landlord (not surprsing; he had occupied the apartment for 50-60 years and was paying virtually no rent). very well-mannered, modest sort of guy.
I remember that profile. :)
Quote from: Drakken on September 24, 2009, 12:49:33 PM
There are no scion from cadet branches of the House of Osman alive today, either? Seems unlikely. :huh:
There's no cadets. TheSultans killed all their brothers. ;)
Quote from: Caliga on September 24, 2009, 02:42:14 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 24, 2009, 02:08:53 PM
I remember this guy; there was a big profile on him in the Times 5 years or so ago. He lived in a rent-controlled walkup apartment in a brownstone in the east 70s. As I recall, he was having some issues with his landlord (not surprsing; he had occupied the apartment for 50-60 years and was paying virtually no rent). very well-mannered, modest sort of guy.
I remember that profile. :)
Yeah. I think we had a thread on that.
I may have been the one that started it, now that I think about it. :huh:
we're getting old. we are recycling threads we can't remember.
Weird thing:
First Roman ruler - Romulus
Last Roman ruler - Romulus
First Roman emperor - Augustus
Last Roman Emperor - Augustus
First Eastern Empire Emperor - Constantine
Last Eastern Empire Emperor - Constantine
First Ottoman - Ertugrul
Last Ottoman - Ertugrul
I love Ataturk :mmm:
He obviously is not the last Ottoman or even the last pretender. I think he may be the last who was actually alive at the time the dynasty was still ruling.
Throw the gates of Constantinople open!
Quote from: saskganesh on September 24, 2009, 03:22:01 PM
Quote from: Drakken on September 24, 2009, 12:49:33 PM
There are no scion from cadet branches of the House of Osman alive today, either? Seems unlikely. :huh:
There's no cadets. TheSultans killed all their brothers. ;)
As posted above, the Ottomans changed to a "seniority" system rather than "kill all your kin". This may not have been a good idea - at least in the "kill all your kin" days you had a good chance of a competent ruler, in the "seniority" days you ended up with a chain of rulers who in this day and age could legitimately apply for their pensions.
Apparently, this is the current line of Ottoman succession, from 1 to 25:
HIH Prince Şehzade Dündar Aliosman Efendi (b. 1930) (descendant of Abdul Hamid II)
HIH Prince Şehzade Harun Osmanoğlu Efendi (b. 1932) (descendant of Abdul Hamid II)
HIH Prince Şehzade Cengiz Nazim Efendi (b. 1939) (descendant of Mehmed V)
HIH Prince Şehzade Osman Selaheddin Osmanoğlu Efendi (b. 1940) (descendant of Murad V through Ahmed IV and Ali I)
HIH Prince Şehzade Ömer Abdülmecid Osmanoğlu Efendi (b. 1941) (descendant of Mehmed V)
HIH Prince Şehzade Mehmed Selim Orhan Efendi (b. 1943) (descendant of Abdul Hamid II through Mehmed VII)
HIH Prince Şehzade Hasan Orhan Efendi (b. 1946) (descendant of Mehmed V)
HIH Prince Şehzade Mehmed Ziyaeddin Efendi (b. 1947) (descendant of Mehmed V)
HIH Prince Şehzade Roland Selim Kadir Efendi (b. 1949) (descendant of Abdul Hamid II)
HIH Prince Şehzade Selim Djem Efendi (b. 1955) (descendant of Abdülmecid I)
HIH Prince Şehzade Orhan İbrahim Suleiman Saadeddin Efendi (b. 1959) (descendant of Abdülaziz I)
HIH Prince Şehzade Orhan Osmanoğlu Efendi (b. 1963) (descendant of Abdul Hamid II)
HIH Prince Şehzade Eric Mehmed Ziyaeddin Nazim Efendi (b. 1966) (descendant of Mehmed V)
HIH Prince Şehzade Orhan Murad Osmanoğlu Efendi (b. 1972) (descendant of Murad V through Ahmed IV and Ali I)
HIH Prince Şehzade Mahmud Francis Osmanoğlu Efendi (b. 1975) (descendant of Mehmed V)
HIH Prince Şehzade René Osman Abdul Kadir Efendi (b. 1975) (descendant of Abdul Hamid II)
HIH Prince Şehzade Daniel Adrian Hamid Kadir Efendi (b. 1977) (descendant of Abdul Hamid II)
HIH Prince Şehzade Abdulhamid Kayıhan Osmanoğlu Efendi (b. 1979) (descendant of Abdul Hamid II)
HIH Prince Şehzade Selim Süleyman Osmanoğlu Efendi (b. 1979) (descendant of Murad V through Ahmed IV and Ali I)
HIH Prince Şehzade Nazım Osmanoğlu Efendi (b. 1985) (descendant of Mehmed V)
HIH Prince Şehzade Yavuz Selim Osmanoğlu Efendi (b. 1989) (descendant of Abdul Hamid II)
HIH Prince Şehzade Turan Cem Osmanoğlu Efendi (b. 2004) (descendant of Murad V through Ahmed IV and Ali I)
HIH Prince Şehzade Tamer Nihad Osmanoğlu Efendi (b. 2006) (descendant of Murad V through Ahmed IV and Ali I)
HIH Prince Şehzade Harun Osmanoğlu Efendi (b. 2007) (descendant of Abdul Hamid II)
HIH Prince Şehzade Batu Bayezid Osmanoğlu Efendi (b. 2008) (descendant of Murad V through Ahmed IV and Ali I)
No prisoners!
Quote from: FunkMonk on September 24, 2009, 05:42:07 PM
No prisoners!
Please change your avatar - I keep thinking you are Grumbler... :Embarrass:
Quote from: Agelastus on September 24, 2009, 05:50:35 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on September 24, 2009, 05:42:07 PM
No prisoners!
Please change your avatar - I keep thinking you are Grumbler... :Embarrass:
Grumbler was the one who did the copying.
Quote from: katmai on September 24, 2009, 05:59:57 PM
Quote from: Agelastus on September 24, 2009, 05:50:35 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on September 24, 2009, 05:42:07 PM
No prisoners!
Please change your avatar - I keep thinking you are Grumbler... :Embarrass:
Grumbler was the one who did the copying.
Must have missed it during one of my long absences.
Funkmunk marched off to war (Hurrah, Hurrah), and grumbler changed it as an homage.
Quote from: Agelastus on September 24, 2009, 05:50:35 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on September 24, 2009, 05:42:07 PM
No prisoners!
Please change your avatar - I keep thinking you are Grumbler... :Embarrass:
Grumbler uses his avatar in honor of Funkie when he's overseas.
Thanks for the explanation guys.